Antichristus:


Yes, if they're clinically confirmed to be brain dead!

Then that is no longer commatose but death

Ihedinobi3:

To begin, I assume that you invited me because you are interested in hearing the biblical point of view. I have little interest in the political issues involved.

Clearly, abortion is wrong by the Bible's standards. The reason, however, is not quite the same as is commonly thought.

The human person according to the Bible only comes into existence when God creates a human spirit and puts it into the human body that He has formed (Genesis 2:7). So, the fetus is not really alive even at full term. It is only at birth that a human being comes into existence.

However, there can be no living human without a body to put the human spirit in. So, obviously, that fetus is still critical to the existence of the human being. So, abortion is not acceptable at all by biblical standards.

As such, only in exceptional cases should it be countenanced at all. Such cases will be worked out by the person in the unique situation. But, obviously, the reason cannot be so frivolous as "I don't want to have a baby right now".

So if you are saying a foetus is not yet human because it does not have the spirit of God in it.. But remember what God said to prophet Jeremiah in the Bible

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart (Jeremiah 1:5a)

kennyz247:
he that have no sin should b the first to tro the stone mr over righteous ,u type nodey make heaven las las

This isn't about religion or who will make heaven or not:
Evil is Evil Lesser, greater, middling........ Makes no difference The degree is arbitary The definition is blurred..... If I'm to choose between one evil and another..... I'd rather not choose at all

frosbel2:



Primitive MAN, go back to your CAVE and stay there !!!

Stay. It takes only a primitive man to discover a primitive man.

An excellent submission brother! One that is not based on religion or any bias, but purely on good reasoning. Your submission is most educating.

johnydon22:
I do not have much interest in your thread having gone over it like a thousand times before. But there are some absurd assertions that caught my attention that i feel should be corrected.



1. It has been shown that fetus feel pain
2. It has been shown they recoil at discomfort.

Therefore, they are not oblivious to external stimuli not even to the threat of death.

3. Obliviousness is not an argument still to kill a human or we could all agree it is morally permissible to kill a comatose patient because, he is oblivious.

This is basically the most absurd assertion from this thread. There is no such a thing as a fully formed human. A human is a state of being not a stage stop conflating the two.

There is never a time something that isn't human becomes human at some point, anything that isn't human isn't human and cannot be human. A human is always a human but goes through several stages of being human.

Human adult
Human adolescent
Human child
Human baby
Human fetus

These are different stages of being human but in all these stages only one thing is constant, human.

An adult is no more human than an adolescent and thus down the chain.

So please, there is no such thing as a fully formed human, unless you should give us the definition of human on which you base this premise.

Cause and effect? It is not the child's fault at any instance.


What stops us from killing out every deformed person on earth now whether they are born or not?

Heathen777:
Abortion can't be likened to murder, because a fetus isn't a developed human being.

There is nothing as a fully developed human. The human body continues to go through different developments.

Gracespecial101:


So if you are saying a foetus is not yet human because it does not have the spirit of God in it.. But remember what God said to prophet Jeremiah in the Bible

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart (Jeremiah 1:5a)

A foetus is obviously a human body yet in formation. What it is not is a human person because God has not yet created a human spirit and put into it. That is what the Bible actually teaches.

That God knew Jeremiah before He formed his body in his mother's womb does not make this a lie. What it does is further strengthen my argument that the foetus should be held sacred because it is going to be a human person's body unless God decides otherwise (e.g., stillbirths, miscarriages, etc).

Ihedinobi3:

A foetus is obviously a human body yet in formation. What it is not is a human person because God has not yet created a human spirit and put into it. That is what the Bible actually teaches.

That God knew Jeremiah before He formed his body in his mother's womb does not make this a lie. What it does is further strengthen my argument that the foetus should be held sacred because it is going to be a human person's body unless God decides otherwise (e.g., stillbirths, miscarriages, etc).

Hmmmm, so your saying it can't be called Murder??

Gracespecial101:


Hmmmm, so your saying it can't be called Murder??

Please reread the post you responded to initially.

Ihedinobi3:

A foetus is obviously a human body yet in formation. What it is not is a human person because God has not yet created a human spirit and put into it. That is what the Bible actually teaches.

That God knew Jeremiah before He formed his body in his mother's womb does not make this a lie. What it does is further strengthen my argument that the foetus should be held sacred because it is going to be a human person's body unless God decides otherwise (e.g., stillbirths, miscarriages, etc).

