lexy2014:


So how many Canadian IT professionals leave Canada and come to Nigeria for "better opportunities"? U have a "legacy and active system" in Nigeria yet u ran away from Nigeria. Y do Chinese and Americans not come to Nigeria for better opportunities in IT?

"They are doing well in different areas of computing". How much practical is this "different areas"? Much of d practical that u no did u learn it in d classroom?

So seeing that everyone can't go to the West and Middle East, what should we now do? Discard the one we have and call it a scam like that guy did? You still make it seem as if I ever said Nigeria is better. Canadians and others don't go there cause Canada and others are better. This is not the bone of contention cause I never disputed that. I'm advocating for people to make the best use what is available instead of whining online shouting "education is a scam". It doesn't help anybody.

I got the basics of programming from Basic Computer Studies in my JSS3 back in Nigeria (I used to write codes on paper after school till I was able to convince my dad to get me an old desktop pc). I was able to write QBASIC and GW BASIC to compute the areas of different shapes then. I was disappointed when I got into the uni and saw QBASIC as CSS101 (it has been changed now by NUC) but that didn't just make me to shine as the programmer of the class but also mounted pressure on me to learn more so as to sustain this title. I made use of the Internet anytime I had the money and asked my senior course mates who were into programming a lot of questions, and was excited by any program related course like Object Oriented Programming, Software Analysis and Design, Algorithm Development, Web Design and Development, Data Structures, Database Management Systems, etc. We had few practicals but I'd always take it beyond that when I get back to my lodge (all I needed was a PC and an IDE), I'd always go to my trusted lecturers after class to ask more questions and when it was time for IT, I got a position somewhere where I was not paid but got a lot of experience. The same coy was my first employer after I graduated. The theories I learned in school like the SOLID design principles, OOP, etc. are what differentiates me from a roadside programmer today and that prompted me to go back for MSc. I got an offer from Canada because I was able to prove my competence both theoretically and practically.

Education is not the best in Nigeria but we should always ask ourselves if we, as individuals, have maximised the best it has to offer. Even when it just doesn't work out for us, let's desist from discouraging others.

etrange:


So seeing that everyone can't go to the West and Middle East, what should we now do? Discard the one we have and call it a scam like that guy did? You still make it seem as if I ever said Nigeria is better. Canadians and others don't go there cause Canada and others are better. This is not the bone of contention cause I never disputed that. I'm advocating for people to make the best use what is available instead of whining online shouting "education is a scam". It doesn't help anybody.

I got the basics of programming from Basic Computer Studies in my JSS3 back in Nigeria (I used to write codes on paper after school till I was able to convince my dad to get me an old desktop pc). I was able to write QBASIC and GW BASIC to compute the areas of different shapes then. I was disappointed when I got into the uni and saw QBASIC as CSS101 (it has been changed now by NUC) but that didn't just make me to shine as the programmer of the class but also mounted pressure on me to learn more so as to sustain this title. I made use of the Internet anytime I had the money and asked my senior course mates who were into programming a lot of questions, and was excited by any program related course like Object Oriented Programming, Software Analysis and Design, Algorithm Development, Web Design and Development, Data Structures, Database Management Systems, etc. We had few practicals but I'd always take it beyond that when I get back to my lodge (all I needed was a PC and an IDE), I'd always go to my trusted lecturers after class to ask more questions and when it was time for IT, I got a position somewhere where I was not paid but got a lot of experience. The same coy was my first employer after I graduated. The theories I learned in school like the SOLID design principles, OOP, etc. are what differentiates me from a roadside programmer today and that prompted me to go back for MSc. I got an offer from Canada because I was able to prove my competence both theoretically and practically.

Education is not the best in Nigeria but we should always ask ourselves if we, as individuals, have maximised the best it has to offer. Even when it just doesn't work out for us, let's desist from discouraging others.

