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My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. - Romance - Nairaland

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My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by Maxxim: 2:29pm On Oct 08, 2019
Don't mind the typos tho
I've always been a fan of Ubunja miseducation until I started examining all his teachings and practices, I have nothing against him, I'm just trying to clear you guys on some of the things you need to consider before taking into action some of his teachings.

There is this fact that our thinking and our sense of reasoning are quite different so this teaching can't be recommended to every guys out there wanting to grow a beautiful home in the future.

The very first time I read his epistles it was an eye opener for me because it creates this awareness by telling me more about what goes on every women's mind and how complex their thoughts are.

But then I realised following his lessons deep down will only lead you into
Losing your emotion (which is the essence of entering a relationship)
You lose being Compassionate.
You become a player by trying this method on every girls you meet.

Making some research further shows that if you keep following this pyscological tricks you'll never be able to build a healthy relationship.

So i tried digging into this matter after sometimes I realised most of we men out here are weak guys.
Most guys are boys in adult body they lack self confidence.
They don't understand the woman pyscology

Majority of us have been affected by social validation, been needy in every relationship and the lack of self reliance.

What I mean in essence is that most guys haven't gotten the time to study and analyse themselves.
Instead of liking the kind of person we are knowing we are the result of the actions we take and that other people will only advise us based on who we are externally instead of internally we try to please everyone's opinion.

When we lack self reliance we make the woman make most decisions which is what most women hate because no matter their social status they'll always need a man that can lead them.

Aside from that a needy man shows a woman that something is wrong
with him, that he is trying to just “get”
something from her. In short, that he cannot add value to her life,that he can only take value.

You can safely
bet she will avoid any type of intimate relationship with such a man, at all costs.

And most importantly some men don't have any purpose.
When it comes to having purpose in life it means having a reason of living, it creates a pathway towards your future ambition.
And so when a man lacks this and women senses those absent areas they're prone to become uninterested in you.

They've got to see proof that you have the potential to be a responsible man.

So as a man you've got to be yourself, improve your social life by becoming freeman, be authentic, turn on your masculinity then you'll always win the heart of women.

These are my thought guys I stand to be corrected if there's any need for it.

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Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by liquidfaya: 4:18pm On Oct 08, 2019
In other words truth was shown you but was too bitter so you revert back to illusions?
Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by Maxxim: 4:23pm On Oct 08, 2019
liquidfaya:
In other words truth was shown you but was too bitter so you revert back to illusions?
Nah dude read in btw, Truth was shown sure but it further leads astray. undecided

1 Like

Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by liquidfaya: 4:28pm On Oct 08, 2019
Maxxim:

Nah dude read in btw, Truth was shown sure but it further leads astray. undecided
okay boss
Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by Searchingvictor: 10:33pm On Jul 29, 2022
Maxxim:

Nah dude read in btw, Truth was shown sure but it further leads astray. undecided
.

Boss,
Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by Kayeez(m): 11:04pm On Jul 29, 2022
Nice one!
I buy BTC, gift cards and other cryptocurrencies at a very high rate.

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Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by MayorOfDelta(m): 11:12pm On Jul 29, 2022
True, I don't really apply all the teachings in all scenario. You ought to know when and where to apply all these redpills kind of stuff because everyone is not the same. We have the Good and the Bad. You have to apply wisdom in order not to lose the good ones.

Let me give you guys a perfect and real life "illustration" of what I am trying to say.

There is this guy in our hostel, I noticed he is a redpiller and I hardly see him talk with women or have anything to do with them, only on rare occasions. There is this new girl that just came into our hostel, initially this guy and the girl were talking and greeting each other until one day, I was just sitting around the corner. The girl came in and greeted everybody except the guy, at first I thought I didn't noticed when she greeted him but from the guy countenance, all is not well.

So later, I found out that he and the girl do not talk to each other again, I couldn't get the reason but I have talked and had sometimes with this girl, she is not bad, she is quite churchy and also nice but I don't know why the guy is having issue with her.

Recently, I discovered from some people around that the guy is always negative towards women and that is why we don't see women or girls with him.

