thebosstrevor1:
You have started again with your fake stories.

Nigerian conquered Europe but still are still living in hut when the Europeans arrived.

Europeans themselves lived in huts when they first arrived Nigeria.

Only their aristocracy lived in sturdy houses and palaces.

I don't do "fake stories".

I do African History which you are a complete stranger to.

rossniti:


A poorly trained child who is corrected by his elders regards it as an insult - Igbo Proverb

you are a foolish elder for this statement....


A foolish elder doesn't know the difference between correction and outright insult.


No matter how elder u are, when u insult a toddler, expect to be paid back in ur own coins....



let ur arguments be devoid of insults

illicit:



you are a foolish elder for this statement....


A foolish elder doesn't know the difference between correction and outright insult.


No matter how elder u are, when u insult a toddler, expect to be paid back in ur own coins....



let ur arguments be devoid of insults

I didn't insult you. I simply said you were talking garbage, which you were.

rossniti:


Europeans themselves lived in huts when they first arrived Nigeria.

Only their aristocracy lived in sturdy houses and palaces.

I don't do "fake stories".

I do African History which you are a complete stranger to.

What do you expect? The natives could offer only hut for accommodation to explorers like Livingstone.

but the Europeans still end up bringing European architecture here, who do you think built the first building in Nigeria

rossniti:


Garbage.

Everyone used a horse or horse & carriage in the Middle Ages for travel.

Camels also played a great part in helping to cross the Sahara, for merchants carrying goods.

You clearly never heard about the Trans-Saharan Trade, or Mansa Musa, Emperor of Mali, and the richest man who ever lived, who travelled to Egypt with a caravan of 12,000 people.

MALI isn't interior West Africa, they trade with the Arabs, they are on the trade route.... most people on Musas Entourage were on foot as well, they were porters

thebosstrevor1:


What do you expect? The natives could offer only hut for accommodation to explorers like Livingstone.

but the Europeans still end up bringing European architecture here, who do you think built the first building in Nigeria

You don't understand what I said.

I meant that Europeans were still living in huts IN EUROPE, when they first visited us in Nigeria/West Africa.

Who built the first building in Nigeria?

Errr...Nigerians.

illicit:


MALI isn't interior West Africa, they trade with the Arabs, they are on the trade route.... most people on Musas Entourage were on foot as well, they were porters

Not sure what point you're trying to make here. There is no place known as "interior West Africa". I don't even know what that means, and I've never heard that term used by historians.

rossniti:


Not sure what point you're trying to make here. There is no place known as "interior West Africa".

The Savannah and not the sahel

All these moors are in hell fire now...let's move on abeg..

Vidsolution79:
All these moors are in hell fire now...let's move on abeg..

How do you know where they are?

What a strange submission.

Don't mind the OP. He's fixated in claiming a glorious history for Nigeria that he forgot to face reality. As at the time of the Moor conquest of Southern Europe, most of present day West African kingdoms were still in their infancy. I will only agree partly with him if he claims that the base of our ancestors who may have partook in that conquest was in north Africa. There's certainly no doubt that most West Africans came to this part of Africa from north Africa. To say West Africans came all the way from here pass through North Africa to go conquer southern Europe is a lie. If it were so, they could have replicated that great feats they did in Spain here in West Africa. How come they had no magnificent palaces here in West Africa? Not even old Benin had anything compared to the luxury of the Moors in Europe.
As for the use of horses, I believe when that West Africans who lived in the sahel used both horses and camels just like the north Africans. Whereas deep in the forests of West Africa, the usage of horses fluctuated due to the issue of tsetse flies. Benin Empire had horses just like the Oyos but these horses where prone to sicknesses and died only to be replaced from northern Nigeria where the weather is friendlier to them. In Igbo history especially northern Igboland, the same story of horses were told but they always mentioned that horses were prone to having a short life span. You can corroborate this by checking to see that there's no single horse farms in Southern Nigeria when the European conquest of Nigeria started. That horses appeared in Benin bronze castings doesn't mean it was a regular occurrence among the Bini people. The climate didn't allow the sustenance of using horses to the fullest. In the late 1800s, only Ilorin was noted to having a cavalry closest to southern Nigeria.
My whole point is that the Moors might have had some of her men from those that formed present day Nigeria but one can't claim that it was West Africans that did the conquest for the reasons I explained above. If it was West Africans, they could have replicated something similar in their home lands in West Africa. The greatests cities mentioned in West African history is Timbuktu and Benin City. Non of them had anything as grand as what the Moors achieved. The missing link is North Africa.

