Before I begin to lament about Goetze's departure

@Raumdeuter

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/unarmed-care-worker-charles-kinsey-shot-by-us-police-while-calming-autistic-patient-miami-gun-latest-a7148216.html

The guy is a behavioral therapist, unarmed, lying down with both arms in the air. Still got shot. He wasn't cooperating enough?

page 500...i was here

A40:
Before I begin to lament about Goetze's departure
@Rumdeuter
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/unarmed-care-worker-charles-kinsey-shot-by-us-police-while-calming-autistic-patient-miami-gun-latest-a7148216.html

The guy is a behavioral therapist, unarmed, lying down with both arms in the air. Still got shot. He wasn't cooperating enough?

I dont know the details of this story but Policemen are not perfect like everyone, We always try to assume they are of a special breed and cant make mistakes or panic

The narrative most are pursuing is that blacks are targetted but the truth is a lot of white guys get shot too by police

News of white guys, hispanics shot dont make the news with such sensation like the one of black men
below are some news

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/06/us/seneca-teen-dead-police-shooting/

This young 6yr old autistic white kid was shot and killed by police while strapped to his car seat.

when would we have a protest on that? Guess what? He was shot by black officers both who are out of jail and awaiting trials. Assuming the case was the other way round, How many riots would we be seeing in the country. Or do you believe the 2 black cops intentionally profiled and shot this white boy?

raumdeuter:


I dont know the details of this story but Policemen are not perfect like everyone, We always try to assume they are of a special breed and cant make mistakes or panic

The narrative most are pursuing is that blacks are targetted but the truth is a lot of white guys get shot too by police

News of white guys, hispanics shot dont make the news with such sensation like the one of black men
below are some news

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/06/us/seneca-teen-dead-police-shooting/

This young 6yr old autistic white kid was shot and killed by police while strapped to his car seat.

when would we have a protest on that? Guess what? He was shot by black officers both who are out of jail and awaiting trials. Assuming the case was the other way round, How many riots would we be seeing in the country. Or do you believe the 2 black cops intentionally profiled and shot this white boy?

These mistakes are too expensive and explain why cops are despised the world over. The stakes are too high for the sheer carelessness these guys display.

Each race has a right to protest for any unjust killing. However we know the ratio of blacks that get killed compared to other races so if black voices are the loudest then it is not coincidental.

Shey you heard what the Minnesota Governor said

I'm curious as to what brought about panic from an unarmed black man lying on the ground with his hands up? What do I have to do as a black man to not get shot if I'm stopped by the police since my cooperation is no longer a guarantee. Charles was fortunate to survive and asked the askari why he was shot. Officer said "I don't know"

This kind of unprofessionalism and cluelessness is unacceptable. If you are scared to do the job why not resign and go and find another job to do instead of sending families into grief

This Goetze sale dey pain me gaga oo. Not too much to analyze that hasn't already been broken down. Wish he rediscovers his form and belief at Dortmund. Would always respect him for the class and dignity he displayed especially in the final season.

A40:
These mistakes are too expensive and explain why cops are despised the world over. The stakes are too high for the sheer carelessness these guys display.

Each race has a right to protest for any unjust killing. However we know the ratio of blacks that get killed compared to other races so if black voices are the loudest then it is not coincidental.

Shey you heard what the Minnesota Governor said

I'm curious as to what brought about panic from an unarmed black man lying on the ground with his hands up? What do I have to do as a black man to not get shot if I'm stopped by the police since my cooperation is no longer a guarantee. Charles was fortunate to survive and asked the askari why he was shot. Officer said "I don't know"

People despise cops because they are there to maintain order, Human naturally are prefer disorder until they are personally affected(If there is traffic I would prefer to be the only one taking one-way, but if I see others taking it and not me, I would like the police to arrest the offenders). Most people dont like teachers who enforces order, juniors dont like seniors, Most children dont like their strict parents Nigerians dont like Police but hardly do you see Nigerians trying actively to kill them or promoting cop-killing cultures, People in EUrope dont like cops too but dont actively promote cop killing.

