solite3:
fire brand? You dont know what it means to be born from above hence your argument.
If she had a new birth she wouldnt have died in sin.
You think people die by mistake? Not even a single bird who are lesser animals die outside the knowledge of the father how much more humans.
Look when one is born again, he is regenerated spiritually and passed from death to life. Furthermore the holy Spirit takes permanent residence in him. He has eternal life and the father and Jesus Christ keeps him to the end as the Holy Spirit in him is also his seal until the appearance of Christ.
If a bornagain Christian do sin, the spirit in him will convict him and lead him to repentance. God through hardship, or through other believers will put him back on track and because of his regenerated state he will obey the voice of christ and as a Son he will remember his father.

The story of the prodigal son very much explains things.
The prodigal son departure was cut short by events that happened to him and guess who is in charge of times and happenings? Yes God.
Secondly he remembered where he belonged and guess who made him remembered? (the holy Spirit) and whose voice he heard? (Jesus)
The father knew his son would return home because he was his Son.

Although there is a loss of reward but his soul was saved.

A bornagain christian can lose his reward in heaven but God would make sure he or she gets home safe.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.




1 Corinthians 3:13-15 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Hebrews 6:4-6 King James Version (KJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

solite3:
The answer to that question biblically is a resounding, clear, emphatic, joyful, glorious “No.”

I stopped reading at this point. Please, stop misleading people. Let the Christians take heed that they not fall. Let them always pray to overcome temptations that could lead them astray from God's Kingdom

Ihedinobi3:


In other words, I'm not on Nairaland to be taught anything. That does not mean that I cannot learn here, but what I learn and how I learn is exactly the same as what a soldier in combat learns.

I have grown quite wary of people who seek to associate with me, especially when they do so in order to "correct" my teaching. Suffice to say that it is unlikely that I will ever allow that to happen unless I am persuaded by the Scriptures themselves that I am in error somewhere. And I have been studying the Bible since childhood.

That is why I refuse to let anyone "correct" my teaching. If you do not agree with what I teach, that is fine by me. If you need me to explain it or prove that the Bible does teach what I say, I will go as far as is reasonable to do so, but if you try to "correct" it, I will not let you.

I have already been ministered to and am growing more and more able to take care of my own self, so I generally don't need anyone to "correct" me on the field.

This has been our issue all along and is why I will cease to reply your post on this matter. You may sugarcoat this but fact is you are not willing to learn from anyone here except your mentor you spoke of. I know I only know very little and am very willing to learn from even a little child if he knows something I don't and I have learnt things from people I have ministered to. God doesn't give you ministry because your knowledge is impeccable but so you may grow in the knowledge of Him as you also teach. You have a lot to learn in this journey brother, we all do. This character of yours is a weightier issue than just correct/wrong doctrine which God is more concerned about. We all have spots and are therefore expected to first acknowledge them and then pray until we receive grace to conform to His spotless image. Do this and you will be greater in His kingdom than just one having knowledge (1Cor 8:1-3)

There are times when I do fall into error, yes, but that is not normal to me, and I generally self-correct. I don't remember any instance where I didn't catch my own error.

If you have not been corrected by others even if its those who know less and you only self-correct, you are not worthy to correct others.

I do hope that some of the people I converse with will end up carrying seeds of Truth in their heart that may be watered by other encounters that they have with other servants of God so that they too will eventually be set free from the lies that have captured them, but I don't expect or insist on that possibility.

You may have served this medicine to others and also from time to time need it from others, that's why we are a body

In fact, it is a very rare situation where people who love the Truth discuss it with each other resulting in greater understanding and agreement among all parties involved.

when you really love truth, you will HATE your ego if it ever comes between you and truth.

I fight now to teach what I am convinced is what the Bible actually says. I am careful, very careful to make sure that that is the case. When I am not sure, I make the effort to avoid teaching it. So, whenever you read anything I write on this platform, be sure that I have looked at it from all the angles I can find in the Bible.

We can look from all angles, think we're right, and still be wrong. When we know this, we will no longer trust our most conscientious judgement but only the Spirit and then will given deeper mysteries which only the Spirit gives.

In this matter that we are discussing, I do not believe that you are right at all. I am totally convinced that I interpreted 1 John 5:16 correctly. I have attempted to explain to you why I am convinced that my interpretation is correct, but obviously you do not accept my arguments. That is fine by me. You are not obliged to agree with me, especially if doing so violates your conscience. However, the Truth is a very precious thing. It is the food, the sustenance of the children of God bought by very Precious Blood. Whenever anyone teaches it erroneously, it poisons the food. That means that the children are poisoned when they receive it. God does not take such a thing lightly. There are no stronger warnings in the Bible against anything than false teaching. Two whole letters were written in the New Testament against false teachers, and our Lord Jesus gave very stringent warnings against false teaching in Luke 17.

This matters to me as a pastor-teacher, and I'll freely tell you that at a point in my life, I really did not want this gift. It is a great gift to be given to anyone, the greatest gift given today in the Church now that Apostles and Prophets have been removed from the Church. But it is the most dangerous gift to have.

Whoever taught you this. I'll just skip this.

As I said, the sin unto death is actually a very well documented divine discipline in the Bible. It happens on a corporate and also on an individual scale, with the Lord first warning the recipients with mild punishments regarding their bad witness and then steadily escalating His warnings and judgments until He kills or destroys them from the earth. That is what He did to the nations Israel and Judah, what He did to whole houses descended from one patriarch or another (the house of Eli, for example), what He did to King Saul, what He did to the man in 1 Corinthians 5, what He did to Ananias and Sapphira, and what He did to Hymenaeus and Alexander, and to the Corinthian church because of the Lord's Supper. It's very well documented.
You don't have to take my word for it. You can read the Bible for yourself. You obviously have.

I always affirmed sin unto terminal sickness as part of the discipline of God, you didn't need to go through all this. But just as you cannot attach it to Lk 12:10, Heb 6:4, Heb 10:24, so you cannot attach this to 1Jn 5:16. So avoid this text when you teach on the Lord's discipline.

If the Lord does discipline His children right up to the point of killing them when they continue to sin grievously without confessing, then it is only to be expected that that is what John would mean in that verse.

This is illogical. The fact that there is Gods judgement of terminal sickness doesn't automatically mean that john was speaking of that. There are other truths taught as well in scripture. As a matter of fact, John had spoken of the sin of apostasy previously in 1Jn 2:19 and told them here in 1Jn 5:16 not to pray for one who has already committed this sin because they are irredeemable as explained in earlier posts.

If the Scriptures are clear that one does not "sin unto the loss of eternal life," then that is not what John can be expected to mean in that verse.

No. This is your misconception. Whatever is not of faith is sin and all unrighteousness is sin. Apostasy/Blasphemy against the Spirit is called the unforgivable SIN in (Mk 3:28-29), the willful SIN in (Heb 10:26, 29) and SIN unto death in 1Jn 5:16. In other words it is many times called SIN(not just unbelief, though that wouldn't change anything) and is the ONLY sin that can causes loss of eternal life or transfers the doer from the realm of life to the realm of death hence sin unto death.

Finallydead:





This has been our issue all along and is why I will cease to reply your post on this matter. You may sugarcoat this but fact is you are not willing to learn from anyone here except your mentor you spoke of. I know I only know very little and am very willing to learn from even a little child if he knows something I don't and I have learnt things from people I have ministered to. God doesn't give you ministry because your knowledge is impeccable but so you may grow in the knowledge of Him as you also teach. You have a lot to learn in this journey brother, we all do. This character of yours is a weightier issue than just correct/wrong doctrine which God is more concerned about. We all have spots and are therefore expected to first acknowledge them and then pray until we receive grace to conform to His spotless image. Do this and you will be greater in His kingdom than just one having knowledge (1Cor 8:1-3)


If you have not been corrected by others even if its those who know less and you only self-correct, you are not worthy to correct others.



You may have served this medicine to others and also from time to time need it from others, that's why we are a body



when you really love truth, you will HATE your ego if it ever comes between you and truth.



We can look from all angles, think we're right, and still be wrong. When we know this, we will no longer trust our most conscientious judgement but only the Spirit and then will given deeper mysteries which only the Spirit gives.

