cap28:

ha ha you make me laugh - why are you shying away from answering my question?

let me try again, what is productive about a CDS, SIV or sub prime mortgage?

also why do you support tax cuts for the rich but do not realise that the $3trillion bail out (american tax payer money) was also a form of welfare given to undeserving greedy rich leeches?

The bailout was intended to save american jobs and they succeeded in that objective. If AIG, CitiGroup, GM, etc were allowed to fail, many more Americans would have been out of work. On the plus side, many of those companies have since returned the funds given to them with a profit for the tax payer. GM launched the biggest IPO in US history 2 weeks ago and it was over-subscribed even at $33 a share. Citigroup and Goldman Sachs have both returned govet funds with interest.

cap28:

why would anyone describe Obama as weak - Obama is a wall street puppet, who is doing exactly what his backers want him to do, the highest donors to his presidential  campaign were some of the biggest investment banks in america, jp morgan chase, goldman sachs, citgroup, and morgan stanley.
These are the same corporations which received millions of dollars of american tax payers money in bailouts therefore why would anyone describe Obama as a weak candidate.  He is merely carrying out his paymasters instructions.

Many people voted Obama in without even knowing who he was and what his policies were, you only have to look at members of his cabinet to understand whose interests he represents.

Obama does not represent the ordinary american but the super rich financiers and major corporations in america, the good thing about him though is that unlike George Bush he uses deception and charm to hoodwink people into beleiving that he stands for change.

I understand unemployment in america is now officially 10% and unofficilally 15% and yet the recession has still not run its full course.

You are being unfair to Obama; some of Obama's biggest critics have been his supporters from Wall street who feel that he has gone overboard in criticising Wall street. Some of those supporters feel betrayed.

Obama is in a very difficult position. He was supported by many in NY and California but he had to tackle a recession caused by some of his supporters. It has even been argued by those supporters that Obama is anti-business.

Katsumoto:

The bailout was intended to save american jobs and they succeeded in that objective. If AIG, CitiGroup, GM, etc were allowed to fail, many more Americans would have been out of work. On the plus side, many of those companies have since returned the funds given to them with a profit for the tax payer. GM launched the biggest IPO in US history 2 weeks ago and it was over-subscribed even at $33 a share. Citigroup and Goldman Sachs have both returned govet funds with interest.

Perhaps you can explain to me why it has since been disclosed that the New York branch of the Federal reserve tried to prevent the contents of the bail out agreement between the govt and AIG from being disclosed to the public.  

If it were that the bail out money given to AIG had been used for legitimate means why the secrecy?  

GM was able to launch the highest IPO in history because wall street investment bankers oversaw the stripping and restructuring of GM so that they could make huge profits from the downsizing process.

Obama set up an auto task force last year which was headed up by his friends on wall street. This resulted in the laying off of  thousands of workers and the closing of assembly plants around the world.  This is still an ongoing process and by the time the restructuring process is completed over 30,000 people will have lost their jobs at GM.  Under the new GM managment workers have been asked to agree to huge wage and benefits cuts.  

Its for this reason that GM was able to make the huge profits it made recently, the IPO you mentioned also was as a direct result of the systematic mass layoffs, wage slashes and benefit cuts imposed on employees.  The only beneficiaries of this massive windfall are wall street bankers who have made millions of dollars in fees and GM executives, so im at a loss as to how this should be seen as something commendable.

All new jobs being created at GM are on salaries that are so low , the new employees won't even be able to afford the cars that they will be manufacturing.

cap28:

Perhaps you can explain to me why it has since been disclosed that the New York branch of the Federal reserve tried to prevent the contents of the bail out agreement between the govt and AIG from being disclosed to the public.  

If it were that the bail out money given to AIG had been used for legitimate means why the secrecy?  

GM was able to launch the highest IPO in history because wall street investment bankers oversaw the stripping and restructuring of GM so that they could make huge profits from the downsizing process.

Obama set up an auto task force last year which was headed up by his friends on wall street. This resulted in the laying off of  thousands of workers and the closing of assembly plants around the world.  This is still an ongoing process and by the time the restructuring process is completed over 30,000 people will have lost their jobs at GM.  Under the new GM managment workers have been asked to agree to huge wage and benefits cuts.  

Its for this reason that GM was able to make the huge profits it made recently, the IPO you mentioned also was as a direct result of the systematic mass layoffs, wage slashes and benefit cuts imposed on employees.  The only beneficiaries of this massive windfall are wall street bankers who have made millions of dollars in fees and GM executives, so im at a loss as to how this should be seen as something commendable.

All new jobs being created at GM are on salaries that are so low , the new employees won't even be able to afford the cars that they will be manufacturing.

Dude,

You need to stop being so negative. You are focusing on who made money from the GM deal and the lower salaries of workers. Would you prefer for GM to have gone down, with approximately 300,000 workers consequently losing their jobs? Instead GM is leaner and meaner today with approximately 210,000 workers. GM, and the remaining detroit giants have had low productivity and tight margins for years because they have been looking after their workers (they are dealing with legacy costs such as health care, pension, etc). That model is no longer sustainable; US car firms could not compete against the Japanese and Korean firms under the former model. They have had to restructure and respond to competition. GM has adopted the same model as Ford but Ford did not receive any government bailout.

