Abortion is same as murder cause the foetus has already been formed.

XxSabrinaxX:
Abortion is not on the same level of murder. It is not a crime, because there are valid, justifiable reasons to have one. Said reasons include, but are not limited to:

1. Stillbirth: The baby has died in the womb, and rather than forcing the mother to endure the rest of the pregnancy, with possible serious side effects due to dead tissue, the doctors recommend an abortion or induced labor to get it out.
2. Non-viable: The foetus will not survive outside of the womb, or the chances of living are so minuscule as to be almost impossible. Again, rather than forcing the mother through a pregnancy that will only result in a dead body, an abortion is obtained.
3. Rape/Incest: Already traumatised by severe abuse, the pregnant person has no desire to be further traumatised by carrying and birthing a living reminder of their attacker. Nor do they want to give said abuser a chance to sue for joint custody or family visitation, which happens far more often that most sane people would think.
4. Serious Health Risks/Complications: Pregnancies are not easy. The maternal mortality rate is much lower than it used to be, but ectopic pregnancies, mothers too young to safely bear a child without serious consequences to their health, people with pre-existing medical conditions that could be fatally enhanced by pregnancy, etc. still exist.

I know people who are in the last category. To carry a pregnancy to term, one would have to completely forego life-saving medication. They would most likely not survive long enough for the foetus to reach viability. They can take all the precautions in the world, but abstinence is the only 100% effective form of birth control. If they became pregnant, they would get an abortion, because not getting one would gain them nothing but a coffin and six feet of dirt.

You can't say that preserving one's life should be considered a crime.

Stillbirth is not abortion, the baby is already dead in the womb.

frosbel2:
I was pondering this morning about murder , you know , with all the disturbing front page articles on murder and the gruesome pictures shown. I started thinking , how can people be so heartless and lacking in empathy to the extent of not just killing a fellow being but doing so in a manner that is savagely barbaric. These murderers must have mental health issues, anger problems or just plain evil built into their DNA.


Following this thinking, I began to wonder, but what about abortion, is it murder and if yes, is there a difference between a murderer who kills a grown man or woman, and someone who aborts a fetus.

Few things to consider about the Fetus

- The fetus is in a sort of oblivious state of being as it pertains to consciousness
- The fetus is not fully formed as a human being, so perhaps may not yet be a human being
- The fetus may be the result of a rape or unintended consequences ( such as intercourse between two careless people )
- The fetus may possess a deformity that if allowed to fully mature will result in a life of pain.


But there are some similarities between abortion and murder

- They are both premeditated
- They are both done for selfish reasons
- They both have expected and unintended consequences.

Considering this brief narrative, what do you think,

- Is abortion on the same level of evil as murder
- Is there a special case where abortion is permissible
- Is abortion is not murder regardless ?


Lets discuss

Ridiculous a question!

XxSabrinaxX:
Abortion is not on the same level of murder. It is not a crime, because there are valid, justifiable reasons to have one. Said reasons include, but are not limited to:

1. Stillbirth: The baby has died in the womb, and rather than forcing the mother to endure the rest of the pregnancy, with possible serious side effects due to dead tissue, the doctors recommend an abortion or induced labor to get it out.
2. Non-viable: The foetus will not survive outside of the womb, or the chances of living are so minuscule as to be almost impossible. Again, rather than forcing the mother through a pregnancy that will only result in a dead body, an abortion is obtained.
3. Rape/Incest: Already traumatised by severe abuse, the pregnant person has no desire to be further traumatised by carrying and birthing a living reminder of their attacker. Nor do they want to give said abuser a chance to sue for joint custody or family visitation, which happens far more often that most sane people would think.
4. Serious Health Risks/Complications: Pregnancies are not easy. The maternal mortality rate is much lower than it used to be, but ectopic pregnancies, mothers too young to safely bear a child without serious consequences to their health, people with pre-existing medical conditions that could be fatally enhanced by pregnancy, etc. still exist.

I know people who are in the last category. To carry a pregnancy to term, one would have to completely forego life-saving medication. They would most likely not survive long enough for the foetus to reach viability. They can take all the precautions in the world, but abstinence is the only 100% effective form of birth control. If they became pregnant, they would get an abortion, because not getting one would gain them nothing but a coffin and six feet of dirt.

