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Born-Again! Born-Again!! Born-Again!!!

Do we really have 'born-agains'?

What qualifies a person as a born-again?

Are there people that are really, I mean really, free of any sins?

You are free of Stealing, killing, adultery, fornication etc does not make you a true born-again and does not guarantee your salvation.

What about your unnoticed sins - grudges, envy, backbiting and so on. even bad attitude is a sin.

So, no one, I mean NO ONE, is 100% free from all sins, hence no true born-again. Salvation is by His Grace, not by your deeds, may God cleanse us in His own way, lead and guide us rightly on His path to the end.

CodeTemplar:
What is the meaning of "salvation" ?

It mean preservation from destruction or calamity.

that question is a commonsense one for even any averagely smart 6 year old who knows the meaning of salvation.

A christian can loose salvation and not every church goer is Christ-like or a Christian.

Fantastic!

solite3:
we are not in the tribulation yet. I believe in pretribulation rapture and have very good reason to believe it.
What is unbiblical? Rather it is the teaching that a saved person can be unsaved that is actually unbiblical.
A saved person is born of God and can not perish because God keeps him.

Christian can lose his salvation.

Demas did. Paul affirmed that.

Jesus in Matt during the Olivet Discourse also said that, first.


Many of the faith will fall away. Love will wax cold.

So this modern idea of its impossible is all fallacio. Pls read alot about Jesus talk on matters like this. He is the Reason we all have this connect back to God.


Its all about Love. If the love for the world outweigh the love for God and things of God, salvation gets lost.


Else if it cant be lost, why does hell exist? Lemme stop here.

God bless.

Aslong as u have or keep ur faith and work on it that makes u perfect.

as Usual Many Religious People but Less and Less Godly
the Only thing I know Is Salvation is in the End.... Hence Jesus Saying...He that "Endures to the end" would be Saved

Honestly, we are in a very bad generation!

It was those gangsters who entered the pulpit that were propagating '' once saved, forever saved''

In the 70's up till mid 80's, we don't have all these Vagabonds in Church who are propagating nonsense.
Salvation is a free

Salvation is a free gift for us to reconcile back to Christ. Can we lose a free gift? Yes we can, if we don't follow the nitty gritty of the gift. In this case, the ultimate aim is to do the bidding if Christ until we get to heaven.
May be the question should be can a child of God go to hell? Of course they can even though hell is NOT meant for them.

Praivit0:



A lady was a fervent member of her church choir, she got into the university and decided to get a boyfriend.

One day she went to visit her man and she lost her virginity through fornication.


On her way back home, she had a fatal accident and died and ended up in hell.


If you die with an unconfessed sin, you will end up in hell. This story I told isn't fiction. It's a revelation from God.


Let him that has ears hear what the S

Shot up my friend, who told you anybody has gone to hell or has been judged?
So when the day of judgement comes God will bring the lady out of hell, judge her and return her back to hell abi.

Praivit0:



A lady was a fervent member of her church choir, she got into the university and decided to get a boyfriend.

One day she went to visit her man and she lost her virginity through fornication.


On her way back home, she had a fatal accident and died and ended up in hell.


If you die with an unconfessed sin, you will end up in hell. This story I told isn't fiction. It's a revelation from God.


Let him that has ears hear what the S

Did you see her in hell with your two naked eyes?

Who told you She didn't confess before she boarded the vehicle?

Point of correction, no body is in hell right now.

Hell is empty at the moment. Read the whole of Revelation 20 for better understanding.

If it was truly that was via revelation, the spirit would have told you or the person about Revelation 20.

Praivit0:

A lady was a fervent member of her church choir, she got into the university and decided to get a boyfriend.
One day she went to visit her man and she lost her virginity through fornication.
On her way back home, she had a fatal accident and died and ended up in hell.
If you die with an unconfessed sin, you will end up in hell. This story I told isn't fiction. It's a revelation from God.
Let him that has ears hear what the S

4 hours interview in Hell.

I remember that book

Ihedinobi3:

Regarding argument, I generally expect to be challenged about what I teach, and I don't mind the challenge. I much prefer being asked politely for clarification, but I don't choose my audience. There are those too who are offended by any allusion to teaching authority on my part, and they respond with very offensive challenges to what I say. It just comes with the territory, so I don't mind if you want to debate any given point in my submissions. This part of my ministry necessitates that in more than a few cases.

Regarding James 5, as I said before, prayer for those who are suffering the sin unto death is only sanctioned when they themselves return from their bad behavior. If you remember what we learn from 1 Corinthians 5, you can see that such people are supposed to be excluded from the assembly until they stop sinning so blatantly. The example in 1 Corinthians 5 was of a man who was openly parading his father's wife (very likely ex-wife) as his wife. He may have even married her (probably had, judging by how they accepted them in the assembly), but this was a terrible thing to do. Not even unbelievers would do such a thing with a straight face. In other words, this was an open sin, a failure that was out in the open, and one in which the believer in question was indulging with no remorse. A similar example would be a believer who is openly dishonest in business and is not shy of it, but still comes to the assembly to ostensibly encourage others in the Truth. That is a terrible witness to the Lord. Allowing such a thing would communicate that we approve of it, and, since we as a group are together ostensibly for the Lord, that the Lord does too. For this reason, the church is supposed to remove the person from among them and refuse to associate with him until he stops what he is doing wrong that is giving the Lord such a bad name.