At the end of the day, all human beings are not equal and those with the ability to exploit the system will make money. That is the thing bout capitalism. I am not about to go into the merits and demerits of capitalism, socialism, and communism with you because I know you are anti-capitalism and there is no point in having that debate with you. Lets just agree to disagree on that.

Katsumoto,

Listen to what Cap is saying. . . . .underneath all these dealings there is a shadyness that makes government a co-conspirator in the wall street shenanigans.

I was posting a response to you this morning and was banned for content. Here is a retry of the content but in a summarized version. . . . The economy is in trouble from two quarters - public treasury and private capital market. The root causes for their problems is outlined in brief below:

1. Public treasury - root cause for this problem is the "shock and awe" failure in Baghdad.

2. Private market - President Bush froze, seized and penalized underground monetary networks (real property). The sanctions choked off buoyancy to the conventional banking networks and damaged their holding vaults, which is valued in raw assets. Mortgages and fund markets (real property mixed with prospect yields) both subsist on the raw assets and so they went belly up when their source of investments dried up.

I hope this posting is not censored and you can read this summarized version.

Just to add to my earlier point about AIG - its now known that AIG appropriated billions of  dollars of american tax payers money and used this money to redeem credit default swaps (insurance contracts) which it had sold to Goldman Sachs but had failed to redeem due to its imminent bankruptcy.  

These CDS's had been bought by Goldman Sachs in order to  protect them in  the event that the sub prime mortgages that they speculated on defaulted.

When the subprime mortgages defaulted , Goldman Sachs tried to get AIG to redeem these CDS's, AIG was unable to do so and the govt decided to step in and give  AIG an initial sum of $85 billion

The $85 billion was insufficient to pay off all its debts, the govt then gave it an additional $100 billion which was then used to pay off Goldman Sachs and other creditors.  Goldman Sachs then went on to record massive profits based on this assistance that it received.

All of these transactions were done with the collaboration of the federal reserve - timothy geithner was the president of the new york branch of the federal reserve at the time all this happened, he is now US treasury secretary.

The Fed Reserve even tried to block the disclosure of this information from the public.  

Now tell me how any of this has in any way beneffited ordinary american tax payers.

Oh and this is a link of former Fed Reserve president timothy Geithner being grilled by congress on the role he played in the AIG coverup:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VTWtcyayMQ

Katsumoto:

Dude,

You need to stop being so negative. You are focusing on who made money from the GM deal and the lower salaries of workers. Would you prefer for GM to have gone down, with approximately 300,000 workers consequently losing their jobs? Instead GM is leaner and meaner today with approximately 210,000 workers. GM, and the remaining detroit giants have had low productivity and tight margins for years because they have been looking after their workers (they are dealing with legacy costs such as health care, pension, etc). That model is no longer sustainable; US car firms could not compete against the Japanese and Korean firms under the former model. They have had to restructure and respond to competition. GM has adopted the same model as Ford but Ford did not receive any government bailout.

At the end of the day, all human beings are not equal and those with the ability to exploit the system will make money. That is the capitalism. I am not about to go into the merits and demerits of capitalism, socialism, and communism with you because I know you are anti-capitalism and there is no point in having that debate with you. Lets just agree to disagree on that.

Of course im focusing on who made money from the GM bail out because the public were led to beleive that the restructuring process was being undertaken in order to save jobs, the fall out of the restructuring process were massive layoffs and cuts in benefits and wages with wall street bankers making millions of dollars in fees from the restructuring, how does that square with the earlier promise to tax payers that jobs would be saved?

Unless you are a beneficiary of these massive pay outs and bonuses i see no reason why you should be vehemently defending such a corrupt system.

You need to bear in mind that no-one is safe from these mass layoffs which are currently taking place, today it may be GM workers tomorrow it might be a firm or corporation that you work for. Perhaps when you find yourself being laid off or asked to agree to a 50% slash to your salary or pension you might start looking at things differently.

At the end of the day, all human beings are not equal and those with the ability to exploit the system will make money. That is the capitalism. I am not about to go into the merits and demerits of capitalism, socialism, and communism with you because I know you are anti-capitalism and there is no point in having that debate with you. Lets just agree to disagree on that.

+1

All that complaining and whining he's doing is NOT going to change things. Besides, he's in the UK.

that chump is JEALOUS of EVERYTHING American.

something is WRONG with him. he's suffering from searing low self esteem and is only causing his own hearthache focusing on EVERYTHING that's WRONG in Amerikka while unable to do anything about it. Sad mofo

The race for 2012 is on and thats why he is playing Santa Claus with core democratic principles.

Obama desperately needs to get the swing voters back. And now the republicans serve him with a red hot opportunity to draw a line between democrats and republicans, he decided to wave the white flag I guess the aftermath of the Nov 2 shellacking is still resounding in the oval office.