You can't say that preserving one's life should be considered a crime.

I agree with all you said except abortion because of rape. The decision to terminate a pregnancy because of rape is synonymous as a child paying the ultimate price for his/her father's/mother's sins . Yes I related it to a child, because a fetus is a human cell and a cell is a living thing . it is murder even if the conception is as a result of rape

To the topic, To make a living thing die , you kill it. Either by murder or manslaughter. But since it is premeditated , it is murder . If that fertilized egg will be birthed as a baby in 9 months , then that fertilized egg is very human.

Lastly, with advancements in technology, a fertised egg's gender can be determined and stored before implantation (IVF) . That means the genetic composition of that human has been determined already from conception . Terminating that life is murder.

Na d same thing...
Life was terminated unjustly

I'm not in total support of abortion but it is not the same thing as murder. If you say abortion is murder then realising sperm inside condom is also murder because sperm is a living cell. They even swim about the fluid.

Abortion is even more evil than murder.

Please don't try that evil deed with your girlfriend because I know that she want you to give her money for abortion. That's why you posted this senseless post here.

Evil girl

Why don't you guys carry on with the pregnancy, let her deliver that baby and see how God will open doors of endless wealth to you people.

Unwanted pregnancy is not bad, it's not the end of the world.
Pregnancy is a good thing.

Michellekabod1:

Firstly,it is very possible to give birth to a HIV negative baby if you are HIV positive.
Secondly, immediately after rape pregnancy could be prevented using emergency contraceptive

And if conception has already occurred?

It is murder because an act is carried out and blood is shed... There's no excuse for committing abortion, if you don't want a child, abstain or use contraceptives if you wanna fornicate instead of justifying a wicked act, except in the case of a miscarriage. I don't know why this should be an FP topic

frosbel2:
I was pondering this morning about murder , you know , with all the disturbing front page articles on murder and the gruesome pictures shown. I started thinking , how can people be so heartless and lacking in empathy to the extent of not just killing a fellow being but doing so in a manner that is savagely barbaric. These murderers must have mental health issues, anger problems or just plain evil built into their DNA.


Following this thinking, I began to wonder, but what about abortion, is it murder and if yes, is there a difference between a murderer who kills a grown man or woman, and someone who aborts a fetus.

Few things to consider about the Fetus

- The fetus is in a sort of oblivious state of being as it pertains to consciousness
- The fetus is not fully formed as a human being, so perhaps may not yet be a human being
- The fetus may be the result of a rape or unintended consequences ( such as intercourse between two careless people )
- The fetus may possess a deformity that if allowed to fully mature will result in a life of pain.


But there are some similarities between abortion and murder

- They are both premeditated
- They are both done for selfish reasons
- They both have expected and unintended consequences.

Considering this brief narrative, what do you think,

- Is abortion on the same level of evil as murder
- Is there a special case where abortion is permissible
- Is abortion is not murder regardless ?


Lets discuss

Not all abortions are done for selfish reasons.

Other reasons includes

1. Foetus no longer growing

2. Foetus wrongly positioned and could put the life of the host in danger

Quick question.
If you were in a Hospital and there was a fire incident.
On your way out you heard a baby cry in a room on fire.
You entered to rescue the baby only to find out there was an incubator carrying 4 Human Foetus developing outside the human body.
You have the option to save only One.
Which do you save?

LordReed:


And if conception has already occurred?

Keep it

Weda u fall from palm tree and die or palm tree fall on you and u die, die is dieWeda u fall from palm tree and die or palm tree fall on you and u die, die is dieWeda u fall from palm tree and die or palm tree fall on you and u die, die is die

yes

Here is the solution to all you ask for ..

So SAD I WASN'T HERE TO PUT THIS ON THE FIRST PAGE

its same fin...both cases life is involved nd dat life was terminated...in d mosaic law in d book of genesis a man who hits a pregnant woman nd d woman happes to loose d child its paid an eye for an eye d man gats pay with his life...to show aw sacred it is

Pls do you (know anybody who) wants to abort? Do not let that person go d way. There are couples out there longing for children.

johnydon22:
I do not have much interest in your thread having gone over it like a thousand times before. But there are some absurd assertions that caught my attention that i feel should be corrected.



