XxSabrinaxX, I edited the second post to answer an argument I skipped and flesh out some other arguments I made.

XxSabrinaxX:

Smh
Good night, TATIME. I've already shown you the facts via the links, the rest is left to you.

Social Media versus Facts! Hmmmmmmmmmm thanks Sabrina.

Ihedinobi3:

Should I assume that you could not demonstrate the contradiction you alleged?

Its common sense. Moreover I've explained it over and over in other threads.

Ihedinobi3:
Should I also assume that you are satisfied with my answer to your question assuming that free will were possible?

If freewill were possible, yes.

Ihedinobi3:
Regarding your objection, I just checked and saw that you did respond to my explanation on your other thread. I did not realize that you did then. Your response however appeared to not account at all for my argument, so let me try again and I hope that your response will be clearer about what your objection actually is.

First off, a free will is only an ability to choose whether to submit to God's Authority or not. Even animals choose whether to play or sleep or mate with this other animal or that other and eat the cat's treats or the dog food in the bowl. Only angels and men make decisions about God's Authority over them. That is what free will is about.

Second, there are only two possible choices here: submit to God or rebel against Him. These choices are the actual true meanings of good and evil. Moral good is submission to God's Authority. Moral evil is rebellion against God.

Third, a free will makes its possessor like God. It makes them able to define their own selves. This point is critical in order to answer your objections, so please pay attention to how it plays out in the next point.

Fourth, God's Will is the best way to define God since God is what He decides to be and will be only what He decides to be. There are no mitigating factors upon His Will. He is Who He is and He does exactly what He wants to do. Creature free will allows a creature to decide what to be just like God does. One crucial difference, however, is that while God's Existence is completely self-driven, creatures can only exist if God makes them. Thus, their free will can only function if He empowers it to function.

Here is what all these add up to:

It is impossible for any creature to make any choice at all unless God actually makes it possible. It is important to understand that just like without electricity electrical devices would never work, without God's Enabling, creation would not work at all. So...

Because God knows all things, He knows exactly what each moral creature would want in their heart of hearts when they come into existence. But these desires would be inexpressible unless He actually empowered them, that is, He must decree them for them to ever materialize. That is where His Omnipotence comes into play. Because He empowers all things, that is, because He makes all things possible, He alone can decree the choices that He alone knew that each moral creature would want to make so that those choices would be actually made.

Thus, by His Decree, each moral choice was made possible.

In other words, because creatures are not self-existing so that they are powerless to even exist much less determine who they want to be relative to God, their free will choices can only be made by them if God decrees those choices Himself. So, instead of God's Omnipotence and Omniscience preventing free will, they actually enable it. You cannot make a choice at all unless God makes you able to do so. That is how free will works. It is not like God's Own Will which is self-empowered.

As I understand it, Determinism (which I take to be Causal Determinism) posits that all activity in the universe is both (i) the effect of all prior activity, and (ii) the only activity that can occur given the prior activity. That is what is meant by saying that everything is “determined” — it is the inexorable consequence of activity that preceded it. In a deterministic universe, everything that has ever occurred, is occurring, and will occur since the universe came into existence (however that might have occurred) can only occur exactly as it has occurred, is occurring, or will occur, and cannot possibly occur in any different manner. This mandated activity necessarily includes all human action, including all human cognition.
As I understand the notion of Free Will, it posits that a human being, when presented with more than one course of action, has the freedom or agency to choose between or among the alternatives, and that the state of affairs that exists in the universe immediately prior to the putative exercise of that freedom of choice does not eliminate all but one option and compel the selection of only one of the available options.
Based on the foregoing, if Determinism is true, human beings lack the ability to think in a manner that is not 100% caused by prior activity that is outside of their control, and thereby lack Free Will. By the same token, if human beings have Free-Will, they are capable of thinking in a manner that is not 100% caused by prior activity that is outside of their control, which rules out Determinism.
As I understand the two concepts, Determinism and Free Will are irreconcilably incompatible. Hence, I still fail to understand how humans can be punished by God for actions they have no control over.