Blacks are more on the receiving end because of the breakdown of the black family structure and this promote crime, A well dressed black lady is more likely to get robbed in a black neighborhood than in a white neighborhood in America. If I give you an opportunity to live in South Chicago(predominantly black) or a predominantly white neighborhood in the same Chicago, you would probably choose the latter. there is a reason why even successful blacks move away from majorly black neighborhoods. Blaming police is just a cop out when you I and most people fear black neighborhoods. If I give you a flat fully paid in Compton, you probably would not take it

In Chicago for example, 70% of homicides victims are blacks and 85% of the killers are blacks too. Is this also a case of blacks hating blacks?

There is something in the Black community that has caused a breakdown of order generally why violence and crime is prevalent but we rather prefer to pick on the few occurrence involving police every time

Some years back I heard A black 9yr old kid Tyshawn Lee was killed by another black man seeking to hurt his father in a a gang related offence. I didnt see anyone getting out to protest the death of this young black boy, If he was shot by a white cop, the case would be different.

The Miami guys case, the policeman probably made a mistake, just like the black cop who killed the white kid. Mistakes happen in this line of work, Doctors make mistakes with human lives, Soldiers do, Cops do. not all cases are because of racial hate. Black police in Osogbo, Enugu, Katsina kill innocent black people in their line of work. Are they also being racists?

Lying down and raising your hand reduces the chance of getting shot by police not entirely eliminates the chances. There might still be mistakes made

This kind of unprofessionalism and cluelessness is unacceptable. If you are scared to do the job why not resign and go and find another job to do instead of sending families into grief

The Dallas police chief, a black man told protesters you feel white cops are unnecessarily targeting you, “Become a part of that solution,” Brown said. “Serve your communities. Don’t be a part of the problem. We’re hiring. We’re hiring. Get off that protest line and put an application in. We’ll put you in your neighborhood and we will help you resolve some of the problems you’re protesting about.”

Don't just join the line of protesters come and join the police force and we would send you to your black neighborhoods. [size=16pt]Immediately people started dispersing[/size].

Even some black cops admitted they fear for their lives when patrolling black neighborhood. A black cop who grew up in South chicago and was profiled by cops, he also joined the police dept and he said he also profiles black males because of his experience in law enforcement

Goetze going back to Dortmund. Pity things didn't work out at Bayern but i feel he could have given more. Wish him the best at BVB and i hope Renato Sanches is watching and learning from all this. FC Bayern is no place for slackers and weak-minded players.

A40:

These mistakes are too expensive and explain why cops are despised the world over. The stakes are too high for the sheer carelessness these guys display.

Each race has a right to protest for any unjust killing. However we know the ratio of blacks that get killed compared to other races so if black voices are the loudest then it is not coincidental.

Shey you heard what the Minnesota Governor said

I'm curious as to what brought about panic from an unarmed black man lying on the ground with his hands up? What do I have to do as a black man to not get shot if I'm stopped by the police since my cooperation is no longer a guarantee. Charles was fortunate to survive and asked the askari why he was shot. Officer said "I don't know"

This kind of unprofessionalism and cluelessness is unacceptable. If you are scared to do the job why not resign and go and find another job to do instead of sending families into grief

The annoying thing about this particular case is that the police claimed that they mistook the toy truck for a gun.

The police ordered both the autistic white man and his black carer to lie down.

The black guy lies down with his hands up explaining the situation.

The white guy refuses to lie down and continues to sit up.

The black guy gets shot because thr toy truck looked like a gun.

It was the white guy that was playing with the truck.

Speaking to reporters from his hospital bed after he was shot, Mr Kinsey told WSVN TV: “I’m going to the ground, just like this with my hands up. And I’m laying down here just like this. And I’m telling him again, ‘Sir, there’s no need for firearms. I’m unarmed, this is an autistic guy. He has a toy truck in his hand.’”

“When he shot me, it was so surprising. It was like a mosquito bite. And when he hit me, I’m like, I still got my hands in the air. I said, ‘You know, I just got shot.’ And I’m saying to them, ‘Sir, why did you shoot me?’ And his words to me, he said, ‘I don’t know.’”

I don't know why I shot you

See yarns

Nihilist:


The annoying thing about this particular case is that the police claimed that they mistook the toy truck for a gun.

The police ordered both the autistic white man and his black carer to lie down.

The black guy lies down with his hands up explaining the situation.