MandingoII:

+1

All that complaining and whining he's doing is NOT going to change things. Besides, he's in the UK.

that chump is JEALOUS of EVERYTHING American.

something is WRONG with him. he's suffering from searing low self esteem and is only causing his own hearthache focusing on EVERYTHING that's WRONG in Amerikka while unable to do anything about it. Sad mofo

you are such an ignorant loser, what exactly have you got that i would be jealous of?

If you even had a brain cell in your head you would understand that your economy is headed for a massive meltdown, you are too dumb to understand that your banking elite has sold you down the river.  Your below average mentality prevents you from seeing the bigger picture.  Are you aware that China is about to pull the rug from underneath america's feet? very soon the US dollar will no longer be the world reserve currency and then guess what you can look forward to becoming a third world nation with hyperinflation, food shortages, astronomical food prices, accelerated foreclosures and mass unemployment.

I cant wait to see how the likes of people like you will survive the coming hyperinflation and mass unemployment.

So keep dreaming and deluding yourself that you are safe.

With america's track record on race relations people like you will be some of the first casualties of the imminent mass unemployment and foreclosures.

@tpia1,

not at all surprised to read this. cap28 is a loose cannon. usually very loud and with limited cognition. He overcompensates for this with bullheadedness

I wish you had given me this advise before I spent some time trying to hold a discussion with him. That's some few minutes I can never have back!

cap28:

Of course im focusing on who made money from the GM bail out because the public were led to beleive that the restructuring process was being undertaken in order to save jobs, the fall out of the restructuring process were massive layoffs and cuts in benefits and wages with wall street bankers making millions of dollars in fees from the restructuring, how does that square with the earlier promise to tax payers that jobs would be saved?

Unless you are a beneficiary of these massive pay outs and bonuses i see no reason why you should be vehemently defending such a corrupt system.

You need to bear in mind that no-one is safe from these mass layoffs which are currently taking place, today it may be GM workers tomorrow it might be a firm or corporation that you work for. Perhaps when you find yourself being laid off or asked to agree to a 50% slash to your salary or pension you might start looking at things differently.

Cap28
I am not defending a corrupt system; I am simply telling it as it is. Yes the American system is not perfect just as there isn't a perfect system in the world. Having said that, I still like the American model more than any other system because it rewards those with ability. Also, I can't criticise a system that provides basic amenities and infrastructure for its citizens when I come from a system where citizens are denied all kinds of basic rights, privileges etc. At the end of the day, I can analyse the demerits and merits of the American system but I can not take the high ground for the reasons that I mentioned above. The day when Nigeria is at par with the US, I may take that position. The question you have to ask yourself is this, 'should immigrants who seek a better life abroad criticise their host countries? or should they return home if they are unhappy with the situation in their host countries.'

Secondly, some individuals might have enriched themselves during the bailout but I choose to focus on two things
1. Those individuals are able to do so because they positioned themselves well. There are no secrets to it; if you do the right things, then you may get the reward. Should a manual worker who chose leisure over acquiring the necessary skills have the same compensation as a manager who chose to acquire the necessary skills often ignoring leisure to study and also taking a huge risk by becoming immersed in debt? I don't think so. Some of these managers you are castigating are not beneficiaries of a feudal elitist system.
2. Not all workers got fired; some workers are still employed

3. It is obvious that you are anti-capitalism but it does not make sense to keep complaining if you are not going to do something about it. What is the solution or solutions? What are your plans for correcting the imbalances in the system? Don't you think you should start at home (Nigeria) before embarking on some kind of new world order?

@Katsumoto,

I am sorry but you are wrong on so many accounts. The republicans are just bent on making life difficult for Obama which consequently makes life more difficult for the average American including those republican supporters who do not understand a damn thing. You argued that the republicans are right in discussing tax cuts first before any other proposals. Does that sound right? The only reason republicans want to discuss tax cuts first is because that affects them and their supporters more. The tax cuts being proposed by Obama are fair in my opinion because they extend tax cuts to 98% of people who will be able to have extra disposable income which will in turn drive the economy. Supply side economics can be argued in the case of tax cuts to 98% of tax-payers but not to 2% tax-payers who earn over $250,000.

Why $250K?  Why not $100K, $200K, $300K or $1,000K for that matter?  So someone who makes $255K has disposable income but one who makes $247K does not?  What is the rationale behind this magic number of $250K? From all indications, it has to do with the number of voters.  It smirks more of a political decision rather than economics.

Imagine this.  If I found out that I have made $250k by November and that anything I earn after that will be taxed at a higher rate, the tendency is there to just take the whole of December off rather than continue working for diminishing returns.  This is almost the same principles some low-income earners adopt in which they go off work when they realise that they will start paying taxes at a particular income threshold.  What will be fair and equitable for everyone is a flat tax irrespective of you income level.