And I am wondering how such a person will see a good woman or even get married?
Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by odinson1(m): 11:34pm On Jul 29, 2022
MayorOfDelta:
True,

And I am wondering how such a person will see a good woman or even get married?


He nor go die if he nor marry boss. Some people just want to be left alone and avoid all the drama and stress that comes with being in a relationship.
I personally cannot tolerate the Emotional tantrums women throw whenever they don't get what they want. Don't even get me started on their nagging, unnecessary billings,mood swings,besties. I don't have time for all that nonsense.
I think that's how that guy is too

5 Likes

Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by MayorOfDelta(m): 11:44pm On Jul 29, 2022
odinson1:


He nor go die if he nor marry boss. Some people just want to be left alone and avoid all the drama and stress that comes with being in a relationship.
I personally cannot tolerate the Emotional tantrums women throw whenever they don't get what they want. Don't even get me started on their nagging, unnecessary billings,mood swings,besties. I don't have time for all that nonsense. i think that's how that guy is too

You can still dodge all these without being negative towards ALL Women.

2 Likes

Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by Nobody: 11:47pm On Jul 29, 2022
Few months back, I would argue all redpills topic, try to bring out the danger in not filtering through, following blindly what is taught. Question the fact that redpill especially Nl redpills only focus on getting into a woman's thighs etc.

One day I realize, sooner or later these guys will get tired and realize life is deeper than a woman's body. It's nice that is happening. You will be okay.

1 Like

Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by Maxxim: 11:58pm On Jul 29, 2022
Persephone1:
Few months back, I would argue all redpills topic, try to bring out the danger in not filtering through, following blindly what is taught. Question the fact that redpill especially Nl redpills only focus on getting into a woman's thighs etc.

One day I realize, sooner or later these guys will get tired and realize life is deeper than a woman's body. It's nice that is happening. You will be okay.
Lol funny enough I wrote and created this thread 4years ago, which was the first time learning about the Redpill, till now my views are not kind of diff from this. My kind of personality likes to analyze things I'm getting involved in and since I realized another matrix exist in redpill, I literally took what I needed and apply em when necessary, I hate being dogmatic.

2 Likes

Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by Maxxim: 12:05am On Jul 30, 2022
MayorOfDelta:
True, I don't really apply all the teachings in all scenario. You ought to know when and where to apply all these redpills kind of stuff because everyone is not the same. We have the Good and the Bad. You have to apply wisdom in order not to lose the good ones.

Let me give you guys a perfect and real life "illustration" of what I am trying to say.

There is this guy in our hostel, I noticed he is a redpiller and I hardly see him talk with women or have anything to do with them, only on rare occasions. There is this new girl that just came into our hostel, initially this guy and the girl were talking and greeting each other until one day, I was just sitting around the corner. The girl came in and greeted everybody except the guy, at first I thought I didn't noticed when she greeted him but from the guy countenance, all is not well.

So later, I found out that he and the girl do not talk to each other again, I couldn't get the reason but I have talked and had sometimes with this girl, she is not bad, she is quite churchy and also nice but I don't know why the guy is having issue with her.

Recently, I discovered from some people around that the guy is always negative towards women and that is why we don't see women or girls with him.

And I am wondering how such a person will see a good woman or even get married?

Your friend might be stuck in a phase in redpill, which could be the anger phase, his relationship with her only comes to prove to em the Awalt concept. He'll get over it somedays, it may take years tho, until his anger subsidize
Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by Nobody: 12:05am On Jul 30, 2022
Maxxim:

Lol funny enough I wrote and created this thread 4years ago, which was the first time learning about the Redpill, till now my views are not kind of diff from this. My kind of personality likes to analyze things I'm getting involved in and since I realized another matrix exist in redpill, I literally took what I needed and apply em when necessary, I hate being dogmatic.
Oh! I didn't check the date.

Well good to know there are few who don't take all hook, line and sinker. Ability to filter through new idealogy is a forte, sadly it's very rare these days

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Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by Magnoliaa(f): 2:05am On Jul 30, 2022
Yaaawwwwnnns.
Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by pansophist(m): 2:36am On Jul 30, 2022
Its sad that redpill on nairaland focused so damn much about women, but it's way larger than that. Lazy boys that should do something reasonable with their life will seek solace in the redpill, and think it will save them from the responsibility of developing themselves.