As per the bolded, that is not what the bible teaches, that is what you think it teaches, alas it is based on astounding error.

What you are telling us is that each time a baby is born , God at that moment imparts his spirit , and is actively doing so for millions of babies born daily. That's plain nonsense and based on PAGAN Theology.

First off , your bible says that God finished creating on the 6th day and rested on the 7th day, meaning that creation is completed , 100% full stop .

Then Gracespecial101 quoted Jeremiah 1:5a with emphasis on ...."Before I formed you in the womb I knew you..." - meaning that the bringing of a human being into existence starts in the mothers womb - period. There is no such thing as creating the human 'spirit' again and again and again. What we have here is formation as a result of the initial creation when God said "Go and be fruitful and multiply ".

Further it is not God who causes miscarriages and stillbirths, these are medical conditions , induced by a range of factors. Please just stop !!

You need to do some more independent study.

frosbel2:


As per the bolded, that is not what the bible teaches, that is what you think it teaches, alas it is based on astounding error.

What you are telling us is that each time a baby is born , God at that moment imparts his spirit , and is actively doing so for millions of babies born daily. That's plain nonsense and based on PAGAN Theology.

First off , your bible says that God finished creating on the 6th day and rested on the 7th day, meaning that creation is completed , 100% full stop .

Then Gracespecial101 quoted Jeremiah 1:5a with emphasis on ...."Before I formed you in the womb I knew you..." - meaning that the bringing of a human being into existence starts in the mothers womb - period. There is no such thing as creating the human 'spirit' again and again and again. What we have here is formation as a result of the initial creation when God said "Go and be fruitful and multiply ".

Further it is not God who causes miscarriages and stillbirths, these are medical conditions , induced by a range of factors. Please just stop !!

You need to do some more independent study.

First, in all our conversations since I returned to active posting on this website last year until now, you have not demonstrated any authority in the Bible to decide what it teaches or doesn't teach. You are the one ripping it up and insisting what does and doesn't belong in it with absolutely no respect for its origins or overall thrust. And yet you can tell me what it means? If I ask you to demonstrate your position again, you will fill the thread with appeals to original languages you have no tutoring in and links you little understand as well as arguments that have absolutely no substance. Just like the above.

The Bible teaches very clearly in Genesis 2:7 that God formed the body first before He created a spirit and put it into the body so that a human person (or soul) would begin to exist. Nothing in all of the Bible after that indicates that God ever changed that method. When He used a rib instead of dust, the Bible told us. When He used the reproductive cells of man and woman, the Bible told us. Why would it say nothing about any change in the sequence and by that mean that we should assume that there was such a change?

The Lord Jesus Himself said that God was still working at the time He walked the earth during His first advent. So, clearly, God hasn't been lounging around in Heaven just looking on. Paul said in Hebrews that there is still a rest that God has planned and that it is for those who trust in Him and persevere in that Trust. If it was the 7th day of creation, that should be long past. But our Lord Jesus's Words clearly mean that this is another rest. So, of course, God is still very busy in this creation.

As for your incredulity about the work involved in creating so many humans the same way, it's only more proof of the growing darkness and hardness in your heart. If God could make such a vast, complex universe even if in six days as some argue (although the first creation occurred at once with the creation of time as well), why is it a difficult thing to believe that He would be creating millions of babies at once? He is God. There is nothing difficult for Him to do at all. If He wished it, He could create the full complement of humankind in one single instant without breaking a sweat. And you think it is ridiculous that He should create so many babies at once?

As for the argument you reference, if we go for a dollar, why not for a million? Why argue that life began at conception when God said "before I formed you..."? Life must have begun even before conception, since that was when God knew Jeremiah!

As for miscarriages etc., where did I say that it was God Who caused them? I said only that in those cases He decided not to create a human spirit and thus produce a human person. It could very well be because of irresponsible actions on the part of the parents or because of accidents or because of God's foreknowledge. Whatever it may be, all I know for certain is that God decides in those cases not to create a human spirit and thus produce a human person. The rest is your fabrication. As is often the case.

