9ijaMan:

So when I sign an agreement with someone and he reneges, I have no case against him simply because Nigerian constitution. You should note that the party constitution is not in anyway against the constitution of Nigeria. Secondly, I do not think the other zones were silly or blind when they all agreed to the constitution. They all signed it, agreed on it and as such is binding on them all. As long as the PDP constitution is not changed, it is sacrosanct on every single buffoon who contest under the umbrella of the party.

Yes, I'll give an example (however nobody signed anything, otherwise where's the document?).
Say two people sign a pact rob a third person and when one pulls out, the other takes him to a court governed by the federal constitution. What do you think will happen, since the federal contitutions dictate on robbery is superior to the criminals pact to rob?

Beaf:

Thanks for that, it is precisely what I told you. Odili lost out in a battle, he didn't withdraw; what your article doesn't say is that E.K. Clark was his adversary.

Precisely?
Read the full story,
(1) no mention was made of Clark or any militant
(2) If he lost out in a battle why was he (a strong personality) being compensated with VP to a sick president?
His name was already on the acceptance speech
Read the full story

The meaning is that Obj agreed to zone the presidency to the North, but his mind was not there - he handed to a weak candidate
Beaf, we need to play fair in this discussion - that is not too much to ask

Beaf:

Yes, I'll give an example (however nobody signed anything, otherwise where's the document?).
Say two people sign a pact rob a third person and when one pulls out, the other takes him to a court governed by the federal constitution. What do you think will happen, since the federal contitutions dictate on robbery is superior to the criminals pact to rob?

criminality is against the law. Zoning isn't. We have Federal Character entrenched in Nigerian laws. Come up with somthing better as an example. Zoning is not a criminal act!

truly:


The meaning is that Obj agreed to zone the presidency to the North, but his mind was not there - he handed to a weak candidate
Beaf, we need to play fair in this discussion - that is not too much to ask

That's a lot to ask from Beaf!

9ijaMan:

criminality is against the law. Zoning isn't. We have Federal Character entrenched in Nigerian laws. Come up with somthing better as an example. Zoning is not a criminal act!

Aha! We are coming closer now.
The Nigerian constitution says that, nobody should be deprived of the right to run for President based on ethnicity, region, religion or gender. That makes zoning at the Presidential level a crime.

ARTICLE 2

SUPREMACY OF THE PARTY CONSTITUTION

Subject to the provisions of the Constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, this Constitution shall be supreme and its provisions shall have binding force on all members and organs of the party.

I hope you know that GJ has never dared to say he will not respect the constitution of his party
He has never said it contains any illegal article
he actually pledged to respect it
And if it is so patently illegal, how come it has not been expunged or challenged

Beaf:

Aha! We are coming closer now.
The Nigerian constitution says that, nobody should be deprived of the right to run for President based on ethnicity, region, religion or gender. That makes zoning at the Presidential level a crime.

How does saying that we agree that it is my turn now
and your turn later a crime?
esp when you know that that is the only way a man from Ogbia can actually have a shot at the presidency so desired by the constitution
without zoning it is very likely that nobody from Otuoke will ever get there again

@ Those saying that Jonathan description of zoning is wrong, 2 Points he raised is not being addressed by you guys,

1, Is zoning between North and South or Between the 6 Geo Political zones?;;

2, Is the Presidency zoned before the primaries??  What are the evidences of this?? because Jonathan's explanation seems to be based on the evidence of what had happened in the past, atleast 2003; and 2007 presidential primaries.

truly:

Precisely?
Read the full story,
(1) no mention was made of Clark or any militant
(2) If he lost out in a battle why was he (a strong personality) being compensated with VP to a sick president?
His name was already on the acceptance speech
Read the full story

The meaning is that Obj agreed to zone the presidency to the North, but his mind was not there - he handed to a weak candidate
Beaf, we need to play fair in this discussion - that is not too much to ask

If the bolded is the case, then Obj simply looked for the governor with the heaviest health burden. It wouldn't have mattered whether he hailed from North or South.

E.K. Clark was never mentioned, because he is a power broker, not a contestant. Odili chose to fight an ill-advised war of attrition with him for supremacy in the ND and Odili really lost.

truly:

How does saying that we agree that it is my turn now
and your turn later a crime?
esp when you know that that is the only way a man from Ogbia can actually have a shot at the presidency so desired by the constitution
without zoning it is very likely that nobody from Otuoke will ever get there again

That is totally untrue. Zoning will only make minorities a plaything of the major ethnicities.
Jonathan is in power, not because of zoning, but because Yar Adua (RIP) lost his life.

Beaf:

If the bolded is the case, then Obj simply looked for the governor with the heaviest health burden. It wouldn't have mattered whether he hailed from North or South.

E.K. Clark was never mentioned, because he is a power broker, not a contestant. Odili chose to fight an ill-advised war of attrition with him for supremacy in the ND and Odili really lost.