First of, u sounded so high and mighty and I actually thought u were here in Nigeria grinding it out until u said u were abroad. U keep saying u got an offer as if u didn't seek 4d offer. D offer didn't fall from heaven. U sought for it despite u having "a legacy and active systems" here in Nigeria. In much of ur defence, u have talked about ur personal effort that has moulded u which seems more than what u received from school. U can run away to Canada for better opportunities and Canadians cant leave their country for nigeria because their educational system has produced many professionals who have technical abilities that solve problems in their society. Our educational system doesn't. U recognized that fact& u chose to leave ur "legacy and active systems" behind and go were things work. Now someone criticises d system which produced d society which u ran away from and u say d person is a "failed tout". Am finding it difficult drawing a correlation with ur harsh words for d guy and ur personal decision to better ur life in Canada. Cos if u feel that what we have here is so precious, u have no business being abroad

lexy2014:


First of, u sounded so high and mighty and I actually thought u were here in Nigeria grinding it out until u said u were abroad. U keep saying u got an offer as if u didn't seek 4d offer. D offer didn't fall from heaven. U sought for it despite u having "a legacy and active systems" here in Nigeria. In much of ur defence, u have talked about ur personal effort that has moulded u which seems more than what u received from school. U can run away to Canada for better opportunities and Canadians cant leave their country for nigeria because their educational system has produced many professionals who have technical abilities that solve problems in their society. Our educational system doesn't. U recognized that fact& u chose to leave ur "legacy and active systems" behind and go were things work. Now someone criticises d system which produced d society which u ran away from and u say d person is a "failed tout". Am finding it difficult drawing a correlation with ur harsh words for d guy and ur personal decision to better ur life in Canada. Cos if u feel that what we have here is so precious, u have no business being abroad

You have deliberately ignored my point. I have maintained that Canada is better. I never stated otherwise. Nigeria is also better than some countries in terms of education. And one will always seek better opportunities be it in his home country or out there. Criticism is great as it paves way for improvement. These are facts, we don't need to reiterate them as if those are crux of the discussion.

The guy I quoted said Computer Science is a waste of time in Nigeria and that it's better to study... (can't remember what) there and that education is a scam (a popular saying that that discourages the desire to go to school in the minds of our lads). And I totally disagree. Saying the teaching techniques is substandard and can't stand shoulder to shoulder with what we have here in Canada is true but it's still worthwhile cause when the desired is not available, the available becomes desired. I studied Computer Science and I have many friends who did. It is what pays my bills today. I might have been better if I had studied it outside the country but I didn't have the resources then. I made the best use of what I had pending when I get something better. I knew some people made it before me with our poor education and they didn't have two heads so I tried to do same.

Even if I didn't succeed well enough, it added value to me. Some people out there did a million times better than myself with the same substandard education. I'll always criticize the substandard education but I will not directly or indirectly discourage our youngsters from going to school and studying Computer Science cause that's all they have for now and that guy's statement does just that. You're telling the young ones reading the forum that Computer Science is a waste of time in Nigeria (probably cause it didn't make any tangible addition to you), what alternative do you leave them with?

Sorry bro, I needed to set things straight for anyone reading. They can still make it in Computing even with our poor education.

etrange:



You have deliberately ignored my point. I have maintained that Canada is better. I never stated otherwise. Nigeria is also better than some countries in terms of education. And one will always seek better opportunities be it in his home country or out there. Criticism is great as it paves way for improvement. These are facts, we don't need to reiterate them as if those are crux of the discussion.

The guy I quoted said Computer Science is a waste of time in Nigeria and that it's better to study... (can't remember what) there and that education is a scam (a popular saying that that discourages the desire to go to school in the minds of our lads). And I totally disagree. Saying the teaching techniques is substandard and can't stand shoulder to shoulder with what we have here in Canada is true but it's still worthwhile cause when the desired is not available, the available becomes desired. I studied Computer Science and I have many friends who did. It is what pays my bills today. I might have been better if I had studied it outside the country but I didn't have the resources then. I made the best use of what I had pending when I get something better. I knew some people made it before me with our poor education and they didn't have two heads so I tried to do same.