Ihedinobi3:
I am splitting this number up for an important reason: the above is a debate that will be resolved by two things: historical evidence and linguistic evidence. Your other statements can be resolved just by examining common translations of the Bible.

So, let me ask you: do you know the history here well? What are your sources? Do you know or read Ancient Greek well? Or else do you have some way of being sure of the translations we are going to examine?

I read books and I do my research.

Ihedinobi3:
This one is rather weird. It is hardly difficult to see that the Bible teaches that the Lord Jesus came to make peace between human rebels and God but it also clear that that very act forces a separation between people so that those who make peace with God through Him find themselves having to deal with unmistakable hostility from those who do not.

Are you admitting that Jesus is responsible for this discord? Besides, why can't an allpowerful being effectively enforce peace if he wanted to?

Ihedinobi3:
Could you provide your sources and any other evidence you have for these claims?

Also, how do your claims explain the following?

[11] A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.
[12] But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
[13] For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
[14] And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
1 Timothy 2:11‭-‬14 NASB

I remember vaguely reading articles that the letters to the Corinthians might be "sewn together" from multiple letters and ultimately re-written, but I don't remember the arguments well. I'll keep trying to find those articles.
However, my point still stands on the fact that Paul was an advocate for equality in the church.
https://margmowczko.com/equality-in-pauls-letters/

And as for those claims, it'd be important to know that Paul's authorship of the pastoral epistles (1st Timothy, 2nd Timothy, Titus) isn't really aunthetic. I suggest reading this wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Pauline_epistles
There's a high possibility he didn't write those passages you brought up.

Ihedinobi3:
Just, loving, merciful and caring are all actually very discriminatory words. If you are loving toward your child, you won't be very loving toward the dog attacking him. If you want to be just, you would be very unpleasant to an offender. If you are merciful, you would also be just to protect those that you have mercy on. If you care for your family, you will protect them against a gang trying to hurt them. Do you disagree?

I suppose you're making an analogy here between mankind and Satan. But didn't God create Satan himself?

Ihedinobi3:
Regarding inbreeding, could you demonstrate the contradiction there?

If God is supposedly against inbreeding in the bible, why did he indirectly cause it after the Noah Ark incident?

Ihedinobi3:
Regarding Job, could you demonstrate how God was trying to win a bet there rather than testing a moral creature to demonstrate what his true heart was to men and angels? Also, demonstrate the contradiction between God's test of moral creatures to allow them make their choices about Him and His Love, Mercy, Justice and Compassion.

Can YOU demonstrate that God and Satan weren't basically betting on Job abandoning his faith? Also I've said enough about the concepts of freewill and determinism. You should know where I'm coming from by now

Ihedinobi3:
I completely agree, it doesn't. Now, demonstrate where the Bible teaches the above.

I just summarized God's plan to the best of my knowledge. Stop asking me to demonstrate. Address my statements and prove them wrong.


I'll rebut the rest later so don't respond yet. I have places to be.

TATIME:
Social Media versus Facts! Hmmmmmmmmmm thanks Sabrina.

I'm going to pretend you didn't just call the bible "facts"

XxSabrinaxX:

I'm going to pretend you didn't just call the bible "facts"

It's not easy trying to convince innocent people about facts of issues beyond their sight!
During the time of Emperor Tiberius of Rome,Jesus (a Nazarene) was accused,arrested,charged, found guilty and executed for speaking against the Temple of God in Jerusalem, it was the Roman governor Pontius Pilate who signed Jesus' death warrant. So to the innocent citizens of Judaea and beyond, Jesus was a criminal! But His disciples penned down the FACTS of the matter and many of them were assassinated for trying to awaken a buried issue. Act 5:28,29
"In 1998 M.K.O Abiola died of cardiac arrest" confirmed by the best doctors from all around the world, attested to by the then SECRETary of United Nations Mr Kofi Anna.
But during Oputa panel organized by ex President Chief Olusegun Obasanjo, there came the FACTS that politicians globally come to terms that for Nigeria to continue as a nation, both Sanni Abacha and Moshood Abiola must die! And so it goes on and on.
Please we're Christians and we know how easy it is for politicians to bury FACTS from innocent citizens.