As for independent study, I will never cease to bless the Lord God for His Great Kindness in giving gifted and prepared teachers to the Church to protect us from the lies that capture arrogant hearts such as yours.

kennyz247:

he that have no sin should b the first to tro the stone
mr over righteous ,u type nodey make heaven las las

Fish brain fvck off my mention.

franklingud:


Fish brain fvck off my mention.

cow brain get off my quote and do something with ur bleeped life

franklingud:

Fish brain fvck off my mention.

cow brain get off my quote and do something with ur bleeped life

Ihedinobi3:
Please reread the post you responded to initially.

Just did, thanks for doing it maturedly
Nice write up keep the spirit Going

Lotechi:
I really do not know the spiritual implication of abortion though but [s]I believe that instead of bringing a child to suffer in the world, it is better to abort. [/s]That is if the mistake has already been made.

Murde on the other hand is taking a life that is equal to yours and every being has equal right to live.

But a child's life isn't equal to yours? SMH...

Gracespecial101:


Just did, thanks for doing it maturedly

Nice write up keep the spirit Going

Happy to serve you.

Godskidk:


But a child's life isn't equal to yours? SMH...

I'm just against humans suffering.
I'm pro life. But I still believe that parents should have enough to take care of any life being created.

[quote author=Ihedinobi3 post=74972867]
First, in all our conversations since I returned to active posting on this website last year until now, you have not demonstrated any authority in the Bible to decide what it teaches or doesn't teach.

In your opinion, that is. Likewise, you have not demonstrated any authority in the Bible to decide what it teaches or doesn't teach. You Ihedinobi3 , are not the authority on all things relating to bible truth. Your theology is just that, your theology based on your own interpretation.

You are the one ripping it up and insisting what does and doesn't belong in it with absolutely no respect for its origins or overall thrust. And yet you can tell me what it means? If I ask you to demonstrate your position again, you will fill the thread with appeals to original languages you have no tutoring in and links you little understand as well as arguments that have absolutely no substance. Just like the above.

On the contrary, I am calling it for what it is, it will not take a 10 year old too long to decipher fables and fairy tales when reading a book that purports to be based on absolute, inerrant, factual, infallible and non negotiable truth. Well I am here to tell you that it is none of the above , and I do not need a degree in Theology to come to this conclusion. I have read the bible almost cover to cover, meditated upon the content , prayed on it, discussed it , debated it and preached it. Then I have subjected it to an intensive exegesis based on some of the best scholarly material out there including bible study tools.

In your outstanding hubris, it will be almost impossible for you to come to an even slightly different opinion, because of your dependence on biased theology, refusal to subject the bible to an OBJECTIVE study and willingness to maintain your status quo in the church ( whatever that may be ). So before you comment again , qualify your statements with 'in my opinion' because your opinion is not infallible.

The Bible teaches very clearly in Genesis 2:7 that God formed the body first before He created a spirit and put it into the body so that a human person (or soul) would begin to exist. Nothing in all of the Bible after that indicates that God ever changed that method. When He used a rib instead of dust, the Bible told us. When He used the reproductive cells of man and woman, the Bible told us. Why would it say nothing about any change in the sequence and by that mean that we should assume that there was such a change?

Then then he BREATHED into ( not put spirit into ) the inanimate body of man and man became a SOUL. Do you remember this scripture ;

"As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead " - James 2:26

The Lord Jesus Himself said that God was still working at the time He walked the earth during His first advent. So, clearly, God hasn't been lounging around in Heaven just looking on. Paul said in Hebrews that there is still a rest that God has planned and that it is for those who trust in Him and persevere in that Trust. If it was the 7th day of creation, that should be long past. But our Lord Jesus's Words clearly mean that this is another rest. So, of course, God is still very busy in this creation.

According to your bible, there are two rests , one for God ( 7th day ) and one for this PEOPLE ( In the future as per the verse below ). The future rest does not have any relevance to God resting again from creation, that's just plain false. Please read the whole chapter of the scripture below;

" There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his - Hebrews 4:9-10

As for your incredulity about the work involved in creating so many humans the same way, it's only more proof of the growing darkness and hardness in your heart.

On the contrary, it is your incredulity that is placing unproven religious dogma over proven scientific theories.

If God could make such a vast, complex universe even if in six days as some argue (although the first creation occurred at once with the creation of time as well), why is it a difficult thing to believe that He would be creating millions of babies at once? He is God. There is nothing difficult for Him to do at all. If He wished it, He could create the full complement of humankind in one single instant without breaking a sweat. And you think it is ridiculous that He should create so many babies at once?

