Nihilist:


No doubt he put the team together, but this was mainly a team of already existing world class talent. Dayo is mentioning Hleb and Caeceres. How many games did they play?

Sebod, the talent was already on ground, the talent already knew try Barca way. Pep just happened to be there at the time.

Bar Tata, Pep's successors have been Barca insiders. One could argue that Any single one of them could have been Pep.

I mean look at Donkey Enrique, sacked from 2 clubs, all of a sudden winning back to back trophies in 2 seasons.

Come on mehn...

The talents were already on ground admittedly, now let's look at the talents on ground and analyse them.
If another coach, let's say Mou had taken over the team then;
1. Xavi( a talent) who was already on his way out would have been allowed to go.
2. Iniesta( a talent) who was always dragging a spot with Dinho, Deco, edmilson and co would probably have been let go too to pave way for a bigger player.
3. No one would have even heard of Sergio Busquest(a talent) till date.
4. Pique wouldn't have been bought and,
5. Messi(a talent) would have remained a winger producing 20-25 goals per season.
There would have been no talents to make reference to today.
With the team giving to Mou, Barca would have won some tittles with no particular style. Barca would just be there as just another club that won titles.
The fact that we now have a style the world is is praising and trying to emulate today in itself makes Pep a genius.
He already made the team and the talents strong, a foundation which other coaches built/ are building on.

afrodoc2:

Let me simplify Nihilist point.
All these FAILURES as managers come to Barca and suddenly start winning titles and they go elsewhere and continue as failures
This makes us believe that you do not have to be a genius to be extra successful in Barca. U only have to be good or great.
IF FAILURES CAN BECOME SUCCESSFUL IN BARCA THEN ANYONE CAN

My amiable doctor.

I wish I could send you a crate of Pink Lady and alligator pepper.

So succinct.

raumdeuter:


Chelsea finished second in 04, made the CL semi On top of that the

Next season got Mourinho(A CL winning coach) spent the most money in Europe bought Drogba(one of the best strikers in Europe) bought carvalho, Bought Cech, Paolo Ferreira, Arjen Robben

Chelsea were spending money and no one in Europe could match them

So now spending money or signing players is now your criteria or determinant in achieving success? Just listen to yourself. You are the same dude who goes about dissing EPL clubs for spending so much with little to show for it and now you are using that same premise conversely to argue that Chelsea were the strongest then because no one could match them financially.
I'm not surprised this is coming from you. The hypocrisy left unchecked in your past is always coming to hurt you.

Leo messi "pep immediately transmitted an enormous amount of pride in our work, ambition and hunger .he won our confidence from the first day because we could see that things can be done correctly"


yet, some people want us to believe he was just there as a passenger and happen to be there at the time.....soro niyen

Nihilist:
Only carvalho was really 'known' from Portos victory the year before

Drogba one of the best strikers in Europe

You might as well say Dado Prso was the world best.

Egbon you can lie for Africa

You are the one trying your best to dumb down this discussion

Before Chelsea, Drogba was Ligue 1 player of the year, Onze Dor(A French magazine) winner of 2004 and scored 30 goals in the season

Was Ferreira too unknown? Robben who Man utd and Chelsea fought over was unknown, Cech best keeper of French league unknown

Bros you are approaching the level of some people wey we no suppose mention abi shey na Friday night whiskey ni?

GBR1:

So now spending money or signing players is now your criteria or determinant in achieving success? Just listen to yourself. You are the same dude who goes about dissing EPL clubs for spending so much with little to show for it and now you are using that same premise conversely to argue that Chelsea were the strongest then because no one could match them financially.
I'm not surprised this is coming from you. The hypocrisy left unchecked in your past is always coming to hurt you.

Ok.

Nihilist:


My amiable doctor.

I wish I could send you a crate of Pink Lady and alligator pepper.

So succinct.

I have started abstaining from alcohol, I won't mind a spicy lady wearing pink negligee though

Nihilist, if the likes of Tata, Enrique had taken over from Rijkaard, do you think they would have done what pep did with that team?