TATIME:
It's not easy trying to convince innocent people about facts of issues beyond their sight!
During the time of Emperor Tiberius of Rome,Jesus (a Nazarene) was accused,arrested,charged, found guilty and executed for speaking against the Temple of God in Jerusalem, it was the Roman governor Pontius Pilate who signed Jesus' death warrant. So to the innocent citizens of Judaea and beyond, Jesus was a criminal! But His disciples penned down the FACTS of the matter and many of them were assassinated for trying to awaken a buried issue. Act 5:28,29
"In 1998 M.K.O Abiola died of cardiac arrest" confirmed by the best doctors from all around the world, attested to by the then SECRETary of United Nations Mr Kofi Anna.
But during Oputa panel organized by ex President Chief Olusegun Obasanjo, there came the FACTS that politicians globally come to terms that for Nigeria to continue as a nation, both Sanni Abacha and Moshood Abiola must die! And so it goes on and on.
Please we're Christians and we know how easy it is for politicians to bury FACTS from innocent citizens.

Evidently, science cannot prove the supernatural but somehow you can. Congratulations, you're a deluded clown

HellVictorinho:

What do you think about my rap?
You can also check out my rap battle with Raptex in a thread named "Challenge" in the rap category.
I took him to the cleaners.
I have other lines in the threads named "Flow For Rank" and "Lines you can never forget".
I have actually written 15 rap songs but I don't know when I'm ever gonna record them.
But I know the niggaz on the streetz are usually better than they who exist in some people's dreams.

Obviously I can't really judge the flow but the lyrics are creative. Do you have a mixtape?

XxSabrinaxX:

Obviously I can't really judge the flow but the lyrics are creative. Do you have a mixtape?

Hell has no mixtapes.
But he has a "studio in his head".

XxSabrinaxX:

Thank you. Which God is it then? What's your convincing, verifiable evidence that YAHWEH and not ALLAH created the universe?
No christian on nairaland has given me a straightforward answer to the above. Do you know why? IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO KNOW!
Unless you want to prove me wrong
Edit: You stated in the bolded that you can't empirically prove the supernatural. So how do you know that Yahweh, Angels, Demons, Heaven and Hell exist? I'm being as open minded as I possibly can but I always call out factual errors when I see them.

No different God created the world. False religion which the bible said its controller is the Devil makes the account of the Universal Sovereign appear different. Yahweh is the creator of Heaven and Earth.

Any other story can be deduced from what those stories paint as inspired expressions. From there writings one can know which one is true.

raptex:
Where is HardMirror

Where is he?

XxSabrinaxX:

Evidently, science cannot prove the supernatural but somehow you can. Congratulations, you're a deluded clown

Thanks for the compliment.

TATIME:
Thanks for the compliment.

You're welcome

JMAN05:


No different God created the world. False religion which the bible said its controller is the Devil makes the account of the Universal Sovereign appear different. Yahweh is the creator of Heaven and Earth.

Any other story can be deduced from what those stories paint as inspired expressions. From there writings one can know which one is true.

What do you mean "no different god"? There are a lot of creation myths out there and I don't see how Genesis' creation story differs from the rest in terms of provenance.

HellVictorinho:

Hell has no mixtapes.
But he has a "studio in his head".

Lol...okay

XxSabrinaxX:

You're welcome

That guy is .......?
And I can't waste my time debating with him(TATIME) anymore.
He has proven to be..........?

HellVictorinho:

That guy is .......?
And I can't waste my time debating with him(TATIME) anymore.
He has proven to be..........?