Oh, you still believe that God created the earth in 6 days ? You are more than this Ihedinobi3, even renown bible believing scholars are done with this nonsense.

I think and believe, as do so many others , than once God had designed the blue print of MAN and created the first man , that blue print was deployed with automation and orchestration tools to produce copies of man according to DNA and other biological characteristics. Therefore , God could rest from his works and his decree of creation could carry on for millennia upon millennia without his manual intervention. This makes more sense, your position is simply not true.

As for the argument you reference, if we go for a dollar, why not for a million? Why argue that life began at conception when God said "before I formed you..."? Life must have begun even before conception, since that was when God knew Jeremiah!

Simples, he formed man by his decree of creation when man was made.

As for miscarriages etc., where did I say that it was God Who caused them? I said only that in those cases He decided not to create a human spirit and thus produce a human person. It could very well be because of irresponsible actions on the part of the parents or because of accidents or because of God's foreknowledge. Whatever it may be, all I know for certain is that God decides in those cases not to create a human spirit and thus produce a human person. The rest is your fabrication. As is often the case.

"He decides not to create a human spirit and thus produce a human person " is what you call Miscarriage ? I am sorry but your knowledge of science is almost zero, it is rather unfortunate that someone of your stature will talk like this in the 21st century , but then again that's what too much bible cramming without applying logic does to people.

As for independent study, I will never cease to bless the Lord God for His Great Kindness in giving gifted and prepared teachers to the Church to protect us from the lies that capture arrogant hearts such as yours

You don't even know you right from your left when it comes to theology, you are simply spouting out what you learnt from your inerrant bible.

frosbel2:

In your opinion, that is. Likewise, you have not demonstrated any authority in the Bible to decide what it teaches or doesn't teach. You ihedinobi3 , are not the authority on all things relating to bible truth. Your theology is just that, your theology based on your own interpretation.

I don't make such decisions. Everything I say about the Bible is subject to the Bible itself. I may be a teacher but my job is to interpret the Bible, not to tell it what to say and what not to say. No, that bit has been all you until now.

frosbel2:
On the contrary, I am calling it for what it is, it will not take a 10 year old too long to decipher fables and fairy tales when reading a book that purports to be based on absolute, inerrant, factual, infallible and non negotiable truth. Well I am here to tell you that it is none of the above , and I do not need a degree in Theology to come to this conclusion. I have read the bible almost cover to cover, meditated upon the content , prayed on it, discussed it , debated it and preached it. Then I have subjected it to an intensive exegesis based on some of the best scholarly material out there including bible study tools.

In your outstanding hubris, it will be almost impossible for you to come to an even slightly different opinion, because of your dependence on biased theology, refusal to subject the bible to an OBJECTIVE study and willingness to maintain your status quo in the church ( whatever that may be ). So before you comment again , qualify your statements with 'in my opinion' because your opinion is not infallible.

LOL. You think you have studied the Bible more objectively than I have?! LOL!!!

frosbel2:
Then then he BREATHED into ( not put spirit into ) the inanimate body of man and man became a SOUL. Do you remember this scripture ;

"As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead " - James 2:26

Frosbel, you are confused.

frosbel2:
According to your bible, there are two rests , one for God ( 7th day ) and one for this PEOPLE ( In the future as per the verse below ). The future rest does not have any relevance to God resting again from creation, that's just plain false. Please read the whole chapter of the scripture below;

" There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his - Hebrews 4:9-10

[3]For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, "As I swore in My wrath, They shall not enter My rest," although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Hebrews 4:3 NASB

frosbel2:
On the contrary, it is your incredulity that is placing unproven religious dogma over proven scientific theories.

What incredulity do you speak of? What did science prove here?

frosbel2:
Oh, you still believe that God created the earth in 6 days ? You are more than this ihedinobi3, even renown bible believing scholars are done with this nonsense.

I think and believe, as do so many others , than once God had designed the blue print of MAN and created the first man , that blue print was deployed with automation and orchestration tools to produce copies of man according to DNA and other biological characteristics. Therefore , God could rest from his works and his decree of creation could carry on for millennia upon millennia without his manual intervention. This makes more sense, your position is simply not true.

Says the man parroting independent study.

You may like it and it may make more sense to you but that certainly doesn't make it true.

frosbel2:
Simples, he formed man by his decree of creation when man was made.