1. It has been shown that fetus feel pain
2. It has been shown they recoil at discomfort.

Therefore, they are not oblivious to external stimuli not even to the threat of death.

3. Obliviousness is not an argument still to kill a human or we could all agree it is morally permissible to kill a comatose patient because, he is oblivious.

This is basically the most absurd assertion from this thread. There is no such a thing as a fully formed human. A human is a state of being not a stage stop conflating the two.

There is never a time something that isn't human becomes human at some point, anything that isn't human isn't human and cannot be human. A human is always a human but goes through several stages of being human.

Human adult
Human adolescent
Human child
Human baby
Human fetus

These are different stages of being human but in all these stages only one thing is constant, human.

An adult is no more human than an adolescent and thus down the chain.

So please, there is no such thing as a fully formed human, unless you should give us the definition of human on which you base this premise.

Cause and effect? It is not the child's fault at any instance.


What stops us from killing out every deformed person on earth now whether they are born or not?

are u a lawyer sir??

Michellekabod1:

Keep it

For a rape victim? That may be an unreasonable request. Not everyone wants to carry around the reminder of a traumatic event for nine months (which itself can be a different traumatic period) then have another reminder for the rest of your life.

frosbel2:
I was pondering this morning about murder , you know , with all the disturbing front page articles on murder and the gruesome pictures shown. I started thinking , how can people be so heartless and lacking in empathy to the extent of not just killing a fellow being but doing so in a manner that is savagely barbaric. These murderers must have mental health issues, anger problems or just plain evil built into their DNA.


Following this thinking, I began to wonder, but what about abortion, is it murder and if yes, is there a difference between a murderer who kills a grown man or woman, and someone who aborts a fetus.

Few things to consider about the Fetus

- The fetus is in a sort of oblivious state of being as it pertains to consciousness
- The fetus is not fully formed as a human being, so perhaps may not yet be a human being
- The fetus may be the result of a rape or unintended consequences ( such as intercourse between two careless people )
- The fetus may possess a deformity that if allowed to fully mature will result in a life of pain.


But there are some similarities between abortion and murder

- They are both premeditated
- They are both done for selfish reasons
- They both have expected and unintended consequences.

Considering this brief narrative, what do you think,

- Is abortion on the same level of evil as murder
- Is there a special case where abortion is permissible
- Is abortion is not murder regardless ?


Lets discuss

I really do not know the spiritual implication of abortion though but I believe that instead of bringing a child to suffer in the world, it is better to abort. That is if the mistake has already been made.

Murder on the other hand is taking a life that is equal to yours and every being has equal right to live.

Michellekabod1:

Firstly,it is very possible to give birth to a HIV negative baby if you are HIV positive.
Secondly, immediately after rape pregnancy could be prevented using emergency contraceptive

I understand u are trying to be moral, but there are times when we as humans need to take some critical decisions for the benefit of all. U said it is possible to give birth to HIV negative baby when the mother is HIV positive, that also means it's very possible (and most likely)to give birth to an HIV positive baby if not well managed. So let's say the woman got raped by an HIV positive man, got pregnant, she needs to be on ARVs for the child to get a chance of being HIV negatibe (still not 100% avoidable). So let's say the mother doesn't know she was HIV positive until like after 3-4 months, there is every chance the foetus would probably be psoitive, and what if the mother doesn't have the financial ability to remain on ARVs, so u are gonna blame her for getting pregnant from rape? Or it is moral for her to give birth to an HIV positive baby to come and suffer?