The white guy refuses to lie down and continues to sit up.

The black guy gets shot because thr toy truck looked like a gun.

It was the white guy that was playing with the truck.

Its crazy braaah. I don't even know who is Autistic, the guy with the toy truck or the officer that cannot tell the difference between a toy truck and a gun.

He is either racist or semi-blind and incompetent. I'm leaning towards all 3 The problem is there are too many incompetent and racist people in uniform

raumdeuter:

People despise cops because they are there to maintain order, Human naturally are prefer disorder until they are personally affected(If there is traffic I would prefer to be the only one taking one-way, but if I see others taking it and not me, I would like the police to arrest the offenders). Most people dont like teachers who enforces order, juniors dont like seniors, Most children dont like their strict parents Nigerians dont like Police but hardly do you see Nigerians trying actively to kill them or promoting cop-killing cultures, People in EUrope dont like cops too but dont actively promote cop killing.

Blacks are more on the receiving end because of the breakdown of the black family structure and this promote crime, A well dressed black lady is more likely to get robbed in a black neighborhood than in a white neighborhood in America. If I give you an opportunity to live in South Chicago(predominantly black) or a predominantly white neighborhood in the same Chicago, you would probably choose the latter. there is a reason why even successful blacks move away from majorly black neighborhoods. Blaming police is just a cop out when you I and most people fear black neighborhoods. If I give you a flat fully paid in Compton, you probably would not take it

In Chicago for example, 70% of homicides victims are blacks and 85% of the killers are blacks too. Is this also a case of blacks hating blacks?

There is something in the Black community that has caused a breakdown of order generally why violence and crime is prevalent but we rather prefer to pick on the few occurrence involving police every time

Some years back I heard A black 9yr old kid Tyshawn Lee was killed by another black man seeking to hurt his father in a a gang related offence. I didnt see anyone getting out to protest the death of this young black boy, If he was shot by a white cop, the case would be different.

The Miami guys case, the policeman probably made a mistake, just like the black cop who killed the white kid. Mistakes happen in this line of work, Doctors make mistakes with human lives, Soldiers do, Cops do. not all cases are because of racial hate. Black police in Osogbo, Enugu, Katsina kill innocent black people in their line of work. Are they also being racists?

Lying down and raising your hand reduces the chance of getting shot by police not entirely eliminates the chances. There might still be mistakes made

The Dallas police chief, a black man told protesters you feel white cops are unnecessarily targeting you, “Become a part of that solution,” Brown said. “Serve your communities. Don’t be a part of the problem. We’re hiring. We’re hiring. Get off that protest line and put an application in. We’ll put you in your neighborhood and we will help you resolve some of the problems you’re protesting about.”

Don't just join the line of protesters come and join the police force and we would send you to your black neighborhoods. [size=16pt]Immediately people started dispersing[/size].

Even some black cops admitted they fear for their lives when patrolling black neighborhood. A black cop who grew up in South chicago and was profiled by cops, he also joined the police dept and he said he also profiles black males because of his experience in law enforcement

There's that and there is hatred borne from police that abuse their authority and victimize people. America's scenario is a unique one with many individuals owning armouries hence they have the means to also shoot at officers

The crime rate in black neighborhoods is well known and we are not disputing that. The question is why do we have black people still getting killed or shot in areas that are not necessarily hubs for violent crime (Minnesota, Staten Island)

The police is supposed to be part of the solution, instead they have become a big part of the problem.

If a man is unarmed, lying down with his hands in the air and there is still a chance he gets shot then what is the point of cooperating with the officer. Might as well be strapped and give yourself a shot at survival

The mistake is an egregious and unpardonable one and is a disgrace to law enforcement. An officer that cannot tell the difference between a toy truck and a gun is worse than a quack doctor.

Nihilist:
Speaking to reporters from his hospital bed after he was shot, Mr Kinsey told WSVN TV: “I’m going to the ground, just like this with my hands up. And I’m laying down here just like this. And I’m telling him again, ‘Sir, there’s no need for firearms. I’m unarmed, this is an autistic guy. He has a toy truck in his hand.’”