The kind of hate speech that litters nairaland now is disgraceful, like misandrist and feminism, now we have sworn women haters who call themselves alpha males. These slowpokes probably are virgins, or their sexual experience are with prostitutes. Probably will go masturbate after insulting women here, shame.

If you like, swallow a tank of redpill capsules, if you refuse to develop yourself as a man, women will not send you. You won't even send yourself because you'll feel inferior. Both path are painful (laziness and productivity), but one is a road to redemption while the other is a one way journey to hell on earth. Your choice.

12 Likes 3 Shares

Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by Fiscus105(m): 3:02am On Jul 30, 2022
Persephone1:
Few months back, I would argue all redpills topic, try to bring out the danger in not filtering through, following blindly what is taught. Question the fact that redpill especially Nl redpills only focus on getting into a woman's thighs etc.

One day I realize, sooner or later these guys will get tired and realize life is deeper than a woman's body. It's nice that is happening. You will be okay.


Uhmmmmm, I always pity guys/men who, sleep, wake up and always think about having sex with women and hardly think about themselves oooo, up to 75% guys here fall into such category.

How many women a guy will sleep with? Not even in recent time that number of girls far outnumbered guys and nearly all girls ready to open legs if the right price is on the table
Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by cayorday89(m): 3:53am On Jul 30, 2022
Maxxim:

Lol funny enough I wrote and created this thread 4years ago, which was the first time learning about the Redpill, till now my views are not kind of diff from this. My kind of personality likes to analyze things I'm getting involved in and since I realized another matrix exist in redpill, I literally took what I needed and apply em when necessary, I hate being dogmatic.


Boss, you are so much on point.. I guess it goes with the same principle of too much of everything is bad coupled with the uniqueness of every individual and the situations surrounding their lives, some things are not needed but need to be known and should only be applied when situation calls for it, but some people will swallow it hook and line then apply all that on issues that only need communication and sorting out with your partner.

Also saying a simple 'NO' when someone tries to leech on you goes a long way in giving one peace of mind rather than seeing all females as potential leech and hating on them all.

The red pill and the feminist ideologies are eye openers, they both came up to address and protect their respective genders but all they speak about is not for one person to practice, it will only be a burden at the end as no one is expected to suffer all the lapses they preach against but to pick the ones that affects one directly.

1 Like

Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by Maxxim: 6:19am On Jul 30, 2022
cayorday89:



Boss, you are so much on point.. I guess it goes with the same principle of too much of everything is bad coupled with the uniqueness of every individual and the situations surrounding their lives, some things are not needed but need to be known and should only be applied when situation calls for it, but some people will swallow it hook and line then apply all that on issues that only need communication and sorting out with your partner.

Also saying a simple 'NO' when someone tries to leech on you goes a long way in giving one peace of mind rather than seeing all females as potential leech and hating on them all.

The red pill and the feminist ideologies are eye openers, they both came up to address and protect their respective genders but all they speak about is not for one person to practice, it will only be a burden at the end as no one is expected to suffer all the lapses they preach against but to pick the ones that affects one directly.
Fax, I agree with you bro

1 Like

Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by Karleb(m): 6:25am On Jul 30, 2022
Maxxim:

Lol funny enough I wrote and created this thread 4years ago, which was the first time learning about the Redpill, till now my views are not kind of diff from this. My kind of personality likes to analyze things I'm getting involved in and since I realized another matrix exist in redpill, I literally took what I needed and apply em when necessary, I hate being dogmatic.

This dogma thing is the only thing I hate about red pill.

I remember when I pointed it out to some fellow here, I got insulted.

Red pill is eye opening but if you read their thread for 3 months you will develop hatred for women for what they did not do to you. It also stops people from introspection. I mean, a lot of guys are the reason women treat them the way they do. The movement literally absorbed men of their faults and puts every blame on women.