Tayo-D:

@Katsumoto,
Why $250K?  Why not $100K, $200K, $300K or $1,000K for that matter?  So someone who makes $255K has disposable income but one who makes $247K does not?  What is the rationale behind this magic number of $250K? From all indications, it has to do with the number of voters.  It smirks more of a political decision rather than economics.

Imagine this.  If I found out that I have made $250k by November and that anything I earn after that will be taxed at a higher rate, the tendency is there to just take the whole of December off rather than continue working for diminishing returns.  This is almost the same principles some low-income earners adopt in which they go off work when they realise that they will start paying taxes at a particular income threshold.  What will be fair and equitable for everyone is a flat tax irrespective of you income level.

I get your argument but shouldn't individuals who profit more from the system not pay more into the system? Even Peter Peterson of the Blackstone Group argued in an interview on Bloomberg last week that the rich most pay more taxes. He argued in favour of a progressive tax system. At the end of the day, capitalists use infrastructure more than average workers. Since their benefit is higher, shouldn't their contribution be higher? You do realise that the proportion of revenue that goes into welfare programs is much smaller than other programs. America spends a lot on it defence budget. Whose assets are being protected by that defence spending? If North Korea bombs Seattle, who has more to lose - Bill gates or the security guards at the reception of Microsoft?

@Katsumoto,

All through this recession why is it that luxury good corporations did not suffer? It is because the rich were/are not affected yet there is a recession. That implies that the spending habits of the rich does not drive the conomy.

This is so not true.  While I can point to many luuxury goods and services that have taken a hit here in the US, I think I'll just share the following link with you from the BBC: The global recession has taken a toll on many big industries, the luxury sector being amongst the hardest hit.  Consulting and business strategy firm, Bain & Co, has estimated sales of luxury goods dropped by as much as 20% in just six months.  Prospects for the industry are looking brighter, with sales poised to grow by 1%. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8629956.stm

Secondly, the US has a budget deficit of approximately 11 percent of GDP and a total congress approved debt of $14 trillion. It is not brainer that the US must reduce its budget deficit and total budget. Does it make economic sense to extend tax cuts to people who will spend regardless of the economic climate?

Again, your premise in bold is wrong which nullifies the point you are making.  Tax cuts to the so-called rich will deprive the govt of additional $700 billion over ten years.  That pales in comparison to the $14 trillion debt.  It seems to me that spending cuts are more needed than taxing people who know how to make money.  I guarantee you that $700 billion in the hands of these investors will yield a higher return and more jobs for the country than it can ever do iin the hands of the govt.

@Katsumoto,

Sorry I have to be breaking up my responses.  I seem to be having problems with posting lengthy responses on the website.

In 2003, 450 economists argued against the tax cuts on the basis that it worsened the debt position. Bush argued on the basis of the laffer curve but we know that the laffer curve is not too relevant with regards to small increases and decreases. The laffer curve is very relevant when the tax percentages are huge. The costs of extending the tax cuts to the top 2% is $80 billion over two years and $830 billion over ten years.

I am sure that you are aware that the letter by those economists provoked a response by another 250 who opposed their position.  In these days when we cannot even believe our Scientists to tell us the truth about the so-called Global Warming, I always take anything that even professionals say with a pinch of salt.  Many now stake  their positions not on the facts, but on political leanings and persuasions.

These same people convinced us that unemployment will not exceed 8% if we passed the stimulus bill.  I guess we are all wiser now.  Have you noticed how every time there is a release of new economic data, it is always preceeded by the term "unexpected".  An unexpected jump in unemployment, jobless claims, sales etc,   We can't trust anybody anymore.  We have to use our common senses to draw conclusions that sit well with us.  Our Politicians, Economists, Scientists, Investors are all compromised!!!

Tayo-D:

@Katsumoto,
This is so not true.  While I can point to many luuxury goods and services that have taken a hit here in the US, I think I'll just share the following link with you from the BBC: The global recession has taken a toll on many big industries, the luxury sector being amongst the hardest hit.  Consulting and business strategy firm, Bain & Co, has estimated sales of luxury goods dropped by as much as 20% in just six months.  Prospects for the industry are looking brighter, with sales poised to grow by 1%. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8629956.stm

Please read the full report; at the height of the recession in 2008, this industry was still returning positive growth. How many industries were able to do that? Most industries contracted below 0% growth yet the luxury goods industry was complaining about going from 9% to 3-4%.

http://www.bain.com/bainweb/about/press_release_detail.asp?id=26657&menu_url=for_the_media.asp

Tayo-D:


Again, your premise in bold is wrong which nullifies the point you are making.  Tax cuts to the so-called rich will deprive the govt of additional $700 billion over ten years.  That pales in comparison to the $14 trillion debt.  It seems to me that spending cuts are more needed than taxing people who know how to make money.  I guarantee you that $700 billion in the hands of these investors will yield a higher return and more jobs for the country than it can ever do iin the hands of the govt.

The tax cuts are against personal income tax. Most wealthy individuals do not use their own funds to start ventures. They rely on bank loans and government subsidies for that. If government reduces corporation tax, then your argument may hold in terms of spurring growth in the private sector. But not taxing dividends, wages, assets, etc will not have much effect on stimulating the private sector simply because rich people don't use their personal funds for business.

