Katsumoto:

No country can be a leader if it always copies. The reason China is still behind the US and EU is because it copies heavily and it is yet to respect IP.

This is not true at all. Given how far China was behind, how on earth could you say that this is the reason? They've been the fastest growing country on earth over the past 20+ years. It will take time for them to ever catch up, if ever.

Japanese cars were initially cheap, crappy imitations of American cars, but now have thoroughly dominated the US market. Copying is the fastest path towards dominance.

It has instituted a system to encourage innovation but the flaw with the system is that it pays out on patent registration rather than actually working prototypes. This has encouraged many Chinese to submits patents that will not see the light of day. As a result, what the Chinese are doing now is that they are buying up foreign companies not for the value of those companies but for the technology behind such companies. But even that can only go on for a while without a culture of R&.

They'll be just fine as far as R& goes. Many of the dudes who are developing the nice technology in the US are of Chinese descent. They'll have absolutely no difficulty once they get to that stage.

eku_bear:

Well, if we have to wait until the Nigerian government cleans up its act to get better infrastructure, then we'll never get it.

Investment in infrastructure is heavy. That is why only governments or private sector in very stable economies are responsible for it. Would you invest in a system when you are not sure whether a new govt will honour the committment of previous govts? (Think of Yaradua policies after OBJ)

eku_bear:

Well, China for sure has come out better by tightly aligning their currency to the dollar. Panama and many S. American countries have done well by making the dollar their currency.

China did not peg the Yuan to the Dollar; it simply manipulates its currency. Their is a big difference. China is currently proposing a pool of currencies to serve as world's currency in place of the Dollar. Read more on South American countries that pegged their currency to the dollar; major objective is to fight inflation. It has worked for some and not for others. Besides their economies are dependent on the US economy.

eku_bear:


All the more reason to take the control away from the Nigerian government, if possible.

You cannot take away fiscal responsibility from a government. It is not possible. The job of the government is to balance the various competing needs of the country; private sector can not provide that service.

eku_bear:

So financial crisis in Nigeria => Nigerian government cannot raise loans from say private investors, say a bank in the US? Why? Credit rating of Nigerian FG not completely tied to the strength of the banks, yes? Correlated, but not exactly the same.

No single bank can loan funds to Nigeria; it increases its unsystematic (undiversifiable) risk. Also, there are laws that prevent lending to external countries/companies. I don't understand your comment about credit rating being tied to strenght of banks; do you mean Nigerian banks?

eku_bear:

Not even sure there is enough money from oil sales to fund Nigeria's infrastructure needs. Possibly not even if all of it were spent on this single area. Nigeria needs a lot of investment in this area, more than just the FG can provide.

You must learn to crawl before you can work. There is no need to embark on multiple projects at the same time. Let the Nigerian government deal with the current wastage and corruption first and then focus on immediate projects before thinking about other projects. The US and other western countires did not develop their infrastructure in a few years. They did so over centuries.

eku_bear:

This is not true at all. Given how far China was behind, how on earth could you say that this is the reason? They've been the fastest growing country on earth over the past 20+ years. It will take time for them to ever catch up, if ever.

Japanese cars were initially cheap, crappy imitations of American cars, but now have thoroughly dominated the US market.

China has not been the fastest growing economy in the world for 20 years. Its economy started to grow serious in 1999. It has not even dominated for maybe a year or two. It was the 8th fastest growing economy last year behind countries such as Qatar, Angola, Botswana, Azerbaijan. It is currently 4th this year behind Ghana, Qatar, and Turkmenistan.

Where did you read that Japanese cars were initially cheap imitations of American cars? That is plainly wrong.

eku_bear:

Copying is the fastest path towards dominance.
They'll be just fine as far as R& goes. Many of the dudes who are developing the nice technology in the US are of Chinese descent. They'll have absolutely no difficulty once they get to that stage.

Again that is wrong. How are individuals responsible for R&? Governments and corporations are responsible for R& through funding. If anyone discovers anything, be they chinese, their loyalty is to the sponsor of the R&. So chinese-americans being part of a US company does not mean China gets the benefit.

eku_bear:

This is not true at all. Given how far China was behind, how on earth could you say that this is the reason? They've been the fastest growing country on earth over the past 20+ years. It will take time for them to ever catch up, if ever.