illicit:



The Savannah and not the sahel

Do you have any clue how large these empires were? There were parts of all the great three empires - Ghana, Mali, and Songhai, that were firmly in savannah terrain. Check them out on Google images. Heck, parts of northern Nigeria seemed to have been within the Songhai Empire territory!

Aconomist:
The moors where not Nigerian. This nonsense is created by people who are ashamed of their real identity as indigenous West Africans so they latch onto other civilization. It's pathetic and poisonous.

But civilization thought us that there were nomadic movement of people in groups, especially the fulanis from futa jallon. The OP’s concept/ideology maybe not totally out of place. Just for researchers to put one or two things together.

rossniti:


How do you know where they are?

What a strange submission.

You don't need a prophet to tell u jare..

rossniti:


Do you have any clue how large these empires were? There were parts of all the great three empires - Ghana, Mali, and Songhai, that were firmly in savannah terrain. Check them out on Google images. Heck, parts of northern Nigeria seemed to have been within the Songhai Empire territory!

I don't dispute these old empires though


They are defunct now and the countries bearing such names now just do it for posterity sake....

My argument is that interior West africans were domiciled here, we hardly venture out, even if we had horses, it's mainly for warfare or prestige and not exploration of transportation like the Europeans....


for example, we were told that Oranmiyan set out on a punitive expedition against the tivs or so.... when he got to river Niger he turned back because he couldn't cross the river.... that told you that we were a primitive race, no means of transportation to go far.... Europeans had boats and ships at this time in question....


How many miles can a horse go self....


Europeans that colonised Africa didn't come on horses, they came in ships....

We had no means of going that long distance that's my point

Yujin:
Don't mind the OP. He's fixated in claiming a glorious history for Nigeria that he forgot to face reality. As at the time of the Moor conquest of Southern Europe, most of present day West African kingdoms were still in their infancy. I will only agree partly with him if he claims that the base of our ancestors who may have partook in that conquest was in north Africa. There's certainly no doubt that most West Africans came to this part of Africa from north Africa. To say West Africans came all the way from here pass through North Africa to go conquer southern Europe is a lie. If it were so, they could have replicated that great feats they did in Spain here in West Africa. How come they had no magnificent palaces here in West Africa? Not even old Benin had anything compared to the luxury of the Moors in Europe.

Dude, West African topography meant there were no stone quarries in abundance, and people had to build with clay, unlike in Europe where stone was everywhere and even villagers could quarry stone to build their cottages, never mind monarchs and their palaces.

Also, the lands of Europe where generally wealthier potentially in the Middle Ages because of the centrality of Europe in international commerce. The mercantile trade routes from China, Arabia, Persia, Africa, India et al, all passed through the Mediterranean. There was far greater opportunity to develop Europe than was the case with geographically isolated Africa south of the Sahara.

As for the use of horses, I believe when that West Africans who lived in the sahel used both horses and camels just like the north Africans. Whereas deep in the forests of West Africa, the usage of horses fluctuated due to the issue of tsetse flies. Benin Empire had horses just like the Oyos but these horses where prone to sicknesses and died only to be replaced from northern Nigeria where the weather is friendlier to them. In Igbo history especially northern Igboland, the same story of horses were told but they always mentioned that horses were prone to having a short life span. You can corroborate this by checking to see that there's no single horse farms in Southern Nigeria when the European conquest of Nigeria started. That horses appeared in Benin bronze castings doesn't mean it was a regular occurrence among the Bini people.

The Benin, Oyo, and Igbo nobility or whom we may refer to today as middle classes, used horses to get around. The horses were expensive for ordinary people, but you could probably say the same about north Africa and Europe at the time.

The climate didn't allow the sustenance of using horses to the fullest.

Horses were used ''to the fullest'', whatever that means. They were just expensive for the commoners. The big boys rode around in horses throughout West Africa.