“When he shot me, it was so surprising. It was like a mosquito bite. And when he hit me, I’m like, I still got my hands in the air. I said, ‘You know, I just got shot.’ And I’m saying to them, ‘Sir, why did you shoot me?’ And his words to me, he said, ‘I don’t know.’”

I don't know why I shot you

See yarns

I found this incident extremely hilarious.

A40:

There's that and there is hatred borne from police that abuse their authority and victimize people. America's scenario is a unique one with many individuals owning armouries hence they have the means to also shoot at officers

The crime rate in black neighborhoods is well known and we are not disputing that. The question is why do we have black people still getting killed or shot in areas that are not necessarily hubs for violent crime (Minnesota, Staten Island)

The police is supposed to be part of the solution, instead they have become a big part of the problem.

If a man is unarmed, lying down with his hands in the air and there is still a chance he gets shot then what is the point of cooperating with the officer. Might as well be strapped and give yourself a shot at survival

The mistake is an egregious and unpardonable one and is a disgrace to law enforcement. An officer that cannot tell the difference between a toy truck and a gun is worse than a quack doctor.

In America, everyone white blacks including policemen fear black men and take extra caution or panic extra when near a black man and its not without cause, when you hear that 70% of murders and violent crimes are committed in your city by blacks who are just 30% of the population you too would worry. Just the same way you would apply extra caution when you see an Arab.

Just today someone shot a Munich mall killing people without any evidence, my mind already tells me its someone Arabian (Middle east or North Africa) so do you expect a German police to approach an Arabian looking man the same way they approach a Ghanaian? Many innocent Arabs would have been profiled and probably killed in Europe as a result, People would panic more around them and you wont say its not unjustified until the terrorist label falls off

When Boko Haram was running riot, people started fearing any man wearing Jalamia and looking like a Northerner and the fears were not without merit,Some lawful Abokkis might have been injured or some even killed by the military in the course of the

The long term solution is to reduce crime rates among blacks so most of the populace dont see us as threats, So the image f a typical young black man is not thta of a violent, criminal and menace to society.


In the short term if you have an encounter with a police, behave yourself to the best of your abilities and hope for the best. These would not entirely stop the shootings but would give law abiding blacks a better chance with the police.

When you fear for your life a toy truck, wallet or anything looks like a gun.

A woman once reported to security an Mediterranean looking man who was solving Maths on paper in a plane as writing terror codes.

After Mutallab, A Nigerian man in a flight who had running stomach and stayed too long in a plane toilet was booted out and harassed

In France Belgium or Germany now, If an arab looking man farts loud he would be fortunate to be alive cos people might think its a bomb.
During Boko Haram normal Aboki just gathering to eat Suya and sugarcane were harrased

Ol boy Dortmund are not playing no games. Though I still think they grossly overpaid for Schuerrle

Aubameyang-Mor-Schuerrle-Goetze-Kagawa-Ramos-Dembele-Reus

In other news who are those oloriburuku people that shot up Munich

A40:
Ol boy Dortmund are not playing no games. Though I still think they grossly overpaid for Schuerrle

Aubameyang-Mor-Schuerrle-Goetze-Kagawa-Ramos-Dembele-Reus

In other news who are those oloriburuku people that shot up Munich

I think Schurrle was an overkill and not worth the money, But I guess its a Tuchel transfer since they worked together in Mainz and management decided to give in to him

Schurrle was seen as a flop in WOlfsburg till February this year and DOrtmund spent 30M on him

I think that Dembele kid needs to start regularly, BvB might have a diamond there.

I think it would be nice if they buy a 8, deep playmaker like Oliver Torres, Tielemans or Kovacic and maybe if Ramos leaves one Auba backup

raumdeuter:

I think Schurrle was an overkill and not worth the money, But I guess its a Tuchel transfer since they worked together in Mainz and management decided to give in to him

Schurrle was seen as a flop in WOlfsburg till February this year and DOrtmund spent 30M on him

I think that Dembele kid needs to start regularly, BvB might have a diamond there.

I think it would be nice if they buy a 8, deep playmaker like Oliver Torres, Tielemans or Kovacic and maybe if Ramos leaves one Auba backup

Dortmund signings:
Dembélé-€15m Guerreiro-€12m
Rode-€15m
Bartra-€8m
Mor-€9.5m
Merino-€4m
Gotze-€23m
Schürrle-€30m
Total=€116.5m

Pogba- €120m

Saw this somewhere. Its insane tbh

Schuerrle flopped badly at Wolfsburg. Goetze was a success compared to him. Its a puzzling transfer IMO. They spent the most for the guy they needed the least.