Japanese cars were initially cheap, crappy imitations of American cars, but now have thoroughly dominated the US market. Copying is the fastest path towards dominance.
They'll be just fine as far as R& goes. Many of the dudes who are developing the nice technology in the US are of Chinese descent. They'll have absolutely no difficulty once they get to that stage.

I think you mean't to say "many of the dudes who are working as professional laborers for the real owners of the intellectual property are of Chinese descent"

At the end of the day, they are Americans anyway.

Katsumoto:

Investment in infrastructure is heavy. That is why only governments or private sector in very stable economies are responsible for it. Would you invest in a system when you are not sure whether a new govt will honour the committment of previous govts? (Think of Yaradua policies after OBJ)

I agree on the bolded. But rather than relying on the FG, I'm more interested in seeking private investors from abroad (or locally, if they have sufficient funds). Good examples are the light rail projects occuring in Lagos. Each costs $1 billion. Two of the 7 are underway. Money sourced through international investors.

China did not peg the Yuan to the Dollar; it simply manipulates its currency. Their is a big difference. China is currently proposing a pool of currencies to serve as world's currency in place of the Dollar.

Err, manipulating your currency to be fixed against the dollar has the same effect as pegging, does it not? They've done this for a long time now.

Read more on South American countries that pegged their currency to the dollar; major objective is to fight inflation. It has worked for some and not for others. Besides their economies are dependent on the US economy.

Inflation is one benefit, yes. But FDI growth is another.

You cannot take away fiscal responsibility from a government. It is not possible. The job of the government is to balance the various competing needs of the country; private sector can not provide that service.

Well, you certainly can. The question is, do the benefits outweigh the costs?

No single bank can loan funds to Nigeria; it increases its unsystematic (undiversifiable) risk. Also, there are laws that prevent lending to external countries/companies.

Is this even true? Lekki road is being funded indirectly by a bank in SA and one in Australia, for example. Whether "single bank" or multiple banks, it is possible to do this, and in fact is currently being done. In any case, there are sources of funds, such as private equity.

I don't understand your comment about credit rating being tied to strenght of banks; do you mean Nigerian banks?

The ability of the Nigerian FG to borrow money is not completely correlated to the strength of Nigerian banks, is my assertion. So credit crunch for Nigerian banks doesn't imply limited ability for Nigerian FG to borrow.

You must learn to crawl before you can work. There is no need to embark on multiple projects at the same time. Let the Nigerian government deal with the current wastage and corruption first and then focus on immediate projects before thinking about other projects. The US and other western countires did not develop their infrastructure in a few years. They did so over centuries.

Some did it over centuries. Some like Dubai and Singapore did it in under 50 years.

Katsumoto:

China has not been the fastest growing economy in the world for 20 years. Its economy started to grow serious in 1999. It has not even dominated for maybe a year or two. It was the 8th fastest growing economy last year behind countries such as Qatar, Angola, Botswana, Azerbaijan. It is currently 4th this year behind Ghana, Qatar, and Turkmenistan.

Alright, I should have added the qualifier, "major economy." I thought this was clear from context. Anyway, over the past 20 or 30 years, China has been the fastest growing major economy in the world.

Where did you read that Japanese cars were initially cheap imitations of American cars? That is plainly wrong.

When they first came on the American market, they were viewed as inexpensive, unreliable, and of low quality. Now that are viewed as of high quality, reliability, and overall value. Isn't really something I've read, just the common sentiment of the US consumer over the past few decades.

Again that is wrong. How are individuals responsible for R&? Governments and corporations are responsible for R& through funding. If anyone discovers anything, be they chinese, their loyalty is to the sponsor of the R&.

No, this is wrong. Individuals are the one who perform R&. Governments and corporations certainly fund it, yes. But obviously a talented engineer, scientist etc can easily leave and form his own company. Or be poached by a rival. Or if he has a great idea but no money, find an investor to partner with.

So chinese-americans being part of a US company does not mean China gets the benefit.

Well, it isn't as if they are tied to these companies for life. They can pack up and go after working for a few years or completing their degrees. So China will indeed eventually benefit from sending so many of its citizens abroad.