In the late 1800s, only Ilorin was noted to having a cavalry closest to southern Nigeria.

By the late 1800s, West Africa had been decimated by the slave trade, and so the way of life of the people had undergone severe retrogression.

My whole point is that the Moors might have had some of her men from those that formed present day Nigeria but one can't claim that it was West Africans that did the conquest for the reasons I explained above. If it was West Africans, they could have replicated something similar in their home lands in West Africa. The greatest cities mentioned in West African history is Timbuktu and Benin City. Non of them had anything as grand as what the Moors achieved. The missing link is North Africa.

Nahh...The missing link was NOT North Africa, but West African topography and lack of resources vis-a-vis Europe, geographical isolation, and later on, the slave trade. The Moors did not invade Europe from Egypt or Nubia, but from much further south, ie Mauritania, Morocco etc, which were all black regions prior to the much later invasions by the Almoravids and Berbers.

rossniti:


You don't understand what I said.

I meant that Europeans were still living in huts IN EUROPE, when they first visited us in Nigeria/West Africa.

Who built the first building in Nigeria?

Errr...Nigerians.

You don't know history.

In 1920 there were already big cities and superb architecture in Europe. That same time Africans were still living in huts and running naked.

I don't want to talk about America where skyscrapers were numerous in newyork during that same period.

rossniti:


Do you have any clue how large these empires were? There were parts of all the great three empires - Ghana, Mali, and Songhai, that were firmly in savannah terrain. Check them out on Google images. Heck, parts of northern Nigeria seemed to have been within the Songhai Empire territory!

No part of Nigeria was under the Songhai empire. Hausaland did trade with the empire though.

illicit:



I don't dispute these old empires though


They are defunct now and the countries bearing such names now just do it for posterity sake....

My argument is that interior West africans were domiciled here, we hardly venture out, even if we had horses, it's mainly for warfare and not exploration of transportation like the Europeans....


for example, we were told that Oranmiyan set out on a punitive expedition against the tivs or so.... when he got to river Niger he turned back because he couldn't cross the river.... that told you that we were a primitive race, no means of transportation to go far.... Europeans had boats and ships at this time in question....


How many miles can a horse go self....


Europeans that colonised Africa didn't come on horses, they came in ships....

We had no means of going that long distance that's my point

West Africans built seafaring ships that sailed all the way to the Americas, and this is documented.

Christopher Colombus, who supposedly discovered the Americas, reported that he saw ''men from Guinee'' with gold tipped spears among the natives of Mexico.

BBC news has a report on the history of West African seafaring, especially on the famous trip by a Malian emperor which set sail for the Americas from present day GAMBIA:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1068950.stm

Yujin:

No part of Nigeria was under the Songhai empire. Hausaland did trade with the empire though.

Wrong sir



https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/517773288385126588/

This map strongly suggests to me that some Nigerians were among the Moors who conquered southern Europe.

The real surprise would be if none were among the thousands of black troops who headed to Europe to take over.

rossniti:


West Africans built seafaring ships that sailed all the way to the Americas, and this is documented.

Christopher Colombus, who supposedly discovered the Americas, reported that he saw ''men from Guinee'' with gold tipped spears among the natives of Mexico.

BBC news has a report on the history of West African seafaring, especially on the famous trip by a Malian emperor which set sail for the Americas from present day GAMBIA:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1068950.stm

The same Columbus that thought he was in India


He was just guessing....


Have we suddenly lost knowledge of how to make these same ships now


Even ilaje people in riverine Ondo state don't make ships, they make boats.... till now

illicit:




The same Columbus that thought he was in India


He was just guessing....


Have we suddenly lost knowledge of how to make these same ships now


Even ilaje people in riverine Ondo state don't make ships, they make boats.... till now

I'm not sure how advanced the Yorubas were in ship buiIding for sea faring. But evidence suggests that West Africans in places like modern-day Senegal and Gambia, built seafaring vessels that could hold over 400 men, and contained sleeping quarters, kitchens, rooms etc.

Columbus was not ''guessing'' when he saw the Africans in America. I've no idea where you got that from.

