abdkabir:

I have resolved to make no further comments.

Islam has been a blessing to me and i'm happy to be a believer. Islam has taught me not to discriminate by tribe or ethnic background and thats why i follow it. If Islam had taught racial discrimination, i wouldn't have followed it.

Your religion to you and Mine to me.

Ma'Salam.

I wont be making comments too if only those islamic barbarians would stop drawing us back to the stone age with their incessant resorting to "outrage".

@abdkabir,

abdkabir:

I have resolved to make no further comments.

Islam has been a blessing to me and i'm happy to be a believer. Islam has taught me not to discriminate by tribe or ethnic background and thats why i follow it. If Islam had taught racial discrimination, i wouldn't have followed it.

Your religion to you and Mine to me.

Ma'Salam.

Islam actually teaches racial discrimination; only you haven't seen the relevant references.

Cheers and enjoy.

stimulus:

@abdkabir,

Islam actually teaches racial discrimination; only you haven't seen the relevant references.

Cheers and enjoy.

Wasn't it Mo that compared blacks to satan and called them raisin heads.
Abdkabir you need to read more.

well see what allah said.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/comics/01.htm

thanks Babyosisi what an excellent site!

:oFROM WHJERE TO WHERE?

@babyosisi

You keep pressing the button . Long Time and how u doing.

If only u knew the people Allah was talking about in that verse. Once again, the importance of understanding the context of revelation. The verse was about some jews who trangressed in the issue of the sabbath and thus were changed to monkeys.With fairness, islam didn't discriminate against blacks. You should know there was a black Man (Bilal) among the companions of the prophet.

abdkabir:

If only u knew the people Allah was talking about in that verse. Once again, the importance of understanding the context of revelation. The verse was about some jews who trangressed in the issue of the sabbath and thus were changed to monkeys.With fairness, islam didn't discriminate against blacks. You should know there was a black Man (Bilal) among the companions of the prophet.

Once again the hadith specifically mentions that mohammed refered to ETHIOPIANS and not just some Jews who disobeyed the sabath! By the way, what has allah got to do with the sabath and the jews? Was the sabath allah's law?

"I heard the Apostle say: ‘Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!' He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks, Allah sent down concerning him: ‘To those who annoy the Prophet there is a painful doom." [9] "Gabriel came to Muhammad and said, ‘If a black man comes to you his heart is more gross than a donkey's.'" ~Ishaq 243

"Ham [Africans] begat all those who are black and curly-haired, while Japheth [Turks] begat all those who are full-faced with small eyes, and Shem [Arabs] begat everyone who is handsome of face with beautiful hair. Noah prayed that the hair of Ham's descendants would not grow beyond their ears, and that whenever his descendants met Shem's, the latter would enslave them." ~Tabari II:21

yes,they are the same

Davidylan

Davidylan

You are generalizing usinig a cartoon that is clearly defamatory and if true, a particular case and not a general accusation of ethiopians.MUhammedhad a very very close relationship with ethiopia in his time. U shld know Ethiopia served as a haven for the early Muslims in their early days of struggle and they had mch regard for the ethiopian though they were christians.

<sup>Volume 2, Book 23, Number 412:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle informed about the news of the death of An-Najash (King of Ethiopia) on the day he expired. He said, "Ask Allah's forgiveness for your brother. " Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet made them align in rows at the Musalla and said four Takbir.</sup>


I am certain the people being talked about are the Jews as i'm quite conversant with the verse.It appears you didnt take a look at th following image. You don't have to go this far to slander Islam.

