NB: This is the continuation of the my previous thread. Please read it before coming here. This current thread is a long piece and I will break them in parts.

While the heat is increasingly dying down concerning the sex scandal involving Busola Dakolo and Pastor Fatoyinbo, it is important that the conversation doesn't die down. There are a few things concerning rape allegations and the appropriate approach that I still like to talk about.

When confronted with the sound argument that Pastor Fatoyinbo(or any accused) shall be presumed innocent until proven guilty and can't be convicted of rape without evidence, the emotional masses, who irrationally and gratuitously took the side of Busola(or any accuser), usually reply with "how do you expect the accuser to come up with evidence? Do girls go about with cameras capturing every moments of their lives? Do you expect them to do that? How can she have evidence?" This argument would have been appropriate if it were suggested, implied or argued that Busola(or any accuser) is lying because she doesn't have evidence.

Of course, lack of evidence doesn't mean lack of rape and at the same time, lack of evidence doesn't mean that the accused is guilty instead lack of evidence means that you have no ground to assert that the accused is guilty of rape. When people use that counter argument, they are trying to imply something to the effect of "since many rape that actually occurred have no evidence due to their unexpectancy, the accused could have done it and he did it so there is no problem or foolishness in branding the accused a rapist without evidence or even convicting him without evidence." If you really listen and observe the people who use the flawed counter argument I mentioned earlier, you will notice the same.

This mindset set is a dangerous and ridiculous one because it poses great risk to innocent men and can incur irremediable damages for the innocent. Whether you like it or not, all accused shall be presumed innocent until proven guilty. It is wrong morally and logically to brand someone a rapist and put them through the humiliation and ignominy meant for confirmed rapist. It's even more grievous to have a man convicted in court and jailed for rape without evidence. Lack of evidence for the claims of the accuser means you have no grounds to call the accuseda rapist or demand the accused be convicted for rape in court. Another important thing to note is that even if thousands of women are accusing a man of rape, their accusations and accounts are not evidence. Also, the coherency of a story is not evidence. As I said before, never underestimate the deceptive capacity, pettiness and wickedness of the human mind. "Dem say, dem say; I hear, I hear" is not evidence. "I believe her," is not evidence. Pastor Fatoyinbo shall be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Given all I have said, some may ask "how then can we help and support rape victims?" Well, before I state how that can be achieved, I will make it clear that you don't support rape victims by blindly and foolishly believing their stories. To support rape victims, the following must be done :

1) We, as a society, must create the platform and opportunity for anyone with a rape claim to give their account without suppressing their voice, bullying or stigmatising them.
2) A vigorous campaign and activism that will propagate the message that being a rape victim doesn't mean one is inferior or one should feel that their self worth has been diminished and damaged beyond repair. Such campaign should also inculcate the masses with the idea that rape victims are not deserving of stigma.
3) Establishment of support groups and quality counselling to help them recover and let them see that it is not the end of the world and they can still build a happy and well rounded life.
4) We must ensure that rape cases are solemnly handled legally(not by jungle justice or social media mob) and due process must be followed. We must also ensure that cases are seen to the end and are not lazily dropped or flippantly handled by the police and authorities.

One thing that incredibly irks me is the naivety of many men and women in this case. The ideas and convictions that women don't lie about rape; women can't just accuse a men of rape; a man must be guilty or shady if many women are accusing him; etc. must be done away it. These are misleading and dangerous. People who hold such views are really naive. Also, if you foolishly want to blindly believe rape claims and impose it on people by saying "why are you doubting her? Is it because your sister or female relatives or friends hasn't been raped? Think about your sisters, female friends and mother. Well, whenever you want to convict a man of rape without evidence, do think about your brothers, male friends and father.





... continues shortly.

EDIT: THE CONTINUATION.



Ubunja, cococandy, CAPSLOCKED, hahn, Michellekabod2, CosmicPhoenix, MJBOLT, JOHNNYSPUTE, LordReed, Seun, Ishilove, budaatum, Regiomontanus, Mynd44, lalasticlala, lilbest4, BananaTree, aviato, HardMirror, XxSabrinaxX, 1Sharon, etc.

Martinez39:


While the heat is increasingly dying down concerning the sex scandal involving Busola Dakolo and Pastor Fatoyinbo, it is important that the conversation doesn't die down. There are a few things concerning rape allegations and the appropriate approach that I still like to talk about.

When confronted with the sound argument that Pastor Fatoyinbo(or any accused) shall be presumed innocent until proven guilty and can't be convicted of rape without evidence, the emotional masses, who irrationally and gratuitously took the side of Busola(or any accuser), usually reply with "how do you expect the accuser to come up with evidence? Do girls go about with cameras capturing every moments of their lives? Do you expect them to do that? How can she have evidence?" This argument would have been appropriate if it were suggested, implied or argued that Busola(or any accuser) is lying because she doesn't have evidence.