Whick Clark - the one that for very long maintained that Uduaghan was ALLEGED to have won an election
If he was so powerful, why could he not stop an 'ordinary' governor from imposing his candidate?
If Odili lost out, why was earmarked for a position so dangerously close to the presidency?
The one from the North with heaviest health burden - why did Obj just allot to the South straightaway

Beaf:

That is totally untrue. Zoning will only make minorities a plaything of the major ethnicities.
Jonathan is in power, not because of zoning, but because Yar Adua (RIP) lost his life.

Brother, dont dismiss yesterday because today has come. The mistakes of yesterday might reoccur in tommorow. Jonathan is in Power today becos of zoning. Stop giving us the devil's philosohpy. We are all aware that he took the seat after Yaradua(RIP). But didnt Yaradua become the president by zoning??

Beaf:

That is totally untrue. Zoning will only make minorities a plaything of the major ethnicities.
Jonathan is in power, not because of zoning, but because Yar Adua (RIP) lost his life.

Why not true?
You think that without zoning, they will now go to one corner of Ogbia to fish out somebody who has not distinguished himself in a very exceptional manner to be president
If you a from a minority group, any contest strictly based on national merit puts you at a disadvantage
You have to be miles ahead of people from the majority groups
But with zoning, you only need to be first among your fellow compatriots from the minority group to which it has been zoned

truly:

Whick Clark - the one that for very long maintained that Uduaghan was ALLEGED to have won an election
If he was so powerful, why could he not stop an 'ordinary' governor from imposing his candidate?
If Odili lost out, why was earmarked for a position so dangerously close to the presidency?
The one from the North with heaviest health burden - why could he not have taken it to the South straightaway

You really need to know the full background of Odili, Ateke Tom, Soboma George and Atiku. Once you've learnt these things, you'll come to understand what I'm saying.

Talking about Uduaghan, there has always been serious tension between the Ibori camp and E.K. Clark (for exactly the same reason there was tension with Odili).

jabbok:

Brother, dont dismiss yesterday because today has come. The mistakes of yesterday might reoccur in tommorow. Jonathan is in Power today becos of zoning. Stop giving us the devil's philosohpy. We are all aware that he took the seat after Yaradua(RIP). But didnt Yaradua become the president by zoning??

truly:

Why not true?
You think that without zoning, they will now go to one corner of Ogbia to fish out somebody who has not distinguished himself in a very exceptional manner to be president
If you a from a minority group, any contest strictly based on national merit puts you at a disadvantage
You have to be miles ahead of people from the majority groups
But with zoning, you only need to be first among your fellow compatriots from the minority group to which it has been zoned

The only reason anybody was chosen from the SS is because of the threat MEND was posing at the time. The army was sent in several times, yet there was no respite, so Obj chose to pacify the people with a ceremonial position. Nobody really cared about Ogbia or the people there; zoning can only benefit majority ethnicities, but what Nigeria needs, is to move away from tribal politics and choose leaders based on potential and merit.

Beaf:

You really need to know the full background of Odili, Ateke Tom, Soboma George and Atiku. Once you've learnt these things, you'll come to understand what I'm saying.

Talking about Uduaghan, there has always been serious tension between the Ibori camp and E.K. Clark (for exactly the same reason there was tension with Odili).

Clark came out worse againsty the two of them
Where is the power?

Beaf:

The only reason anybody was chosen from the SS is because of the threat MEND was posing at the time. The army was sent in several times, yet there was no respite, so Obj chose to pacify the people with a ceremonial position. Nobody really cared about Ogbia or the people there; zoning can only benefit majority ethnicities, but what Nigeria needs, is to move away from tribal politics and choose leaders based on potential and merit.

You think that Gj is the best candidate in terms of merit now
He is better than DuKe, Utomi?
This is confining it to SS

Merit wise, that ambition is dead as dodo
But using the power of incumbency, he can armtwist people

truly:

Clark came out worse againsty the two of them
Where is the power?

For the past decade or so, E. K. Clark has led the ND Elders which includes several super heavyweights (e.g. Olorogun Michael Ibru).
For good or bad, the man cannot be overlooked.

Beaf:

For the past decade or so, E. K. Clark has led the ND Elders which includes several super heavyweights (e.g. Olorogun Michael Ibru).
For good or bad, the man cannot be overlooked.

On the internet
Let him stop anybody in reality

truly:

You think that Gj is the best candidate in terms of merit now
He is better than DuKe, Utomi?
This is confining it to SS

Merit wise, that ambition is dead as dodo
But using the power of incumbency, he can armtwist people

The thing is that neither Duke nor Utomi is a PDP member (both even pale before Gamaliel Onosode). Compared to the PDP lot, GEJ is indeed the best by a long shot. If the core Northern PDP elite had been serious about merit, they would have drafted in Ribadu who is Fulani and a completely national figure that like GEJ, is relatively youthful and untainted by corruption; then all this zoning talk wouldn't have mattered.

If there is no zoning in the PDP why are there no CREDIBLE CANDIDATES from the South West? and non from the South East? an only GEJ from the South South? (from the PDP, I mean). My guess is that they feel and know it is not their turn yet. The wahala to come is better imagine. Those of us wishing the zoning thing away should have a rethink.