From Abdkabir:

If only u knew the people Allah was talking about in that verse. Once again, the importance of understanding the context of revelation. The verse was about some jews who trangressed in the issue of the sabbath and thus were changed to monkeys.With fairness, islam didn't discriminate against blacks. You should know there was a black Man (Bilal) among the companions of the prophet

@Abdkabir,
You know, it is not really compulsory to respond to certain issues if your response or attempt to defend Islam or Muhammed will only confirm the accusation. This is what you've just done here. I don't mean to cause offense or be demeaning here, but I have long concluded that one cannot be a muslim and think with his brain at the same time. One must give way.
Now silly Mo was accused of being a racist because he demeaned blacks; but in defence, you said he was not referring to blacks but only to "some jews"! Isn't that silly! Now whether they were black people, 'some' or all jews, chinese, mullato or whatever, what kind of god will command his prophet to 'compare black people to satan'?; and that "if a black man comes to you, his heart is more gross than a donkey's." From a supposed angel of god, right?
Is that the same God who said in the Bible that 'whether jews or greeks, male or female, slave or freeborn,etc we are all one in God through faith in Jesus Christ.'(?) Definitely not the same God and definitely not an angel of the living God.
We know silly Mo was an epileptic and also thought to be demon possesed. It is Shaitan, the master of the idols called allah, who talks to silly Mo through the fallen angels called nephillim. Never has this world seen a more insane and perveted prophet than muhammed; and his followers are keeping his dream alive.

Now rather than say to you that 'your religion to you and mine to me', I will say to you that the God of all mercies will shine the light of the goodnews of true salvation into your life and remove the darkness imposed on you muslims by the god of this world, in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen!

Oga @abdkabir,

How body? It's interesting to see that you're trying ever so hard to defend these issues which have been resoundingly laid to rest. The problem here is that you seem to be a moderate Muslim (or a liberal one at that) who hasn't taken the time to really look at the big picture.

Muhammad's career as a prophet cannot be defended in light of the overwhelming textual evidence in Islam's holy books.

Enjoy.

Hi @batu,

Although I'm quite busy, I couldn't help but make a quick response to some issues you intoned in your rejoinder just above. There are persuasions in yours that I'd agree with; however, here's the line of concern to me:

batu:

Now whether they were black people, 'some' or all jews, chinese, mullato or whatever, what kind of god will command his prophet to 'compare black people to satan'?; and that "if a black man comes to you, his heart is more gross than a donkey's." From a supposed angel of god, right?

While many of us (myself included, unfortunately) sometimes take a default position in decrying Islam as a pseudo-religion claiming credulity from the Biblical God, I think one has to be objective in doing so. There are similar constructs in the Bible (even in the NT) where people have been compared to many things, (whether animals, rivers, floods, seas, etc) that even Muslims could counter-argue in like many to question "what kind of God" Christians worship. Let me remind you of a few such examples:

Ezek. 23:20
'For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.'

Job 11:12
'For vain man would be wise, though man be born like a wild ass's colt.'

Jer 5:8
'They were as fed horses in the morning: every one neighed after his neighbour's wife.'

Matt. 7:6
'Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.'

Matt. 15:26
'But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.'

It is not hard to read all these texts in their contexts and see that people are being compared to these animals. I may be a very odd Christian; but then, please understand that my style of debating issues with people (whether atheists, Muslims, or fellow Christians) is to be as objective as I can possibly be; and not rather assume that just about everything is wrong with a system that I don't belong to.

However, the point in the Bible comparing people to all of the above and several others, can be deduced from the passages in which they appear. There is always a reason as to WHY we read of people being spoken of in such manner - and in most cases, it is in reference to their sin and rebellion (as in Jer. 5:8; Phil. 3:2 and Rev. 22:15). In other instances, reference is made to the strength, agility, and grace of appearance in the people described (Song of Solomon 1:9 - "I have compared thee, O my love, to a company of horses in Pharaoh's chariots".

The reason why (for me, at least) Muhammad's comparing people to animals and other things would be untenable, is partly due to what you have expressed concern over, and even more - the racism and denunciation of non-Muslims.

Let us even for a minute assume that the prophet of Islam had any substance to his statements as such; one would have to ask, "What crime did Jews and Ethiopians commit for them to be so labelled as Muhammad did unto them?" Where is the sin of the Jews (and the Ethiopians) that would have merited Muhammad's denunciation and racist speech against them?

Unfortunately, there was none. Even Muslim apologists who look for every excuse to euphemise Muhammad's denunciation cannot find ONE text in the Qur'an or Hadith to fully substantiate their apologetics in this regard.