@Katsumoto,

I get your argument but shouldn't individuals who profit more from the system not pay more into the system? Even Peter Peterson of the Blackstone Group argued in an interview on Bloomberg last week that the rich most pay more taxes. He argued in favour of a progressive tax system. At the end of the day, capitalists use infrastructure more than average workers.  Since their benefit is higher, shouldn't their contribution be higher?

I do not agree with this argument at all.  If anything, I believe rich people use less government services than the rest of us, just as the middle class use less govt services than the poor.  For instance, I send my kids to private school despite the fact that I pay taxes that go into funding public schools.  I don't use the serives even though I pay into it.  Chances are that many children are in the public schools even though their parents pay no dime in taxes.  Infact they get food stamps, unemployment checks, section 8 housing and free day care despite the fact that they do not pay a dime into running the system.

You do realise that the proportion of revenue that goes into welfare programs is much smaller than other programs.

That is not true.  The biggest chunk of the budget goes to service welfare programs that the rich do not partake of.  See the following chart http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/welfare_budget_2010_4.html

America spends a lot on it defence budget. Whose assets are being protected by that defence spending?

That is true and I believe that we can find some savings here as well.  Everything should be on the table.

If North Korea bombs Seattle, who has more to lose -Bill gates or the security guards at the reception of Microsoft?

You'd be surprised.  In these days of bailouts, I won't be surprised if old Bill ends up with more bills at the end of the day  !  See why I am against bailouts?

Katsumoto:

Cap28
I am not defending a corrupt system; I am simply telling it as it is. Yes the American system is not perfect just as there isn't a perfect system in the world. Having said that, I still like the American model more than any other system because it rewards those with ability.

If that is indeed the case why is it that less than 1% of america's population owns 60% of all corporate stock and all business assets and 90% of all tax free bonds ?
Also if your above statement is correct- how is it that George W Bush became president of the US despite his limited intellectual ability?  

Again if what you say is true why is it that most of the people who occupy the highest leadership positions in the US ie the presidency (Obama being the exception to the rule) , vice presidency, supreme court judges  - tend to always be white upper class males from affluent backgrounds.

I would advise you to go and research an organisation known as the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) which is a powerful think tank responsible for advising on US policy. It is made up of prominent people drawn from finance, industry and government with the majority of its members coming from families of inherited wealth, over 60% of its members are corporate lawyers, executives and bankers.

Also, I can't criticise a system that provides basic amenities and infrastructure for its citizens when I come from a system where citizens are denied all kinds of basic rights, privileges etc. At the end of the day, I can analyse the demerits and merits of the American system but I can not take the high ground for the reasons that I mentioned above. The day when Nigeria is at par with the US, I may take that position. The question you have to ask yourself is this, 'should immigrants who seek a better life abroad criticise their host countries? or should they return home if they are unhappy with the situation in their host countries.'

Well thats because you feel fortunate to find yourself living in the white man's land, you also have failed to realise that it was the slave labour of your african ancestors that provided the economic  foundation that generated the huge wealth that the US currently enjoys today.

If america had not engaged in the slave trade america would not be the prosperous nation that it is today, therefore to say that you are in no position to take the high ground in respect of their ill gotten wealth smacks of naivite.

Furthermore you seem to have missed the glaringly obvious part that the US has played and continues to play in the economic enslavement of nigeria, have you forgotten that it was under IBB that nigeria ended up ensnared in US imposed IMF and world bank loans, you might also want to find out why america sells billions of dollars in arms to our dictators.

How about nigeria's slavish compliance to economic policies dictated to us from washington with the  intention of keeping us in a perpetual state of underdevelopment.
Perhaps you are unaware of the close ties that the US has had with numerous african dictators over the years, how do you think the likes of Mobutu were able to remain in power for 35 years despite the atrocities he committed against his people.

If you see yourself as an immigrant who should remain eternally grateful for being allowed to live in the west - that is your prerogative, i on the other hand do not see myself in that way, probably because i have spent a great part of my life in the west as well as nigeria and therefore as a law abiding tax payer who has made my own contribution, i beleive i am entitled to air my opinion. 

Secondly, some individuals might have enriched themselves during the bailout but I choose to focus on two things
1. Those individuals are able to do so because they positioned themselves well. There are no secrets to it; if you do the right things, then you may get the reward. Should a manual worker who chose leisure over acquiring the necessary skills have the same compensation as a manager who chose to acquire the necessary skills often ignoring leisure to study and also taking a huge risk by becoming immersed in debt? I don't think so. Some of these managers you are castigating are not beneficiaries of a feudal elitist system.

I can see that you have a great deal of admiration and respect for people who abuse positions of power and loot the public treasury, fortunately the average educated american does not reason like you and this is why america is an advanced society while nigeria remains a basket case where people like you praise and respect immoral kleptocrats.