If this feels like deja vu, then it is because it sounds exactly like feminism.

They annoying part is, if you don't agree then you are a simp.

It's the same issue I have with the introverts thread, many of them are too lazy to work on their social life and blame extroverts for the reason why introverts cannot open up to people.

I have bombarded the introvert thread twice to make them realize this, I got insulted and that's fine but I don't think I have the strength for that red pill thread.

Besides, why must red pill be about women almost all the time. Kelvin Samuel don't even talk about women all days. He doesn't berate women unless they ask for it. He talks more on self development for men.

These people, red pill, feminists, introverts, are recruiting young minds that will spend their young adult life doing the wrong thing. Do you know how scary that is?
Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by Nobody: 7:21am On Jul 30, 2022
pansophist:
Its sad that redpill on nairaland focused so damn much about women, but it's way larger than that. Lazy boys that should do something reasonable with their life will seek solace in the redpill, and think it will save them from the responsibility of developing themselves.

The kind of hate speech that litters nairaland now is disgraceful, like misandrist and feminism, now we have sworn women haters who call themselves alpha males. These slowpokes probably are virgins, or their sexual experience are with prostitutes. Probably will go masturbate after insulting women here, shame.

If you like, swallow a tank of redpill capsules, if you refuse to develop yourself as a man, women will not send you. You won't even send yourself because you'll feel inferior. Both path are painful (laziness and productivity), but one is a road to redemption while the other is a one way journey to hell on earth. Your choice.



I don't buy what you are saying, men should develop themselves to what end? Men are driven by survival and reproduction,all road leads to sex, you don't need to discredit the redpill thread because it's doing a lot in creating awareness of the sexual market place, being productive as a man is of utmost necessity no doubt but you should understand that ignorance of men's SMV is what is costing men and making them make life altering decisions like doing fraud to gain status to get Sexual access and please hoes, wanting to unrealistically be billionaires in their twenties when they don't have leverage of their parents money or connection and the country they find themselves lacks infrastructure.

Redpill will make you understand why the rush in your life only to end up and commit to a post wall hoe, redpill reminds you of maintaining frame so that you won't end up in an exploitative relationship where the other party is leveraging her beauty, sexuality and the fact you want emotional bonding. You are correct most are masturbating, sexless, paying prostitutes but can you fault them,they are typically young men who lack the means now but should be reminded daily which we do that when they put in the effort as they must and achieve their potential in their late 30's which is men's peak SMV year they should know their value with relation to women.

Why should you chase excellence, become productive, go on monk mode only to be a retirement plan to predatory women who don't have geniune desire for me but just want to use my hard earned resources for her beta bucks, see Bezos he met gold digging Sanchez after all his IQ to develop Amazon, all the Tech billionaires married women in the epiphany or post wall phase after they rode the cock carousel in their prime years, why? they don't understand their own nature and women's nature.


Off course men are logical when it comes to majority of things except when it comes to dealing with women, we are going to spend the rest of our adult life with them, they are going to carry and raise our kids, nature made us have high libido wanting unlimited access to unlimited sexuality,women that big corporations and govt use to exploit men, women that we are designed to be the disposable sex for, they are so many self improvement platforms and books all over the internet, but very few intersexual dynamics platforms needed to aid men from making foolish and life altering decisions.

Chase success only to fulfill the feminine imperative and become a lifelong slave exploited in a relationship and you rationalize it as your masculine duty of performance where after she enjoyed her party years she then gets the best in your own prime years giving you her worst in terms of depreciating beauty, fertility, bad attitude, past emotional baggages all because you devoted all your actions on monk mode thinking money is everything. The funny thing is that women are so smart that when their sexual attention starts to decline they then become matured and focus on responsibility so that you can fulfil her beta bucks.

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Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by Maxxim: 9:04am On Jul 30, 2022
Karleb:


This dogma thing is the only thing I hate about red pill.

I remember when I pointed it out to some fellow here, I got insulted.

Red pill is eye opening but if you read their thread for 3 months you will develop hatred for women for what they did not do to you. It also stops people from introspection. I mean, a lot of guys are the reason women treat them the way they do. The movement literally absorbed men of their faults and puts every blame on women.