Of course, lack of evidence doesn't mean lack of rape and at the same time, lack of evidence doesn't mean that the accused is guilty instead lack of evidence means that you have no ground to assert that the accused is guilty of rape. When people use that counter argument, they are trying to imply something to the effect of "since many rape that actually occurred have no evidence due to their unexpectancy, the accused could have done it and he did it so there is no problem or foolishness in branding the accused a rapist without evidence or even convicting him without evidence." If you really listen and observe the people who use the flawed counter argument I mentioned earlier, you will notice the same.

This mindset set is a dangerous and ridiculous one because it poses great risk to innocent men and can incur irremediable damages for the innocent. Whether you like it or not, all accused shall be presumed innocent until proven guilty. It is wrong morally and logically to brand someone a rapist and put them through the humiliation and ignominy meant for confirmed rapist. It's even more grievous to have a man convicted in court and jailed for rape without evidence. Lack of evidence for the claims of the accuser means you have no grounds to call the accuseda rapist or demand the accused be convicted for rape in court. Another important thing to note is that even if thousands of women are accusing a man of rape, their accusations and accounts are not evidence. Also, the coherency of a story is not evidence. As I said before, never underestimate the deceptive capacity, pettiness and wickedness of the human mind. "Dem say, dem say; I hear, I hear" is not evidence. "I believe her," is not evidence. Pastor Fatoyinbo shall be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Given all I have said, some may ask "how then can we help and support rape victims?" Well, before I state how that can be achieved, I will make it clear that you don't support rape victims by blindly and foolishly believing their stories. To support rape victims, the following must be done :


One thing that incredibly irks me is the naivety of many men and women in this case. The ideas and convictions that women don't lie about rape; women can't just accuse a men of rape; a man must be guilty or shady if many women are accusing him; etc. must be done away it. These are misleading and dangerous. People who hold such views are really naive. Also, if you foolishly want to blindly believe rape claims and impose it on people by saying "why are you doubting her? Is it because your sister or female relatives or friends hasn't been raped? Think about your sisters, female friends and mother. Well, whenever you want to convict a man of rape without evidence, do think about your brothers, male friends and father.





... continues shortly.



Ubunja, cococandy, CAPSLOCKED, hahn, Michellekabod2, CosmicPhoenix, MJBOLT, JOHNNYSPUTE, LordReed, Seun, Ishilove, budaatum, Regiomontanus, Mynd44, lalasticlala, lilbest4, BananaTree, aviato, HardMirror, XxSabrinaxX, 1Sharon, etc.

Busola's case is not my main focus in this, it is the fact that repeatedly you have various females who seemingly have no connection to one another other than they were members of his church coming out to say he propositioned them for sex or succeeded in having sex with them. He is not the only flamboyant and rich pastor in this Nigeria, not even in Abuja where he is based. Like someone said, if you meet a jerk once in day, maybe that person was a jerk but if you meet jerks every hour of the day then maybe you are the jerk.

LordReed:


Busola's case is not my main focus in this, it is the fact that repeatedly you have various females who seemingly have no connection to one another other than they were members of his church coming out to say he propositioned them for sex or succeeded in having sex with them. He is not the only flamboyant and rich pastor in this Nigeria, not even in Abuja where he is based. Like someone said, if you meet a jerk once in day, maybe that person was a jerk but if you meet jerks every hour of the day then maybe you are the jerk.

That's chances but it doesn't prove anything. As long as there are no evidences to pin Pastor Fatoyinbo, he shall be presumed innocent until proven guilty and under no conditions shall he be subject to the harassment and ignominy that confirmed rapists deserve. Beside, apart from Efe Walters and Busola, we don't know if other girls really accused Fatoyinbo of rape except that Timi Dakolo said so. Even if they did, it's still not evidence.

Las las, no evidence, no conviction. I expect Busola Dakolo and well meaning masses to ferociously fight this issue in court. Social media blind support is no evidence.

Martinez39:
That's chances but it doesn't prove anything. As long as there are no evidences to pin Pastor Fatoyinbo, he shall be presumed innocent until proven guilty and under no conditions shall he be subject to the harassment and ignominy that confirmed rapists deserve. Beside, apart from Efe Walters and Busola, we don't know if other girls really accused Fatoyinbo of rape except that Timi Dakolo said so. Even if they did, it's still not evidence.