Michellekabod1:


Secondly, immediately after rape pregnancy could be prevented using emergency contraceptive

So let's say after the whole trauma of tape she forgot to take contraceptives (again contraceptives are not 100% effective all the time anyway ), or she was ignorant about it (there are many young ladies that know nothing about contraceptives, or haven't u seen 12 yr olds getting raped and getting pregnant). Some of these young girl get raped and they won't say anything due to shame until the pregnancy becomes visible. So put urself in those shoes, are u going to deliver a child for the rapist just because u want to be moral? Or u are going to blame the poor girl for not taking contraceptives and so she should suffer the consequences of giving birth to an HIV positive bastard? Mbanu, sometimes we need to take tough decisions in life. If u call that kind of abortion murder then self defense should also be called murder because u can choose to do the moral thing and not defend urself against someone that wants to kill u. Also the George that gives someone death sentence together with the hangman should be termed murderers because they just took someone's life, they could have done the moral thing and not do it.

johnydon22:
I do not have much interest in your thread having gone over it like a thousand times before. But there are some absurd assertions that caught my attention that i feel should be corrected.



1. It has been shown that fetus feel pain
2. It has been shown they recoil at discomfort.

Therefore, they are not oblivious to external stimuli not even to the threat of death.

3. Obliviousness is not an argument still to kill a human or we could all agree it is morally permissible to kill a comatose patient because, he is oblivious.

This is basically the most absurd assertion from this thread. There is no such a thing as a fully formed human. A human is a state of being not a stage stop conflating the two.

There is never a time something that isn't human becomes human at some point, anything that isn't human isn't human and cannot be human. A human is always a human but goes through several stages of being human.

Human adult
Human adolescent
Human child
Human baby
Human fetus

These are different stages of being human but in all these stages only one thing is constant, human.

An adult is no more human than an adolescent and thus down the chain.

So please, there is no such thing as a fully formed human, unless you should give us the definition of human on which you base this premise.

Cause and effect? It is not the child's fault at any instance.


What stops us from killing out every deformed person on earth now whether they are born or not?

You are very intelligent and I approve your assertions. I'd just like to chip in that abortion is medically permissible and recommended when the presence of the foetus is harmful to the mother. Complications could arise in some pregnancies where the mother falls to great risk due to abnormalities in the foetus, or even in an ectopic pregnancy.


This actually, is one of the worst decisions a woman has to make. Letting your baby go, because he might cause you death. Some may actually insist they die rather than have their baby removed, if the baby isn't up to the stage of incubation.

How many times will I say. Stopping sperm from reaching the ovary is murder

squarelead:
How many times will I say. Stopping sperm from reaching the ovary is murder

Primitive MAN, go back to your CAVE and stay there !!!

No it's not murder

greenhulk:


I understand u are trying to be moral, but there are times when we as humans need to take some critical decisions for the benefit of all. U said it is possible to give birth to HIV negative baby when the mother is HIV positive, that also means it's very possible (and most likely)to give birth to an HIV positive baby if not well managed. So let's say the woman got raped by an HIV positive man, got pregnant, she needs to be on ARVs for the child to get a chance of being HIV negatibe (still not 100% avoidable). So let's say the mother doesn't know she was HIV positive until like after 3-4 months, there is every chance the foetus would probably be psoitive, and what if the mother doesn't have the financial ability to remain on ARVs, so u are gonna blame her for getting pregnant from rape? Or it is moral for her to give birth to an HIV positive baby to come and suffer?



So let's say after the whole trauma of tape she forgot to take contraceptives (again contraceptives are not 100% effective all the time anyway ), or she was ignorant about it (there are many young ladies that know nothing about contraceptives, or haven't u seen 12 yr olds getting raped and getting pregnant). Some of these young girl get raped and they won't say anything due to shame until the pregnancy becomes visible. So put urself in those shoes, are u going to deliver a child for the rapist just because u want to be moral? Or u are going to blame the poor girl for not taking contraceptives and so she should suffer the consequences of giving birth to an HIV positive bastard? Mbanu, sometimes we need to take tough decisions in life. If u call that kind of abortion murder then self defense should also be called murder because u can choose to do the moral thing and not defend urself against someone that wants to kill u. Also the George that gives someone death sentence together with the hangman should be termed murderers because they just took someone's life, they could have done the moral thing and not do it.

It is required that after a rape incidence a lady should report the incidence to a police station and go for proper medical examination. The baby shouldn't be blamed for a neglect on her part .
As frosbel said,if a judge sentences someone to death,Justice is been dispensed and not murder

Michellekabod1:

Keep it

Even at a possible risk to the life of the mother?