Even if I didn't succeed well enough, it added value to me. Some people out there did a million times better than myself with the same substandard education. I'll always criticize the substandard education but I will not directly or indirectly discourage our youngsters from going to school and studying Computer Science cause that's all they have for now and that guy's statement does just that. You're telling the young ones reading the forum that Computer Science is a waste of time in Nigeria (probably cause it didn't make any tangible addition to you), what alternative do you leave them with?

Sorry bro, I needed to set things straight for anyone reading. They can still make it in Computing even with our poor education.

D issue is very straightforward and I haven't ignored ur point. I have taken it and put it side by side d decision u made to seek "better opportunities" abroad and they are parallel lines. What d gentleman offered was a critique of d Nigerian educational system. What he said are truths that are well known to each& everyone of us. Funny enough, u haven't been able to debunk d things he said. U are saying because what he said is unpalatable, it will discourage others. D question is, are we not all already aware of these things?

U left Nigeria to seek for "better opportunities". Why? U have been diplomatic with ur response compared to how u attacked d guy. D fact is u were discouraged. Was it d guy who made discouraging statements that discouraged u? No it wasn't him. It's d reality of what he said which we are all aware of that made u take d decision to seek for greener pastures. If d educational system of Canada was similar to that of Nigeria, would there be a Canada for u to flee to?

U can't be in Canada and from there telling people in Nigeria not to speak d reality about d environment were u fled from. D fact is that u lack d moral authority to call someone a "failed tout" because he criticised d educational system which has created d environment which u ran away from. If u were here in Nigeria, it's a different case. D fact that fled to Canada only lends credence to d sentiments d guy shared.

U even had this to say: "His mates in computing are doing wonders across the nation". Nigeria is more than 192,000 square kilometers with 37 federating units and u are nowhere to be found within d borders of Nigeria and u are criticising others. U are saying u have "legacy and active systems". Why did u leave them and run away to look for "better opportunities"? If Canadians all left their "legacy and active systems" and travelled abroad seeking for "better opportunities", would u see Canada to go to? In my opinion u are being hypocritical in ur criticism because u haven't shown that u believe in d country and its systems that u don't want criticised. It's like buhari saying don't eat foreign rice and purchase made in Nigeria goods, yet ordinary ear infection, he will run to London.

etrange:

I might have been better if I had studied it outside the country but I didn't have the resources then.

lexy2014:


D issue is very straightforward and I haven't ignored ur point. I have taken it and put it side by side d decision u made to seek "better opportunities" abroad and they are parallel lines. What d gentleman offered was a critique of d Nigerian educational system. What he said are truths that are well known to each& everyone of us. Funny enough, u haven't been able to debunk d things he said. U are saying because what he said is unpalatable, it will discourage others. D question is, are we not all already aware of these things?

U left Nigeria to seek for "better opportunities". Why? U have been diplomatic with ur response compared to how u attacked d guy. D fact is u were discouraged. Was it d guy who made discouraging statements that discouraged u? No it wasn't him. It's d reality of what he said which we are all aware of that made u take d decision to seek for greener pastures. If d educational system of Canada was similar to that of Nigeria, would there be a Canada for u to flee to?

U can't be in Canada and from there telling people in Nigeria not to speak d reality about d environment were u fled from. D fact is that u lack d moral authority to call someone a "failed tout" because he criticised d educational system which has created d environment which u ran away from. If u were here in Nigeria, it's a different case. D fact that fled to Canada only lends credence to d sentiments d guy shared.

U even had this to say: "His mates in computing are doing wonders across the nation". Nigeria is more than 192,000 square kilometers with 37 federating units and u are nowhere to be found within d borders of Nigeria and u are criticising others. U are saying u have "legacy and active systems". Why did u leave them and run away to look for "better opportunities"? If Canadians all left their "legacy and active systems" and travelled abroad seeking for "better opportunities", would u see Canada to go to? In my opinion u are being hypocritical in ur criticism because u haven't shown that u believe in d country and its systems that u don't want criticised. It's like buhari saying don't eat foreign rice and purchase made in Nigeria goods, yet ordinary ear infection, he will run to London.