You have nothing to say, frosbel.

frosbel2:
"He decides not to create a human spirit and thus produce a human person " is what you call Miscarriage ? I am sorry but your knowledge of science is almost zero, it is rather unfortunate that someone of your stature will talk like this in the 21st century , but then again that's what too much bible cramming without applying logic does to people.

Frosbel, not only do I wonder if you have problems reading, I also wonder how you think that talking about ultimate causes necessarily invalidates the mechanisms by which they produce effects.

First of all, miscarriage was one example I gave of what results when God decides not to create a human spirit. So, that is NOT the definition of not creating a human spirit. It is only one possible result of that decision.

Second, all the science involved explains HOW miscarriages etc happen, not ultimately why they happen. Knowing that pushing pedals, turning wheels, moving levers etc are all how cars move, for example, does not answer why they ultimately do. They do because they were designed and powered to and because someone actually pushes those pedals, turns that wheel and moves that lever to make them move.

frosbel2:
You don't even know you right from your left when it comes to theology, you are simply spouting out what you learnt from your inerrant bible.

You're very welcome to your opinions. Doesn't mean I have to care about them.

Ihedinobi3:

I don't make such decisions. Everything I say about the Bible is subject to the Bible itself. I may be a teacher but my job is to interpret the Bible, not to tell it what to say and what not to say. No, that bit has been all you until now.

Would you not rather say 'Everything the bible says about itself is subject to the Bible itself ' ? And either way ( i.e you or the bible ) - if it is indeed true that the bible validates itself , how come a large proportion of christian denominations disagree with each other on core doctrines such as the Trinity, how salvation is achieved, eschatology and much more - the same bible being used to validate all positions for and against on matters of doctrine, used to condemn one another and used to judge most of the world into a flaming eternal hell.

Christians have killed Christians for holding different interpretations of the bible , white slave masters have used this your bible to enslave millions of brown people, your bible has been used to wage crusades that saw the massacre of not only Muslims and other minorities but even Jews, the people of the book.

Mr, the bible is a book that can be used to justify or contradict anything on this earth, it is truly CONFUSING.

But I guess according to Ihedinobi3 , HIS INTERPRETATION of the Bible is validated by the Bible, the same thing other so called men of god say while contradicting one another. Give me a break pal.

LOL. You think you have studied the Bible more objectively than I have?! LOL!!!

At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Well maybe the bolded is the reason why you do not UNDERSTAND !!!

[3]For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, "As I swore in My wrath, They shall not enter My rest," although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Hebrews 4:3 NASB

Another instance of your bible contradicting itself - buttressing the points I made earlier.

You may like it and it may make more sense to you but that certainly doesn't make it true.

Likewise -

First of all, miscarriage was one example I gave of what results when God decides not to create a human spirit. So, that is NOT the definition of not creating a human spirit. It is only one possible result of that decision.

Preposterous all the same. Please don't say this in learned circles especially here in the west, you will be laughed off the 'scene'.

Imagine saying that the core reason for miscarriages is God refusing to create a human spirit , but the outward evidence is a biological process that deviates from the norm. Please please STOP !!!

Second, all the science involved explains HOW miscarriages etc happen, not ultimately why they happen. Knowing that pushing pedals, turning wheels, moving levers etc are all how cars move, for example, does not answer why they ultimately do. They do because they were designed and powered to and because someone actually pushes those pedals, turns that wheel and moves that lever to make them move.

You know what , I don't want to waste my time, here is an article that will educate you on the actual causes of miscarriage.

CAUSES OF MISCARRIAGE

frosbel2:


Would you not rather say 'Everything the bible says about itself is subject to the Bible itself ' ? And either way ( i.e you or the bible ) - if it is indeed true that the bible validates itself , how come a large proportion of christian denominations disagree with each other on core doctrines such as the Trinity, how salvation is achieved, eschatology and much more - the same bible being used to validate all positions for and against on matters of doctrine, used to condemn one another and used to judge most of the world into a flaming eternal hell.

Christians have killed Christians for holding different interpretations of the bible , white slave masters have used this your bible to enslave millions of brown people, your bible has been used to wage crusades that saw the massacre of not only Muslims and other minorities but even Jews, the people of the book.

Mr, the bible is a book that can be used to justify or contradict anything on this earth, it is truly CONFUSING.

But I guess according to Ihedinobi3 , HIS INTERPRETATION of the Bible is validated by the Bible, the same thing other so called men of god say while contradicting one another. Give me a break pal.