What amazes me is that you are in no way benefitting from any of these appropriated millions, infact you are more than likely to end up as a casualty of the ongoing job losses and yet you kow tow before these people who have created so much misery for the average man on the street.

The problem with people like you is that when you get a few bits of loose change in your pocket and find that you are now able  to eat three square meals a day you suddenly start to imagine that you are above other people, first of all not everyone in society has to be a manager or acquire degrees  in order to be regarded as a useful member of society, the firemen, train drivers, dustbin men, street sweepers, bus drivers are all blue collar workers but their services are so crucial to the everyday running of society that if anyone of these workers went on strike the society would grind to an immediate halt.  Your disdain for the ordinary worker and admiration for the corrupt investment banker demonstrates just how limited you are in terms of intelligence.  You remind me of so many nigerians that i come across who idolise status and wealth but lack basic common sense. Is it any wonder that nigeria is in the state that it is in.
Nigeria is full of supposedly educated people like yourself who think that education is about aquiring letters after their name and looking down on those who have not acquired material possessions.

One thing you have failed to understand is that in the western world most self made wealthy people are wealthy not because they set out to pursue wealth not because they  idolised wealth and status  but because they had a natural talent in a particular areas which ultimately made them rich.

2. Not all workers got fired; some workers are still employed

Yes some workers are still employed minus the benefits and other allowances that they were entitled to before their employers decided to start restructuring the businesses.

3. It is obvious that you are anti-capitalism but it does not make sense to keep complaining if you are not going to do something about it. What is the solution or solutions? What are your plans for correcting the imbalances in the system? Don't you think you should start at home (Nigeria) before embarking on some kind of new world order?

It does not make sense to you because you have grown up in an environment where freedom of thought and expression is non existent, your mind is geared towards getting ahead and you dont really care how you do it, this is why issues such as this are meaningless to you, unfortunately for you, you are in an environment where you are just another invisible black face, when the time comes for your employer to start laying off employees, you will be one of the first to go being a black man. It doesnt really matter how much kow towing and obeisance you pay to wealth and status, as a black man in the western world the odds are already severely stacked against you.

cap28:

If that is indeed the case why is it that less than 1% of america's population owns almost 40% of the wealth of the country? Also if your above statement is correct- how is it that George W Bush became president of the US despite his limited intellectual ability?  

Again if what you say is true why is it that most of the people who occupy the highest leadership positions in the US ie the presidency (Obama being the exception to the rule) , vice presidency, supreme court judges  - tend to always be white upper class males from affluent backgrounds.

Also why is it that most policy makers tend to be directors of corporations, corporate lawyers, wall street bankers and academics from elite institutions.


Well thats because you feel fortunate to find yourself living in the white man's land, you also have failed to realise that it was the slave labour of your african ancestors that provided the economic  foundation that generated the huge wealth that the US currently enjoys today.

If america had not engaged in the slave trade america would not be the prosperous nation that it is today, therefore to say that you are in no position to take the high ground in respect of their ill gotten wealth smacks of naivite.

Furthermore you seem to have missed the glaringly obvious part that the US has played and continues to play in the economic enslavement of nigeria, have you forgotten that it was under IBB that nigeria ended up ensnared in US imposed IMF and world bank loans, you might also want to find out why america sells billions of dollars in arms to our dictators.

How about nigeria's slavish compliance to economic policies dictated to us from washington with the  intention of keeping us in a perpetual state of underdevelopment.
Perhaps you are unaware of the close ties that the US has had with numerous african dictators over the years, how do you think the likes of Mobutu were able to remain in power for 35 years despite the atrocities he committed against his people.

If you see yourself as an immigrant who should remain eternally grateful for being allowed to live in the west - that is your prerogative, i on the other hand do not see myself in that way, probably because i have spent a great part of my life in the west as well as nigeria and therefore as a law abiding tax payer who has made my own contribution, i beleive i am entitled to air my opinion. 

I can see that you have a great deal of admiration and respect for people who abuse positions of power and loot the public treasury, fortunately the average educated american does not reason like you and this is why america is an advanced society while nigeria remains a basket case where people like you praise and respect immoral kleptocrats.

What amazes me is that you are in no way benefitting from any of these appropriated millions, infact you are more than likely to end up as a casualty of the ongoing job losses and yet you kow tow before these people who have created so much misery for the average man on the street.

The problem with people like you is that when you get a few bits of loose change in your pocket and find that you are now able  to eat three square meals a day you suddenly start to imagine that you are above other people, first of all not everyone in society has to be a manager or acquire degrees  in order to be regarded as a useful member of society, the firemen, train drivers, dustbin men, street sweepers, bus drivers are all blue collar workers but their services are so crucial to the everyday running of society that if anyone of these workers went on strike the society would grind to an immediate halt.  Your disdain for the ordinary worker and admiration for the corrupt investment banker demonstrates just how limited you are in terms of intelligence.  You remind me of so many nigerians that i come across who idolise status and wealth but lack basic common sense. Is it any wonder that nigeria is in the state that it is in.
Nigeria is full of supposedly educated people like yourself who think that education is about aquiring letters after their name and looking down on those who have not acquired material possessions.