If this feels like deja vu, then it is because it sounds exactly like feminism.

They annoying part is, if you don't agree then you are a simp.

It's the same issue I have with the introverts thread, many of them are too lazy to work on their social life and blame extroverts for the reason why introverts cannot open up to people.

I have bombarded the introvert thread twice to make them realize this, I got insulted and that's fine but I don't think I have the strength for that red pill thread.

Besides, why must red pill be about women almost all the time. Kelvin Samuel don't even talk about women all days. He doesn't berate women unless they ask for it. He talks more on self development for men.

These people, red pill, feminists, introverts, are recruiting young minds that will spend their young adult life doing the wrong thing. Do you know how scary that is?

I completely agree with you, most of these people running behind these movements sometimes does so to cover their low self lifestyle and their inability to get more good from life.
There's a lot to enjoy in life than getting stuck thereby the only option left is to start bashing other genders.
I wish them healing tho.
Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by Eileene(f): 9:50am On Jul 30, 2022
I couldn't resist inputting something.

This goes to prove my belief that all knowledge are needed but not all knowledge are useful...

One should be smart enough to pursue all knowledge that one can lay his hands on but wise enough to know when and when not to apply...

Feminism,Redpill,Religious Doctrines they are all the same...

They all have their good messages no doubt but not all are beneficial...

Life is not in black & white give allowances for the shades of grey...
Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by Goodnigga: 9:54am On Jul 30, 2022
The Red Pill apologists started with the reawakening of masculinity though can be frustrating to the newbies. Newbies are told how to stop themselves from being manipulated by women of which can be taken too far. I usually say it, there's a level of Red pill you will follow, that you will totally hate women. And how can you marry someone you hate. Many times if I want to hate women, I just come to this section of Nairaland because there will be definitely a post on why women needs to be hated or avoided. Nevertheless, there's truth in Red pill aka masculinity, but it should be BALANCED.What I think is balance is : Give your LOVE( CAC= Compliments + Attention + Care) to a woman that deserves it. Treat her the way she treats you. Love her if she merits it however never fall in love with her, only love her. Love her with your brain not with your heart. And if you must love her with your heart, don't show it. In other words, don't be too mushy mushy about it. Heart love makes men weak, needy and clingy. And
this weaknesses is a disease that women detest so much in men that if you start showing the symptoms THEY MUST MANIPULATE YOU NO MATTER WHAT.

3 Likes 1 Share

Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by odinson1(m): 10:01am On Jul 30, 2022
MayorOfDelta:


You can still dodge all these without being negative towards ALL Women.


When have i ever been negative to All women?
Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by pansophist(m): 10:43am On Jul 30, 2022
@jeshal

If you really do not know that you're negative towards women then quite frankly, I don't think anything I would say matters. Just look at your response to me above, such as referring to women as hoes. I wanted to reply to your mention, then I read this one and asked myself, will you even get it? Your mind is made up.

The general themes of all your write up on this platform can basically be summarised to "woman bad, man good". I read your post often and always shake my head. Quite frankly, you'll live a very depressing life with this mindset. Redpill should awaken you as a man not just as a shield to manipulative women, but a magnet to good women.

If a white man sees you as dumb and a thief by default just for being black/Nigerian, I'm sure youll hate it and call it discrimination, but you're doing this to women and somehow it's justifiable. You call them hoes, manipulative, after your money etc. Shame.

I know loads of good women. They are my family, friends and girlfriend. Also, I know lots of worthless men that if legal, I'll bury bullets in their brain. If you have an extremely negative views of women, it questions you're childhood, whether you ever had the warmth embrace and love from a woman. Men are equally evil.

Last last, what you sow, you shall reap. With your mindset, I only feel sorry any women thay crosses your path. And if good women doesn't always come your way, it's time to look at the man in the mirror.

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Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by Nobody: 10:57am On Jul 30, 2022
pansophist:
@jeshal

If you really do not know that you're negative towards women then quite frankly, I don't think anything I would say matters. Just look at your response to me above, such as referring to women as hoes. I wanted to reply to your mention, then I read this one and asked myself, will you even get it? Your mind is made up.