Las las, no evidence, no conviction. I expect Busola Dakolo and well meaning masses to ferociously fight this issue in court. Social media blind support is no evidence.

The rape thing is not my focus. I already know it will be hard to prove rape at this point in time so I don't even focus on it. What I want is for this man who is seemingly abusing his authority to obtain sexual favours, to be thoroughly scrutinised and if indeed he has been abusing his authority, a way should be found to put an end to that abuse.

LordReed:


The rape thing is not my focus. I already know it will be hard to prove rape at this point in time so I don't even focus on it. What I want is for this man who is seemingly abusing his authority to obtain sexual favours, to be thoroughly scrutinised and if indeed he has been abusing his authority, a way should be found to put an end to that abuse.

Very good but then, for him to be scrutinised, someone must file a complaint to the authorities who would then begin investigation. Once investigation starts, Pastor Fatoyinbo, as demanded by the authorities, can then turn himself in for investigation.

This is what should be done instead of people blindly taking sides with Busola and storming his church to call him a rapist and ask for him to step down. If they want Fatoyinbo to turn himself in, let them approach the authorities who would investigate and demand that he turns himself in. It is futile for people to expect Fatoyinbo to turn himself just like that.

Martinez39:
Very good but then, for him to be scrutinised, someone must file a complaint to the authorities who would then begin investigation. Once investigation starts, Pastor Fatoyinbo, as demanded by the authorities, can then turn himself in for investigation.

This is what should be done instead of people blindly taking sides with Busola and storming his church to call him a rapist and ask for him to step down. If they want Fatoyinbo to turn himself in, let them approach the authorities who would investigate and demand that he turns himself in. It is futile for people to expect Fatoyinbo to turn himself just like that.

It doesn't have to even be a formal police investigation. He belongs to a community that prides itself on being adherents of the straight and narrow which should by definition frown on such abuse of office. They should be able to do something about it. I am not really interested in labelling him as a criminal but it should be clear that abuse of office should not be tolerated.

LordReed:


Busola's case is not my main focus in this, it is the fact that repeatedly you have various females who seemingly have no connection to one another other than they were members of his church coming out to say he propositioned them for sex or succeeded in having sex with them. He is not the only flamboyant and rich pastor in this Nigeria, not even in Abuja where he is based. Like someone said, if you meet a jerk once in day, maybe that person was a jerk but if you meet jerks every hour of the day then maybe you are the jerk.

approaching women for sex doesn't in any way point to him being a rapist or even a potential rapist

Martinez39:
That's chances but it doesn't prove anything. As long as there are no evidences to pin Pastor Fatoyinbo, he shall be presumed innocent until proven guilty and under no conditions shall he be subject to the harassment and ignominy that confirmed rapists deserve. Beside, apart from Efe Walters and Busola, we don't know if other girls really accused Fatoyinbo of rape except that Timi Dakolo said so. Even if they did, it's still not evidence.

Las las, no evidence, no conviction. I expect Busola Dakolo and well meaning masses to ferociously fight this issue in court. Social media blind support is no evidence.

I don't think the so call Ese accused him of rape. She is just dumb girl who had sex and later regretted it maybe she thought he was going to marry her or something but when it didn't go as planned she said he "manipulated her" lol

lilbest4:
approaching women for sex doesn't in way point to him being a rapist or even a potential rapist

Did I give the impression that I think it does?

... continued

One formality, espoused by the masses, that I find unreasonable, callous, troubling and unnecessary is the idea that any accused who is employed or holds a top official position must step down or be made to step down from their position. Some even suggest, like in the case of Brett Kavanaugh, that if you are about to be interviewed for a position, you should be drop and replaced and you should go clear your name. If I may ask, of what use is stepping down actually? Who made it so that stepping down is the right thing to do? Does stepping down make the accused more innocent? Does it mean justice? Does stepping down prove anything? Does stepping down mean that the case is actually been taken seriously? Pastor Fatoyinbo can step down, go to his toilet at night and laugh at the emotional and gullible masses as he peers into his phone's screen. So I ask, what is the use of stepping down? What is the use of costing someone his job and source of livelihood over an allegation that has no evidence? If he is innocent at the end of the day, how will he recoup the loss and mend the damage to his reputation? What if his name never gets cleared? Is that how he will be continously rejected at every job interview and ostracised because of a stigma placed upon him without evidence?

Imagine if you struggled hard, after many years since graduating, to get a job and you were suddenly and falsely accused by a girl, how would you feel if everyone took her side without evidence and you were suspended or asked to step down from your job? How will you feel? Remember that getting a job is very difficult. Imagine if you were called for an interview for your dream job and a girl falsely accused you, how would you feel if everyone took her side and you were dismissed and replaced? Many boys and men need to think and stop being stupid, self-centered and simps. Before you start supporting women without evidence, put your self in the shoes of the accused and realise that with your absurd approach and impetuousity, any innocent man can easily be taken down and it could be you or your loved ones.