The many Olmec heads - stone artefacts with clear West African features found all over Mexico, also indicate that Africans landed there, and were highly regarded by the natives.

Olmec Heads, Mexico

[quote author=rossniti post=97118048]

that's why I said that interior West Africans don't travel far....



The Yorubas as a case study

thebosstrevor1:


You don't know history.

In 1920 there were already big cities and superb architecture in Europe. That same time Africans were still living in huts and running naked.

I don't want to talk about America where skyscrapers were numerous in newyork during that same period.

1920?

Was it in 1920 that Europeans first visited Africa? You said Africans lived in huts when Europeans first came. But so also did Europeans in Europe. And they first came to West Africa in the 14th century, not 1920.

rossniti:


1920?

Was it in 1920 that Europeans first visited Africa? You said Africans lived in huts when Europeans first came. But so also did Europeans in Europe. And they first came to West Africa in the 14th century, not 1920.

Even in the 14th century they had advanced technology, how did they locate Africa if they didn't have compass and strong ships for long journeys.

If you can build a ship for long journeys to Africa, you can not be living in a hut.

[quote author=illicit post=97118523][/quote]

Interior Europeans didn't travel far either. Sea travel in medieval times only occurred when a powerful, wealthy, centralized empire was geographically close to the ocean over centuries, long enough to develop a seafaring tradition. In West Africa, that was the Mali Empire, Ghana Empire, etc. The southern Nigerian coastline was not the site of mighty empires, but rather, autonomous villages and clans, and so no oceanic travels known to us occurred from there.

thebosstrevor1:


Even in the 14th century they had advanced technology, how did they locate Africa if they didn't have compass and strong ships for long journeys.

If you can build a ship for long journeys to Africa, you can not be living in a hut.

But Africans were sailing to the Americas in the 14th century and earlier. See Olmec heads above etc. Does that mean no Africans lived in huts at the time?

Your reasoning makes no sense. That Europeans sailed to Africa in the 14th century doesn't mean all, or even most Europeans of the period lived in stone mansions.

The vast majority of Europeans were illiterate hut-dwelling rural peasants, right up to the early 19th century. It was their rich monarchs who funded the expeditions by their 'explorers', to seek wealth and trade/conquest opportunities in faraway lands.

The big problem of history in Africa is getting facts about indigenous Africans. most tribes occupying lands in west Africa today are not indigenous to the place, we do not really have facts about how they lived and how advanced they were.

Since we depend on outsiders ( Europeans) to tell our stories, the roman's expedition to black Africa shows that they encountered a black civilization in the sahara called the Garamantes, they were sophisticated that they mined desert sub surface water for their general usage, this really mesmerized the romans because they thought they were people with inferior lifestyles.

During the peak of Carthage, business men from there came to west Africa to pick slaves, but unfortunately we do not know the lifestyle of those people living in west Africa at that time.

I think most of the moors were mixture of blacks and few Berbers, they are not really Arabs like that and by the way, there were some black civilization that existed in the heart of Europe , the Saracens were pure blacks and they once lived on present day European soil, some black kings ruled in area of modern day Syria.

jagorinho:
The big problem of history in Africa is getting facts about indigenous Africans. most tribes occupying lands in west Africa today are not indigenous to the place, we do not really have facts about how they lived and how advanced they were.

Since we depend on outsiders ( Europeans) to tell our stories, the roman's expedition to black Africa shows that they encountered a black civilization in the sahara called the Garamantes, they were sophisticated that they mined desert sub surface water for their general usage, this really mesmerized the romans because they thought they were people with inferior lifestyles.

During the peak of Carthage, business men from there came to west Africa to pick slaves, but unfortunately we do not know the lifestyle of those people living in west Africa at that time.

I think most of the moors were mixture of blacks and few Berbers, they are not really Arabs like that and by the way, there were some black civilization that existed in the heart of Europe , the Saracens were pure blacks and they once lived on present day European soil, some black kings ruled in area of modern day Syria.

Great points. But the original Berbers were black. Their language has been traced to Kenya.

thebosstrevor1:


Moor are arabs.

Persian empire is Iran, irans are not black but middle easterners. So your so called king Casper is fake.

Moors are native North Africans not Arab but I do agree that this thread is bullshit