In this matter that we are discussing, I do not believe that you are right at all. I am totally convinced that I interpreted 1 John 5:16 correctly. I have attempted to explain to you why I am convinced that my interpretation is correct, but obviously you do not accept my arguments. That is fine by me. You are not obliged to agree with me, especially if doing so violates your conscience. However, the Truth is a very precious thing. It is the food, the sustenance of the children of God bought by very Precious Blood. Whenever anyone teaches it erroneously, it poisons the food. That means that the children are poisoned when they receive it. God does not take such a thing lightly. There are no stronger warnings in the Bible against anything than false teaching. Two whole letters were written in the New Testament against false teachers, and our Lord Jesus gave very stringent warnings against false teaching in Luke 17.


Whoever taught you this. I'll just skip this.




I always affirmed sin unto terminal sickness as part of the discipline of God, you didn't need to go through all this. But just as you cannot attach it to Lk 12:10, Heb 6:4, Heb 10:24, so you cannot attach this to 1Jn 5:16. So avoid this text when you teach on the Lord's discipline.



This is illogical. The fact that there is Gods judgement of terminal sickness doesn't automatically mean that john was speaking of that. There are other truths taught as well in scripture. As a matter of fact, John had spoken of the sin of apostasy previously in 1Jn 2:19 and told them here in 1Jn 5:16 not to pray for one who has already committed this sin because they are irredeemable as explained in earlier posts.



No. This is your misconception. Whatever is not of faith is sin and all unrighteousness is sin. Apostasy/Blasphemy against the Spirit is called the unforgivable SIN in (Mk 3:28-29), the willful SIN in (Heb 10:26, 29) and SIN unto death in 1Jn 5:16. In other words it is many times called SIN(not just unbelief, though that wouldn't change anything) and is the ONLY sin that can causes loss of eternal life or transfers the doer from the realm of life to the realm of death hence sin unto death.

1. It is as I thought then: you came to make yourself my teacher.

As I said, I do offer correction to other brothers and sisters here, but I have never pretended to have teaching authority over them as you seem to think that you have a right to do with me here. Every time that I see an error in public space, I know that it is more than just the person who put it there that is at risk, so, depending on the person, the nature of the error, and the place where I see the error, I may offer correction for it. If the person accepts my help, then I will continue to offer such help in the future. If they reject it, I generally move on, after leaving a witness to the Truth for others who may happen by. I don't pretend to be anybody's teacher unless they are willing to give themselves to learning the whole system of biblical truth from me.

As I said, this is not what you have tried to do with me. You are essentially assuming teaching authority over me. As I have told you, I don't need a new pastor-teacher. I have one already, a precious gift from the Lord that I value tremendously. I am not like those in 2 Timothy 4:3-4 who go around heaping up teachers to tell them what they want to hear. I have one person whom I have tested by the Scriptures and found worthy to listen to (1 Corinthians 4:15). That is enough for me. I don't need another. And if I did for some reason, I have not found you trustworthy regarding the Truth. There are too many errors in your old posts and in what you are saying right now for me to trust you to be able to teach me the Truth.

2. You say very plenty here that I see no Scriptural backing for.

(i) "God doesn't give you ministry because your knowledge is impeccable but so you may grow in the knowledge of Him as you also teach."
Where does the Bible say this?

(ii) "We all have spots and are therefore expected to first acknowledge them and then pray until we receive grace to conform to His spotless image. Do this and you will be greater in His kingdom than just one having [i]knowledge (1Cor 8:1-3)"[/i]

1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. 2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. 3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
1 Corinthians 8:1-3 (KJV)

That's 1 Corinthians 8:1-3. It actually corresponds to Romans 14. If it was a warning against seeking to know the Truth and be sure of what we know, then Paul would not have written this too:

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ...
Ephesians 4:11-13 (KJV)

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Ephesians 1:17 (KJV)

See also John 16:13; 1 Corinthians 2; and Hebrews 5:12-6:12.

That is to say that epignosis, that is, knowledge of the Truth that is believed in the heart is what we are supposed to be occupying ourselves with here on Earth. That is our spiritual duty: to learn the Truth, to believe it, and to help others to do the same (John 6:29). As it is, as we learn the Truth, we learn our own weakness and steadily turn to the Lord in confession as our sins are made perspicuous to us, and we steadily change our behavior too through the strength we receive from the Truth, and we grow more truly humble and more truly loving toward others, especially fellow believers.

So, I see nothing at all in the Bible that says that we should not be striving to learn all of biblical truth. Besides, isn't that what you thought you could teach me?

(iii) "If you have not been corrected by others even if its those who know less and you only self-correct, you are not worthy to correct others."
What part of the Bible teaches this?

(iv) "We can look from all angles, think we're right, and still be wrong. When we know this, we will no longer trust our most conscientious judgement but only the Spirit and then will given deeper mysteries which only the Spirit gives."
See Ephesians 4:11-16, especially verse 14. Does it agree with you?

(v) "But just as you cannot attach it to Lk 12:10, Heb 6:4, Heb 10:24, so you cannot attach this to 1Jn 5:16."
How does the Bible prove that I am wrong in "attaching" it to the verse? Have you actually shown how?

3. As I told you, I don't see how you are correct in your interpretation, and I do not owe any obedience to you. So, I will continue to interpret 1 John 5:16 as I have, because I am still convinced that it is the correct way to interpret it. It means nothing to me if you disapprove. I owe neither my Salvation nor my pastor-teaching gift to you. The Lord is my Judge.

4. Regarding "This is illogical. The fact that there is Gods judgement of terminal sickness doesn't automatically mean that john was speaking of that,"

Of course it does. Unless the Bible teaches something else that can be interpreted the same way, it must be the sin unto death that John talks about. And it doesn't.

5. Regarding "As a matter of fact, John had spoken of the sin of apostasy previously in 1Jn 2:19 and told them here in 1Jn 5:16 not to pray for one who has already committed this sin because they are irredeemable as explained in earlier posts,"

I see no reason to believe this. As I told you, apostasy is not the sin unto death, it is only the death of faith. That is, it is not unto death, it is itself death, that is, a reverting to spiritual death.

6. Regarding "No. This is your misconception. Whatever is not of faith is sin and all unrighteousness is sin. Apostasy/Blasphemy against the Spirit is called the unforgivable SIN in (Mk 3:28-29), the willful SIN in (Heb 10:26, 29) and SIN unto death in 1Jn 5:16. In other words it is many times called SIN(not just unbelief, though that wouldn't change anything) and is the ONLY sin that can causes loss of eternal life or transfers the doer from the realm of life to the realm of death hence sin unto death,"

As I said, I don't agree with you. Apostasy is a reverting to unbelief. Unbelief is the death of faith. It is also the unforgivable sin. It is also the state of spiritual death and loss of eternal life. It is not unto death. It is actual spiritual death. The sin unto death, on the other hand, is a discipline trending toward the termination of physical life in the believer who is sinning against the Lord in the way I have explained so many times to you.


I would be happy to leave things at this point. It is always wearying to talk to people like you. I don't know how I have to say to you that I do not accept your authority as a teacher before you get it. I don't demand that you accept mine. I'm fine with the work I have been given to do. It is merely to teach the Truth wherever I am given to. If anyone loves the Truth, of course, they'll hear me. If they don't, they won't. It makes little difference to me what anyone thinks of me as long as I'm doing my job the right way to the Lord Who gave me the job. So, I don't care if you think I am in error and that I'm wrong to not accept your "correction." As I said, I don't need it. If I still need that at this stage, I've really wasted the grand gift the Lord gave me in the pastor-teacher that He graciously led me to.

I hope that you will not bother me again. Reject everything I've said, if you please, but do leave me be. I did not come to this thread in search of a teacher.

ichuka:

You guys are missing it
If you are truly save and the Spirit of God is in charge of your life then where comes the sins?

so you are telling me you don't commit since again?