Kilode?!:

I think you mean't to say "many of the dudes who are working as professional laborers for the real owners of the intellectual property are of Chinese descent"

At the end of the day, they are Americans anyway.

No, this isn't the way to think about it. Say a team comes up with a great design for a microprocessor and patents it. The patent certainly has value, but of even more value is that team of engineers. Since with time and funding, they can improve upon what they've done.

Ultimately, technology and IP is about people with bright ideas, not companies. But obviously people can be moved around. If you strip away the talent from Intel and send it to China, within 5 years China will be able to produce processors as good as Intel.

Regarding your "American" comment, yes, fortunately for us, a lot of them view themselves as Americans  So they'll likely settle here for a while. But a good # of them return to China too.

eku_bear:

No, this isn't the way to think about it. Say a team comes up with a great design for a microprocessor and patents it. The patent certainly has value, but of even more value is that team of engineers. Since with time and funding, they can improve upon what they've done.

Ultimately, technology and IP is about people with bright ideas, not companies. But obviously people can be moved around. If you strip away the talent from Intel and send it to China, within 5 years China will be able to produce processors as good as Intel.

Regarding your "American" comment, yes, fortunately for us, a lot of them view themselves as Americans  So they'll likely settle here for a while. But a good # of them return to China too.

Intel or any of these big American corps are not stupeed. They know how to keep their talents in America, maybe a few outliers or outright chinese tech spies will leave and return back to China. But majority of these folks will remain Americans strengthening that Yankee advantage because they've bought into American ideals and philosophies.

Ok I'll take that third paragraph to mean that we can't count on having you in our corner when the chips are down shey?

What about Odu'a republic? Can we count on your loyalty? 

Kilode?!:

Intel or any of these big American corps are not stupeed. They know how to keep their talents in America, maybe a few outliers or outright chinese tech spies will leave and return back to China. But majority of these folks will remain Americans strengthening that Yankee advantage because they've bought into American ideals and philosophies.

It isn't really "tech spy" that is the issue. It is more your smart engineer who decides he wants to go back home and raise his kids in China, or something. If some Chinese VP or lab head at Intel decides he wants to move to China and start a company, he can do so.

Doing tech stuff isn't impossible or black magic. You go to school, learn about certain things, then start playing around with your own designs, see how well they perform. Really isn't that hard. Of course, there aren't that many countries that have the manpower, educational infrastructure to quickly build a giant. China however is one of them.

Here is a processor company I used to follow a bit back in my nerd days:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmeta

Was based in America. But starting up the equivalent in China shouldn't take more than 50 or so well-trained engineers.

Ok I'll take that second paragraph to mean that we can't count on having you in our corner when the chips are down shey?

What about Odu'a republic? Can we count on your loyalty? 

Lol, I'm loyal to both Yorubaland and the US. Latter has done a lot for me in my life, so I cannot ever forget it. However, Yorubaland will need me more over the foreseeable future a lot more than the US will.

^^ interesting, they once employed Torvald? Anyway I wish the Chinese IP exporter goodluck accessing a market created, controlled and dominated by US philosophies and driven my US media.

Businesses need to pay homage to these people to succeed, they don't just have the money, they are the high priests of the world we live in. It's not too hard to see why china is just a factory for American products and ideas, it will continue to be until they acquire the power to dictate trends and tastes. I think it's called hegemony.

Lol, I'm loyal to both Yorubaland and the US. Latter has done a lot for me in my life, so I cannot ever forget it. However, Yorubaland will need me more over the foreseeable future a lot more than the US will.

Very well then, i'm sure George Washington, Jefferson, Madison and all those folks will be proud of the system they created. Our hope is to jumpstart our own unique system and propagate our ideals, so we can motivate and obtain the eternal allegiance of both our people and foreigners alike.

Nice chatting with you bro! Time to retire for the day.

pix?

or isnt he a public figure/celebrity.

Kilode?!:

^^ interesting, they once employed Torvald? Anyway I wish the Chinese IP exporter goodluck accessing a market created, controlled and dominated by US philosophies and driven my US media.