They do have Gonzalo Castro and that Merino kid. I don't rate Kovacic that much, Tielemans or Torres would be much better. I do think they need another CB. Bartra/Sokratis/Ginter won't hack it

But seriously Mou wants to pay €120m for Pogba. Lmaoo bruhhh

A40:

Dortmund signings:
Dembélé-€15m Guerreiro-€12m
Rode-€15m
Bartra-€8m
Mor-€9.5m
Merino-€4m
Gotze-€23m
Schürrle-€30m
Total=€116.5m

Pogba- €120m

Saw this somewhere. Its insane tbh

Schuerrle flopped badly at Wolfsburg. Goetze was a success compared to him. Its a puzzling transfer IMO. They spent the most for the guy they needed the least.

They do have Gonzalo Castro and that Merino kid. I don't rate Kovacic that much, Tielemans or Torres would be much better. I do think they need another CB. Bartra/Sokratis/Ginter won't hack it

But seriously Mou wants to pay €120m for Pogba. Lmaoo bruhhh

I think Bender would be moved permanently to defence. Remember Subotic is still aroud, he failed medicals at Middlesboro. Maye if they sell him succesfully they can buy someone Also I think Tuchel wants to play 3-4-3 with 3 central defenders Sokratis, Bender/Ginter and Bartra. I agree he can do with one more body in defence. By playing 3 CB he would play Weigl as the lone CB and play Gotze deeper.

I think they might sell Ramos and get Mario Gomez as backup or even push Aubameyang for first shirt and also another type of big man striker

-------Sokratis---Bartra--Bender
Piszezck--Weigl----Gotze---Guerrero
-----Schurrle---Auba--Reus

I think Dembele, Rode, Castro, Schmelzer, Sahin, Kagawa, Ginter would push hard for a first team shirt, With youngings like Merino Mor, Pulisic, Durm and Passlack ready to pick up valuable game time

This is a very big squad with little difference between starters and bench guys they wants to go deep in all competitions and also with the youngsters they are playing a game of numbers they got like 6 highly rated youngsters if 3-4 work out thats good for them

A40:
This Goetze sale dey pain me gaga oo. Not too much to analyze that hasn't already been broken down. Wish he rediscovers his form and belief at Dortmund. Would always respect him for the class and dignity he displayed especially in the final season.

It was inevitable, the signs were obvious, remember we discussed the sustainability of his transfer to Bayern prior to his arrival and even before the Euro's. Pep. G made it quite difficult for the young man to thrive and also the debate about his true position did not help his cause.

The golden boy is going back home like Sahin, Kagawa, the Westfalenstadion never rejects its prodigal sons.

Gotze said he regrets playing for Bayernliga, yet Mr. Ramuzaki has been quiet since.

If na for EPL news, e go carry ishan for him pari dey beat chest like king kong.

Pataki:
Gotze said he regrets playing for Bayernliga, yet Mr. Ramuzaki has been quiet since.

If na for EPL news, e go carry ishan for him pari dey beat chest like king kong.

Only Gotze said he regret? Which sensible player doesnt regret playing for Arsenal? How many of your captains have jumped ship in the past decade alone

Arsenal have the hallmark of regrets for how many years in a row, When Leicester can win a league before assanal. Pataki assanal is doomed

Roland17:

It was inevitable, the signs were obvious, remember we discussed the sustainability of his transfer to Bayern prior to his arrival and even before the Euro's. Pep. G made it quite difficult for the young man to thrive and also the debate about his true position did not help his cause.
The golden boy is going back home like Sahin, Kagawa, the Westfalenstadion never rejects its prodigal sons.

Just never found a way to integrate the boy. I know what I saw in Mario before he came to Bayern and its unfortunate Pep failed to give the boy a shot. 35 goals in 109 apps (9 in the CL) all from open play is a very solid return. Remains to be seen how well he performs. Sahin and to a lesser extent Kagawa have shown that going back home does not guarantee anything

That our away kit ehn. I'm not understanding Adidas sometimes. Black, grey and orange. Da fuq?