You better stop lying to yourself

francesawesome:
I read a story narrated by Kenneth Hagin, Jesus was teaching him about demon possession. He saw a vision of a lady who happens to be pastors wife. He knows them very well. The lady left her husband. God was trying to tell Kenneth Hagin about what happened to the woman. The woman was born again, spirit filled. Satan tempted him by saying "oh lady, if not that you're born again, you would have gain power and firm with your beautiful look and voice" she knew it was Satan and rebuke him, later the same talk came and she pondered over it then her husband was no longer appealing to her again. She divorced him, dated another, left the man, to another man. Jesus said if she had repented, she would have forgiven her and restore her. But something happened. During those times she backslided church member always come around to try and win her back. Until one day, a church member met her in a hotel room and tried winning her over, she said "as long as Christ is concern to hell with all of you". Kenneth hagain said immediately, her spirit was full of darkness. Jesus told Kenneth, she has made her choice, she ha rejected me. It is impossible to save her now because she has embrace darkness. This story plus others. It is very possible for one to loose his/her salvation. Read the triumphant church by Kenneth Hagin

Hi sis
God cannot contradict Himself.
He said once we believe Eternal Life is ours.
The Life He gives is Eternal.

LadyExcellency:


I have Satanic bible and all your comments seem to be lifted from there.

Are you a member of Church of Satan?

Are you a Christain ?

solite3:
The answer to that question biblically is a resounding, clear, emphatic, joyful, glorious “No.” A born-again person cannot become dead, cannot be unborn again. I will give some biblical thinking here, trying to be as textual as possible, and not just theological.

No Dropouts

The life that is imparted in the new birth is precisely eternal life. “This is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life [has given us eternal life], and this life is in his Son” (1 John 5:11). So he didn’t give us temporary life. He gave us eternal life. We are already participating in the life of the age to come.

“If you are called, you cannot lose your salvation.”

Here is another crucial word: “Those whom he predestined.” This is from Romans 8:30: “Those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.” Now, glorification is the final state of permanent salvation. This verse says that all the called — with nobody dropping out — are justified, and all the justified — with nobody dropping out — are glorified.

So the answer is this: If you are called, you cannot lose your salvation. And I am going to argue that being called and being born again are identical biblical categories. We will be justified, and we will be glorified, because we have been called — that is, we have been born again.

Beckoned to Life

The kind of call Paul is talking about in Romans 8:30 is the call of Lazarus, by Jesus, from the grave: “Lazarus, I know you are dead. Now come out” (see John 11:43). The call creates the life, and that is what happened to everybody who is a Christian: God’s sovereign call created the life. That means that there is a promise attached to the call.

Here are a few texts that show this connection. First Thessalonians 5:23–24 says, “May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely . . . at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful; he will surely do it.” So the logic here is: If you have been called, God is faithful. You will be kept for the last day.

Or here it is again in 1 Corinthians 1:8–9: Christ “will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son.” So now you can go back and see why (in Romans 8:30) all the called are justified, and all the justified are glorified — because God is faithful. There is nothing automatic.

Preservation of the Predestined

A lot of people think eternal security is like a vaccination. They think, “When I was 6 years old, I prayed, and God vaccinated my arm. Therefore, I can’t get the disease of damnation.” That is not the way it is. Rather, it is more like entering lifetime therapy with a doctor who says, “You are my patient. You will do what I say, and I will get you to the end, whole in the last day.”

Here is Jeremiah 32:40, which has to be one of my all-time favorite verses on perseverance: “I will make with them an everlasting covenant, that I will not turn away from doing good to them. And I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me.” So the new covenant that Jesus bought with his blood is a covenant of preservation. It is not just security in some mechanical way. It is preservation in an active way. God is active in my life.


“Perseverance in faith is the evidence that we have been made part of Christ.”



When I ask people, “How do you know you are going to be a Christian when you wake up in the morning?” a lot of people are kind of shocked by the question. They respond, “Oh, because, you know, it is like being human.” No, it is not like being human. You will wake up a Christian tomorrow morning because God is faithful. God will wake you up and awaken in you his faith.

Faithfully He Keeps

Here are a couple more verses that highlight God’s faithfulness: “I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion” (Philippians 1:6). The reason Paul talks like that is because of the way God’s faithfulness connects to his call, his new birth.

Or Jude 24: “Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling . . .” I preached on this verse a while back, because I was, at age 67, just finishing up my pastoral ministry. I am overwhelmed by the fact that God kept me.

He kept me. He didn’t let me fall down and bring reproach upon his name and destroy the church. I don’t look back on that and put my thumb in my armpits and say, “What a good boy am I.” I say, “Amazing! Amazing! Now unto him who kept me and will keep me . . .”

Anchor of Our Assurance

This leaves, I think, only one key question that people always have and should have: “Well, what about people who are in the church? They have been deacons or elders, and they look like they were saved in college. Here they are five years later, and they have thrown it all away. Some of them die in that condition. What about them?”

I think there are two key verses that people should think about long and hard. First John 2:19: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.” The words of us in that verse surely mean “born again with us, grafted into Christ with us” — and they weren’t. They looked like they were. They said some of the right things. They had “tasted . . . the powers of the age to come” (Hebrews 6:5). But they were not born of God.

“You will wake up a Christian tomorrow morning because God is faithful.”

Additionally, Hebrews 6 is a big stumbling block for people about the kinds of spiritual experiences a person can have and still be lost. But Hebrews 3:14, I think, is an absolute key verse in that book: “We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.”

The author doesn’t say, “If you hold your confidence firm to the end, you will get a share in Christ.” He says, “We know that we have had — from the beginning of our lives with Christ — a share in Christ, because we endure to the end.” This means perseverance in faith is the evidence that we have been made part of Christ.

And when that perseverance doesn’t hold, then we were never in the assurance. Here is the key: The assurance, therefore, is not automatic. It is assurance rooted in our confidence in an absolutely sovereign, covenant-keeping God, who gave his Son on behalf of sinners so that, as we look to him, the Holy Spirit testifies to us that we are the children of God (Romans 8:16).

www.desiringGod .org.com

christianashit ,Christianity the only religion on Earth that has a God Jesus Christ who came with penix and anus at the same time,u need to be busy asking ur pastor and parent why would they lead u to rot because it's a huge comic to worship a guy that had anus as a creator God but here u are calling Islam bad while u don't even know the said God u serve don't even know u worship him because he never commanded ur pathetic ass to bow on to him. Christianity was a cult never a religion because no religion without God and the God that goes to toilet was never a God.
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Praivit0:



A lady was a fervent member of her church choir, she got into the university and decided to get a boyfriend.

One day she went to visit her man and she lost her virginity through fornication.


On her way back home, she had a fatal accident and died and ended up in hell.


If you die with an unconfessed sin, you will end up in hell. This story I told isn't fiction. It's a revelation from God.


Let him that has ears hear what the S

What's the purpose of Jesus' death if we still have to pay for the sins He paid for. It is not a license to sin but a call to live a righteous life like Him. Nevertheless, you can't keep the entire laws in the bible. If you break one, you break all. Daily we break laws. You only need to embrace grace. Anyone can die in his/her sleep without confessing sins, no justification for going to hell.
However, no one is in heaven or hell yet

@solite3
@ichuka

I'm addressing you two because I have higher hopes of you than I do of many I've met here, and I hope that you will not take that as an insult.

I think that I can understand the desire to believe that one can never lose one's Salvation, although the reason that you may have for having that desire may be different than I once did. I got saved when I was a child, and I don't even remember when or how it happened. I only remember growing up with that confidence that Jesus Christ died for my sins, but like most people, I was brought up in a home and a church with little interest in learning the whole realm of biblical truth, so I stayed at that basic level of faith for a long time. That meant that I did not advance in santification at all. I struggled with very difficult sinful habits. For example, I had a foul temper. It wasn't the only thing. It was only one of them.

I struggled to behave the way that I thought that a Christian should. I tried so many formulas that it is extremely rare now that I should read any "Christian" literature without being familiar with the ideas in it. Nothing was more important to me than pleasing the Lord and being able to "make heaven." Many of the teachings I was exposed to growing up, especially in the Methodist Church that my family went to, were of the Arminian persuasion, that is, they taught that you could lose your salvation through sin. So, sometimes I gave my life to Christ several times a week. Every time I knew that I had sinned, I had to "rededicate" my life to the Lord. "Backsliding and rededication" was the theme of my growing up years, and it was that way until I turned 17.