Boboribo:

If there is no zoning in the PDP why are there no CREDIBLE CANDIDATES from the South West? and non from the South East? an only GEJ from the South South? (from the PDP, I mean). My guess is that they feel and know it is not their turn yet. The wahala to come is better imagine. Those of us wishing the zoning thing away should have a rethink.

There will even be more problems in future if we continue a zoing policy without clear time frames on who should take turns when.

So I say let it die a natural death now since no one considered it necessary to have it in the electoral act.

i guess one can say gej's argument is legally sound but morally bankrupt

a variant on 'i did not have sexual relations with that woman'

i guess the writers of the pdp constitution deliberately left that section vague because a more concrete definition of zoning would have led to objections and marginalization grouses

There will even be more problems in future if we continue a zoing policy without clear time frames on who should take turns when.

So I say let it die a natural death now since no one considered it necessary to have it in the electoral act.

Please I need someone to tell me why NO CREDIBLE CANDIDATE from the South West, South East and South South has shown interest (IN THE PDP)

, the party shall adhere to the policy of rotation and zoning of party n public elective offices and it shall be endorsed by the appropriate executives committee at all levels

Zoning or on zoning it tells how ingrate Nigerians are. At least if not 4 anything, but 4 d fact that our asss have been saved from struggling for fuel at the filing station. What our past MUROONS so called leaders including the vampire styled IBB, couldn't achieve for years, even the Crying Freeman Yara Adua had to lament on the role of cabal frustrating his effort in the oil sector but to no avail, despite all the funds allocated to the sector. Thank God 4 GEJ 4 proving to them within a period of 4 months that they r bunches of ITT -International Thief Thief raised to power ten, yet majority still dont see reasons why GEJ should b given a chance. Screw all d NON-supporters of GEJ. There'r all enemies of progress. These category of people'll still find fault even if Christ wants to rule Nigeria. Its my 1st post in this forum, i hate to sound this way but i'm happy to drop it like am HOT [about d issue].

oyb:

i guess one can say gej's argument is legally sound but morally bankrupt

a variant on 'i did not have sexual relations with that woman'

i guess the writers of the pdp constitution deliberately left that section vague because a more concrete definition of zoning would have led to objections and marginalization grouses

Your turn will be here shortly!
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-521407.128.html#msg6840441

Goodluck wil emerge as the president come 2011.

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See as PDP is dragging the whole nation into state of confusion with their madness of zoning agreement. A party who can not even interpret their own constitution, out of greediness {sigh}. Anyone in the party can interpret their constitution to favour his/her selfish ambition. Yet Nigerians still believe there is any credibility left in PDP.

The truth remains that there is zoning principles in PDP constitution, but the section did not further specify to which offices this can be applied to, or which time it should be applied before or after election. If not for sentiments i don't know how the blind supporters can say  there is any sense in GEJ's claim which make every other person in PDP wrong. It is time we stop seeing this PDP constitutional problem as a Nigerian problem and any PDP member who is using the unity of Nigeria to make claim out of this conflict is nothing but a hypocrite. We are not running one party system in Nigeria, so for someone to say PDP zoning agreement will affect credible election in Nigeria is jst an evidence that PDP will never conduct any free and fair election. For example, are we saying if PDP could not present a candidate for 2011 poll becoz of their own constitutional crises, that there wont be an election, or we can't vote in another candidate from another party?

If not for foolishness tell me how anyone could argue that an agreement made by jst one party will affect the general election which many parties Will be involve. Are we the voters even supposed to be concerned abt how PDP chooses their flagbearer.  If we have any thing like credible election in Nigeria why would the whole Nation be worried abt who ever emerges from PDP out of their stupid zoning madness. If we are sure of free and fair election in 2011, PDP can go to hell with their zoning madness. All we need to be concerned abt is to vote in a credible person irrespective of his party, tribe or zone.

Instead of these criminals to accept there is something wrong with their constitution and work together to rectify the problem, they are individually making use of the problem to their favour.
It is time we should vote PDP out of power with their confusion.

these northern presidential candidates are scared of GEJ,thats y they are fighting for zoning.MAN UP N CONTEST PLS, go get that seat for us GEJ n make us proud, pls vote y'all.

This is a beautiful argument Mr Jonathan but please show more decisiveness and leadership in dealing with the hot spots and problems of the country. Aba is boiling and people are killing themselves in Ibadan. The security forces of the country are under the control of Mr President!

Are we going to eat arguments or survive by this unending and annoying zoning debacle

This madness about PDP zoning arrangement is ludicrous to say the least.
The question we should ask ourself is: What happens if after an 8 years tenure of a zoned PDP president, Nigerians decide to vote in the next election for another party's  candidate that has so much appeal and qualifications even if he is from the same zone as the out-going PDP president? I mean GEJ's explanation looks more like the reasonable line for PDP to follow except of course, the party is sure (sic) they will always be successful in their rigging. Abeg, Nairalanders should be faithful in their prayers that we want the best for the country irrespective of zones, religion or tribe. What do we stand to gain if the "zoned president" from our zone ends up looting our treasury and mortgage our collective future and those of our unborn generations. NIGERIANS! BE WISE!!!