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|Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by KnowAll(m): 3:09pm On Feb 24, 2011|
[size=16pt]The reason why I raise this question, is that the Libyans are more than convinced that the Black Soldiers fighting on behalf of Gaddafi are hired hands from Black-Africa, when it is a known fact there are ethnic Blacks in the Southern part of the country. Are this so called white or Arabic Libyans not deliberately stripping these indigenious black people of their right to lay claim and a stake in their country by insinuating that the black soldiers fighting on behalf of Gaddafi are Africans, would this people fear any better with the demise of Gaddafi?[/size]
This week, Libyan blogs addressed several thorny issues including racial discrimination, corruption and the responsibilities and freedom of bloggers
According to Ahmed Bukhari (Taboo), everyone agrees that Libya "is one of the most race-oriented societies. You can ask any girl from the area of Zawriya or any Amazigh girl about that. You may also, if you can, explain to a young "Hamri" man in the south why he can't marry a "free" girl; why a Touareg can't drive a public vehicle in the city of Ghadames; why this or that tribe can't deal at all with this or that tribe; or why the residents of that area are despised by the residents of another."
In his blog, Bukhari suggest that the reader try to "attend the wedding of any black man who's marrying a white woman, or a white man who's marrying a black woman. See for yourself the number of comments and criticisms made by everyone. In reality, these marriages are actually rare. Black Libyan men are doomed to marry black Libyan women."
"As for the other colors, whether white, red, dark-complexioned or even purple, they can marry each other without any notable problems," adds the blogger. "If we look at the issue from another angle, we find that a white woman has the possibility of marrying men of all colors, even black men in rare cases, while the possibility of a black woman marrying a man who isn't black is very small."
Bukhari cites several examples of what he claims is serious racism in his country. "Perhaps one of the harshest incidents that showed black Libyans how they were treated differently were the acts of violence that broke out years ago against Africans in Libya. Because of a certain problem with immigrant Africans, Libyans would hit and assault anyone with black skin, including black Libyans themselves, who were assaulted by mistake. A poor citizen who was attacked had to yell 'I'm Libyan! I'm Libyan!' Just note the absurdity and humiliation that black Libyans were exposed to during that period of time."
As for blogger Ramadan Jarbou, he presents a recipe for reform and eliminating corruption, saying: "There are so many reasons that call for reform, including the spread of corruption, which we can even say has become socially 'acceptable' when poverty worsens, living conditions become difficult and the means to get by become hard to find."
Related ArticlesLoading "In this atmosphere, a new mentality gets established, and we see a willingness to do anything in order to achieve the desired ends," writes Jarbou. "Worse still, those who do this and become important and influential people are received in our modern societies with acceptance and great respect, even though in our recent past they represented examples of corruption and conscienceless behaviour and faced only criticism and disapproval."
"In this case, when corruption prevails and becomes 'acceptable', it will inevitably reach all levels of administration in this country, including the judiciary," writes the blogger. "The judiciary includes good elements and some bad ones as well, and therefore, reform must be introduced to its structure. This is not a difficult task: all we need to do is to review the reputations and behaviors of their members over the years, provided that such a review is done by competent people."
Meanwhile, blogger Fitouri offers the perspective that personal blogs mirror the nature of the blogger's society. "In my opinion, blogging, before being an act lying within the scope of personal freedom where the writer writes whatever he or she wants without restrictions, limitations or conditions other than what his or her conscience dictates, is a diverse work of art that can be high or low, and can also be different from one person to another in content and aim."
"It represents man's regional and Arab identity," writes Fitouri. "The blogger's image, as it appears to the rest of the sisterly Arab countries and the whole world, in terms of writing valuable and distinguished human content … reflects the cultural identity of the blogger's country and expresses the depth of his or her society's culture to the world."
Mohamed EL BAKI (mohamedelbaki) Posted 2010-01-07
All of these acts of discrimination based on skin colour, ethnicity and tribe are inadmissible and intolerable. Seeing this racism, social segregation and any other form of rejecting the "other" in our 21st century is inadmissible and intolerable. This holds true for the whole world, for the Arab-Muslim world, for our Maghreb countries, and particularly for the People’s Socialist Jamihiriya. All human beings are equal in rights and duties as male and female citizens. Within the framework of the Jamahiriya, it is all the more commendable that the Green Charter proclaims equality for all men and woman. Islam condemns racism, segregation and the rejection of others. Let us hope for the complete disappearance of racism and xenophobia and the rejection of others in all of our countries. Let us fight against religious fundamentalism and political and philosophical extremism, which lead to hatred and death. Let us hope that our country will have more democracy, more social justice, more liberty and also peace and harmony among ethnicities. The diversity of our peoples, languages, customs and traditions belong to our family, social and cultural heritage, of which we should be proud. This is the heritage of our ancestors. Don't all of the countries of North Africa — Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco and Mauritania — have a common origin in this diversity? Do they not share centuries of common history? Yes they do! In my opinion, we all have points in common. We have a history and an Arab-Berber-Muslim history! Our destiny is common in the construction and development of a better future for all of our countries. So, stop with the racism and the exclusion of others!