A40:
Just never found a way to integrate the boy. I know what I saw in Mario before he came to Bayern and its unfortunate Pep failed to give the boy a shot. 35 goals in 109 apps (9 in the CL) all from open play is a very solid return. Remains to be seen how well he performs. Sahin and to a lesser extent Kagawa have shown that going back home does not guarantee anything

The problem with the Gotze buy is that he was bought without any open spot for him. He plays best behind a striker and unfortunately thats also Mullers best position. Muller is way more productive, a fan favourite and less injured. So Gotzes chances were to be shunted everywhere in attack except his favourite position.

The only person i would have bought from Dortmund was lewandoski because he was an elite striker and players on his level. Higuain was just sold for like 90M and he is like 2 levels behind Lewandoski

Gotze doesnt have elite pace to play on the wings and not big enough to play as a striker.

A40, Roland17 How do you line up a Bayern first 11 currently or even last 2 seasons that Gotze would start. and deservedly start without benching guys who are more productive? Thus his hopes lies on hoping someone would get injured. And if the injured person isnt in his favourite position another problem of playing and underperforming.

raumdeuter:


The problem with the Gotze buy is that he was bought without any open spot for him. He plays best behind a striker and unfortunately thats also Mullers best position. Muller is way more productive, a fan favourite and less injured. So Gotzes chances were to be shunted everywhere in attack except his favourite position.

The only person i would have bought from Dortmund was lewandoski because he was an elite striker and players on his level. Higuain was just sold for like 90M and he is like 2 levels behind Lewandoski

Gotze doesnt have elite pace to play on the wings and not big enough to play as a striker.

A40, Roland17 How do you line up a Bayern first 11 currently or even last 2 seasons that Gotze would start. and deservedly start without benching guys who are more productive? Thus his hopes lies on hoping someone would get injured. And if the injured person isnt in his favourite position another problem of playing and underperforming.

Which begs the question and motive of his signing in the first place. Since it was apparently doomed to fail. I think Goetze made the most of a bad situation, the fact that he did not have a clear path to the starting XI should have perhaps bought him more time.

Also if we want to analyse critically and objectively it can be argued that he was quite productive. If we whittled down his goals and assists divide it from his playing time the results would suprise a lot of people who have previously tagged him as a flop. Bear in mind he doesn't take any set pieces. If he got more time he would perform, the numbers show that

When I look at Thiago who bar the Porto game and the goal vs Juve has done nothing else since joining Bayern and yet rarely gets criticised I begin to wonder

Certain players lost form towards the end of last season (Lewa, Costa, Mueller) yet Pep didn't deem it fit to give a Goetze just back from injury a run in the side

Back 4 selects itself.

------Alonso---Vidal-----

---------Goetze-------

Mueller---Lewa---Costa

Robben is always injured in the business end of the season anyway or at least has been for the past two seasons and Ribery or Coman would be best utilized as supersubs. Lineup can morph as a 4-1-4-1 or 4-3-1-2. Anyway all this is moot now, no point flogging a dead horse

raumdeuter:


The problem with the Gotze buy is that he was bought without any open spot for him. He plays best behind a striker and unfortunately thats also Mullers best position. Muller is way more productive, a fan favourite and less injured. So Gotzes chances were to be shunted everywhere in attack except his favourite position.

The only person i would have bought from Dortmund was lewandoski because he was an elite striker and players on his level. Higuain was just sold for like 90M and he is like 2 levels behind Lewandoski

Gotze doesnt have elite pace to play on the wings and not big enough to play as a striker.

A40, Roland17 How do you line up a Bayern first 11 currently or even last 2 seasons that Gotze would start. and deservedly start without benching guys who are more productive? Thus his hopes lies on hoping someone would get injured. And if the injured person isnt in his favourite position another problem of playing and underperforming.

I think A40 has eloquently answered your question, he practically spoke my mind. There was a fundamental problem with Gotze's transfer to Bayern, Was it done to prove Bayern still dominates and control the Bundesliga transfer market? was it done to instill fear in opponents by grabbing and holding on to their best players even when they are deemed surplus or do not match the team's need at that time?