Bottomline: Muhammad's denunciation is without substance; and only goes to confirm that he was racist to the core. Not many people would know this; but any Muslim inviting a debate can be assured that I could provide numerous texts for this persuasion from both the Qur'an and Hadith.

Cheers.

Quote from Stimulus:

It is not hard to read all these texts in their contexts and see that people are being compared to these animals. I may be a very odd Christian; but then, please understand that my style of debating issues with people (whether atheists, Muslims, or fellow Christians) is to be as objective as I can possibly be,,,,,

My Dear Stimulating Stimulus;
Far from it!! You are NOT a odd christian or person at all. You are indeed an objective individual 'as you can' possibly be. That is the point of having our senses, after all God said in Isaiah "Come and let us reason together,,,,,,"

Now if we look at all the passages you've quoted from the bible in which "people are compared to many things," you will see that there is none of them in which the comparism was because of their "race or ethnicity, gender etc"; but rather because of certain attitudes, behaviour or as a test of faith.
You and I agree this is different from a prophet who claims "Jews" are monkeys; or that "women" have half a brain and are possessions like donkeys; or that satan looks like a "black man"; or that the heart of a "blackman" is as gross as a donkey. You can see that all these comparism are on the basis of unchangeable attributes; rather than on opinion or attitude. I therefore wonder what kind of god will say through his prophet that his creation is like a donkey, or like satan etc.
I am sure you see the difference now between the false gods and prophet in the Quran, and the God who looked at ALL his creations and said in Genesis that "It is very good"!!
Bless you, bro!!

@batu,

batu:

Quote from Stimulus:
My Dear Stimulating Stimulus;
Far from it!! You are NOT a odd christian or person at all. You are indeed an objective individual 'as you can' possibly be. That is the point of having our senses, after all God said in Isaiah "Come and let us reason together,,,,,,"

Phew!! Well, that makes my day, bro! Na because some people dey twist my ears so painfully that's why.

batu:

Now if we look at all the passages you've quoted from the bible in which "people are compared to many things," you will see that there is none of them in which the comparism was because of their "race or ethnicity, gender etc"; but rather because of certain attitudes, behaviour or as a test of faith.

Precisely my point, and you're dead on spot.

batu:

You and I agree this is different from a prophet who claims "Jews" are monkeys; or that "women" have half a brain and are possessions like donkeys; or that satan looks like a "black man"; or that the heart of a "blackman" is as gross as a donkey. You can see that all these comparism are on the basis of unchangeable attributes; rather than on opinion or attitude. I therefore wonder what kind of god will say through his prophet that his creation is like a donkey, or like satan etc.

You know, batu. . . when I read such lines in reference to Muhammad's "scientific" religion, I wonder if women still have "half" brains or half intelligences in comparison to men. Any wonder why most Muslim men today who continue to follow the "Islamic way" of Muhammad would rather have their daughters uneducated. . . and prepare her for the harem among 71 one other virgins in paradise??

batu:

I am sure you see the difference now between the false gods and prophet in the Quran, and the God who looked at ALL his creations and said in Genesis that "It is very good"!!
Bless you, bro!!

No, no, no. . . hehe I rather think if we follow Mo's recommendations (even without the "scientific" Muslim apologists), then we can "see" the difference. Did I confuse you?? Okay, let me re-state that -

In the Bible, God made man. . . and then declared 'It was very good!'

In Islam (Qur'an and Hadith combined), "Allah" made men and women so that he can fill hell with them!! "And surely, We have created many of the jinns and mankind for Hell. (Qur'an, Sura 7:179); ". . . but the Word from Me will come true, "I will fill Hell with Jinns and men all together." (Qur'an, Sura 32:13).

Again, with "Allah", everyone of the men he 'created' has a jinn (devil) attache - Sahih Muslim, #6757.

See the difference now?? Ol' boy, I tire to explain issues for our celebrated babs787!!