Businesses need to pay homage to these people to succeed, they don't just have the money, they are the high priests of the world we live in. It's not too hard to see why china is just a factory for American products and ideas, it will continue to be until they acquire the power to dictate trends and tastes. I think it's called hegemony.

This is too abstract, man

Let's talk a bit more concretely. A company like this: http://www.phusion.nl/

Basically was based upon the work of a small # of very good coders (Asian guys based in Europe.) They found an existing area of need, wrote a solution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phusion_Passenger), and have now built a company around it. It is thriving and doing well, a lot of popular websites today use their technology. How is hegemony negatively affects their business?

You can start the same thing anywhere in the world, so long as you have good people.

That is why I keep emphasizing that patents are not the important thing, so much as good people. So long as you can generate new ideas and solve problems that people care about, you can innovate.

Now, does this mean you'll be on the level of a Google, Microsoft, Intel, etc? Probably not. But you can still do pretty well even by conquering certain niches.

This can be done even in Nigeria, with good power supply and faster internet access. No government is going to oppress you and "corrupt" away your business.

Based on this interview, I have decided to support buhariz/bakaare

eku_bear:

This is too abstract, man 

Let's talk a bit more concretely. A company like this: http://www.phusion.nl/

Basically was based upon the work of a small # of very good coders (Asian guys based in Europe.) They found an existing area of need, wrote a solution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phusion_Passenger), and have now built a company around it. It is thriving and doing well, a lot of popular websites today use their technology. How is hegemony negatively affects their business? 

You can start the same thing anywhere in the world, so long as you have good people.

That is why I keep emphasizing that patents are not the important thing, so much as good people. So long as you can generate new ideas and solve problems that people care about, you can innovate.

Now, does this mean you'll be on the level of a Google, Microsoft, Intel, etc? Probably not. But you can still do pretty well even by conquering certain niches.

This can be done even in Nigeria, with good power supply and faster internet access. No government is going to oppress you and "corrupt" away your business.

Since I read this before dozing off, let me attempt a coherent reply;

It is not as abstract as you think; It is not simple either.

The company you posted may not be based in America, but it will probably need to survive in an environment dominated by American companies, American ideals and American systems. I got this copy from the site you posted;--->>  "We provide Ruby & Rails products and services to companies that shape our modern culture" (LOL, I couldn't have put it better my self)

Then site went ahead to display logos of clients like Pixar, Twitter, New York Times and co. See what I mean by hegemony?

Phusion is driven my the needs and wants of Companies/Clients with deep cultural and intellectual allegiance to American values and ideals. They still have to pander to those peoples needs and ideals to be profitable.

I bet you've read about the problem Google had with China when they tried to circumvent the wishes of the Chinese leadership;

When Google was first accused of accommodating the censorship needs of the Chinese communist party, they defended themselves rigorously and claimed they were in control of the situation. Unfortunately they were not. Google eventually protested when the censorship demands of the Chinese Government conflicted with their American idea of freedom and privacy, they even threatened to withdraw. China was not fazed.

Google will have to comply if they want to operate in china. Because in China, Chinese ideals are the dominant ones to a large extent. In this America-crazy world, American ideals are the dominant ones, we all have to comply, until we can put a decent challenge.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/14/world/asia/14beijing.html

My fight is to get us that advantage culturally, at least within our own societies. . .

My point is; Culture matters. The values of the dominant society will always determine where the money will flow to, Until we seize the initiative culturally, we will continue to subject ourselves to the control and hegemony of the dominant society, in this case Western systems and ideals.

I'm now going to bed for real

Phusion is driven my the needs and wants of Companies/Clients with deep cultural and intellectual allegiance to American values and ideals. They still have to pander to those peoples needs and ideals to be profitable.

once a company goes multinational all those 'values' go out the window

in business, its juts a case of when in rome. . .

so many multinationals will blather about transparency etal and spout about their value system. they certainly don't adhere to such values when they are in naija or other third world countries

Completely off topic discussion. Why cant you all start a new thread

Katsumoto, my economist friend agrees almost entirely with your sentiment about how dollarization is not the answer (emailed her a copy of your post.) I stand corrected.

Rest of the stuff regarding innovation I stand by, though.