At that point, I decided that I wasn't a Christian if I couldn't stop sinning so badly. I figured that I probably couldn't be saved, and I even feared that I was the Antichrist because of my very strong grasp of the Scriptures. I had this charisma that people around me responded to, although I was quite shy and retiring. When I spoke, especially in Christian gatherings, people listened. But I struggled with things in my heart that made me ashamed. And my behavior was obviously not perfect to me.

It took until a few days before I turned 21, when I had an emotional experience before I believed that I was saved again. One key thing about that experience was that I was persuaded that my behavior had nothing to do with my salvation. It was all the Lord and my job was to trust Him to keep me saved. It was liberating, and after that day I rarely doubted my salvation anymore. But that didn't mean that I had come to understand what the Bible teaches about Salvation, so I was still quite confused about how I was struggling with sin, and my struggles actually got worse after that time.

My point is that I spent a long time looking for something that I called "assurance of Salvation." It occupied my childhood, especially my teenage years. I read everything from Kenneth Hagin to W. F. Kumuyi. I even tried to exorcise myself using Rebecca Brown's teachings. Suffice to say that there is nothing that I have seen since then that I hadn't already seen. I knew about "Once Saved Always Saved," but it has never been a comfortable thing for me to believe, although I taught it sometime between 2012 and 2014 on this platform. The reason was probably because of how I saw people who believed it behave back in secondary school. They were fellow members of the school's Christian fellowship, but their behavior was horrible, and they seemed okay with being that way, while I was struggling with being obedient to the Lord.

I have come to see that the Bible teaches both that our Salvation is secure and that we can lose it. It is one of those seeming paradoxes in the Bible that are really not paradoxical. Let me explain again:

1. As long as we choose to believe in the Lord Jesus, our Salvation is secure (John 3:16-18).

2. Sin is not the issue (Ephesians 2:8 ).

3. If we choose to stop believing, we are no longer saved (John 3:18).

4. Sin can lead us to choose to stop believing (Hebrews 3:13; 12:15-17).

That is, our Salvation is protected by the Lord Himself. Unless we choose to throw it back in His Face, we cannot lose it, no matter what. If we die in sin, we are still saved as long as we believe in the Lord Jesus. Examples are King Saul and Samson. These two were sinning like it was their birthright to do so, and yet King Saul was told that he would be in Paradise with his sons after he died the next day and the Lord granted Samson's plea for vengeance just before he died. They were terrible believers. They are very bad examples to follow. They died without confessing their sin, never mind their regret for all their foolishness. But they are saved. It is not about sin. The Lord Jesus paid for all of our sin. It is only when we reject Him that we lose our Salvation.

However, sin is the opposite of Faith. It is hard to sin without getting a reaction from our Faith. When we sin, our Faith reacts to it with a sense of guilt and a need to confess to the Lord, because our communion with the Lord, our Fellowship with the Trinity (which is only possible because of our Faith in Them) is broken (1 John 1:3-7). We may do so, but still return to our sin. The more we do that, the less happy we will be with confessing. Eventually, we start avoiding the Lord, because we don't want to keep confessing a sin we don't want to let go of. The result is a growing distance between us and the Lord. If this continues indefinitely, we will give up our Faith in the Lord, because we prefer to disobey Him rather than trust Him for whatever "benefit" we think that we derive from sinning against Him. For this reason, and also because our sin says something false about Him to people who witness it, the Lord disciplines us (Hebrews 12:4-13).

If we insist on continuing to sin, we will only get more discipline from Him. The more stubborn we are, the worse the punishment. Eventually, some of us do decide that it's His Fault that we sin. As a result of such thinking, we deliberately terminate our Faith or Trust in Him (Hebrews 12:16). Once we do that, we have given up our Salvation. This is not the only reason that anyone can give up their Salvation, but it is a real reason and a major one too. It is important to remember that only those who believe are saved; those who don't are not (John 3:16,18). We don't lose our ability to choose to believe or not believe after the first time we make that choice (Matthew 24:13). We can choose later to stop believing, if we want (Matthew 13:20-21; 24:12-13). This is what the Bible actually teaches. It is not only possible to terminate our Faith in the Lord, but others have done it throughout history. Being fond of a given sin is one big reason why many do, but it isn't the only reason. My point here is that while merely sinning does not result in loss of Salvation or Eternal Life, we can love sin so much that we decide to stop believing in the Lord so that we can enjoy sinning against Him without the interference of our conscience and His Discipline. Whenever we make the choice to stop believing, we sear our conscience (cf. 1 Timothy 4:2) and remove ourselves from the Family of God, so that we are no longer worthy of His Discipline and will no longer receive it, as a result (Hebrews 12:6).

This, however, is not the only outcome for sinning so insistently. If we insist on holding on to our Faith even while we sin, we will not lose our Salvation. As I told you, you can only lose it by choosing to stop believing in Jesus Christ. That is a choice you can only make consciously. No one makes it by mistake. One can be seduced into making it, but no one makes it without knowing what they are doing. So, it is very possible to continue sinning like an unbeliever while holding on to Faith in Jesus Christ. If we do so, after several punishments meted out to warn us of the Lord's strong disapproval of our behavior, the Lord commences the discipline of the sin unto death (1 John 5:16; 1 Corinthians 5:5). This discipline is the Lord's Way of preserving the Salvation of the foolish believer who chooses this path. It costs him all of his eternal reward (1 Corinthians 3:15), but he himself is saved from the Lake of Fire. If this does not show how secure our Salvation is, I have no idea what does.

The reason that it is a very bad idea to teach "Once Saved Always Saved" is that the Bible does not teach it at all. That is, it is a lie. The Bible is clear that one can give up one's Faith in Jesus Christ. The reason could be because of one's love for a pet sin (as in the example of Samson, although he didn't give up his faith in his case) or it could be because one does not want to suffer for the Lord Jesus in this world (as in the example of Demas, 2 Timothy 4:10) or even because one is arrogantly teaching error to the children of God (2 Peter 2, especially verses 20-22). This does not mean that our Salvation is not secure. It is perfectly secure, because we cannot "lose" it, we can only throw it away. That is, no one can steal us from the Lord or force us out of His Protection. Only we ourselves can leave His Protection, if we want to.

When we believe OSAS, the result, just as with other lies, is that we will begin to act in keeping with the lie. We will put ourselves at risk in ways that we ought not to. For example, we could begin to tolerate sin in a way that may soon bring upon us the choice between apostasy and the discipline of the sin unto death, neither of which is a good thing for a believer. We can pretend that that won't happen, but it does. But the greater damage that this lie does is that it tells us not to obey the Bible and work to build up our Faith so that we can become invulnerable to the seductions of lies and sin and threats to our Faith (Jude 1:20; Ephesians 4:11-16). If we are not growing spiritually, we remain at constant risk of losing our Faith, and we also most certainly accomplish very little indeed of any value at all to the Lord. But if we understand and appreciate that we are on a battlefield (2 Corinthians 6:7; 10:3-5; Ephesians 6:10-18), fighting for great eternal rewards and the Lord's Pleasure in us, then taking pains to build up our Faith and grow more sensitive to the Lord and to His Will will drive us toward spiritual success and away from the possibility of giving up our Faith.

You could still choose not to believe me, although I have shown you these things in the Bible itself. Your objections until now have not been shown to have any Scriptural basis: they have essentially been logical objections, that is, questions of logic rather than Scripture. That worries me about believers who either claim to love the Truth or demonstrate some love for it. If the Bible says something, then you believe it. It does not matter if it doesn't seem logical to you. Only when you believe it will you see how it makes sense, otherwise you are merely defining logic for yourself. For example, ichuka, when you insist that because the Life we are given is Eternal, it should be invulnerable to loss, you completely ignore that we are not given this Life in our own selves, we have it in the Lord Jesus. So while your objection seems logical because Eternal Life should be something that cannot be extinguished, it dispenses with the Truth that we do not possess it in ourselves. If then we give up the Lord Jesus and cease to be loyal to Him, we lose that eternal life as well. In other words, your logic was not complete because it did not account for everything the Bible has to say.