@batu

Silence would have been adequate for your comment but then your passively offensive statement requires a response.At times,salient an gradual accusations could be worse than outright violence. You don't have to be stupid to be Muslim. Everyone rants about Islamic violence while many a people here continue to ridicule and by inference latently inflict some kind of pain and anger to those who are Muslims. I refuse to be bullied by your abusive words. You don't have to call muhammend silly or infer muslims don't use their brain to proof your point. You shldn't accuse a man until you clearify what he/she meant to say.What feeling do u expect a muslim to have after going through the series of latent ridiculing.


I certainly didn't mean to infer Muhammad by refering to some jews in that context discriminated against them. All i intended to infer by thats tatement was that , yes Muhammed talked about a people (could have been any peope jew, arab or whatever) who transgressd on a commandment of God and were punished. Same way Muhammed talked baout old Arab Nation like the (Thamud people) who also transgressed on other issues and were punished. Yes Muhammed probably compared black man to satan same way he said Bilal (a black man) would have entered paradise before him. Same way he extremely praised the Negus (King of Abysinnia Ethiopia) before and after his death.

I hope and pray, one day when the circumstanca and environment allows it, we get to appreciate and celebrate more of the goods thing believers have in common than the continuous finger pointing on Islam.I for one have concluded that Religion or Ethnic disparity won't be a basis for repulsing my people.

Regards and God Bless.

@abdkabir,

Apologies for my late response; but here it is, even between my busy schedule.

I actually have cause for concerns about your view and convictions in Islam. Not disavowing your yearnings for understand and balance in approaching issues discussed, nonetheless it is deeply worrying that you keep euphemizing the obviously concrete facts of the questions being raised here.

abdkabir:

I certainly didn't mean to infer Muhammad by refering to some jews in that context discriminated against them. All i intended to infer by thats tatement was that , yes Muhammed talked about a people (could have been any peope jew, arab or whatever) who transgressd on a commandment of God and were punished.

Your explanatory lines in parenthesis circumvents the concrete argument that Muhammad meant none other people group than the JEWS. They are the only ones in the Qur'an known to have been given the law of the Sabbath; and in that connection, Muhammad made the following pronouncements against them concerning apes, swines and pigs --

Sura 2:63 -65
And remember We took your covenant and We raised above you (The towering height) of Mount (Sinai) :
(Saying): "Hold firmly to what We have given you and bring (ever) to remembrance what is therein:
Perchance ye may fear Allah." But ye turned back thereafter: Had it not been for the Grace and Mercy of
Allah to you, ye had surely been among the lost. And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed
in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."
(or, Pickthall tr.: 'how We said unto them: Be ye apes, despised and hated!').

Sura 7:166 - When in their insolence they transgressed (all) prohibitions, We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."

There is no other people group (not even Arabs) meant by the denouncement with apes other than the Jews.

abdkabir:

Same way Muhammed talked baout old Arab Nation like the (Thamud people) who also transgressed on other issues and were punished. Yes Muhammed probably compared black man to satan same way he said Bilal (a black man) would have entered paradise before him. Same way he extremely praised the Negus (King of Abysinnia Ethiopia) before and after his death.

We all know Muhammad was very political in whatever he engaged in - praising people as long as it suited his purposes; denouncing them and pronouncing wars against them when he found them rejecting him. This is the case with particular reference to the Jews and Christians; as well in some other instances. There is no gainsaying the fact already argued, that Muhammad's hatred against the Jews in particular is obvious to all - and that confirms his racist ideology and career.

Cheerio.

abdukadir please what is your opinion on the school teacher killed by primary school pupils and the other religious violence experienced

also can any hausa christian please confirm who allah is?

and finally let us appreciate the internet for enabling a forum for pple to express their opinion without fear. can you imagine what havoc the islamites would have wreaked if this was said through any other means

@initiate

The killing of the Christian Teacher is definately uncalled for and should be condemned.Religious & ethnic violence in NIgeria should be discouraged and seriously contained. Allah is the Arabic denomination of the One Supreme Being which is refered to as God in English.