LOL! The Bible can be used to say anything at all and yet it has been soundly refuting your own spurious interpretations until now. You really have nothing to say.

The Bible says what it says. Every interpretation is either validated by it or refuted by it.

As to your straw man at the end, it is only characteristic of you to make up things and attribute them to other sources. I certainly said nothing like what you insist I claimed. If my interpretations of the Bible are subject to the Bible, as I actually said, then only in so far as they are validated by the Bible are they correct. But, of course, you can't help believing lies that help you avoid the Truth of God in Christ Jesus.

frosbel2:
At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Well maybe the bolded is the reason why you do not UNDERSTAND !!!

Oh my word!!!! LOL!!!! Frosbel is telling me that I don't understand because I am "wise and learned"!!! But I don't know anything about science, says the same frosbel. And I don't know my right from my left in theology, says the same frosbel. Oga, your confusion is stratospheric!

frosbel2:
Another instance of your bible contradicting itself - buttressing the points I made earlier.

I am only doing this conversation with you because I am breaking discipline. There is no value in this conversation beyond the comic quality of it.

Your earlier point was already destroyed. I was only destroying the new lie you wanted to hide under.

The Bible is clear: the 7th day rest was both real and symbolic of a later rest. This later rest is still God's Rest. It is the rest that comes at the end of the war that began with creature rebellion. The contradiction is all in your small and contracting mind, frosbel.

frosbel2:
Likewise -

Likewise what? Did I ever offer an opinion like yours? As I said, I simply interpret the Bible and if the Bible disagrees with my interpretation then I am wrong. But you are God, aren't you? Your opinions are eternal decrees that cannot ever be faulted. Except that that is completely untrue.

frosbel2:
Preposterous all the same. Please don't say this in learned circles especially here in the west, you will be laughed off the 'scene'.

Imagine saying that the core reason for miscarriages is God refusing to create a human spirit , but the outward evidence is a biological process that deviates from the norm. Please please STOP !!!

Says the prophet of independent study! LOL!!! Confused frosbel.

frosbel2:
You know what , I don't want to waste my time, besides I am about to go somewhere. Here is an article that will educate you on the actual causes of miscarriage.

CAUSES OF MISCARRIAGE

Biko, shift. Following an argument and walking a straight line in a conversation are impossible for you.

[quote author=Ihedinobi3 post=75029849]
LOL! The Bible can be used to say anything at all and yet it has been soundly refuting your own spurious interpretations until now. You really have nothing to say.

On the contrary , your erroneous position on this topic is not supported by your own bible that you claim to know so well. No matter how loud you shout , the bible refuses to agree with you on this matter. Your position is based on Ihedinobi3's understanding of what he thinks the bible verses are saying , with a little bit of added salt of his own. Don't delude yourself, just accept that you are not sure.

The Bible says what it says. Every interpretation is either validated by it or refuted by it.

One bible, 100,000 denominations and many more doctrines, all from the one Bible -

You and your fellow church leaders should be called , not apologists , but contortionists of the bible.

As to your straw man at the end, it is only characteristic of you to make up things and attribute them to other sources. I certainly said nothing like what you insist I claimed. If my interpretations of the Bible are subject to the Bible, as I actually said, then only in so far as they are validated by the Bible are they correct. But, of course, you can't help believing lies that help you avoid the Truth of God in Christ Jesus.

But every 'wrong' doctrine is supported by the bible , so say the holders of these doctrines. They say things like, ' I stand on the undiluted word of god ' or ' my doctrine is bible doctrine' etc and yet they disagree with their fellow brethren in other churches on the same doctrines. Is this not pure comedy ? And FYI, I am not avoiding a so called truth in Jesus Christ because he is NOT the TRUTH, the WAY or the LIFE. No chance, wrong, unfounded nonsense.

Oh my word!!!! LOL!!!! Frosbel is telling me that I don't understand because I am "wise and learned"!!! But I don't know anything about science, says the same frosbel. And I don't know my right from my left in theology, says the same frosbel. Oga, your confusion is stratospheric!

I am not sure what level of education you have achieved, it does appear to me that you have at least gained good qualifications in the English Language and Bible Study. Not sure about other subjects but I am certain you must have come close to zero in the sciences - no joke here.

I am only doing this conversation with you because I am breaking discipline. There is no value in this conversation beyond the comic quality of it.