On the other hand, solite3, when you insist that it is our eternal rewards that are at risk (something I have taught on this platform too), you ignore completely that the Bible says very unequivocally that there are people who receive the Truth with joy but lack roots in themselves so that when suffering and persecution comes, they throw their Faith away. So, it is not just eternal rewards that are at stake, it is also Eternal Life.

I wish that you would choose to follow the Truth wherever it goes instead of dictating to it where it must go or banding with those who have no respect for it only because they agree with you, but that is a choice that you can only make for yourselves. I cannot make it for you. Wherever the Truth leads, it is always the right choice to follow. There is no insecurity in our Salvation. If you follow the Truth, you will learn that. But we are in a war, nonetheless, and we must fight to protect the things we value and reach for the things we desire. If you follow the Truth, you will learn that as well.

ichuka:

Hi sis
God cannot contradict Himself.
He said once we believe Eternal Life is ours.
The Life He gives is Eternal.

True but when a beliver has eternal life and later backslide, God can't force himself on them again. Didn't the bible say work out your salvation with fear and trembling Philippians 2:12. Lastly
Hebrew 6:4-6 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Study the word yourself and don't embrace every doctrine you hear in other not to be mislead.
Ignorance they say is not an excuse

Ihedinobi3:
@solite3
@ichuka

I'm addressing you two because I have higher hopes of you than I do of many I've met here, and I hope that you will not take that as an insult.

I think that I can understand the desire to believe that one can never lose one's Salvation, although the reason that you may have for having that desire may be different than I once did. I got saved when I was a child, and I don't even remember when or how it happened. I only remember growing up with that confidence that Jesus Christ died for my sins, but like most people, I was brought up in a home and a church with little interest in learning the whole realm of biblical truth, so I stayed at that basic level of faith for a long time. That meant that I did not advance in santification at all. I struggled with very difficult sinful habits. For example, I had a foul temper. It wasn't the only thing. It was only one of them.

I struggled to behave the way that I thought that a Christian should. I tried so many formulas that it is extremely rare now that I should read any "Christian" literature without being familiar with the ideas in it. Nothing was more important to me than pleasing the Lord and being able to "make heaven." Many of the teachings I was exposed to growing up, especially in the Methodist Church that my family went to, were of the Arminian persuasion, that is, they taught that you could lose your salvation through sin. So, sometimes I gave my life to Christ several times a week. Every time I knew that I had sinned, I had to "rededicate" my life to the Lord. "Backsliding and rededication" was the theme of my growing up years, and it was that way until I turned 17.

At that point, I decided that I wasn't a Christian if I couldn't stop sinning so badly. I figured that I probably couldn't be saved, and I even feared that I was the Antichrist because of my very strong grasp of the Scriptures. I had this charisma that people around me responded to, although I was quite shy and retiring. When I spoke, especially in Christian gatherings, people listened. But I struggled with things in my heart that made me ashamed. And my behavior was obviously not perfect to me.

It took until a few days before I turned 21, when I had an emotional experience before I believed that I was saved again. One key thing about that experience was that I was persuaded that my behavior had nothing to do with my salvation. It was all the Lord and my job was to trust Him to keep me saved. It was liberating, and after that day I rarely doubted my salvation anymore. But that didn't mean that I had come to understand what the Bible teaches about Salvation, so I was still quite confused about how I was struggling with sin, and my struggles actually got worse after that time.

My point is that I spent a long time looking for something that I called "assurance of Salvation." It occupied my childhood, especially my teenage years. I read everything from Kenneth Hagin to W. F. Kumuyi. I even tried to exorcise myself using Rebecca Brown's teachings. Suffice to say that there is nothing that I have seen since then that I hadn't already seen. I knew about "Once Saved Always Saved," but it has never been a comfortable thing for me to believe, although I taught it sometime between 2012 and 2014 on this platform. The reason was probably because of how I saw people who believed it behave back in secondary school. They were fellow members of the school's Christian fellowship, but their behavior was horrible, and they seemed okay with being that way, while I was struggling with being obedient to the Lord.

I have come to see that the Bible teaches both that our Salvation is secure and that we can lose it. It is one of those seeming paradoxes in the Bible that are really not paradoxical. Let me explain again:

1. As long as we choose to believe in the Lord Jesus, our Salvation is secure (John 3:16-18).

2. Sin is not the issue (Ephesians 2:8 ).

3. If we choose to stop believing, we are no longer saved (John 3:18).

4. Sin can lead us to choose to stop believing (Hebrews 3:13; 12:15-17).

That is, our Salvation is protected by the Lord Himself. Unless we choose to throw it back in His Face, we cannot lose it, no matter what. If we die in sin, we are still saved as long as we believe in the Lord Jesus. Examples are King Saul and Samson. These two were sinning like it was their birthright to do so, and yet King Saul was told that he would be in Paradise with his sons after he died the next day and the Lord granted Samson's plea for vengeance just before he died. They were terrible believers. They are very bad examples to follow. They died without confessing their sin, never mind their regret for all their foolishness. But they are saved. It is not about sin. The Lord Jesus paid for all of our sin. It is only when we reject Him that we lose our Salvation.

However, sin is the opposite of Faith. It is hard to sin without getting a reaction from our Faith. When we sin, our Faith reacts to it with a sense of guilt and a need to confess to the Lord, because our communion with the Lord, our Fellowship with the Trinity (which is only possible because of our Faith in Them) is broken (1 John 1:3-7). We may do so, but still return to our sin. The more we do that, the less happy we will be with confessing. Eventually, we start avoiding the Lord, because we don't want to keep confessing a sin we don't want to let go of. The result is a growing distance between us and the Lord. If this continues indefinitely, we will give up our Faith in the Lord, because we prefer to disobey Him rather than trust Him for whatever "benefit" we think that we derive from sinning against Him. For this reason, and also because our sin says something false about Him to people who witness it, the Lord disciplines us (Hebrews 12:4-13).

If we insist on continuing to sin, we will only get more discipline from Him. The more stubborn we are, the worse the punishment. Eventually, some of us do decide that it's His Fault that we sin. As a result of such thinking, we deliberately terminate our Faith or Trust in Him (Hebrews 12:16). Once we do that, we have given up our Salvation. This is not the only reason that anyone can give up their Salvation, but it is a real reason and a major one too. It is important to remember that only those who believe are saved; those who don't are not (John 3:16,18). We don't lose our ability to choose to believe or not believe after the first time we make that choice (Matthew 24:13). We can choose later to stop believing, if we want (Matthew 13:20-21; 24:12-13). This is what the Bible actually teaches. It is not only possible to terminate our Faith in the Lord, but others have done it throughout history. Being fond of a given sin is one big reason why many do, but it isn't the only reason. My point here is that while merely sinning does not result in loss of Salvation or Eternal Life, we can love sin so much that we decide to stop believing in the Lord so that we can enjoy sinning against Him without the interference of our conscience and His Discipline. Whenever we make the choice to stop believing, we sear our conscience (cf. 1 Timothy 4:2) and remove ourselves from the Family of God, so that we are no longer worthy of His Discipline and will no longer receive it, as a result (Hebrews 12:6).

This, however, is not the only outcome for sinning so insistently. If we insist on holding on to our Faith even while we sin, we will not lose our Salvation. As I told you, you can only lose it by choosing to stop believing in Jesus Christ. That is a choice you can only make consciously. No one makes it by mistake. One can be seduced into making it, but no one makes it without knowing what they are doing. So, it is very possible to continue sinning like an unbeliever while holding on to Faith in Jesus Christ. If we do so, after several punishments meted out to warn us of the Lord's strong disapproval of our behavior, the Lord commences the discipline of the sin unto death (1 John 5:16; 1 Corinthians 5:5). This discipline is the Lord's Way of preserving the Salvation of the foolish believer who chooses this path. It costs him all of his eternal reward (1 Corinthians 3:15), but he himself is saved from the Lake of Fire. If this does not show how secure our Salvation is, I have no idea what does.