@stimulus
Simply put, Your way to you and mine to me. As i noted in previous posts, Muhammed was not discriminatory on the basis of race rather he condemened transgressors and evil doers be they Jews, Arabs, Christians or Muslims. There are verses of the Quran which corrrobrate this.If you had read the post preceding my last post, you would have noticed that my suggesting "Muhammed could have criticised anyone" was not to hide the fact some jews were the ones being accussed in the issue of the Sabath. The previous post was a response to batu who posited that the persons being refered to were [b]Ethiopians.[/b]

So you see, there's nothing to Hide. Quran spoke against the Jews, Christians, Arabs et al when it considered their action was not right just as the Quran spoke well of the Jews, Chritians , Arabs when there actions were in line with God.

Apparently, you have concluded on the Muhammed and do not appear to want assess issues objectively nor fairly. Thus it would be better you be on your way and i hold on to Mine.

Ma'Salam

abdkabir, go and join the handshaking thread. All religious "debates" are hereby suspended. 
The only thing i can do is pray that God will open your eyes.

I wish you the Same.

B4 Starting off with the hand shaking thread there are some thing i'ii like to shed more ligh on:

I Shall be reproducing here the true and complete version of the hadithes(Using the Sahi Bukhari and Muslim) some people have used in accusing Islam by copying them out of contexts.
Source:

From the Book 11 (On issue of the call to prayer):



<sup>For those who posit accusative comparisms/analogies were used against Jew,christian etc, here is a case against muslim in prayer This analogies were used for the sole aim of depicting the evil in doing the acts of violation being done simple.

Volume 1, Book 11, Number 660:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "Isn't he who raises his head before the Imam afraid that Allah may transform his head into that of a donkey or his figure (face) into that of a donkey?"


in this Hadith, a slave(Black, Jew or whetever) lead the prayers in Quba soley because he knew the Quran more than the others
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/b]Volume 1, Book 11, Number 661:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

When the earliest emigrants came to Al-'Usba a place in Quba', before the arrival of the Prophet- Salim, the slave of Abu Hudhaifa, who knew the Qur'an more than the others used to lead them in prayer.

[b]
This is the famous hadith which i obsvere has been quoted unfairly out of context, I would understand this hadith to mean Listen to your leader even if such a leader has was an aborigene from wherever

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Volume 1, Book 11, Number 662:
Narrated Anas:

The Prophet said, "Listen and obey (your chief) even if an Ethiopian whose head is like a raisin were made your chief."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Volume 1, Book 11, Number 663:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "If the Imam leads the prayer correctly then he and you will receive the rewards but if he makes a mistake (in the prayer) then you will receive the reward for the prayer and the sin will be his."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Volume 1, Book 11, Number 664:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:

The Prophet said to Abu-Dhar, "Listen and obey (your chief) even if he is an Ethiopian with a head like a raisin."</sup>

@topic,

Can Muslims please oblige me an answer to this question already featured in another thread:

If Christians refer to Jesus as God, are they then worshipping a false god?

All i know is that Allah is the best name we can call the most high who created the heaven and earth

why are all these muslim apologists coming with two two posts?
are they advertising these threads in the neighborhood mosques?

bir:

All i know is that Allah is the best name we can call the most high who created the heaven and earth

says who?arabs don colonise you,you beta wake up from your slumber.

who are u deceieving ? no be me oooo! allah and God, u 4 say Jesus and SAnjo similar 2, oni ra nu, kolomentalist , judgment day dey come, keep posting ur sh^t ok ,

God of the Bible and Allah of the Koran are not the same.

simple. . .

@babyosisi.

u feel confident that you are saying the right thing. u are just as ignorant and a crappie ass fool as the rest of you guys. if you don't understand Islam maybe next time you should have a better understanding before coming to this topic to share false information about Muslims. seriously if you say all this crazy ass things about Islam in the mideast your ass is busted .

people will alway talk about Islam, and those of us in the religion are feeling the presence of God. if you do not like Islam keep your comment to yourself becos no body cares. becos everybody is guilty as charge. and there are worst people in other religion.
@babyosisi she is just a freak!!!!!!!!