Don't flatter yourself.

The Bible is clear: the 7th day rest was both real and symbolic of a later rest. This later rest is still God's Rest. It is the rest that comes at the end of the war that began with creature rebellion. The contradiction is all in your small and contracting mind, frosbel.

And in your large and confused mind you are going around in twists of delusions and unable to come to a knowledge of the truth. Jokes apart as per my last reply, there remains a rest for the people of God to join in this rest that God has already achieved; and when did God achieve this rest ? After the works of creation.

Read that verse you quoted again and calm down before you respond. It says nothing about another rest of God.
"They shall not enter My rest," although His works were finished from the foundation of the world "

How can the people enter into the rest of God if it does not already exist ?

Finally, his works were FINISHED from the foundation of the world. FINISHED !!! Comprehend this Ihedinobi3 ?

So God is not still CREATING , CREATION work has FINISHED. My dictionary says that FINISHED means - "brought to an end; completed."

Likewise what? Did I ever offer an opinion like yours? As I said, I simply interpret the Bible and if the Bible disagrees with my interpretation then I am wrong. But you are God, aren't you? Your opinions are eternal decrees that cannot ever be faulted. Except that that is completely untrue.

Even when the bible agrees with your interpretation when you are 'right', it disagrees with another Christian's interpretations when he/she is 'wrong'. So who is right ?

Clowns !!

Lotechi:
I'm just against humans suffering.
I'm pro life. But I still believe that parents should have enough to take care of any life being created.

Same here... However, abortion is rather an inhumane way of ensuring that. I think "pre-pregnancy" birth control methods are better, morally...

1. Where is this error you speak of, frosbel? It's not in your imagination, is it?

2. Many of those denominations, if not all of them, are just like you: trying with all their might to make the Bible say something it simply doesn't.

3. Why would you ever admit that you lied? When did you find honor a desirable thing to have?

4. If anyone claims that the constitution of Nigeria tells him to waylay girls in shady corners and rape them, we don't say that the constitution is interpreted to suit him, do we? We check to see if it actually says such a thing and deal with him appropriately if it doesn't. But liars like you believe that anything (especially the Bible) can be made to be what it is not if you are determined enough for it to suit your wishes.

5. LOL.

6. Oh no. Seriously, talking with you was comic relief. I'm winding down though, starting to get back into ranks again. So, thanks for making me laugh?

7. Frosbel, it's a good thing I wasn't paid to teach you anything. Half the time I would be laughing my eyes out and the other half I'd be tearing out my hair. How can someone say some of the things you say? God finished creation on the sixth day and rested on the seventh. It's right there in Genesis. But obviously, the whole thing with the days was deliberate to teach believers about God's Eternal Plan for human history with each day representing a thousand years of human history. So, His rest on the seventh day was also to teach us of this rest that Paul is speaking of. The parallel here too is critical since just as God finished creation on the sixth day, the war will be ended at the close of the sixth millennium opening a millennium of rest from the war for all the faithful who believed in Christ before the Second Advent. So, God's rest from creation was critical to teach that. He did cease. But Jesus said later that He was still working and He obviously has been since He has never stopped ruling Creation since He made it.

8. If the Bible agrees with one interpretation, then it is correct. If it disagrees with another, then that one is wrong. You are really something, frosbel.

Godskidk:

Same here... However, abortion is rather an inhumane way of ensuring that. I think "pre-pregnancy" birth control methods are better, morally...

yea sure.......but what happens when one mistakenly gets pregnant and knows that the child's wellbeing is not in the very least guaranteed? Having in mind that it takes about 20 to 24 weeks for a complete human to form in the womb.

Lotechi:
yea sure.......but what happens when one mistakenly gets pregnant and knows that the child's wellbeing is not in the very least guaranteed? Having in mind that it takes about 20 to 24 weeks for a complete human to form in the womb.

Mistakenly gets pregnant? You walk the walk... It's wrong to deny it a chance just because you think it's wellbeing isn't guaranteed...

Godskidk:

Mistakenly gets pregnant? You walk the walk... It's wrong to deny it a chance just because you think it's wellbeing isn't guaranteed...

we have about 90 million people living in abject poverty in Nigeria alone. Have you ever thought of the kind of agony they go through an a daily basis?? I'm always in tears because of my inability to cater for people that need the very basic necessities of life.