The reason that it is a very bad idea to teach "Once Saved Always Saved" is that the Bible does not teach it at all. That is, it is a lie. The Bible is clear that one can give up one's Faith in Jesus Christ. The reason could be because of one's love for a pet sin (as in the example of Samson, although he didn't give up his faith in his case) or it could be because one does not want to suffer for the Lord Jesus in this world (as in the example of Demas, 2 Timothy 4:10) or even because one is arrogantly teaching error to the children of God (2 Peter 2, especially verses 20-22). This does not mean that our Salvation is not secure. It is perfectly secure, because we cannot "lose" it, we can only throw it away. That is, no one can steal us from the Lord or force us out of His Protection. Only we ourselves can leave His Protection, if we want to.

When we believe OSAS, the result, just as with other lies, is that we will begin to act in keeping with the lie. We will put ourselves at risk in ways that we ought not to. For example, we could begin to tolerate sin in a way that may soon bring upon us the choice between apostasy and the discipline of the sin unto death, neither of which is a good thing for a believer. We can pretend that that won't happen, but it does. But the greater damage that this lie does is that it tells us not to obey the Bible and work to build up our Faith so that we can become invulnerable to the seductions of lies and sin and threats to our Faith (Jude 1:20; Ephesians 4:11-16). If we are not growing spiritually, we remain at constant risk of losing our Faith, and we also most certainly accomplish very little indeed of any value at all to the Lord. But if we understand and appreciate that we are on a battlefield (2 Corinthians 6:7; 10:3-5; Ephesians 6:10-18), fighting for great eternal rewards and the Lord's Pleasure in us, then taking pains to build up our Faith and grow more sensitive to the Lord and to His Will will drive us toward spiritual success and away from the possibility of giving up our Faith.

You could still choose not to believe me, although I have shown you these things in the Bible itself. Your objections until now have not been shown to have any Scriptural basis: they have essentially been logical objections, that is, questions of logic rather than Scripture. That worries me about believers who either claim to love the Truth or demonstrate some love for it. If the Bible says something, then you believe it. It does not matter if it doesn't seem logical to you. Only when you believe it will you see how it makes sense, otherwise you are merely defining logic for yourself. For example, ichuka, when you insist that because the Life we are given is Eternal, it should be invulnerable to loss, you completely ignore that we are not given this Life in our own selves, we have it in the Lord Jesus. So while your objection seems logical because Eternal Life should be something that cannot be extinguished, it dispenses with the Truth that we do not possess it in ourselves. If then we give up the Lord Jesus and cease to be loyal to Him, we lose that eternal life as well. In other words, your logic was not complete because it did not account for everything the Bible has to say.

On the other hand, solite3, when you insist that it is our eternal rewards that are at risk (something I have taught on this platform too), you ignore completely that the Bible says very unequivocally that there are people who receive the Truth with joy but lack roots in themselves so that when suffering and persecution comes, they throw their Faith away. So, it is not just eternal rewards that are at stake, it is also Eternal Life.

I wish that you would choose to follow the Truth wherever it goes instead of dictating to it where it must go or banding with those who have no respect for it only because they agree with you, but that is a choice that you can only make for yourselves. I cannot make it for you. Wherever the Truth leads, it is always the right choice to follow. There is no insecurity in our Salvation. If you follow the Truth, you will learn that. But we are in a war, nonetheless, and we must fight to protect the things we value and reach for the things we desire. If you follow the Truth, you will learn that as well.

You have said it all bro. Sin can cause a great havoc to our faith. The bible talks about a reprobate mind ,when gets comfortable in sin.
Sin can open doors to demonic attack.

francesawesome:
You have said it all bro. Sin can cause a great havoc to our faith. The bible talks about a reprobate mind ,when gets comfortable in sin.
Sin can open doors to demonic attack.

Hello.

Thank you for your kind words.

I quite agree that sin opposes our Faith. Faith is directed toward God, but sin heads away from Him. What the Bible says about a reprobate mind, however, has to do with unbelief, not merely sin. If we refuse to accept God's Testimony, that in itself is already madness, but to persist in it actually steadily makes the person rejecting it insane. The result is that such a person will begin to behave in a way that is simply impossible to reconcile with sanity, that is, they have been given over to acting in irrational and unapproveable ways.

As Paul went on to describe, an example of such behavior is homosexuality. It is a sign of a reprobate mind that such a thing is even conceivable to anyone, much less excusable, because it makes no sense on any level at all. But that is the result of an adamant refusal to believe what God says.

In short, if we refuse to believe God, what then is Truth? That is why it is insanity. The only thing that we can trust to be true is what God says. If we reject what He says, we essentially reject all truth and reality. In doing so, we open ourselves up to madness. That is what Paul meant in Romans 1. It isn't so much that when we sin we get a reprobate mind. It is that adamant unbelief, that is, a rejection of the Gospel eventually results in our minds being emptied of all reason.

As for demonic attack, I wouldn't quite put it that way. It is true that sometimes the Lord uses demonic attacks to discipline a sinning believer (King Saul's experience, for example, in 1 Samuel 16:14), but even when we do not sin, the Lord can use demonic attacks to test us (witness Job in Job 1:12). So, it is not wise to create such a hard link between sin and demonic attacks. Sometimes, it is an elect angel that is sent for discipline (2 Samuel 24:15-16), not a demon.

What the Scriptures teach then is that when we sin, we will be disciplined by the Lord. We may not know how the discipline will be administered or what form it will take, but it will come. The wise thing, therefore, is to avoid sin. But if we do sin (and we always do, no matter how careful we are: see James 3:2), we ought to confess our sin (1 John 1:9) and trust the Lord to turn discipline into suffering for blessing.

Ihedinobi3:

Hello.

Thank you for your kind words.

I quite agree that sin opposes our Faith. Faith is directed toward God, but sin heads away from Him. What the Bible says about a reprobate mind, however, has to do with unbelief, not merely sin. If we refuse to accept God's Testimony, that in itself is already madness, but to persist in it actually steadily makes the person rejecting it insane. The result is that such a person will begin to behave in a way that is simply impossible to reconcile with sanity, that is, they have been given over to acting in irrational and unapproveable ways.

As Paul went on to describe, an example of such behavior is homosexuality. It is a sign of a reprobate mind that such a thing is even conceivable to anyone, much less excusable, because it makes no sense on any level at all. But that is the result of an adamant refusal to believe what God says.

In short, if we refuse to believe God, what then is Truth? That is why it is insanity. The only thing that we can trust to be true is what God says. If we reject what He says, we essentially reject all truth and reality. In doing so, we open ourselves up to madness. That is what Paul meant in Romans 1. It isn't so much that when we sin we get a reprobate mind. It is that adamant unbelief, that is, a rejection of the Gospel eventually results in our minds being emptied of all reason.

As for demonic attack, I wouldn't quite put it that way. It is true that sometimes the Lord uses demonic attacks to discipline a sinning believer (King Saul's experience, for example, in 1 Samuel 16:14), but even when we do not sin, the Lord can use demonic attacks to test us (witness Job in Job 1:12). So, it is not wise to create such a hard link between sin and demonic attacks. Sometimes, it is an elect angel that is sent for discipline (2 Samuel 24:15-16), not a demon.

What the Scriptures teach then is that when we sin, we will be disciplined by the Lord. We may not know how the discipline will be administered or what form it will take, but it will come. The wise thing, therefore, is to avoid sin. But if we do sin (and we always do, no matter how careful we are: see James 3:2), we ought to confess our sin (1 John 1:9) and trust the Lord to turn discipline into suffering for blessing.

Thanks for this

greencard:
that particular book? (The call) Do u have the e-copy ..I once read it and it changed alot of things in my beliefs


But ..can u defend this your sayings with this scripture? Luke 13 :1-4?

if why we were yet sinners Christ died for us, then what will prevent or stop that same Christ from keeping us to the very end?

francesawesome:

Thanks for this

You're quite welcome.

francesawesome:
You have said it all bro. Sin can cause a great havoc to our faith. The bible talks about a reprobate mind ,when gets comfortable in sin.
Sin can open doors to demonic attack.

Hi big bro,
Want to ask you a simple question.
" Are you saved by yourself or by the Lord Jesus?”
Thanks

francesawesome:
You have said it all bro. Sin can cause a great havoc to our faith. The bible talks about a reprobate mind ,when gets comfortable in sin.
Sin can open doors to demonic attack.