Lol. Don't bother. There's no method to his madness

XxSabrinaxX:

Lol...okay

Hmmm.......I'm actually thinking of doing away with rap.
I probably won't get anywhere with it in this goddamn country.

XxSabrinaxX:

Lol. Don't bother. There's no method to his madness

Well that's what the Bible foretold too that unbelievers will say after listening to Christians "They are mad". 1Corinthians 2:14
But before you close the door of your heart let me tell you a SECRET!
The Bible actually foretold a time when the peoples globally will turn against their so called religious leader and this will lead to the death of RELIGION finally. When we studied it over 20 years ago,i begin to doubt Jehovah's organization because it's just too hard to swallow. What could make people from all races suddenly turn against their own RELIGIONS.
Many JWs that we studied that book together back then are sleeping in death now but my own faith is strengthened more and more as i'm witnessing the beginning of the fulfillment of that prophecy!
Now while you're all agitating against RELIGION, this is what you're NOT seeing! Remember ATHEISM is fast spreading today and the rate at which many are embracing atheism is alarming. There is something you're not seeing! When you finally succeeded in killing RELIGION, then you'll find it difficult to keep people in check because all the existing laws globally that's been keeping people away from evil is derived from the fear of PUNISHMENT! While those in position are telling their subjects that God or the gods detest some habits,but by that time there will be nothing like the fear of the unseen God or gods. Then everything will be placed on the reasoning of people!

Originakalokalo:

Where is he?

If I knew, would I be asking?

HellVictorinho:

What do you think about my rap?
You can also check out my rap battle with Raptex in a thread named "Challenge" in the rap category.
I took him to the cleaners.
I have other lines in the threads named "Flow For Rank" and "Lines you can never forget".
I have actually written 15 rap songs but I don't know when I'm ever gonna record them.
But I know the niggaz on the streetz are usually better than they who exist in some people's dreams.

Took me to the cleaners? LOL!!!!

@XxSabrinaxX, Who do you think won the battle?

By the way, Is that really you on your profile pic?

XxSabrinaxX:

Lol. Don't bother. There's no method to his madness

Youths won't have any reason whatsoever to bow to the ideas of the so called elderly ones, neither will the subjects respect the laws made by their rulers,everything will be based on whatever each person thinks or feels as RIGHT and WRONG! Then any blunder could attract a verbal or even physical abuse from the youths. There won't be any fear or respect for your grey hair, because all the gods are gone!
So no 60 or 70 years old man will get married to a girl of 23 without questioning, and their wives will sleep at will with youths of their age without hindrance, any slight complaint could lead to a naughty slap and by the end of the day,it will be arguments arguments arguments since no body dare say anything about some unseen God or gods that detests such habits.
No woman of 40 dare snatch the boyfriend of a girl of 19 years and go scot free. If they're running or playing, you dare not pass where they are expecting them to give you any respect because by then majority of them will find your feeble structure irritating.
But TRUE Christians will be around by then,and the Bible will be our source of protection from these uncontrollable generation, Jesus already taught us to reply "YES Sir" to whatever they say. Matthew 5:39-42
Then you who have NO hope of what's going to happen next will shed bitter tear saying "we shouldn't have removed the handcuffs (RELIGION) that's been keeping these huge guys and gals under check"!

TATIME:
Youths won't have any reason whatsoever to bow to the ideas of the so called elderly ones, neither will the subjects respect the laws made by their rulers,everything will be based on whatever each person thinks or feels as RIGHT and WRONG! Then any blunder could attract a verbal or even physical abuse from the youths. There won't be any fear or respect for your grey hair, because all the gods are gone!
So no 60 or 70 years old man will get married to a girl of 23 without questioning, and their wives will sleep at will with youths of their age without hindrance, any slight complaint could lead to a naughty slap and by the end of the day,it will be arguments arguments arguments since no body dare say anything about some unseen God or gods that detests such habits.
No woman of 40 dare snatch the boyfriend of a girl of 19 years and go scot free. If they're running or playing, you dare not pass where they are expecting them to give you any respect because by then majority of them will find your feeble structure irritating.
But TRUE Christians will be around by then,and the Bible will be our source of protection from these uncontrollable generation, Jesus already taught us to reply "YES Sir" to whatever they say. Matthew 5:39-42
Then you who have NO hope of what's going to happen next will shed bitter tear saying "we shouldn't have removed the handcuffs (RELIGION) that's been keeping these huge guys and gals under check"!