One thing you have failed to understand is that in the western world most self made wealthy people are wealthy not because they set out to pursue wealth not because they  idolised wealth and status  but because they had a natural talent in a particular areas which ultimately made them rich.
Yes some workers are still employed minus the benefits and other allowances that they were entitled to before their employers decided to start restructuring the businesses.

It does not make sense to you because you have grown up in an environment where freedom of thought and expression is non existent, your mind is geared towards getting ahead and you dont really care how you do it, this is why issues such as this are meaningless to you, unfortunately for you, you are in an environment where you are just another invisible black face, when the time comes for your employer to start laying off employees, you will be one of the first to go being a black man. It doesnt really matter how much kow towing and obeisance you pay to wealth and status, as a black man in the western world the odds are already severely stacked against you.

Why must you personalise every argument? You do not know me, yet you go about conjecturing unnecessarily.

Katsumoto:

Why must you personalise every argument? You do not know me, yet you go about conjecturing unnecessarily.

I do not know you but i respond to you based on the way you project yourself on here and for the most part you come across as a pretentious wannabe.

Citigroup stake sale makes $12bn profit for US taxpayers

07 Dec 2010 | 08:56
Hysni Kaso

Categories: US

Tags: Citigroup

The US government sold off its remaining shares in Citigroup yesterday, making a strong profit from its ownership of the bailed-out banking giant.
citigroup

The share sale at $4.35 each, 10 cents below Citi's $4.45 closing price on the NYSE, means the Treasury has generated a $12bn gross profit for taxpayers from the stake, Reuters reports.

Katsumoto:

Citigroup stake sale makes $12bn profit for US taxpayers

07 Dec 2010 | 08:56
Hysni Kaso

Categories: US

Tags: Citigroup

The US government sold off its remaining shares in Citigroup yesterday, making a strong profit from its ownership of the bailed-out banking giant.
citigroup

The share sale at $4.35 each, 10 cents below Citi's $4.45 closing price on the NYSE, means the Treasury has generated a $12bn gross profit for taxpayers from the stake, Reuters reports.

Citigroup received $249 billion dollars in tax payer bail out money despite saddling the govt with  $306 billion dollars in worthless toxic assets.

At the time that the money was lent to Citigroup there were no requirements that the bank use the federal money to lend to other banks, businesses or consumers.

To date Citigroup has laid off approximately 150,000 workers, it also wrote off $11 billion in toxic subprime mortgages.

the bailout monies that Citigroup received were used to buy up smaller institutions and consolidate power in the hands of four mega-banks—JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and Citigroup itself.

Do you now understand how they were able to make the $12 billion in profits ?

Negro_Ntns:

Katsumoto,

Listen to what Cap is saying. . . . .underneath all these dealings there is a shadyness that makes government a co-conspirator in the wall street shenanigans.

I was posting a response to you this morning and was banned for content. Here is a retry of the content but in a summarized version. . . . The economy is in trouble from two quarters - public treasury and private capital market. The root causes for their problems is outlined in brief below:

1. Public treasury - root cause for this problem is the "shock and awe" failure in Baghdad.

2. Private market - President Bush froze, seized and penalized underground monetary networks (real property). The sanctions choked off buoyancy to the conventional banking networks and damaged their holding vaults, which is valued in raw assets. Mortgages and fund markets (real property mixed with prospect yields) both subsist on the raw assets and so they went belly up when their source of investments dried up.

I hope this posting is not censored and you can read this summarized version.

thank you bro, thank god at least someone on here is reasoning properly, it never ceases to amaze me when nigerians in the west, who in many cases are one pay check away from destitution slavishly defend a system which does not benefit them in anyway, i can understand an ivy league educated corporate lawyer or wall street investment banker extolling the virtues of wall street and its crooked back room deals , but for a mere wage slave like Katsumoto to keep parrotting economic drivel that he can barely understand and pretending to be a member of a class that he is not completely baffles me.  The funny thing is that the likes of Katsumoto and his ilk would find it difficult to even get a job as a janitor in any of these major financial institutions and yet like a brainwashed docile slave he continues to deceive himself into beleiving that he is a beneficiary of a ruthless capitalist system.

In these days when we cannot even believe our Scientists to tell us the truth about the so-called Global Warming, I always take anything that even professionals say with a pinch of salt. Many now stake their positions not on the facts, but on political leanings and persuasions.

These same people convinced us that unemployment will not exceed 8% if we passed the stimulus bill. I guess we are all wiser now. Have you noticed how every time there is a release of new economic data, it is always preceeded by the term "unexpected". An unexpected jump in unemployment, jobless claims, sales etc, We can't trust anybody anymore. We have to use our common senses to draw conclusions that sit well with us. Our Politicians, Economists, Scientists, Investors are all compromised!!!

Brilliant response!

How about the argument that Tim Geithner was the only person, in the entire country, most qualified to solve the economic problem and that Senate must not consider his tax evasion as grounds for disqualification as Secretary of the Treasury - the department that oversees IRS?