Thair El Heri Posted 2010-01-07
I am afraid at the office there is also predudice against employees from areas outside Tripoli. Focussing on the middle managment of most corporations or organisations based in Tripoli it is extrmely hard to obtain employment or a possition equal to your qualifications particularly if you cme from Benghazi.
zoumhani Posted 2010-01-07
So far, I have not had the privilege to read one of my articles on your website. This is nothing but a waste of time for me with you. -Thanks
سيتيماتيك Posted 2010-01-24
The statement of the blogger Al Boukhari - with my respects to him - is very rare. I have a friend who is Amazigh, married to an Arab Libyan, close to my relatives. He is white and married to a black woman. There are many examples. We have friends of all kinds - praise be to God, we are united by the flag of Islam. The brown, Amazigh and black are our brothers. Peace and mercy of God be upon you.
الهوني الليبي Posted 2010-01-26
Quickly and with all clarity: I'm a pure Libyan who has lived through many generations, as it is said. My statement is succinct but true. Honestly, there is nothing to say about severe racism in Libya. I haven't seen any clear racism in attitudes between people of black skin with regard to their brothers of other races in Libya. There are some, as there are in other societies, but not in the way presented by the brother. I know black people who married white and vice versa. By the way, everyone who belongs to a side thinks that he is rejected by the other side when he lives with them. I see it personally as a psychological condition of the individual. I know many black people. I might prefer talking to one of them rather than someone of my race. Wake up brothers, the sons of my country and other countries. I feel some kind malice by those who promote them. God knows!
ليبية امازيغن Posted 2010-01-28
Salam alikum. What was written by the blogger Ahmed Boukhari is true 100%. Here in Libya, we still endure segregation and racism, which are still deeply-rooted. For example, I am an Amazigh woman. I love an Arab man. We've been together for five years. However, my family rejected him. Now I am 31 and I'm not married. Other people came to marry me, but my family made up pretexts that they were black, of a lower race, or from a different tribe. It's difficult for a black man to marry a white woman unless he makes compromises. When she is older than him, for example, it's if he's rich. There are many young girls and men in my country who endure segregation. But to speak the truth, Libyan society is now gradually developing and is becoming open to all cultures. Praise be to God anyway!
الفزانى Posted 2010-02-01
My dear bloggers, I hope you'll focus on issues which constructively serve society. Don't you see that laws have filled societies and administration? With its power, corruption, anarchy, systematic plundering public funds. Write facts and don't be afraid of fat cats!
ابو الفقر والجوع Posted 2010-02-02
I am a Libyan from the tribe of Beni Welid. My father is from the tribe of Mechachia. I confirm you what brother El Boukhari said that the Libyans are racist by instinct. The black is a friend, but when he comes to marry your sister, you will tell him honestly, "Go, slave of slaves." There are even worse examples; in Zouara for example, the black can't eat with his white master on their occasions. I've witnessed this with my eyes - until the white man finishes eating.
مشار[b]ك Posted 2010-02-09[/b]
These statements are exaggerated. This is not at all true. Quite simply, two of my neighbours are black and married to white women. One of my neighbours, a friend, from a mountainous region, is married to a girl from Tripoli. The brother of a dear friend is black and married to a white girl. Why this exaggeration and injustice? Brother Ahmed, don’t falsify the truth, fear God! We are all Libyans united by the country, we sit, talk and communicate with each other in cafés without any difference between the son of a minister or the son of a guard, the son of the city or the son of a village, a white or a black!