The passage in James 5 is concerned with the return of such a believer. When he realizes that his suffering is from the Lord and confesses his sin to the Lord, he can go to the pastor-teacher(s) in charge of the assembly and ask to be brought back into the church. In the days of the Apostles, at that substantive time in history, oil had medical properties (it still does, but we don't recognize it as much), so it was applied in medical situations. So the pastor-teacher was to intercede for the repentant believer and give what medical help he could and receive him back into the assembly. That is to say, intercession was only done because he had quit his sin.

This dovetails with what John teaches in 1 John 5. We are not commanded to or encouraged to intercede for someone who is sinning openly, in a way that gives a bad witness about the Lord. That person is courting trouble with the Lord and we are rather to isolate them spiritually and leave the Lord to sort that out. That is what we are taught in the Bible.

As for the sin that cannot be forgiven, it is unbelief. That is the only sin that costs us eternal life. If we refuse to believe the Gospel, we will not be saved. If we first believe and then turn around and stop believing, we will not be saved. That is the unforgivable sin, and it is the same thing that Paul speaks of in Hebrews 10. If we reject the Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus, then there is no other Sacrifice by which we can be saved. Unbelief is the sin that cannot be forgiven. It is not the same as the sin unto death. The sin unto death is a discipline from the Lord that is administered to end a believer's bad witness to the Lord.

You have deviated from the bone of contention and are teaching the need for repentance on the believer's part before we can intercede for him which i have never disputed, i only said that it is in this natural consequences of sin that we were ever expected to intercede unlike in the case of sin unto spiritual death. No problem then, since I've done enough in previous posts to show you that John meant spiritual death (and you have failed to counter that from his context and entire letter) and i have differentiated that from sin with strictly natural consequences(including natural death) and have not disputed that unbelief or rejection of faith is the unforgivable sin, we'll just have to let time teach us whether the sin unto death John spoke of was apostasy(unbelief) or not. God bless you.

ichuka:

Hi bro
These topic had been trashed here in NL.
Christains need to understand the full/correct meaning of Mercy/Grace of God.

So grace is the permission to continue in sin, most the church goers and bench warmers are twisting the word of God, David was under old covenant and he was punished for his sin, he lost four son's according to what he said to Nathan the prophet, read your Bible and let it work in your head forget head knowledge of the Bible, it takes to hell without it been put into deed

CaveAdullam:
You would have merge this comment in your post solite3 because you just hit the nail on the head without looking backward.

There is a difference between REWARD AND SALVATION, and this is where the problem really lies when it comes to the issue of eternal security. Once you are sealed by the Holy Spirit, nothing in heaven, on earth and beneath the earth can separate you from the love of God in Christ Jesus.

If a Christian die in sin which I STILL THINK IS IMPOSSIBLE; BECAUSE OF THE QUICK CONVICTIONS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, THAT CHRISTIAN WILL LOSE HIS REWARD BUT NOT ETERNAL LIFE.

And If we have an understanding about the spiritual world we wouldn't be arguing about this. The call and final quest by Rick Joyner, spiritual world by Peter Tan and Gospel dialogue by watchman Nee are books that are of great help in regards to this topic.

Thanks.

God bless.

thanks sir for this, God bless you.

Why do I have to confess my sins when Christ has already died for my sins?
Why are we hellbound by default?
What does God enjoy from us burning in hell for all eternity?
Age of enlightenment is here.

solite3:
fire brand? You dont know what it means to be born from above hence your argument.
If she had a new birth she wouldnt have died in sin.
You think people die by mistake? Not even a single bird who are lesser animals die outside the knowledge of the father how much more humans.
Look when one is born again, he is regenerated spiritually and passed from death to life. Furthermore the holy Spirit takes permanent residence in him. He has eternal life and the father and Jesus Christ keeps him to the end as the Holy Spirit in him is also his seal until the appearance of Christ.
If a bornagain Christian do sin, the spirit in him will convict him and lead him to repentance. God through hardship, or through other believers will put him back on track and because of his regenerated state he will obey the voice of christ and as a Son he will remember his father.

The story of the prodigal son very much explains things.
The prodigal son departure was cut short by events that happened to him and guess who is in charge of times and happenings? Yes God.
Secondly he remembered where he belonged and guess who made him remembered? (the holy Spirit) and whose voice he heard? (Jesus)
The father knew his son would return home because he was his Son.

Although there is a loss of reward but his soul was saved.

A bornagain christian can lose his reward in heaven but God would make sure he or she gets home safe.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.




1 Corinthians 3:13-15 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Very Apt. I wanted to do a write up like this when I am back from church. Thank God the phronesis dwells with you.