Raumdeuter, we both know how this is gonna end up if you keep this up. I have told you already, you are in no position to judge me and you would only get yourself into a mess. I would ignore your irrelevant posts with no substance though.

raumdeuter:


You are the one trying your best to dumb down this discussion

Before Chelsea, Drogba was Ligue 1 player of the year, Onze Dor(A French magazine) winner of 2004 and scored 30 goals in the season

Was Ferreira too unknown? Robben who Man utd and Chelsea fought over was unknown, Cech best keeper of French league unknown

Bros you are approaching the level of some people wey we no suppose mention abi shey na Friday night whiskey ni?

Depending on how far down you are willing to go. In 2004 after 1 or 2 good seasons in football drogba was surely not top 5 amongst strikers in Europe

GBR1:
Raumdeter, we both know how this is gonna end up if you keep this up. I have told you already, you are in no position to judge me and you would only get yourself into a mess. I would ignore your irrelevant posts with no substance though.

Guy na by force? abeg free me. dmcdad described you properly.

dmcdad:

I guess your obsession with DK is the cause of this. Hence, your thinking.

dmcdad:


So, I ain't got any ish with you bruv. But then, this is my observation about you, and i hope you take it in good faith. You are so obsessed with raumdeter that anyone who subscribes to his idea or argument at any point becomes his so-called 'follow-follow'

In the last 24hrs you have been described as above, Why dont you just get off my trail and go play somewhere I'm busy

afrodoc2:

Let me simplify Nihilist point.
All these FAILURES as managers come to Barca and suddenly start winning titles and they go elsewhere and continue as failures
This makes us believe that you do not have to be a genius to be extra successful in Barca. U only have to be good or great.
IF FAILURES CAN BECOME SUCCESSFUL IN BARCA THEN ANYONE CAN

While those that came to Barca after Pep and won tittles could be termed any name, the guy that laid the foundation to make things easy for them must be a genius. He got the best out of the guys, built a lasting legacy that became the benchmark of footie while those that came after him have not been able to replicate his feat.

sebod:

While those that came to Barca after Pep and won tittles could be termed any name, the guy that laid the foundation to make things easy for them must be a genius. He got the best out of the guys, built a lasting legacy that became the benchmark of footie while those that came after him have not been able to replicate his feat.

It seems you are unaware that Rijkaard one of the greatest failures of them was there before Pep. If you want to talk about foundation he did the laying

afrodoc2:
Depending on how far down you are willing to go. In 2004 after 1 or 2 good seasons in football drogba was surely not top 5 amongst strikers in Europe

You mean a striker who was bought for over 25M by Chelsea in 2004. Harry Kane has also had one or 2 seasons. if you take out messi and Ronaldo(WHo are freaks of nature), Would he be or not be among the top 5 strikers in Europe currently?

raumdeuter:


You mean a striker who was bought for over 25M by Chelsea in 2004. Harry Kane has also had one or 2 seasons. if you take out messi and Ronaldo(WHo are freaks of nature), Would he be or not be among the top 5 strikers in Europe?

As at 2004 better strikers than Drogba off the top of my head included Ronaldo, Shevchenko, Ruud Van Nistelrooy, Roy Makaay, Thierry Henry.
If I think longer more names will crop up

afrodoc2:


It seems you are unaware that Rijkaard one of the greatest failures of them was there before Pep. If you want to talk about foundation he did the laying

Yes I am aware Rijkaard was there before Pep, but I won't agree he did any laying.
Rijkaard had a team that had Dinho, Eto and Deco as the brain behind the team while Pep had Xavi, Iniesta, Busi and Messi as his pillars. Rijkaard had Thuram, Puyol, Zambrota, Oleguer and co as his defenders while Pep had Abidal, pique, Puyol, Alves and co as his.
Rijkaard never did any laying as he handed over a team dead in confidence to Pep.

raumdeuter:


You are the one trying your best to dumb down this discussion

Before Chelsea, Drogba was Ligue 1 player of the year, Onze Dor(A French magazine) winner of 2004 and scored 30 goals in the season

Was Ferreira too unknown? Robben who Man utd and Chelsea fought over was unknown, Cech best keeper of French league unknown

Bros you are approaching the level of some people wey we no suppose mention abi shey na Friday night whiskey ni?