If you keep asking why I left, then you're just trying to mislead any reader into believing I have anything against leaving Nigeria for better countries and I really don't know where you got that notion from. I left Nigeria years after graduation for better working opportunities. These opportunities came to me cause of my education and work experience in Nigeria. I wouldn't be here if I had bought into the "Computer Science is a waste of time" or "education is a scam" mantra. They're people from the UK here, there are people from France here, there people from the US here, etc. People will always move. Even people from Ghana you mentioned are moving. Moving on it's own doesn't guarantee success so if you get the chance to move, weigh your options and make your decision. I had the chance and I knew I could still support my Nigerian clients from here. Saying I'm not anywhere to be found in Nigeria is outrightly ridiculous cause programming does not require you to be within the client's location. I had done many remote jobs for clients in other countries before I left Nigeria. I used my story as an example cause you asked but this is not about me, it's about a misconception; it's about Nigerian youths "lazying" around and comfortably blaming it on the government cause 'that's what everybody does' and it's the most acceptable cause of failure.

Let me reiterate my point for clarity sake and so we do not deviate much: studying Computer Science in Nigeria is not a waste of time. If you can study it somewhere better, fine. If you can't, please go ahead and do yourself the good of getting a computing degree, it's worthwhile. There are many people who did and made something out of it, focus on them and not on those who only noticed the weakness of Nigeria's education system. This has always been my point.

_{NB: I'm 'diplomatic' cause you've been tactful with your responses as well.}

etrange:


If you keep asking why I left, then you're just trying to mislead any reader into believing I have anything against leaving Nigeria for better countries and I really don't know where you got that notion from. I left Nigeria years after graduation for better working opportunities. These opportunities came to me cause of my education and work experience in Nigeria. I wouldn't be here if I had bought into the "Computer Science is a waste of time" or "education is a scam" mantra. They're people from the UK here, there are people from France here, there people from the US here, etc. People will always move. Even people from Ghana you mentioned are moving. Moving on it's own doesn't guarantee success so if you get the chance to move, weigh your options and make your decision. I had the chance and I knew I could still support my Nigerian clients from here. Saying I'm not anywhere to be found in Nigeria is outrightly ridiculous cause programming does not require you to be within the client's location. I had done many remote jobs for clients in other countries before I left Nigeria. I used my story as an example cause you asked but this is not about me, it's about a misconception; it's about Nigerian youths "lazying" around and comfortably blaming it on the government cause 'that's what everybody does' and it's the most acceptable cause of failure.

Let me reiterate my point for clarity sake and so we do not deviate much: studying Computer Science in Nigeria is not a waste of time. If you can study it somewhere better, fine. If you can't, please go ahead and do yourself the good of getting a computing degree, it's worthwhile. There are many people who did and made something out of it, focus on them and not on those who only noticed the weakness of Nigeria's education system. This has always been my point.

_{NB: I'm 'diplomatic' cause you've been tactful with your responses as well.}

I don't remember mentioning Ghana in d course of my interaction with u and I never said u have anything against travelling out for better opportunities. What I said which I will emphasise is that since u chose to flee d country, u don't have d moral right to attack those who criticise d system which u ran away from. Ur leaving Nigeria only lays credence to d points made by d guy u attacked because if d Nigerian school system was good, u wouldn't have left.

etrange:

I might have been better if I had studied it outside the country but I didn't have the resources then.

This clearly shows that d same educational system which was criticised for which u attacked others, is d same one that u never had faith in. So u recognise that our educational system is shit but u take offence when people say d truth about it. It's OK for u to aspire for better education outside but u are offended when someone says d reason.