Salvation is not a garment you wear and just drop, God is not a God that writes your name on the book of life and deletes it because you sinned.

You don't loose your fathers name because you were brought home by a police officer or you committed murder.


Romans 8 tells us how nothing can separate us from the Love of Christ. Its an unconditional love, one that doesn't fluctuate with our foolishness.

Finallydead:


You have deviated from the bone of contention and are teaching the need for repentance on the believer's part before we can intercede for him which i have never disputed, i only said that it is in this natural consequences of sin that we were ever expected to intercede unlike in the case of sin unto spiritual death. No problem then, since I've done enough in previous posts to show you that John meant spiritual death (and you have failed to counter that from his context and entire letter) and i have differentiated that from sin with strictly natural consequences(including natural death) and have not disputed that unbelief or rejection of faith is the unforgivable sin, we'll just have to let time teach us whether the sin unto death John spoke of was apostasy(unbelief) or not. God bless you.

Perhaps I misunderstood your challenge, but it seemed to me that you were saying that I was wrong to say that the sin unto death was a discipline meted out by the Lord to a believer who is sinning in a grievous and open way. That is what I have been answering.

My response is that John was not speaking of committing any kind of sin that would lead to loss of eternal life, since there is no such thing. John himself teaches throughout that letter that even believers sin, and that when we do, we ought to confess our sin to the Lord and accept His Forgiveness and leave it in the past and keep advancing in our Faith. He was clear too that we ought not to sin at all, and that our Salvation is secure as long as we believe (see Chapter 2 especially for this). What he says about death in Chapter 3 is indeed in the context of Salvation, of being part of the Church, but that is different from what he says in Chapter 5 about sinning unto death.

I am treating all of the Bible as one document. What John speaks of is the same thing that Paul speaks of in 1 Corinthians and that James speaks of in his own letter. However, if you want to deal only with the context of John, then you cannot ignore what is being said in that particular statement in order to make it the same as what he says in another part of his letter. The fact that he mentioned death before is not proof that his mention of it here is in the same sense.

If John was saying that we should not intercede for any believer who is apostatizing, then how does that agree with the rest of the Bible? We are told to be careful to avoid associating with believers who are sinning arrogantly and publicly. It only follows that when the Lord responds to their foolishness with a grievous discipline, we ought not to intercede for them, since it will only oppose the Lord's Will, if we do. We can only pray for the Lord to heal the suffering that He has inflicted when they repent just as James and Paul teach in James 5 and 2 Corinthians 2 respectively. But we can also pray that a believer who is sinning in that manner can be brought by the Lord to a humble repentance so that they do not end up either losing all of their eternal reward through the sin unto death or apostasy. That would agree with the spirit of the Bible. It can even occasion discipline that will bring such a believer to their senses. We are not told then to not pray for those weak believers who are sinful and stumbling (see Jude1:22-23, for example).

This is what I have said repeatedly to you. I don't demand that you agree. I am only explaining to you what I believe the Bible teaches and what I teach. If you don't agree with it, I cannot do more than I have done. But I certainly will not do less by choosing to stop believing it just because you disapprove. I hope that you can understand that.

CaveAdullam:
You would have merge this comment in your post solite3 because you just hit the nail on the head without looking backward.

There is a difference between REWARD AND SALVATION, and this is where the problem really lies when it comes to the issue of eternal security. Once you are sealed by the Holy Spirit, nothing in heaven, on earth and beneath the earth can separate you from the love of God in Christ Jesus.

If a Christian die in sin which I STILL THINK IS IMPOSSIBLE; BECAUSE OF THE QUICK CONVICTIONS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, THAT CHRISTIAN WILL LOSE HIS REWARD BUT NOT ETERNAL LIFE.

And If we have an understanding about the spiritual world we wouldn't be arguing about this. The call and final quest by Rick Joyner, spiritual world by Peter Tan and Gospel dialogue by watchman Nee are books that are of great help in regards to this topic.

Thanks.

God bless.

that particular book? (The call) Do u have the e-copy ..I once read it and it changed alot of things in my beliefs


But ..can u defend this your sayings with this scripture? Luke 13 :1-4?

Ihedinobi3:

Perhaps I misunderstood your challenge, but it seemed to me that you were saying that I was wrong to say that the sin unto death was a discipline meted out by the Lord to a believer who is sinning in a grievous and open way. That is what I have been answering.

My response is that John was not speaking of committing any kind of sin that would lead to loss of eternal life, since there is no such thing. John himself teaches throughout that letter that even believers sin, and that when we do, we ought to confess our sin to the Lord and accept His Forgiveness and leave it in the past and keep advancing in our Faith. He was clear too that we ought not to sin at all, and that our Salvation is secure as long as we believe (see Chapter 2 especially for this). What he says about death in Chapter 3 is indeed in the context of Salvation, of being part of the Church, but that is different from what he says in Chapter 5 about sinning unto death.