Come on Bros.

Robben was just a young talent.

Cech came from.a club in relegation zone in France. Drogba, Robben and Cech made their name in England abeg. They were relatively unknown before then

Nihilist:
Come on Bros.
Robben was just a young talent.
Cech came from.a club in relegation zone in France. Drogba, Robben and Cech made their name in England abeg. They were relatively unknown before then

He was such a talent and we saw his exploits in Euro 2004, he was that much a talent that Fergie and Chelsea had to fight over.

Drogba French player of the year, Cech was a Keeper of the year in France, Carvalho and Ferreira just won the CL also with Porto, Kezman(Top scorer from Dutch league) plus Robben in one season added to the team that made the CL semi and finished second in the league were not favourite to win the EPL?

raumdeuter:


Guy na by force? abeg free me. dmcdad described you properly.

Wow. are you really begging? Please spare me your capitulation. This a forum, a public one at that and i reserve the right to address any post i wish to especially when it's from you. Dmcdad made a good observation but the conclusion was far off. It's true i have been replying your posts and it's not due to an obsession with you or anything but because of the content of these posts of yours. When you stop posting lies as facts, shape shifting and stop being so hypocritical, there would be less posts for me to address. Do this or stop posting at all, i don't care but i would keep on doing the right thing regardless.

In the last 24hrs you have been described as above, Why dont you just get off my trail and go play somewhere I'm busy

In those hours you came on the United thread posting complete thrash about United's greatest manager ever and you expected me to let you go just like that and not reply you?
What has Pep even achieved with you guys compared to what Fergie did with United but currently you're making so many posts in a short period to defend him and you expected me not to do same earlier?
I believe your hypocrisy would end soon but obviously it's not today.

Then you add Samuel Etoo, Fernando Torres, Totti. DD might just squeeze into top 10

GBR1:

Wow. are you really begging? Please spare me your capitulation. This a forum, a public one at that and i reserve the right to address any post i wish to especially when it's from you. Dmcdad made a good observation but the conclusion was far off. It's true i have been replying your posts and it's not due to an obsession with you or anything but because of the content of these posts of yours. When you stop posting lies as facts, shape shifting and stop being so hypocritical, there would be less posts for me to address. Do this or stop posting at all, i don't care but i would keep on doing the right thing regardless.

In those hours you came on the United thread posting complete thrash about United's greatest manager ever and you expected me to let you go just like that and not reply you?
What has Pep even achieved with you guys compared to what Fergie did with United but currently you're making so many posts in a short period to defend him and you expected me not to do same earlier?
I believe your hypocrisy would end soon but obviously it's not today.

Okay You have been noticed. Can you just go play somewhere else. You are obviously out of your depth like I told you go find your intellectual mates

GBR1:

So now spending money or signing players is now your criteria or determinant in achieving success? Just listen to yourself. You are the same dude who goes about dissing EPL clubs for spending so much with little to show for it and now you are using that same premise conversely to argue that Chelsea were the strongest then because no one could match them financially.
I'm not surprised this is coming from you. The hypocrisy left unchecked in your past is always coming to hurt you.

You obviously didn't get the point bro.
Mou got to Chelsea and spent big to bring in proven players, he won some tittles albeit not winning it all, he's termed a genius.

While Pep inherited a poor team who had no confidence left in them after finishing 3rd on the log, sent away the super stars, built a fresh team and won it all in style. He's just a good coach.

afrodoc2:
Then you add Samuel Etoo, Fernando Torres, Totti. DD might just squeeze into top 10

How are Samuel Etoo Torres better?

raumdeuter:


How are Samuel Etoo Torres better?

I mean as at 2004 they were arguably better. Any how you cut it he does not enter the top 5 strikers as at 2004
Ronaldo,Ruud,Henry,Sheva and Makaay were better as at 2004.....u can't argue that

sebod:

You obviously didn't get the point bro.
Mou got to Chelsea and spent big to bring in proven players, he won some tittles albeit not winning it all, he's termed a genius.