You guys are digressing fom Lekan Abiola.

The solution to the problem of the declining value of the naira is to denominate our oil sales in Naira.

Completely off topic discussion. Why cant you all start a new thread

abeg help me tell them oh.
i was beginning to wonder back to economics 101. 198? agba ti de. damn.

seanet02:

Completely off topic discussion. Why cant you all start a new thread

You are right, should have started a new thread.

I blame Lekan though, his confusion inspired the digression

if your parents were alive, they would have influenced your selection as well, so you are only feeling a little bit what other regular people see daily. Did you ever went to the stream to fetch water or carried wood on your head. when has age or marriage become a yardstick for deciding who steps down for the other, you are not even a meter far from them, all you guys are same, and for your safety, please note that the river that drowned your beloved parents is still flowing. Better keep away from them.

He moved out of ACN.

One cannot join a party and say what he wants and expect that he MUST get it. No, No and No.

” So I called him (Chief Osoba) and he gave me an appointment and I went to his house. I said, “I came out for this position and they (some members) are telling me that your son is interested in the seat” He said it was true his son was interested. I asked, “What are we going to do now?” He said, “Well you can go for a seat in the House of Assembly or you can wait for an appointment.”

juman:

He moved out of ACN.

One cannot join a party and say what he wants and expect that he MUST get it. No, No and No.

All he asked for was primaries,which shouldn't be too much for a democracy touting party

illusion2:

All he asked for was primaries,which shouldn't be too much for a democracy touting party

Did he get the primaries in CPC which he went to?

How hypocritical of him to complain about lack or primaries in ACN then jump to CPC and pick a ticket without primaries also

dayokanu:

Did he get the primaries in CPC which he went to?

How hypocritical of him to complain about lack or primaries in ACN then jump to CPC and pick a ticket without primaries also

This is a good point.

the lack of internal democracy will ruin these parties.
Even PDP manages to arrange primaries.
Tinubu is worse than Obasonjo.I just wish he and his party are not giving a chance to prove it.
To believe i considered voting for these charlatans!
After wasting my time to register, no better option.
shame on us!!

dayokanu:

Did he get the primaries in CPC which he went to?

How hypocritical of him to complain about lack or primaries in ACN then jump to CPC and pick a ticket without primaries also

If a party doesn't have a candidate for a particular zone/ticket, and had already concluded they will not participate for that zone, and then someone pops up to compete under that party, a lot of times, the party goes ahead to give him a ticket. They won't conduct a primary for a ticket that has only one contender. CPC had no plans to field candidates in the election for that position, just like they aren't in most parts of Nigeria where they aren't established. The defection of Lekan provided them an opportunity and so, they went ahead to list him as he was the only contender under CPC.

Just like how Dayokanu could have gone to contest for the Ekiti Central Senatorial seat under CPC (who won't be fielding a candidate for that position) or whichever state's seat Dayokanu is from. Automatic Ticket . . . .  No contenders.



[size=14pt]DAYOKANU FOR SENATE!!!!![/size]

Mo Loyal sa.
I dey loyal sir.
I stand well well.

dayokanu:

Did he get the primaries in CPC which he went to?

How hypocritical of him to complain about lack or primaries in ACN then jump to CPC and pick a ticket without primaries also

Good point. I asked the same question in a previous post (below)

illusion2:

I wonder if Lekan went through primaries in CPC tho'. How he could join a party and become their representative in on go still smacks of the same (s)election system,he's trying to distance himself from.

Aside from that the guy's ok,except his Talibanic 'gemu'.
Thats why we need to forgrt these 'western style' democracy and develop our own system. We have more senators than the US

What has he got t offer/ Or are we talking about him because of late Bashorum. He should try and learn the rope and start being a man. He seems to still talk like an overfed kid. More serious issues please!

Its hightime people realised ACN is as bad as the PDP they criticise

PDP is big and they have to do primaries, other parties do selections that they have accused the ruling PDP for. those other people left from one party to the other. Acn annoited candidates and twisted people's hand to step down but Lekan is the same with them. why cant we have people that fail in primaries stay with their party to come in next time.

Smart guy. Mind you, he was not kicked out of ACN, he left in protest of the practice of "selection".