I am treating all of the Bible as one document. What John speaks of is the same thing that Paul speaks of in 1 Corinthians and that James speaks of in his own letter. However, if you want to deal only with the context of John, then you cannot ignore what is being said in that particular statement in order to make it the same as what he says in another part of his letter. The fact that he mentioned death before is not proof that his mention of it here is in the same sense.

If John was saying that we should not intercede for any believer who is apostatizing, then how does that agree with the rest of the Bible? We are told to be careful to avoid associating with believers who are sinning arrogantly and publicly. It only follows that when the Lord responds to their foolishness with a grievous discipline, we ought not to intercede for them, since it will only oppose the Lord's Will, if we do. We can only pray for the Lord to heal the suffering that He has inflicted when they repent just as James and Paul teach in James 5 and 2 Corinthians 2 respectively. But we can also pray that a believer who is sinning in that manner can be brought by the Lord to a humble repentance so that they do not end up either losing all of their eternal reward through the sin unto death or apostasy. That would agree with the spirit of the Bible. It can even occasion discipline that will bring such a believer to their senses. We are not told then to not pray for those weak believers who are sinful and stumbling (see Jude1:22-23, for example).

This is what I have said repeatedly to you. I don't demand that you agree. I am only explaining to you what I believe the Bible teaches and what I teach. If you don't agree with it, I cannot do more than I have done. But I certainly will not do less by choosing to stop believing it just because you disapprove. I hope that you can understand that.

Good. At least you're back on the bone of contention. I'm doing this, giving you the benefit of doubt that you aren't one of those who can't admit to a slight mistake, expecting Christlike maturity from your end, at least from your posts. From my first reply to you, I acknowledged that your general understanding of doctrine is balanced ENOUGH, at least to keep you on the right track, I won't have if I didn't ALREADY believe in line with most of what you believe. But the problem in this case is not a wrong doctrine as i already share that same belief you have but a wrong scripture you use for a right doctrine. Now as regards to who should believe what the bible says, i think its relative between us. If John referred to natural death, he would have asked us not to pray for that only on the condition that the person does not repent or God does not permit just like Paul did in 1Cor 5 and which James says that we should confess our sin before prayer is made. Now clearly, no condition was attached and that is because it is in the same line with Lk12:10, Heb 10:28 and Heb 6:4 which all maintain the same unconditional tone. All these scriptures are what the bible teaches, so my taking them together as fellow witnesses shows that I agree with scriptural teaching and I am not bringing a false doctrine. The point in john is simple, without condition, he says don't pray for it because it is the sin that will never be forgiven and there is no sacrifice for it. Again you have not shown any basis from his context to believe that John meant natural death but I have shown that spiritual death was meant from the context in 1Jn 5:11-12, life is to eternal life as death is to eternal death, as also throughout his letter. You can choose to take it in light of what James taught(which I know it is not) but I have chosen to take in light of the three scriptures aforementioned. So both of us are scriptural(although you keep making it look like it isn't from scripture that i am confirming it) but only one of us is right, so I leave it to the Holy Spirit to reveal as he has already done to me. In the end, I am not correcting your doctrine but your choice of scripture passage for the doctrine and I also don't demand you agree with me but I am only showing what scripture really means. God bless.

OP please, you have not only lost it but you want to confuse others and put them on the highway to hellfire.

Let me ask you two questions:
1. Would it be right to say that the 12 disciples of Jesus were born again? I believe they were as they were even commissioned to preach and heal (Matt 10:1 - 4)
2. Would it be right to say that Judas Iscariots who was born again is now in heaven, haven received "eternal life"as you try to posit up there? Again, I believe Judas Iscariots did not make it to heaven due to his sins, though he was born again. Jesus Himself testified to this. (John 17:12-13)

Dear readers, do not be deceived by lying lips and itchy ears. God almighty said of Eli and his family
"Therefore the Lord God of Israel says: ‘I said indeed that your house and the house of your father would walk before Me forever.’ But now the Lord says: ‘Far be it from Me; for those who honor Me I will honor, and those who despise Me shall be lightly esteemed." - 1 Samuel 2:30

When the Bible talks about our born again nature, it means that it is our spirit that has become new, not our soul or body. The soul and the body will be in the process of becoming like Christ by renewing our mind.

Finallydead:


Good. At least you're back on the bone of contention. I'm doing this, giving you the benefit of doubt that you aren't one of those who can't admit to a slight mistake, expecting Christlike maturity from your end, at least from your posts. From my first reply to you, I acknowledged that your general understanding of doctrine is balanced ENOUGH, at least to keep you on the right track, I won't have if I didn't ALREADY believe in line with most of what you believe. But the problem in this case is not a wrong doctrine as i already share that same belief you have but a wrong scripture you use for a right doctrine. Now as regards to who should believe what the bible says, i think its relative between us. If John referred to natural death, he would have asked us not to pray for that only on the condition that the person does not repent or God does not permit just like Paul did in 1Cor 5 and which James says that we should confess our sin before prayer is made. Now clearly, no condition was attached and that is because it is in the same line with Lk12:10, Heb 10:28 and Heb 6:4 which all maintain the same unconditional tone. All these scriptures are what the bible teaches, so my taking them together as fellow witnesses shows that I agree with scriptural teaching and I am not bringing a false doctrine. The point in john is simple, without condition, he says don't pray for it because it is the sin that will never be forgiven and there is no sacrifice for it. Again you have not shown any basis from his context to believe that John meant natural death but I have shown that spiritual death was meant from the context in 1Jn 5:11-12, life is to eternal life as death is to eternal death, as also throughout his letter. You can choose to take it in light of what James taught(which I know it is not) but I have chosen to take in light of the three scriptures aforementioned. So both of us are scriptural(although you keep making it look like it isn't from scripture that i am confirming it) but only one of us is right, so I leave it to the Holy Spirit to reveal as he has already done to me. In the end, I am not correcting your doctrine but your choice of scripture passage for the doctrine and I also don't demand you agree with me but I am only showing what scripture really means. God bless.

I never left the "bone of contention," as you call it. Was I wrong that you were challenging what I said about the sin unto death?

For what it is worth, I will explain myself to you:

I am a pastor-teacher by gifting and ministry. I have been trained in the Scriptures by another pastor-teacher whose ministry I continue to rely on until I am able to gain solid facility with the original languages. What I do on Nairaland, and have been doing for the past thirteen to fifteen months is in one sense practice and in another actual full-fledged ministry. It's just like the early missions that trained soldiers fresh from the boot camp are sent to.

In other words, I'm not on Nairaland to be taught anything. That does not mean that I cannot learn here, but what I learn and how I learn is exactly the same as what a soldier in combat learns. There are very rare instances when I do come in contact with others who do love the Bible here and that is always a most pleasant experience. Given a chance in such situations, I can actually learn from the believer in question. But, mostly, in fact, I could almost say entirely, I have been learning through my engagement with others here. Nearly everyone I have spoken with on this platform has no love for the Truth. When my understanding of the Truth is improved, it is because I see how it works when I wield it against the lies here. That is one reason that I keep engaging. I basically test myself through these encounters and exercise my understanding and appreciation of the Truth through these engagements.

The other reason is that every conversation that I have here is one that I collect to share with believers who love the Truth too. Such believers come to see how different kinds of lies work and how they trap weak believers and how even fellow believers can become enemies of the Truth when they allow themselves to be deceived. They also learn just how to use the Truth to protect themselves against such lies. That is my ministry here.

I do hope that some of the people I converse with will end up carrying seeds of Truth in their heart that may be watered by other encounters that they have with other servants of God so that they too will eventually be set free from the lies that have captured them, but I don't expect or insist on that possibility. That is why I am never particular about debate here.

I would much rather just enjoy teaching the Truth to a receptive audience or basically read people respectfully helping each other understand the Truth better by showing aspects and sides of it that they have grown very conversant with to others who may not be so conversant with it. That is a joy, believe me. But it is not nearly a common thing. In fact, it is a very rare situation where people who love the Truth discuss it with each other resulting in greater understanding and agreement among all parties involved. I'm blessed to have it at my church (that is, at https://ichthys.com), but elsewhere, anything involving the Truth has eventually occasioned a battle for me.

So, while I would be very pleased to find another brother who loves the Truth in you, I have grown quite wary of people who seek to associate with me, especially when they do so in order to "correct" my teaching. Suffice to say that it is unlikely that I will ever allow that to happen unless I am persuaded by the Scriptures themselves that I am in error somewhere. And I have been studying the Bible since childhood. I didn't understand it very much until I was brought to a pastor-teacher by the Lord late in 2017. But since that time, my understanding of it has been growing exponentially, and I am most grateful for the light that shines ever brighter in my heart since then.

I fight now to teach what I am convinced is what the Bible actually says. I am careful, very careful to make sure that that is the case. When I am not sure, I make the effort to avoid teaching it. So, whenever you read anything I write on this platform, be sure that I have looked at it from all the angles I can find in the Bible. There are times when I do fall into error, yes, but that is not normal to me, and I generally self-correct. I don't remember any instance where I didn't catch my own error. Usually, those I converse with may feel that they exposed my error to me, but I actually reread everything I post on this platform multiple times and often make adjustments without any reference to other people's arguments.

In this matter that we are discussing, I do not believe that you are right at all. I am totally convinced that I interpreted 1 John 5:16 correctly. I have attempted to explain to you why I am convinced that my interpretation is correct, but obviously you do not accept my arguments. That is fine by me. You are not obliged to agree with me, especially if doing so violates your conscience. However, the Truth is a very precious thing. It is the food, the sustenance of the children of God bought by very Precious Blood. Whenever anyone teaches it erroneously, it poisons the food. That means that the children are poisoned when they receive it. God does not take such a thing lightly. There are no stronger warnings in the Bible against anything than false teaching. Two whole letters were written in the New Testament against false teachers, and our Lord Jesus gave very stringent warnings against false teaching in Luke 17.