While Pep inherited a poor team who had no confidence left in them after finishing 3rd on the log, sent away the super stars, built a fresh team and won it all in style. He's just a good coach.

His time at Chelsea though excellent is not as impressive as what he achieved in Inter or Porto and if he's regarded as a genius, his time at those clubs i mentioned are more likely the reason and he had a relatively low net spend at those clubs than Chelsea so i got the point well bro.

Pep is not just good but a very good coach. BTW it's not exactly what i'm debating here.

And as at 2004 Etoo was better and over their whole careers I would give Etoo d edge sef

afrodoc2:
And as at 2004 Etoo was better and over their whole careers I would give Etoo d edge sef

Over their whole career Etoo was better but as at 2004 when Etoo was in Mallorca, there was no way he was better than Drogba who dragged Marseille to the UEFA cup final

The crux of the issue is was 2004-2007 Chelsea not the favourite to win the league

raumdeuter:


Over their whole career Etoo was better but as at 2004 when Etoo was in Mallorca, there was no way he was better than Drogba who dragged Marseille to the UEFA cup final

The crux of the issue is was 2004-2007 Chelsea not the favourite to win the league

It's a minor argument anyway but it was that same Mallorca that Etoo led to rod Madrid I think 5-1 dragging the reputation of Roberts Carlos and Helguera in the mud. At that point Etoo was the better striker already, he was banging in goals.

Anyway this has not been about Mou vs Pep to me so I don't see how Chelsea come into it.

The question is how is it that confirmed failures get to the barca job and suddenly become winners and then leave the barca job and become confirmed losers again and you want us to think it is not mainly about the players.
If losers could win titles with barca imagine what a good or great manager would do. Oh wait u don't have to imagine , Pep already showed you what would happen.

afrodoc2:

It's a minor argument anyway but it was that same Mallorca that Etoo led to rod Madrid I think 5-1 dragging the reputation of Roberts Carlos and Helguera in the mud. At that point Etoo was the better striker already, he was banging in goals.

Anyway this has not been about Mou vs Pep to me so I don't see how Chelsea come into it.

The question is how is it that confirmed failures get to the barca job and suddenly become winners and then leave the barca job and become confirmed losers again and you want us to think it is not mainly about the players.
If losers could win titles with barca imagine what a good or great manager would do. Oh wait u don't have to imagine , Pep already showed you what would happen.

I watched Marseille vs Madrid in the CL which Madrid won 4-2 first CL game in the03/04 season and the way Drogba did the Madrid defence too in the mud

How much of a success was martino in Barca or after Barca? What of Villanova?

Enrique took Celta to mid table that is as good as you can get with that and he got better opportunities

Nihilist:


No doubt he put the team together, but this was mainly a team of already existing world class talent. Dayo is mentioning Hleb and Caeceres. How many games did they play?

Sebod, the talent was already on ground, the talent already knew try Barca way. Pep just happened to be there at the time.

Bar Tata, Pep's successors have been Barca insiders. One could argue that Any single one of them could have been Pep.

I mean look at Donkey Enrique, sacked from 2 clubs, all of a sudden winning back to back trophies in 2 seasons.

Come on mehn...

Dude it's quite cool when arguing, we should be factual about it. Enrique wasn't sacked by two clubs. He made Celta vigo a mid table team while playing attractive football. This made Roma appoint him. He was sacked at Roma cos of poor results but what happened there could have happened to any coach especially a rookie. He consistently benched there legend (Totti). This made him lose the dressing room.

No coach has won a CL in style like Enrique did last season. He defeated the Champions of England, Cyprus, Holland, Italy, France. Germany. You can't downplay this.

raumdeuter:


He was such a talent and we saw his exploits in Euro 2004, he was that much a talent that Fergie and Chelsea had to fight over.

Drogba French player of the year, Cech was a Keeper of the year in France, Carvalho and Ferreira just won the CL also with Porto, Kezman(Top scorer from Dutch league) plus Robben in one season added to the team that made the CL semi and finished second in the league were not favourite to win the EPL?

no,
arsenal was the chairman then.

Next Tuesday