The general themes of all your write up on this platform can basically be summarised to "woman bad, man good". I read your post often and always shake my head. Quite frankly, you'll live a very depressing life with this mindset. Redpill should awaken you as a man not just as a shield to manipulative women, but a magnet to good women.

If a white man sees you as dumb and a thief by default just for being black/Nigerian, I'm sure youll hate it and call it discrimination, but you're doing this to women and somehow it's justifiable. You call them hoes, manipulative, after your money etc. Shame.

I know loads of good women. They are my family, friends and girlfriend. Also, I know lots of worthless men that if legal, I'll bury bullets in their brain. If you have an extremely negative views of women, it questions you're childhood, whether you ever had the warmth embrace and love from a woman. Men are equally evil.

Last last, what you sow, you shall reap. With your mindset, I only feel sorry any women thay crosses your path. And if good women doesn't always come your way, it's time to look at the man in the mirror.



My issue is that men make foolish life altering decisions with regards to women whether such women are good or bad because of ignorance, I personally dropped out and started shady hustling because I wanted to show status to my one-titis, she didn't do me evil, she wasn't manipulative but I was naive in my early 20's and made her the central of my world using her as a motivation to become successful before 30, I wanted to marry early because of her, redpill made me to be aware of my SMV, that all the unnecessary pressure on myself was foolish, why did I drop out? I went into fraud to show I'm an attractive man to make a woman happy when I was in my 20's

1 Like

Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by MayorOfDelta(m): 11:06am On Jul 30, 2022
odinson1:


When have i ever been negative to All women?

I am not saying you are.. I making reference to the guy in my hostel.
Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by pansophist(m): 11:07am On Jul 30, 2022
JESHAL:


My issue is that men make foolish life altering decisions with regards to women whether such women are good or bad because of ignorance, I personally dropped out and started shady hustling because I wanted to show status to my one-titis, she didn't do me evil, she wasn't manipulative but I was naive in my early 20's and made her the central of my world using her as a motivation to become successful before 30, I wanted to marry early because of her, redpill made me to be aware of my SMV, that all the unnecessary pressure on myself was foolish, why did I drop out? I went into fraud to show I'm an attractive man to make a woman happy when I was in my 20's

The pansophist persona you know on nairaland has also been through pain. Forget all the sweet stories I write about me here, like probably all of us, I've been through hell. Funny enough, my hell came from other men like me, and the people that have made my life far more better were women.

From envy, aggressive hate, jealousy, talk down, being stolen from, defrauded, almost beaten by a gang, all came from men, not women. At most, women will deny you sex and give you false illusion of love, but if you're smart, you'll see their game and just ignore them.

A woman can only use a dumb man. A woman can't use you without permission, so its always good for a man to reflect on himself and not just hate women. If I become stupid, there are millions of men out there that will dupe me off my money, probably even you.

Anyways keep working hard. As you earn more and grow, you'll get more hate from men than women, it's a guarantee. Lots of good women out there have been used, videos published on pornhub against their wish by men, should they hate men?

Humanity is toxic, its not a gender thing. And when you spotlight the toxity of women why smoothly excluding that of men, then you're impartial. The Nigeria of today that is the earthly version of hell is led by men, not women. So we practically made their life worse, how about that?

I've learnt to always look inward, and refuse to be like those who hurt me, that's ultimate strength. I'm not bitter at all, and I try to help as much men as possible through advice. So if a girl broke your heart, it's just a girl, don't extrapolate that pain on every women out there.

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Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by CaveAdullam: 11:53am On Jul 30, 2022
X
Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by Raalsalghul: 6:16pm On Jul 30, 2022
When are these two guys going to realise they're arguing two different concepts? cheesy
Re: My Thoughts On Being An Alpha Male. by Magnoliaa(f): 6:26pm On Jul 30, 2022
Raalsalghul:
When are these two guys going to realise they're arguing two different concepts? cheesy

grin grin Wahala. Two different concepts again? Hian.

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