This matters to me as a pastor-teacher, and I'll freely tell you that at a point in my life, I really did not want this gift. It is a great gift to be given to anyone, the greatest gift given today in the Church now that Apostles and Prophets have been removed from the Church. But it is the most dangerous gift to have. If one poisons the children of God, it does not matter at all if one did it ignorantly, there will be so much consequence to pay for it that one is better off not even being born in the first place.

That is why I refuse to let anyone "correct" my teaching. If you do not agree with what I teach, that is fine by me. If you need me to explain it or prove that the Bible does teach what I say, I will go as far as is reasonable to do so, but if you try to "correct" it, I will not let you.

I have offered corrections to other people who have presented themselves as teachers. In fact, that was what I was doing on this thread. I do that sometimes when it is a false teaching and I wish to leave a witness for any believer who reads the thread. That way, those who have a heart for the Truth will find a beacon showing them what it is and where they may find more of it. I do it sometimes when I hope to help a brother or sister who seems to know something of the Truth and loves it and might accept my help to understand it better. If the people I offer my help to reject it, I move on and leave them to their devices. In other words, I minister to others. I have already been ministered to and am growing more and more able to take care of my own self, so I generally don't need anyone to "correct" me on the field.

I have nothing more to say concerning the sin unto death. I don't know how else I can explain what I believe in the matter. John did not need to qualify his statement or provide any conditions in the matter, if Paul had already written about it more comprehensively, at least for us who inherited the completed Bible from that generation. Besides what they wrote, which captured the full Revelation of the Truth that we need to know to finish our course in this world, they did teach their charges orally, so it is not beyond possibility that the primary recipients of John's letter already had the context that we are provided with in 1 Corinthians 5 in order to understand what John was reiterating to them.

As I said, the sin unto death is actually a very well documented divine discipline in the Bible. It happens on a corporate and also on an individual scale, with the Lord first warning the recipients with mild punishments regarding their bad witness and then steadily escalating His warnings and judgments until He kills or destroys them from the earth. That is what He did to the nations Israel and Judah, what He did to whole houses descended from one patriarch or another (the house of Eli, for example), what He did to King Saul, what He did to the man in 1 Corinthians 5, what He did to Ananias and Sapphira, and what He did to Hymenaeus and Alexander, and to the Corinthian church because of the Lord's Supper. It's very well documented.

You don't have to take my word for it. You can read the Bible for yourself. You obviously have.

If the Lord does discipline His children right up to the point of killing them when they continue to sin grievously without confessing, then it is only to be expected that that is what John would mean in that verse. If the Scriptures are clear that one does not "sin unto the loss of eternal life," then that is not what John can be expected to mean in that verse.

We do not interfere in the Lord's Discipline when it has turned to the sin unto death, that is, when He begins to administer the discipline that will result in their death or, in the case of a nation, for example, destruction (Jeremiah 7:16; 11:14; 14:11; 1 Samuel 16:1). That is what we are told in the Bible. We certainly ought to pray that the Lord deliver those who are heading for Apostasy from their folly (Jude 1:23). It may be that it is the discipline of the sin unto death that will save them from throwing their Faith away.

Yes they can. I was a born again before I realised it was all a scam. I know many like me. I even know quite a few who are still currently churchy but are getting more disillusioned by the day.

solite3:
The answer to that question biblically is a resounding, clear, emphatic, joyful, glorious “No.” A born-again person cannot become dead, cannot be unborn again. I will give some biblical thinking here, trying to be as textual as possible, and not just theological.

No Dropouts

The life that is imparted in the new birth is precisely eternal life. “This is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life [has given us eternal life], and this life is in his Son” (1 John 5:11). So he didn’t give us temporary life. He gave us eternal life. We are already participating in the life of the age to come.

“If you are called, you cannot lose your salvation.”

Here is another crucial word: “Those whom he predestined.” This is from Romans 8:30: “Those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.” Now, glorification is the final state of permanent salvation. This verse says that all the called — with nobody dropping out — are justified, and all the justified — with nobody dropping out — are glorified.

So the answer is this: If you are called, you cannot lose your salvation. And I am going to argue that being called and being born again are identical biblical categories. We will be justified, and we will be glorified, because we have been called — that is, we have been born again.

Beckoned to Life

The kind of call Paul is talking about in Romans 8:30 is the call of Lazarus, by Jesus, from the grave: “Lazarus, I know you are dead. Now come out” (see John 11:43). The call creates the life, and that is what happened to everybody who is a Christian: God’s sovereign call created the life. That means that there is a promise attached to the call.

Here are a few texts that show this connection. First Thessalonians 5:23–24 says, “May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely . . . at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it.” So the logic here is: If you have been called, God is faithful. You will be kept for the last day.

Or here it is again in 1 Corinthians 1:8–9: Christ “will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son.” So now you can go back and see why (in Romans 8:30) all the called are justified, and all the justified are glorified — because God is faithful. There is nothing automatic.