Yes, there are Americans and French in Canada seeking for new challenges not necessarily better opportunities. Same way there are Canadians in d US and France seeking for new challenges. That's y kiefer Sutherland a.k.a. jack Bauer shot 24 in d US. Could he have shot d film in Canada? Of course yes. Can d French and American guys in Canada get d same jobs in their home countries? Of course. What about standard of living and education? Yes. Can they get all they are getting in Canada in Nigeria? Capital no. That's exactly why u left Nigeria which corroborates what d gentleman said.

etrange:

it's about Nigerian youths "lazying" around and comfortably blaming it on the government cause 'that's what everybody does' and it's the most acceptable cause of failure.

I think u loathe and despise Nigerians. Not all Nigerian youths are lazy except maybe d meaning of d word lazy has changed. Considering d Nigerian environment, I will give Nigerian youths a pass mark. Of course there are some lazy Nigerians but in which country of d world don't u have lazy youths.

U fled to Canada for "better opportunities". How did Canada become so good that a foreigner can go there and have a good life? Its because d govts of Canada over d years has been committed to providing its citizens as well as its migrants with d best equal opportunities. That's y u can go there. So when u once again attack ur fellow Nigerians for demanding for their rights from govt, which u are now enjoying from d govt of Canada, its quite hypocritical. D constitution of d federal republic of Nigeria says in section 14(2b) that "the security and welfare of the people is the primary purpose of government". If d govt of Canada didn't provide for its people and was as negligent as d Nigerian govt, would u see Canada to flee to?

Like I noted earlier, Nigeria is large. For u to have left this large country with 37 federating units, 192,000 square kilometers of land and 200m people for Canada and u say u are building software from there, doesn't cut it. Why didn't u stay here to build softwares for your people since u are an advocate of them making d best of d local opportunities? U didn't need to move cos ur moving has discouraged others from believing in Nigeria. If everyone moves like u, who will be left. Much of ur work life will be invested in Canada. I don't see any reason why u couldn't stay in nigeria nd create "better opportunities" here.

etrange:


Well, you can either keep lamenting about the scam or, like other successful people here, make something out of the little you have. Whichever, don't discourage others.

Cleaner for abroad Dey earn more than your bank manager, what makes you think Nigeria is not a scam.. a nation that line up to vote in an economically, technologically weak man as a leader in a technology driven world. Google the new Pakistan leader, see what is he doing, google Paul kagame, see what he is doing to Rwanda after 22 years war. Jaappaaaa if you can no be fight, even their kids are out here enjoying life, you talking about Nigeria, if Nigeria better their kids for Dey there with una na

tegrianonigltd:



Cleaner for abroad Dey earn more than your bank manager, what makes you think Nigeria is not a scam.. a nation that line up to vote in an economically, technologically weak man as a leader in a technology driven world. Google the new Pakistan leader, see what is he doing, google Paul kagame, see what he is doing to Rwanda after 22 years war. Jaappaaaa if you can no be fight, even their kids are out here enjoying life, you talking about Nigeria, if Nigeria better their kids for Dey there with una na

You keep saying "if Nigeria is better...." as it anyone is saying Nigeria is better. Did you even read the message you quoted?

Are you living abroad yet? If not, will you deny yourself and your household education cause, like that guy said, it's a waste of time in Nigeria? Or will you send them to school and hope they make the best out of whatever the school has to offer?

etrange:


You keep saying "if Nigeria is better...." as it anyone is saying Nigeria is better. Did you even read the message you quoted?

Are you living abroad yet? If not, will you deny yourself and your household education cause, like that guy said, it's a waste of time in Nigeria? Or will you send them to school and hope they make the best out of whatever the school has to offer?

Na waste of time, I don Dey the abroad, them no even recognize our certificate for here

tegrianonigltd:



Na waste of time, I don Dey the abroad, them no even recognize our certificate for here

That's your story. You're probably not in the technical field and your cert is the only way you have to prove your competence. I stay abroad myself and without an extra degree yet, I'm a white-collar worker. And I encourage younger ones to take their education seriously regardless of how bad the system might be. Thanks.

etrange:


That's your story. You're probably not in the technical field and your cert is the only way you have to prove your competence. I stay abroad myself and without an extra degree yet, I'm a white-collar worker. And I encourage younger ones to take their education seriously regardless of how bad the system might be. Thanks.