Al saharan Posted 2010-02-17
It is very interested issue. Brothers and sisters, Please allow me to clarify this race issue in libya. I am black and Toubou, on the of minory ethnic group in Libya. For Sure there is segration between the ethnic groups in Libya we all should agree on this. Firsly I disagreed that there is race discrimination in libya comparing to the other part of world. Why? Because everyone who lighter believe that he or she superior the Drak person. I mean everywhere. Secondly the problem we have in libya is ethnic discrimination. Within arab tribe, some people are described as inferior to others arabs tribe. Within Black people some tribes are describes as inferiors. In my city there are: Two types of Arabs Zouwiya well who believes to be superior due to their wealth and numbers of men in the their tribe. others groups arabs are nothing because they are poor and less in number. Two types of Black tribes. Toubou is wealthy black tribe and large is term of family. The second black groups non tribe black descent of slave and still dependent on their ex mater's tribes. This ethnic deseases. It is our gouvenment's responisible to eliminate this evil believes.
abdel Posted 2010-03-22
I am French Tunisian. I am currently crossing Libya as a tourist. I was truly surprised by Libyan racism – even against Tunisians, Egyptians and Algerians. There is a great lack of tolerance.
Sarakhollé Posted 2010-04-28
I have just one question: Are black Libyans Touaregs, Berbers or just indigenous? It was quite amazing that most of them at the Ghadames Festival were black. Not that this bothers me, but honestly, I didn't imagine the presence of blacks in Libya. I want to know who they really are. I hope that the problems with racism will be resolved quickly.
Anonymous Posted 2010-05-02
To Abdel: What were you expecting of a backward country where a tyrant has erased any trace of culture and good manners, since he himself is deprived of them? Did you not see the vulgar behaviour of his arrogant offspring?
Anon Posted 2010-05-28
I am a half Lybian woman from Britain and what this blogger is saying is true 100%. My Fathers rascist attitude towards blacks is nothing short of disgusting and it shames me terribly. I have never even been to explore my roots because this puts me off. It's a shame and what makes me even more angry is that Libyans that have been in this country for 30+ years still have this backwards attitude that the other North Africans do not seem to adopt. I really feel sad about this because my son is half black and I am extreamly proud of that. We are all one.
candy_derna Posted 2010-07-07
Unfortunately racism is widely spread in our country. For example I am from the town of Derna, I notice that young people when choosing a wife, they prefer a white not a black girl although they praise the morals and education of the black.
الريفي Posted 2010-10-07
Praise be to God. Peace and prayer be upon His subjects. Salam.
طلال Posted 2010-11-13
Yes, there is a wide spread racism in Libya especially between the East and West, Black and White, and in the treatment of Libyans to Egyptians and Tunisians and between the ignorant and educated.
اويا Posted 2010-12-02
Salam alikum. Honestly, discrimination exists 100% in Libya. I have an opinion which you might consider racist but I think it is better that a white man marries only a white woman and a black man marries only a black woman or as we say in Fellagui “Everyone takes from his own skin”. Mixing up is an injustice even for kids they will give birth to. I don’t want anyone to say we are in the age of globalization and equality. For me offense is when you insult or oppress someone. This can be considered racist but mixing up races in colour is inacceptable for me. I repeat and reiterate it is an injustice for the mixed up children who don’t know whether they are white or black. Thank you!
Libyan Lady Posted 2011-01-18
All what I can say is that Libyans are brought up to believe in racism /prejudices. East Libya and West Libya; Blacks and whites Amazighs / Berbers and Arab origins. Libyans and other Northern Arab Countries. Prejudice in Libya is a way of living. I know this is sad to say about your own country but I am only saying simple facts of the Libyan reality. Prejudices and racism towards all that is different from oneself. Not to mention against the handicaped, the ill, the not-so-smart (down syndrome) etc. Libyans are living in the dark, they are completely controlled by their fears; fear of whatever is different due to ignorance. Ignorance causes prejudice and racism. Therefore, Libyans are considered ignorant as individuals.
Yolande Posted 3 days ago
Who are the white Libyans and would American whites see them as white; do they think of themselves as European descent? And who are the blacks. Who are the Arabs, Arab-berbers, tourags and toubou in relation to them. I notice that people from North Africa Turkey and even sub-saharan Africa consider any one light complexion white. I am form the caribbean of a mixtrue of African, Scottish and East Indian ancestry. I habve been told by a /Moroccan boyfriend and a Turkish fiance that my mother is white. However in America my mother is considered black. In America you could look as white as ever in complexion or as european as ever (facial features, hair, skin complexion assocaited with this human population), if you have African descent, you are black. It is called the "one drop rule". What people consider black or white is different in different parts of the world. The touareg consider themselves white, in America they would be black. Sudanese arabs would be considered black by ordinary americans, and Egyptians, Libyans,etc would be considered arab and brown, not white, despite some having light skin. Light skin in America does not equal white.some would be even considered black depending on how curly there is and if they did not speak or express where they are from. I for one sometimes is thought of as north african, esp. when I ahve ahead covering while at times I am though of as black or latin american.