Preservation of the Predestined

A lot of people think eternal security is like a vaccination. They think, “When I was 6 years old, I prayed, and God vaccinated my arm. Therefore, I can’t get the disease of damnation.” That is not the way it is. Rather, it is more like entering lifetime therapy with a doctor who says, “You are my patient. You will do what I say, and I will get you to the end, whole in the last day.”

Here is Jeremiah 32:40, which has to be one of my all-time favorite verses on perseverance: “I will make with them an everlasting covenant, that I will not turn away from doing good to them. And I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me.” So the new covenant that Jesus bought with his blood is a covenant of preservation. It is not just security in some mechanical way. It is preservation in an active way. God is active in my life.


“Perseverance in faith is the evidence that we have been made part of Christ.”



When I ask people, “How do you know you are going to be a Christian when you wake up in the morning?” a lot of people are kind of shocked by the question. They respond, “Oh, because, you know, it is like being human.” No, it is not like being human. You will wake up a Christian tomorrow morning because God is faithful. God will wake you up and awaken in you his faith.

Faithfully He Keeps

Here are a couple more verses that highlight God’s faithfulness: “I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion” (Philippians 1:6). The reason Paul talks like that is because of the way God’s faithfulness connects to his call, his new birth.

Or Jude 24: “Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling . . .” I preached on this verse a while back, because I was, at age 67, just finishing up my pastoral ministry. I am overwhelmed by the fact that God kept me.

He kept me. He didn’t let me fall down and bring reproach upon his name and destroy the church. I don’t look back on that and put my thumb in my armpits and say, “What a good boy am I.” I say, “Amazing! Amazing! Now unto him who kept me and will keep me . . .”

Anchor of Our Assurance

This leaves, I think, only one key question that people always have and should have: “Well, what about people who are in the church? They have been deacons or elders, and they look like they were saved in college. Here they are five years later, and they have thrown it all away. Some of them die in that condition. What about them?”

I think there are two key verses that people should think about long and hard. First John 2:19: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.” The words of us in that verse surely mean “born again with us, grafted into Christ with us” — and they weren’t. They looked like they were. They said some of the right things. They had “tasted . . . the powers of the age to come” (Hebrews 6:5). But they were not born of God.

“You will wake up a Christian tomorrow morning because God is faithful.”

Additionally, Hebrews 6 is a big stumbling block for people about the kinds of spiritual experiences a person can have and still be lost. But Hebrews 3:14, I think, is an absolute key verse in that book: “We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.”

The author doesn’t say, “If you hold your confidence firm to the end, you will get a share in Christ.” He says, “We know that we have had — from the beginning of our lives with Christ — a share in Christ, because we endure to the end.” This means perseverance in faith is the evidence that we have been made part of Christ.

And when that perseverance doesn’t hold, then we were never in the assurance. Here is the key: The assurance, therefore, is not automatic. It is assurance rooted in our confidence in an absolutely sovereign, covenant-keeping God, who gave his Son on behalf of sinners so that, as we look to him, the Holy Spirit testifies to us that we are the children of God (Romans 8:16).

www.desiringGod .org.com

nonsense from the pit of hell

ichuka:

Hi bro
These topic had been trashed here in NL.
Christains need to understand the full/correct meaning of Mercy/Grace of God.
Even in the OT the Mercy of God in the life of David was SURE!!thats no matter what David did,Mercy covers all.
That's the sole reason the Kingdom wasn't taken away from his linage.
Isaiah55:3..,Incline your ear, and come to Me. Hear, and your soul shall live; And I will make an everlasting covenant with you— The sure mercies of David.

eyah
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Maybe you should know that out of 12 tribes of Israel, 10 were taken away from his generation only two they end up with his son?


Don't change, u will know that there what we call hell and day of judgement, it not day of moimoi

solite3:
we are not in the tribulation yet. I believe in pretribulation rapture and have very good reason to believe it.
What is unbiblical? Rather it is the teaching that a saved person can be unsaved that is actually unbiblical.
A saved person is born of God and can not perish because God keeps him.

Hey!! Judas was once saved but when he forsook God he perished. Demas, Soul the king and many others...."once save forever save" is a false doctrine please....

If you die with any sin no matter how small it is, you will end in hell no matter how you claim to be born again.

zyzxx:
eyah
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Maybe you should know that out of 12 tribes of Israel, 10 were taken away from his generation only two they end up with his son?


Don't change, u will know that there what we call hell and day of judgement, it not day of moimoi

You guys are missing it
If you are truly save and the Spirit of God is in charge of your life then where comes the sins?

Ihedinobi3:

Hello ichuka.

Hyper-Calvinism is popular and, unfortunately, wrong. Its popularity is only a problem because it is wrong. It is not wrong just because it is popular.

God's Predestination or Foreordination of believers does not remove our free will. Minus free will, there is no reason for man's existence at all, much less for the things we go through here on earth.

God has always been and always is omniscient. So He chose us to be saved before we were even created because He knew that we will choose to be saved during our lives here on Earth. That is what Predestination means. It does not mean that we had no choice but to be saved. Only those who choose to believe in Jesus Christ and hold on to that faith in Him until the end of their mortal lives are saved. This is a matter of choice as the Bible teaches. No one is forced to love the Lord or to believe in Him. No one is forced not to love the Lord or to believe in Him. See John 3:16-21; 1:12.