I personally think Gotze's transfer and subsequent failure with Bayern highlights why critics believe Bayern consciously weaken competition in the Bundesliga even though it is debatable.

Gotze was the perfect surplus player any coach would want on his roaster and he made it easy for Pep by staying quiet and playing his bit when required.

A40:
Which begs the question and motive of his signing in the first place. Since it was apparently doomed to fail. I think Goetze made the most of a bad situation, the fact that he did not have a clear path to the starting XI should have perhaps bought him more time.

Also if we want to analyse critically and objectively it can be argued that he was quite productive. If we whittled down his goals and assists divide it from his playing time the results would suprise a lot of people who have previously tagged him as a flop. Bear in mind he doesn't take any set pieces. If he got more time he would perform, the numbers show that

When I look at Thiago who bar the Porto game and the goal vs Juve has done nothing else since joining Bayern and yet rarely gets criticised I begin to wonder

Certain players lost form towards the end of last season (Lewa, Costa, Mueller) yet Pep didn't deem it fit to give a Goetze just back from injury a run in the side

Back 4 selects itself.

------Alonso---Vidal-----

---------Goetze-------

Mueller---Lewa---Costa

Robben is always injured in the business end of the season anyway or at least has been for the past two seasons and Ribery or Coman would be best utilized as supersubs. Lineup can morph as a 4-1-4-1 or 4-3-1-2. Anyway all this is moot now, no point flogging a dead horse

Muller at right wing is suboptimal because he isnt the fastest and he lacks dribbling skills, his best attributes are his positioning and nose for a goal which would be underutilized on the wings
Muller on the wings would likely be a short 1

So assuming that is what you propose what happens when Robben is back, or when Ribery enters the team? Ribery is old and injured but he is still a much more explosive and creative player much more than Gotze.

If we blame Bayern then what happened to his Germany performances, He usually starts tournaments and underperforms and end up on the bench.

To me Bayern management just bought into the hype of Gotze at 2013 when everyone hyped him as one of great players coming through. Especially since he was bought without any specific coach demanding for his services. Guardiola obviously didnt want him and was forced on him, Ancelotti told him he isnt needed, even Low that try to use him ends up being disapointed. Basically 3 different coaches of 3 different nationalities havent been impressed by Gotze. Its not the first time we are seeing a player explode in his teens and fizzle out.

Bayern Management were in a rush to bag the next great star who could be the next Messi or Ronaldo or probably Gotze wasn't cut out for the pressure at big clubs

Roland17:
I think A40 has eloquently answered your question, he practically spoke my mind. There was a fundamental problem with Gotze's transfer to Bayern, Was it done to prove Bayern still dominates and control the Bundesliga transfer market? was it done to instill fear in opponents by grabbing and holding on to their best players even when they are deemed surplus or do not match the team's need at that time?

I personally think Gotze's transfer and subsequent failure with Bayern highlights why critics believe Bayern consciously weaken competition in the Bundesliga even though it is debatable.

Gotze was the perfect surplus player any coach would want on his roaster and he made it easy for Pep by staying quiet and playing his bit when required.

The problem with Gotzes transfer was that management bought into the hype and when it looked like others in the continents were about to pull the trigger our management panicked and bought Gotze without any coach demanding for him or thinking deeply how he would fit into the squad. They probably he would develop into an offensive all rounder who can play anywhere in attack, But Gotze isnt pacey enough for the wings, he is grestest when he is doing combination plays 1-2 and moving from support striker.

When you are the buggest club in the land you dont want any talent from the country to go outside without you having a say. Any elite Spanish talent must go through Barca or Madrid, Any elite English talent, Man utd would want to have a say in the transfer, same with Bayern for Germany and Juve for italy.

Thats why Juve broke a world record to sign Buffon, Bayern got Neuer and Madrid chase of DDG is well documented.