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by EzeUche2(m): 3:19pm On Feb 24, 2011|
This disgusting to say the least. These Berbers who consider themselves Arab shows the self-hate they have for Africa.
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by KnowAll(m): 3:24pm On Feb 24, 2011|
This disgusting to say the least. These Berbers who consider themselves Arab shows the self-hate they have for Africa.
The people of Bengahzi are now calling Black African's slaves, I was reading a report about what was going on in Bengazi when members of the public who were interviewed, said they would rout Gaddafi and his slaves if they venture to come into their city. I think after this mayhem in Libya, there might be a very high anti-african sentiment in Libya.
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by Nobody: 3:31pm On Feb 24, 2011|
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by Nobody: 3:33pm On Feb 24, 2011|
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by KnowAll(m): 3:39pm On Feb 24, 2011|
it's not exclusive to libya alone.
At least the so called Arabic Libyans should see some of those soldiers as Libyans instead of generalizing that they are all " Africans", basically they are actually cleansing their society off Blacks when it is a known fact they have indigenious blacks.
Obvioulsy I know there are some black african maceneries amongst their midst that cannot speak Arabic, but the only way u would know their nationality is when u capture them.
Like those Nigerians that spoke french. But how come they have not raised storm over the so called 'white' Algerians, Morroccan and Tunisian who are paid hands too fighting for Gadaffi, is it because the blacks stand out like a sore thumb.
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by Nobody: 3:42pm On Feb 24, 2011|
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by ShangoThor(m): 3:44pm On Feb 24, 2011|
I am so glad this is happening, because it is raising awareness to the issue of Arabic (Asian) imperialism and racism in Africa. Most Africans only think of Europeans when they think imperialism and racism, when the fact is that Arabs had been devastating the African continent and her peoples long before the Europeans arrived, in fact, most Black African Muslims are the agents of their devastation and would not twice about wiping out whole black ‘infidel’ populations on the continent.
It is time for a change to this sleep like condition – Black Africans first – This is the only way that Black Africans will stop ‘crawling’ and start walking ‘tall’. This is more important than ethnic skirmishes or squabbles between us.
1. Black Africans first and the Allegiance to Africa is of paramount importance.
2. Alien religions do not take priority to the Welfare of Black Africans.
3. The Nation State we find ourselves in are more important than the foreign religions we have adopted.
God bless Africa.
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by Nobody: 3:50pm On Feb 24, 2011|
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by Bawss1(m): 3:58pm On Feb 24, 2011|
What does the OP intend to achieve with this thread?
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by ShangoThor(m): 4:00pm On Feb 24, 2011|
The problem lies in the influence they have over Black muslims on the continent and in the South. Black muslims in Northern Nigeria show greater allegiance towards Arabs than Black Africans. Eventually, we either have to take a stand for our survival and the control of our destinies or get subjugated.
If Europeans were resisted regarding ENSLAVEMENT, so should Arabs, otherwise, countries such as Nigeria and the continent at large will continue to be a farce. How can we coexist with polities that believe that we are inferior and only fit for SLAVERY. F*U*C*K that!
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by KnowAll(m): 4:02pm On Feb 24, 2011|
What does the OP intend to achieve with this thread
The thread is educative if anything. Why would one want to wallow in ignorance when one can learn something new everyday until the day one drops dead.
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by Nobody: 4:04pm On Feb 24, 2011|
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by Nobody: 4:04pm On Feb 24, 2011|
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by KnowAll(m): 4:06pm On Feb 24, 2011|
What Shangothor is saying is true.
Black Muslims should see themselves first as Africans b4 any other thing. The Muslim Yoruba man sees himself first as a Yoruba man then every other thing comes second. Our Black brothers up North must also make religion a private thing rather than flouting and lording it over the whole society.
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by ShangoThor(m): 4:21pm On Feb 24, 2011|
Black people, Wake The F*U*C*K up, there are huge black populations in countries like Chad that are completely subjugated, with a SLAVE status.
I asked Aljharem a couple of days ago if he would agree to put Black Africans and Africa before his religion and he said no way.
If the mixed race Africans want to be subjugated to Arabs then that is their prerogative, but they should not be able to drag Black Africans with Free minds with them. Black Africa has to come first, Nigeria will never work because of it. Black African citizens will always be amongst the poorest on earth because of it. Black Africans first, we are the prototype of mankind. We deserve a privileged status, not that of a SLAVE!
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by ekubear1: 4:28pm On Feb 24, 2011|
I guess this thing is a bit more painful since it is happening on Africa. But northern Africa has always oriented either north or towards the middle east, as far as I know. They've never really seen themselves as "African." Certainly no real solidarity with black African countries today.