As long as we choose to believe, we are saved. The Image of God that we possess means that it is only us who can decide our fate. Not even the Lord Himself interferes in our choice, how much less any creature. This is what makes our eternal salvation so safe. The freedom of our will is guaranteed by the Lord God Himself. Nobody can tamper with our right to choose. If we want to be saved, there is no force in Heaven, on earth, or under the earth that can stop us from being saved. If we don't want to be saved, the same is true: nothing can make us saved. It is entirely up to us to choose. The work for our Salvation has already been done by the Lord Himself. Ours is merely to decide if we want it to apply to us or not, and to hold on to our choice when it is made.

So, for example, Pharaoh decides that he will only rebel against the Lord. Not even the great plagues that the Lord unleashes upon him stop him from doing so. In fact, with every new plague, he only chooses to harden himself more against the Lord. The Bible does say that the Lord Himself hardened him, but that only means that the Lord provided him with special enabling to harden himself. Our free will is powered by the Lord Himself, so if He does not provide us with the ability to exercise it, we simply would not be able to choose anything at all. The choosing is done entirely by us, but it is the Lord who provides us with the ability to choose in the first place.

So, the fact that the Bible teaches the Predestination or Foreordination of believers does not at all mean that a true believer cannot choose to throw his faith away. The Lord Jesus taught us the exact opposite in Matthew 13. We can choose to stop believing. We ought not to, but we can. If we want to avoid being seduced or threatened into doing so, then we ought to grow spiritually and become able to stand resolute in our faith no matter what lies we are told or what we are threatened with (Ephesians 4:11-16).

Hi big bro
How can something that's Eternal be lost?
Can God contradict Himself?No!!
He said whosoever believes,receives Eternal Life.not temporary but Eternal Life.
The Kingdom is different from eternal life.
The Kingdom can be lost but not His Life in us.

ichuka:

Hi big bro
How can something that's Eternal be lost?

This is how:

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1 John 5:11-12 (KJV)

That is to say, only as long as we have the Son of God do we have eternal life. If we give up the Son of God, we give up eternal life as well.

As 2 Timothy 2:11 says, we can disown the Son. If we do, then He too will disown us. When that happens, we no longer have eternal life.

ichuka:

Hi big bro
How can something that's Eternal be lost?
Can God contradict Himself?No!!
He said whosoever believes,receives Eternal Life.not temporary but Eternal Life.
The Kingdom is different from eternal life.
The Kingdom can be lost but not His Life in us.

Regarding your edit, I don't see anything about losing the Kingdom in the Bible. What does that mean? And where do you see it in the Bible?

Also, the Bible does teach the following:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son...
Colossians 1:13 (KJV)

That is to say, if we "lose" the Kingdom of God's dear Son, then we are back in the power of darkness. That would mean that we are back to being unsaved.

Edited

ichuka:

Hi bro
These topic had been trashed here in NL.
Christains need to understand the full/correct meaning of Mercy/Grace of God.
Even in the OT the Mercy of God in the life of David was SURE!!thats no matter what David did,Mercy covers all.
That's the sole reason the Kingdom wasn't taken away from his linage.
Isaiah55:3..,Incline your ear, and come to Me. Hear, and your soul shall live; And I will make an everlasting covenant with you— The sure mercies of David.

I have Satanic bible and all your comments seem to be lifted from there.

Are you a member of Church of Satan?

ichuka:

Hi bro
These topic had been trashed here in NL.
Christains need to understand the full/correct meaning of Mercy/Grace of God.
Even in the OT the Mercy of God in the life of David was SURE!!thats no matter what David did,Mercy covers all.
That's the sole reason the Kingdom wasn't taken away from his linage.
Isaiah55:3..,Incline your ear, and come to Me. Hear, and your soul shall live; And I will make an everlasting covenant with you— The sure mercies of David.

I read a story narrated by Kenneth Hagin, Jesus was teaching him about demon possession. He saw a vision of a lady who happens to be pastors wife. He knows them very well. The lady left her husband. God was trying to tell Kenneth Hagin about what happened to the woman. The woman was born again, spirit filled. Satan tempted him by saying "oh lady, if not that you're born again, you would have gain power and firm with your beautiful look and voice" she knew it was Satan and rebuke him, later the same talk came and she pondered over it then her husband was no longer appealing to her again. She divorced him, dated another, left the man, to another man. Jesus said if she had repented, she would have forgiven her and restore her. But something happened. During those times she backslided church member always come around to try and win her back. Until one day, a church member met her in a hotel room and tried winning her over, she said "as long as Christ is concern to hell with all of you". Kenneth hagain said immediately, her spirit was full of darkness. Jesus told Kenneth, she has made her choice, she ha rejected me. It is impossible to save her now because she has embrace darkness. This story plus others. It is very possible for one to loose his/her salvation. Read the triumphant church by Kenneth Hagin