Ok

raptex:
Took me to the cleaners? LOL!!!!

@XxSabrinaxX, Who do you think won the battle?

By the way, Is that really you on your profile pic?

Its me indeed, compliment accepted
As for the battle, I don't know how to judge but I'm more familiar with Hell

XxSabrinaxX:

Ok

Out of curiosity, I wanna know what you would have done if I had a mix tape.
I started rap last year.
But it's not that colourful over here.
So I can only wish for some delight in the form of your person as I imagine the possibility of "Hell Let Loose".

HellVictorinho:

Out of curiosity, I wanna know what you would have done if I had a mix tape.
I started rap last year.
But it's not that colourful over here.
So I can only wish for some delight in the form of your person as I imagine the possibility of "Hell Let Loose".

Nothing. I just wanted to hear it. How old are you?

XxSabrinaxX:

Nothing. I just wanted to hear it.

You'd surely wanna hear it.
But I was also wondering if you would like to meet me in person.
OK,I've forgotten that I am not a celebrity.
Hmmnn......Hell never stops burning for your calling,anyway.

XxSabrinaxX:

Nothing. I just wanted to hear it. How old are you?

I'm within 21-23.

HellVictorinho:

I'm within 21-23.

From the moment you got easily enraged with anger i realized you're a kid,that's why i decided to give you what's beyond your age! You can go for Sabrina,she'll make a good Sugar~mummy for you boy!
Those little girls around won't be happy with such illicit MATING but since they're still kept in check by human laws coined out from RELIGIOUS doctrines, they'll be watching helplessly.
All that won't work easily again when RELIGION is dead! They'll come and force you out to pick one of them who is your age or face continuous abuse and attacks as long as you're mating with a woman old enough to be your aunty or mother!
And NO LAW can stop them!

TATIME:
From the moment you got easily enraged with anger i realized you're a kid,that's why i decided to give you what's beyond your age! You can go for Sabrina,she'll make a good Sugar~mummy for you boy!
Those little girls around won't be happy with such illicit MATING but since they're still kept in check by human laws coined out from RELIGIOUS doctrines, they'll be watching helplessly.
All that won't work easily again when RELIGION is dead! They'll come and force you out to pick one of them who is your age or face continuous abuse and attacks as long as you're mating with a woman old enough to be your aunty or mother!
And NO LAW can stop them!

Madness undiluted,which is being repeated under a different condition, with respect to observable change in speed.

HellVictorinho:

Madness undiluted,which is being repeated under a different condition, with respect to observable change in speed.

Yes! It's madness nah, what else will you call it? You can go check that your dictionary to get another horrible word for me my friend! You're just a KID!

HellVictorinho:

I'm within 21-23.

Me too . I'll be 23 in 2019.

HellVictorinho:

I'm within 21-23.

XxSabrinaxX:

Me too . I'll be 23 in 2019.

TATIME:
From the moment you got easily enraged with anger i realized you're a kid,that's why i decided to give you what's beyond your age! You can go for Sabrina,she'll make a good Sugar~mummy for you boy!
Those little girls around won't be happy with such illicit MATING but since they're still kept in check by human laws coined out from RELIGIOUS doctrines, they'll be watching helplessly.
All that won't work easily again when RELIGION is dead! They'll come and force you out to pick one of them who is your age or face continuous abuse and attacks as long as you're mating with a woman old enough to be your aunty or mother!
And NO LAW can stop them!

This is what happens when talking out of your ass is a constant habit . Think before you talk . A grown ass man like you should know that age doesn't equals maturity