Moreover, this formality, if established, can be exploited by your rivals and enemies in your place of work, organisation or business to damage your image, frustrate you and cost you opportunities and resources. The damage is done once you are accused or once a girl is paid handsomely by your rivals or enemies to frame you up for rape and you would have to step down because it's the established formality. Someone stepping down or someone being made to step is just an unnecessary and gratuitous move to give the public the illusion that something productive and serious is being done about the case. This is not necessarily true and if you fall for this illusion, you have no brain.

"Stepping down would give him time to deal with the accusation and clear his name," you may ask. Well, holding his job or position and attending court hearings are not necessarily mutually exclusive. If he is found guilty after all said and done, he can then be sacked and made to step down. Pastor Fatoyinbo, for example, can still minister to his congregation and still attend court hearings. If he is then proven guilty, he can then be asked to step down. Not stepping down doesn't impede.


Men must be careful lest they help irresponsible women create a society in which they are not safe and are destroyed. Coming out on social media and having the support of social media doesn't prove anything. While we sympathise with rape victims, we must make such that we stay neutral and follow where the evidences lead. We must stop assuming and believing blindly.


... to be continued. I have to eat.

LordReed:


It doesn't have to even be a formal police investigation. He belongs to a community that prides itself on being adherents of the straight and narrow which should by definition frown on such abuse of office. They should be able to do something about it. I am not really interested in labelling him as a criminal but it should be clear that abuse of office should not be tolerated.

There is a difference between what the church should be and the church is just like there is a difference between what the Catholic Church should be and what Catholic Church is. Most churches are riddled with corruption and immorality. How can we expect COZA to do a good job of investigating Fatoyinbo when Fatoyinbo is the head? Besides, COZA could lie that a vigorous investigation is being conducted and then come out to say they found nothing on Pastor Fatoyinbo. So you see, expecting them to do something is futile.

Martinez39:
There is a difference between what the church should be and the church is just like there is a difference between what the Catholic Church should be and what Catholic Church is. Most churches are riddled with corruption and immorality. How can we expect COZA to do a good job of investigating Fatoyinbo when Fatoyinbo is the head? Besides, COZA could lie that a vigorous investigation is being conducted and then come out to say they found nothing on Pastor Fatoyinbo. So you see, expecting them to do something is futile.

Good so that becomes any point for its adherents to consider: is there so much corruption in our organisation/group that we can't even stop people like this?

LordReed:


Good so that becomes any point for its adherents to consider: is there so much corruption in our organisation/group that we can't even stop people like this?

Lol. You mean the gullible sheeples? You know the mental servitude they have towards THEIR GOs. To them, their GO is spotless and every criticism or charge against the GO as malicious lies concocted in the camp of Satan to mar the GO's reputation. Pastor Fatoyinbo's members are even supportive of him and do not believe he is guilty.

The only possible way for progress to be made is to involve a neutral party from the outside with no affiliation with COZA — the police. Until that happens, Busola and the social media mobs would achieve nothing with their reactions.

Martinez39:
Lol. You mean the gullible sheeples? You know the mental servitude they have towards THEIR GOs. To them, their GO is spotless and every criticism or charge against the GO as malicious lies concocted in the camp of Satan to mar the GO's reputation. Pastor Fatoyinbo's members are even supportive of him and do not believe he is guilty.

The only possible way for progress to be made is to involve a neutral party from the outside with no affiliation with COZA — the police. Until that happens, Busola and the social media mobs would achieve nothing with their reactions.

And another one:

https://www.nairaland.com/5280924/ex-coza-staff-church-member

I wonder how many it will take to push them into action.

LordReed:


And another one:

https://www.nairaland.com/5280924/ex-coza-staff-church-member

I wonder how many it will take to push them into action.

Lol. The question is, who should push them to investigate? As I have explained, COZA can frame an investigation and, of course, nothing would come out of it for the expectant public. As long as someone doesn't file a complaint to the police and there are no evidences, Pastor Fatoyinbo remains untouchable. Social media verdict is not evidence. Multiple allegations from different women are not evidences. Multiple allegations for different women don't make him "more guilty" than a man who has been accused once. It's just the way it is, either there is evidence or not.

By resorting to social media alone and gathering their blind believe and justice, Busola Dakolo is heading nowhere. LET THEM INVOLVE THE POLICE AND TAKE THE ISSUE TO COURT.