Hi sis,
Pls I want to ask you same ?? I asked big bro.ok,
" Are you saved by yourself or by the Lord Jesus?”
Thanks

ichuka:

Hi sis,
Pls I want to ask you same ?? I asked big bro.ok,
" Are you saved by yourself or by the Lord Jesus?”
Thanks

Bro that's between me and Jesus

paxonel:
First of all, there is nothing like born again, we are all Christians equally irrespective of whether you are bad or good.
Secondly, salvation is a free gift to all Christians irrespective of who they are.
The only condition a Christian can loose his salvation is when he deviate from the faith he had in Christ.
without faith it is impossible to please God.

So, all these fake stories that a Christian went to hell are all lies.

there is something called being bornagain. Not everyone that call Jesus Lord will enter into the kingdom of God.

Finallydead:











OP, if u're gonna misunderstand scripture, its still understandable but what's not understandable is you not being afraid to actually tamper with scripture just to prove your misunderstanding. Or i take it that you lifted this from a source so you're not to bear the blame? Either way the author of this piece really shot himself in the foot with the scriptures chosen. To begin with, he twists Heb 3:14 which says "we become partakers of christ if we hold our initial profession faithful to the end"....and unfortunately you can't change it to say what you wish because v13 clearly says that "we should exhort each other or else any becomes hardened through the delusion of sin" showing the intention was to warn believers to hold on faithfully to the end or else they are in danger of missing what is theirs in Christ, the whole context of the passage was to warn of the danger and not to reassure.

If you took your time to read op, you wouldnt come to this erroneous conclusion.
People who the writer of hebrews were addressing were Jewish, professing Christians who doubted, the superiority of Christ and his all sufficient sacrifice. The sin that will make one harden to the point of Unrepentance is rejecting the counting the blood of Christ as unclean even after receiving the knowledge of the truth.

Secondly, 1Jn 5:12 which you chose goes further to say in v16..."pray only for the brother who sins not unto death but not for he who sins unto death"...the context again shows that if we "have the son, we have life"...v12 but we can go on to "sin unto death"...v16. Your two choices of scripture already refute your claims. But to refute further, the Lord himself foretold events that will unfold before He returns including "...afflictions and persecution against believers.. such that lawlessness will multiply, and the love of many growing cold but ONLY he that endures to the end will be SAVED" Mat 24:9-13 just as the point in Heb 3. Again Paul warns ...let no man deceive you, do not be partakers in sins, because of the wrath of God coming... Eph 5:6-7 so please OP as he said do not deceive us and also "do not let fornication....be named among you for no such has inheritance in the kingdom of God and Christ..." (v3-5). Again Peter warns, 2Pet 2:1...that there will be false teachers... even denying the Lord Jesus that bought them...who will receive the reward of unrighteousness(v13)...who after escaping by the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus are again entangled in sin...(v20)....it would have been better not to have known than having known to turn back...(v21). So OP, prove yourself to be a humble adherent to Lord Jesus and scripture by correcting your thread, we all make mistakes after all. Bless you.

The sin unto death doesnt mean the sinner can not be forgiven, it only mean that the death consequence would not be reversed no matter the prayer.
People accused paul of preaching grace so that sin will continue but that is the opposite of what paul preached.
Any preacher that say people should continue in sin because grace has come is a false preacher.

Ihedinobi3:

I completely agree. That is still about seven years out. Nonetheless, I was not saying that the Tribulation is the only test for our Faith. Everyday of our lives, our faith is tested in some degree, and there are special seasons of testing when we go through a lot of trouble to prove whether our Faith is of the genuine sort or not. This happens and has happened to all believers at all times throughout history.

Failure to appreciate this leads many believers to failing to build up their Faith to be able to handle these tests. As I shared earlier with you, the Scripture says,

The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy.
But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away.
Matthew 13:20-21 NIV1984


You know my policy: I don't dictate to anyone what they must or must not believe. I don't think that the Scriptures teach pretrib rapture or any kind of rapture at all, at least, not in the sense in which the word is commonly used today. One of the passages I shared with you was the following:

[1]Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, [2]that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. [3]Let no one in any way deceive you, for it (i.e., the day of the Lord) will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction...
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 NASB

As it says quite clearly, the Day of the Lord, which is the Day of His Coming and our Gathering together to Him (Matthew 24:30-31), will not come until the Great Apostasy happens and the Antichrist is revealed. The Great Apostasy will happen in the Tribulation. The Antichrist will also be revealed during the Tribulation, at its midpoint, to be exact. I don't really see how it is wise then or how there is any good reason to believe anything different.

That is just to describe to you what I see in the Bible. I am not demanding that you agree with me.


The following are Bible passages that I posted in response to your thread. I did provide commentary on them, but I really didn't need to, since they are themselves very clear. They don't need interpreting to put their message across, since this is part of the Gospel, the basic doctrine of the Truth, that is, it is not an advanced teaching at all:

Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us; if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself.
2 Timothy 2:11-13 NIV1984

[1]Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, [2]that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. [3]Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction...
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 NASB

The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy.
But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away.
Matthew 13:20-21 NIV1984

Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Matthew 24:12-13 NIV1984


I have already answered the question of OSAS in my comments above and previously, so this response is not about to rehash them again. Also, I don't agree with your respondent in his own arguments. The following is what I have to say about your comments above:

1. About people being kept from dying in sin, to begin with, as I said above, we are all tested as to the enduring quality of our faith, so after we are saved, it's not as if we can never again turn away from the Lord if that is what we wish to do. The Scriptures don't teach that at all. In fact, when we sin, the Lord disciplines us to teach us to fear Him. If we do not respond positively to that discipline, but rather continue in our sin, the discipline only increases and persists until eventually, we either throw away our faith (apostasy, that is, reverting to unbelief) or the Lord ends our life here on Earth to cease our bad witness (that is, the sin unto death, see King Saul, for example). That is to say, if anyone is persisting in sin against the Lord as an unbeliever, the Lord will discipline them and continue to increase the discipline until they (i)turn away from their sin; (ii)throw their Faith away in order to give themselves fully to sin, and the Lord stops disciplining them; or (iii)die as a result of the increasing discipline, in order to preserve their Faith and end their bad witness.

2. If anyone suffers the sin unto death, they lose all their eternal rewards, although they themselves are saved in the end. But this is not a pleasant thing to experience. Consider King Saul, for example. He died believing, but the Lord put him through a lot of embarrassing discipline for his disobedience in the matter of Amalek, and instead of learning his lesson, he continued to worsen his own situation with his stubbornness. He tried to kill the person the Lord anointed to replace him, suffering embarrassing failure after embarrassing failure in doing so, losing good men and soldiers to David in the process. In the end, the Lord wouldn't even speak to him anymore. Instead of repentance, he worsened his situation further by going to the Witch of Endor. There, he sealed his own fate and received the Lord's death sentence. He died the day after that. See Ananias and Sapphira, for another example. What they did in Acts 5 resulted in their own deaths, and it was very likely the sort of thing that they had been doing for a while as believers. As for the eternity side of things, of course, if the sinning believer finds themselves saved in spite of their terrible behavior, they would be more than relieved, but the loss of eternal reward is no mean thing. To suffer rebuke at the Judgment Seat of the Lord Jesus in front of the whole Church at the Second Advent is not going to be a pleasant experience at all. So, the sin unto death is not the kind of experience that any believer with any sense at all would be taking comfort in. We are here to demonstrate emphatically how much we love the Lord and trust Him. Maintaining a sinning streak without confession is a very poor way to do that.

3. Nonetheless, the fact that some people would hang on to their Faith even if the Lord kills them through the sin unto death for their terrible witness is no proof at all that those who believe cannot fall away. They most certainly can. If anyone is disciplined by the Lord for sin, they most certainly can choose to blame the Lord for the discipline and throw their Faith away as a result of their anger. That does happen. Demas (2 Timothy 4:10; compare Colossians 4:14; Philemon 1:24) may not have thrown his Faith away because of the Lord's discipline, but he certainly threw it away because of his love for this world. If he could do that, suffering discipline is not guaranteed to make the disciplined believer love the Lord more. Some people would and do throw their Faith away when the Lord disciplines them for their bad behavior.

your problem is that you think everyone that go to church or mention Jesus is bornagain.
To be bornagain is for someone to be reborn spiritually.
For such a one he cannot perish because he has eternal life.

mylander:
Born-Again! Born-Again!! Born-Again!!!