Advance Diploma Software Engineering
Bsc information technology
Msc Business information system management

How technical can it be to be in a country that pushes you to your goal.. that make you want to be great, highest educated youths in America, Nigerians, I left in 500 final year, I no finish exam, my friend left 400 final year.. na waste of time guy.. big waste, 4 years down the line.. July I would be getting my Msc, working and getting paid well.. my brother.. their children Dey here dey school Dey ball. And you still want to believe in that nation Lol. If you have any means japa, best doctors in South Africa are Nigerians

tegrianonigltd:


Advance Diploma Software Engineering
Bsc information technology
Msc Business information system management

How technical can it be to be in a country that pushes you to your goal.. that make you want to be great, highest educated youths in America, Nigerians, I left in 500 final year, I no finish exam, my friend left 400 final year.. na waste of time guy.. big waste, 4 years down the line.. July I would be getting my Msc, working and getting paid well.. my brother.. their children Dey here dey school Dey ball. And you still want to believe in that nation Lol. If you have any means japa, best doctors in South Africa are Nigerians

You said Nigerian degrees aren't recognised where you are and I said you if were technical enough when you moved, your competence would come even before your degree. From what you just typed, you didn't even get a degree before moving. So on what grounds are you then saying it's not recognized? You think an American firm won't employ you if you're a good programmer just because your degrees is from Nigeria?

I live in Toronto, I'm a software Engineer. The school I finished from only comes into the discussion after the prospective employer has ascertained my competence and it has never been an issue for me.

Let's not deviate, my point remains that education is not a waste of time in Nigeria. It is not the best but not everyone has the resources of moving abroad so it's important that they make the best use of whatever Nigerian institutions have to offer instead of hiding under "education is a scam" and wasting away thier lives.

etrange:


You said Nigerian degrees aren't recognised where you are and I said you if were technical enough when you moved, your competence would come even before your degree. From what you just typed, you didn't even get a degree before moving. So on what grounds are you then saying it's not recognized? You think an American firm won't employ you if you're a good programmer just because your degrees is from Nigeria?

I live in Toronto, I'm a software Engineer. The school I finished from only comes into the discussion after the prospective employer has ascertained my competence and it has never been an issue for me.

Let's not deviate, my point remains that education is not a waste of time in Nigeria. It is not the best but not everyone has the resources of moving abroad so it's important that they make the best use of whatever Nigerian institutions have to offer instead of hiding under "education is a scam" and wasting away thier lives.

Go back Nigeria to be a software engineer, don’t live in Toronto and be giving them false hope, even cleaner for here dey feed well even if not rich.. you know in your heart it is a scam. Big scam, you know you can’t use Nigeria degree to work in America, except you are a skilled person and even at that, you need to get a degree to work, except you want to be freelancer

tegrianonigltd:



Go back Nigeria to be a software engineer, don’t live in Toronto and be giving them false hope, even cleaner for here dey feed well even if not rich.. you know in your heart it is a scam. Big scam, you know you can’t use Nigeria degree to work in America, except you are a skilled person and even at that, you need to get a degree to work, except you want to be freelancer

I'm tired. It's obvious you want to keep running in circles. I've told you my point a hundred times, you keep ignoring. Why should I go back to Nigeria when I'm in a better place? Why do you keep saying "go back to Nigeria" as if I ever compared Nigeria to the Americas? You don't want me to give them hope, I should tell all of them to drop out and school cause it's a scam, right? Is that what you tell your relatives at home? Just because I've seen a better society, I should discourage those at home from going to school, right? The same school my father went through and found the resource to raise me. You keep saying then can't work in America with their degrees, so they shouldn't get any degree at all cause your America will not recognise it? How many of them will eventually come to America to work? I've said I'm working with mine and I even got the job before moving so I honestly don't get you.

Dude, unless you want to take everyone you know to America or change the Nigerian education system overnight, telling our youngsters education is a waste of time does not in any way make things better.

Enjoy.