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by Nobody: 4:32pm On Feb 24, 2011|
The Black soldiers in Libya are mainly Tuareg mercenaries originating from Mali. He first started recruiting them in the early 80's in preparation for a showdown with the Western powers at the time. Most of mercenaries over the years have now become naturalised Libyans. However they owe allegiance to ghaddaffi and would more than likely be persecuted if he loses his grip on power
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by ShangoThor(m): 4:43pm On Feb 24, 2011|
The only way and time Africans will really start to make PROGRESS is when they begin deconstruct the identity that foreigners have forced on us and start to redefine our own identity as the Prototype of mankind, the Source of humanity, and we start to take control, exercise ownership of our own property, consolidate our property in order to get the best deals and assertively espouse our uniqueness as the ‘SOURCE of HUMANITY’. Arabs and Europeans come from us. No foreigners are superior to Black Africans, they have just managed to successfully exploit our differences; the gaps in our knowledge, and ability to effectively organize to date .
We now know the truth, the information is there for all to see! What a pitiful sight, Africans squabbling over peanuts when we should be affluent and fulfilled. Damnnnn
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by KnowAll(m): 4:49pm On Feb 24, 2011|
Mr Moderator please put this topic back in the politics section, although it is foreign it is also political.
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by ShangoThor(m): 4:59pm On Feb 24, 2011|
A very effective way of letting a thread die
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by KnowAll(m): 5:08pm On Feb 24, 2011|
A very effective way of letting a thread die
Why don't they let it go throught the motions and then afterwards they can move it to the foreign section. I am sure a lot of Nigerians would belive that Libya is actually a "white" Arab Country only without them knowing their are indigenious blacks there.
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by Nobody: 5:09pm On Feb 24, 2011|
i think blacks are a minority there.
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by EzeUche2(m): 5:09pm On Feb 24, 2011|
A very effective way indeed. They know the Politics section gets the most traffic, while this section does not get the large amount of traffic.
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by Nobody: 5:14pm On Feb 24, 2011|
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by ekubear1: 5:14pm On Feb 24, 2011|
They'd have best off merging these two forums, no?
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by MandingoII(m): 5:17pm On Feb 24, 2011|
Arabs were/are WORST than whites.
they always have been.
this is a little known FACT.
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by EzeUche2(m): 5:20pm On Feb 24, 2011|
The Arab slave trade was just as bad as the European slave trade.
One of the first African slave revolt happened in Iraq. People should read about the Zanj revolt that occurred near Basra. It took many years to finally subjugate these Africans. And it was quite brutal.
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by KnowAll(m): 5:24pm On Feb 24, 2011|
The moderators would rather leave those boring and riggable election topicsi n the front page of the politics section than proper African Political issues. In Fact my coming to this section made me aware that there are so many intresting threads here that should have been discussed in the Political section but for some reasons they are tucked away probably not to embarass the Nigerian goveremen because of their gross failures.
For Instance the views of Huambo, in Angola I did not see that post until now. Jonathan and his goverment should be ashamed that a city like that can be transformed within the 2 years. Issues like that need to be left in the politics section untill the topic is exhauxted.
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by EzeUche2(m): 7:01pm On Feb 24, 2011|
I enjoy threads such as these instead of the usual tribal mudslinging that hurts the soul.
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by cap28: 3:38am On Feb 25, 2011|
im really enjoying reading through this thread, very interesting posts especially the comments from the arabs at the beginning - time for our people to wake up and understand that we are on our own and we should focus on uniting as black africans and stop deceiving ourselves.
|Re: Are Libyans Ignorant Of Their Own Racial Makeup Or Just Plain Racist by amazonia(m): 8:11pm On Feb 25, 2011|
^^^^ I agree with you 100%
These people historically are located in the mediterania, also called Middle-East, of Asia ,i suppose.
It is important that the[ black] muslims brothas know that the unequal balance
of nurture[ideas,and values] on the one hand,and their natural dispositions[blood] on the other, is partly
if not solemnly responsible for their slacks in achievements in mordern age.
The inventors of knowledges that cummulated to present civilization, had
been almost rendered irrelevant in the cutting edge of knowledges creations,
because of some idealstic values of islamism. Arabic numeral other
higher knowledge base educations were invented by these people before
the advent of Islamism. With a religion[ opium] that require five times devotions a day,
No surprise they have not been able to set or master the pace for scientific inquirings.
A balance of nurture/nature is important. When in doubt, defer to nature(blood), because
it is the default setting by the creator.
Too much nurture leads to automatum(machine). Human zombie.
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