Do we really have 'born-agains'?

What qualifies a person as a born-again?

Are there people that are really, I mean really, free of any sins?

You are free of Stealing, killing, adultery, fornication etc does not make you a true born-again and does not guarantee your salvation.

What about your unnoticed sins - grudges, envy, backbiting and so on. even bad attitude is a sin.

So, no one, I mean NO ONE, is 100% free from all sins, hence no true born-again. Salvation is by His Grace, not by your deeds, may God cleanse us in His own way, lead and guide us rightly on His path to the end.

when you believe on Jesus as your saviour and redeemer the one who died for you and resurrected from the grave. God himself will give you a spiritual birth.


2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

daveP:
Christian can lose his salvation.

Demas did. Paul affirmed that.

Jesus in Matt during the Olivet Discourse also said that, first.


Many of the faith will fall away. Love will wax cold.

So this modern idea of its impossible is all fallacio. Pls read alot about Jesus talk on matters like this. He is the Reason we all have this connect back to God.


Its all about Love. If the love for the world outweigh the love for God and things of God, salvation gets lost.


Else if it cant be lost, why does hell exist? Lemme stop here.

God bless.

who told you demas was saved or lost his salvation?
The bible never said if you love the world then you would lose your salvation rather if any man love the world the love of the father is not in that person in the first place.
1 John 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

solite3:
there is something called being bornagain. Not everyone that call Jesus Lord will enter into the kingdom of God.

hello!
That was before Jesus was crucified.
Not every disciple who followed Jesus and called him lord lord ended up entered the kingdom, that was past tense.
Today we are now in the kingdom of God (present moment).

So understand the time difference.

Infact, that time before Jesus was crucified when people saw him performing miracles was the era of born again, there was no Christianity then.

Imagine Christians waking up to call themselves born again because they saw the term in the bible at the era before Jesus crucifixion and resurrection?
that is contradictory and ridiculous.
You are only belittling yourself because the least person in Christianity is greater than born again. John 11:11

francesawesome:
Bro that's between me and Jesus

Lol sis.
Sis,we should stop preaching the gospel of fear,instead we should focus fully on the Gospel of Grace which is also the Gospel Love.
We should try to know the difference between Eternal Life and the Kingdom of God.
A believer might lose the Kingdom Reign but not his/her salvation.
My is Chuka,why is that?because I was born a Chuka!! (That's like been born again)
Whatsoever I do am still a Chuka(born again)
If I decides to work hard and become the Governor tommorow(that's like reigning in His Kingdom) but I might still lose been the Governor(that's like sins depriving me from reigning in the Kingdom)
But I AM STILL A CHUKA!! I can't lose that identity,why? That's who I am.if Chuka(born again) is a Doctor,Geologist or a tout,he's still Chuka.
Because Chuka was not born of blood ,or the flesh nor the will if a man ,but Of God!!!
It's all of God and not us .

ichuka:

Lol sis.
Sis,we should stop preaching the gospel of fear,instead we should focus fully on the Gospel of Grace which is also the Gospel Love.
We should try to know the difference between Eternal Life and the Kingdom of God.
A believer might lose the Kingdom Reign but not his/her salvation.
My is Chuka,why is that?because I was born a Chuka!! (That's like been born again)
Whatsoever I do am still a Chuka(born again)
If I decides to work hard and become the Governor tommorow(that's like reigning in His Kingdom) but I might still lose been the Governor(that's like sins depriving me from reigning in the Kingdom)
But I AM STILL A CHUKA!! I can't lose that identity,why? That's who I am.if Chuka(born again) is a Doctor,Geologist or a tout,he's still Chuka.
Because Chuka was not born of blood ,or the flesh nor the will if a man ,but Of God!!!
It's all of God and not us .

That's good to know

francesawesome:
That's good to know

Lol sis,
Anyway goodnight

francesawesome:

Hebrews 6:4-6 King James Version (KJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

having spiritual elightenment is not salvation.
People might perform miracles in the name of Jesus it does not translate to being saved

solite3:
having spiritual elightenment is not salvation.
People might perform miracles in the name of Jesus it does not translate to being saved

Brother are you telling me that Hebrew 6:4-6 is not those that were once save? So you mean to tell me that not everyone that receive the baptism of the holy spirit that are truly save? Because this your doctrine is truly out of this world.
Didn't the bible say that the believers will holy spirit and fire. Was Lucifer not created by God? He was described as one of the best angels God has created but when he rebelled against God, God drove him away. Why didn't God say I've forgiven you, because I created you so I owe you?
Let me tell you, as born again as you claim to be,if tomorrow you say I don't want to serve God anymore and you start worshipping Satan, God will never force himself on you. He gave us freewill. What a man sow that he must reap. God cannot bend his rules for any man. Deuteronomy 30:19
International Version
This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.
The bible prophesy about people denying their faith. So does that mean the bible is filled with lies. May God open your eyes

ichuka:

Hi big bro,
Want to ask you a simple question.
" Are you saved by yourself or by the Lord Jesus?”
Thanks

solite3:
your problem is that you think everyone that go to church or mention Jesus is bornagain.
To be bornagain is for someone to be reborn spiritually.
For such a one he cannot perish because he has eternal life.

It seems obvious to me that neither of you cares what the Bible or I have to say about this matter. I have provided Bible passages that I think should at least give you pause, but you ignore them again and again to try to draw me into a discussion of logic. I have also tried to address what I think may be the underlying reason for your reluctance to face the Truth on this matter, but you have also ignored that.

Because I have no interest in getting involved in a quarrel with either of you, I will not continue our conversation. You should both note, however, that I consider OSAS an attack on the fundamental spiritual safety of believers, that is, on the Salvation of those who believe. So I break fellowship with those who teach it.

OSAS attacks the nature of our Salvation, which the Bible teaches is secure only in Jesus Christ, not in ourselves (1 John 5:11). Those who believe it dismiss their safety in Jesus Christ and assume that it is entirely in themselves. That is an extremely dangerous situation for any believer to be in, so I do not take kindly to any effort spent by anyone to put others in it.

So I will cease speaking to you two now, and I will no longer treat you as brethren until I see that you are willing to listen to the Bible in this matter.

For what it is worth, I have only told you this because I am persuaded of better things of you. I have never put my disassociation with others this way. You are free to take it as you will and regard and treat me as you please, but this is the best course of action that I see that I can take for yours and other believers' benefit in my service here as a pastor-teacher.

Ihedinobi3:


It seems obvious to me that neither of you cares what the Bible or I have to say about this matter. I have provided Bible passages that I think should at least give you pause, but you ignore them again and again to try to draw me into a discussion of logic. I have also tried to address what I think may be the underlying reason for your reluctance to face the Truth on this matter, but you have also ignored that.

Because I have no interest in getting involved in a quarrel with either of you, I will not continue our conversation. You should both note, however, that I consider OSAS an attack on the fundamental spiritual safety of believers, that is, on the Salvation of those who believe. So I break fellowship with those who teach it.

OSAS attacks the nature of our Salvation, which the Bible teaches is secure only in Jesus Christ, not in ourselves (1 John 5:11). Those who believe it dismiss their safety in Jesus Christ and assume that it is entirely in themselves. That is an extremely dangerous situation for any believer to be in, so I do not take kindly to any effort spent to by anyone to put others in it.

So I will cease speaking to you two now, and I will no longer treat you as brethren until I see that you are willing to listen to the Bible in this matter.

For what it is worth, I have only told you this because I am persuaded of better things of you. I have never put my disassociation with others this way. You are free to take it as you will and regard and treat me as you please, but this is the best course of action that I see that I can take for yours and other believers' benefit in my service here as a pastor-teacher.

I agree with you that our salvation is secure only when we continue to abide in Christ. Shallom