So much for intelligence! . . . .and they wonder why the unintelligent Sarah Palin is pulling the political carpet from under them.

Too much theories, no applications. It is going to get worse because even when the economy start to recover many people might prefer to remain on their welfare programs and earn more for doing nothing than go back to earn an insulting wage under back breaking employment conditions.

Negro_Ntns:

Brilliant response!

How about the argument that Tim Geithner was the only person, in the entire country, most qualified to solve the economic problem and that Senate must not consider his tax evasion as grounds for disqualification as Secretary of the Treasury - the department that oversees IRS?

So much for intelligence! . . . .and they wonder why the unintelligent Sarah Palin is pulling the political carpet from under them.

Too much theories, no applications. It is going to get worse because even when the economy start to recover many people might prefer to remain on their welfare programs and earn more for doing nothing than go back to earn an insulting wage under back breaking employment conditions.

Unemployment insurance was extended for a further 13 months as part of the agreement for the Bush tax cut extension. If that is the case, after 13 months, how will an unemployed person continue to receive benefits?

I did not vote for him the first time around and she sure ain't gerrin' ma vote this time around either.
Nice fellow though.
Pretty decent.

Unemployment insurance was extended for a further 13 months as part of the agreement for the Bush tax cut extension. If that is the case, after 13 months, how will an unemployed person continue to receive benefits?

. . . . by seeking to exercise rights of eligibility in those aspects of the legislation that does not raise a prohibition for the entitlement.  That's how they have done it and that's how they will continue to do it. 

Do you know how many benefits exist beside unemployment insurance?  SSI, worker's comp, Disability, Veteran's, Medicare. . . . .    it's a gold mine for those who know how to exploit the loop holes.

you are such an ignorant loser, what exactly have you got that i would be jealous of?

If you even had a brain cell in your head you would understand that your economy is headed for a massive meltdown, you are too dumb to understand that your banking elite has sold you down the river. Your below average mentality prevents you from seeing the bigger picture. Are you aware that China is about to pull the rug from underneath america's feet? very soon the US dollar will no longer be the world reserve currency and then guess what you can look forward to becoming a third world nation with hyperinflation, food shortages, astronomical food prices, accelerated foreclosures and mass unemployment.

I cant wait to see how the likes of people like you will survive the coming hyperinflation and mass unemployment.

So keep dreaming and deluding yourself that you are safe.

With america's track record on race relations people like you will be some of the first casualties of the imminent mass unemployment and foreclosures.

I suspect that in the UK your weak a.r.s.e Nigerian Degree was not recognized. so you had to take work as a commoner. Then the U.S. refuse you a VISA. LOL!!!! Rough over there in England aye? coming from Nigerian upscale to U.K. bottom feeder only to find that the U.K. lives for Everything American and YOU CAN'T GET HERE.

MandingoII:

I suspect that in the UK your weak a.r.s.e Nigerian Degree was not recognized. so you had to take work as a commoner. Then the U.S. refuse you a VISA. LOL!!!! Rough over there in England aye? coming from Nigerian upscale to U.K. bottom feeder only to find that the U.K. lives for Everything American and YOU CAN'T GET HERE.

I have been to the US so many times and as a UK citizen i don't need a visa to get there, I can move to the US anytime i want to but i have chosen not to, the next place that i will be going to will be my father's land - nigeria.

Why are you so concerned about me and my qualifications, try focusing on how your beloved america has failed black people like you and continues to treat you as second class citizens.  Your so caught up in your dream world thinking that you are above africans that you can't see how white america has screwed you up mentally.  They taught you how to hate yourself to the extent that you don't want to be affiliated to the land of your ancestors, the other day i was reading one of your posts headed "thank god for slavery" is it any wonder white people in america treat people like you like garbage.  Who would respect someone who hates themself?

In almost all of your posts you keep trying to convince yourself that you are above africans and how grateful you are to have been born an african american, and yet this great america that you love so deeply has throughout history shown you nothing but hatred and contempt.

I feel sorry for you because you are so confused and twisted, it must be mental torture being you - you're not wanted in the land of your birth and you have refused to embrace the land of your ancestors.

Like i said get ready for the imminent collapse of the US empire - the handwriting is on the wall, and you will be the first one to be affected - you only have to look at all the major cities where blacks are in the majority ie detroit, washington and see the level of unemployment, rising crime and despair, and you will understand what i mean.

Detroit , michigan which is a predominantly black city has been one of the hardest hit since this recession started - the auto industry which used to be a major employer of african americans has shed so many of its workers , unemployment in detroit now stands at  27%  -take a look at the place now:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCm1tQfuHeg&NR=1


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eR5bZ-lRL4&NR=1&feature=fvwp


see what corporate america has done to your people:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hamL1H-rjhw

is this the sort of place you think i'd want to leave the UK to come live in? you must be crazy??

mandingo - this is what awaits you, come the imminent economic collapse of the US economy:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8no3SMt1Ek