Bayern does whatever is good for them and dont care about weakening anyone. Bayern is competing in a global and European market and cant afford for the best star in your country to be going outside to your continental rivals without having a first option to buy

Lets see how he performs in his comfort zone in Dortmund after failing to impress Pep, Carlo and Loew

raumdeuter:


Only Gotze said he regret? Which sensible player doesnt regret playing for Arsenal? How many of your captains have jumped ship in the past decade alone

Arsenal have the hallmark of regrets for how many years in a row, When Leicester can win a league before assanal. Pataki assanal is doomed

Lol....

raumdeuter:


Muller at right wing is suboptimal because he isnt the fastest and he lacks dribbling skills, his best attributes are his positioning and nose for a goal which would be underutilized on the wings
Muller on the wings would likely be a short 1

So assuming that is what you propose what happens when Robben is back, or when Ribery enters the team? Ribery is old and injured but he is still a much more explosive and creative player much more than Gotze.

If we blame Bayern then what happened to his Germany performances, He usually starts tournaments and underperforms and end up on the bench.

To me Bayern management just bought into the hype of Gotze at 2013 when everyone hyped him as one of great players coming through. Especially since he was bought without any specific coach demanding for his services. Guardiola obviously didnt want him and was forced on him, Ancelotti told him he isnt needed, even Low that try to use him ends up being disapointed. Basically 3 different coaches of 3 different nationalities havent been impressed by Gotze. Its not the first time we are seeing a player explode in his teens and fizzle out.

Bayern Management were in a rush to bag the next great star who could be the next Messi or Ronaldo or probably Gotze wasn't cut out for the pressure at big clubs

Oh boi...! Whenever you decide not to be stingy with the truth tho.....

Nice one.

raumdeuter:

Muller at right wing is suboptimal because he isnt the fastest and he lacks dribbling skills, his best attributes are his positioning and nose for a goal which would be underutilized on the wings
Muller on the wings would likely be a short 1

So assuming that is what you propose what happens when Robben is back, or when Ribery enters the team? Ribery is old and injured but he is still a much more explosive and creative player much more than Gotze.

If we blame Bayern then what happened to his Germany performances, He usually starts tournaments and underperforms and end up on the bench.

To me Bayern management just bought into the hype of Gotze at 2013 when everyone hyped him as one of great players coming through. Especially since he was bought without any specific coach demanding for his services. Guardiola obviously didnt want him and was forced on him, Ancelotti told him he isnt needed, even Low that try to use him ends up being disapointed. Basically 3 different coaches of 3 different nationalities havent been impressed by Gotze. Its not the first time we are seeing a player explode in his teens and fizzle out.

Bayern Management were in a rush to bag the next great star who could be the next Messi or Ronaldo or probably Gotze wasn't cut out for the pressure at big clubs

Mueller is really a football anomaly and outlier. If we look closely it could be argued that Mueller lacks the close control, dribbling skills and vision to play behind the striker. I think the kind of formation we play would determine where Mueller lines up and bear in mind on the right is usually where he plays for Germany.

If Robben is available then most likely Goetze doesn't start. No shame in that. As for Ribery he is only fit for 2 months or season or so. Explosive maybe. I am not so sure about productive. Not at this point of his career

Lets look at the 2014 WC. Played well vs Portugal, Ghana. Was benched for no real reason against the U.S. Yanked off vs Algeria (who played well in that game bar Neuer till ET) Didn't start vs France and Brazil but still came on to make the difference in the Final. He even won two MOTM awards

If we look at the Euros I agree he struggled particularly in the 2nd game. He was solid vs Ukraine and especially vs Northern Ireland. Why he was benched vs Slovakia and Italy is unknown but Mueller was not exceptional either, Draxler bar the Slovakia game didn't do too much else. In all I think he usually gets a shorter rope. I couldn't help but laugh when I saw Loew throw in Goetze in the game vs France when all was lost, did he think everyday is Christmas?

I don't believe Mario suddenly forgot how to play football. His confidence is shot and the issue is mental.

17 goals in 56 caps
35 goals in 109 apps for Bayern all from open play tell me there is a productive player in there.

raumdeuter:


Only Gotze said he regret? Which sensible player doesnt regret playing for Arsenal? How many of your captains have jumped ship in the past decade alone

Arsenal have the hallmark of regrets for how many years in a row, When Leicester can win a league before assanal. Pataki assanal is doomed

We are talking about your club of regret, openly expressed by Gotze. Arindin Ramuzaki must talk about Arsenal. Are you a natural imbecilé? No wonder there is expression of life to your useless league.