@ Ajisafe:   that the southwest of Sweden was being refered to

Many thanks for that typo: yes, I meant "referred." And like I said, if you've now left off the main topic in order to occupy yourself with trivial stuff, there'll be no end in sight. We all make mistakes, and the wise will be humble enough to learn; and if you can't acknowledge that, it leaves me wondering what sense you make in your high sounding "intelligence" that leads nowhere.

   @ Ajisafe: You want to teach me how to spell? You must be out of your mind!,,,Were you ever thought about ,,,

You may think me out of my mind, but should that not have been "were you ever taught about,,," instead of "thought"? Or was that another kufar mistake on your part?

   @ Ajisafe:   Your so-called "English alphabets" did not originate in England.

I don't see the connection or where I ever said the English alphabet originated in England, unless you deliberately wanted to misread that into my thread. I'm disappointed that you failed to craft a meaningful discussion with regards to the topic, and have instead taken to this pet mischief of twisting language, especially where you know very little about it.

God and Allah: Are they the same?

I think this is the topic,
what are we talking about now? maturity
A word they say.

Hnd-holder:

God and Allah: Are they the same?
I think this is the topic,

I think I made that clear in my post (see below), and I'll be happy to see Ajisafe return to the topic.

choice.A:

,,,if you've now left off the main topic in order to occupy yourself with trivial stuff,,,,I'm disappointed that you failed to craft a meaningful discussion with regards to the topic,

Then fire the first shot. Getdown to work. You are great

Well, thanks,,,and I throwey salute to U too.

I've got to run along for evening fellowship right now, then I'll be back to post something. In anycase, I don't believe that the Allah of Islam is the same as the God in Christianity. I'm taught to respect the faiths and ideologies of others, but not to syncretize them. Hope you've had a good Sunday

Well, to my understanding, God and Allah are the same thing, the only different there is the language and they way people understand it, some said allah sound like god.

Phonic:

Well, to my understanding, God and Allah are the same thing, the only different there is the language and they way people understand it, some said allah sound like god.

The question is not about what name you call 'God' in your or any language. Arabs (whether Muslims or Christians) call Him 'Allah', Swedes call Him 'Gud', the French call Him 'Dieu'; in German He is called 'Gott', and in Spanish He is 'Dios.' If it was merely a question of language, you could well have over 2,000 names for God in the more than 2,700 languages of the world.

But the question is about the identities of the deities in both faiths: Is the Allah of Islam the same as the God worshipped in Christianity? Or, to put it another way: Is the 'God' of the Islamic faith the very same as the 'God' of the Christian faith? In addition to previous threads, there are reasons why some of us would not agree that they are the same:

1. Muslims never call God "Father" in the Qur'an because they do not confess that Jesus Christ is the Son of God as the Bible states - "And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God." (John 6:69). Notice that in the Bible, God was in fact acknowledging Jesus Christ as His own Son, but in the Qur'an, Allah does not recognise Jesus as His Son:
   Bible - "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." (Matt. 3:17)
  Qur'an - "The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God,,,far be It from His glory that He should have a son," (4:171)

2. Christians are called by God to love everyone regardless of race, beliefs and gender; but in the Qur'an, Allah stipulates that Muslims should go all out to kill Christians and Jews:
    Bible - "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you" (Matt. 5:44).
    Qur'an - "So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them" (4:89).

3. Many times in the Bible, the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ was promised as the basis for the redemption of man - even Jesus Himself knew beforehand that He would be put to death and would rise from the dead. However, the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is one fundamental tenet that the Qur'an denies:
    Bible - " "For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day" (Mark 9:31).
    Qur'an - "And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them;,,,they slew him not for certain." (4:157)

Now, my question is: If Allah in Islam is the same God in Christianity, why does He say two different things in the Qur'an and the Bible? There is only one rational answer to that: regardless what you call them in any language, they are simply NOT the same 'God.'

4gt_m.

4get_me, I strongly agreed with you but, the fact is that, people do not understand what they are takingas resolution, for you to kill some one who do not believe with your faith, that means if your mother one day turn to be a christian, you will still kill him, but when you see muslims making noise out there they will tell you that their religion is that of peacefullness not violence, how come every religious fight in the country they are the one to start it first, God said that the battle is mine (for him), that we should not fight for him, so how can one stand and said that you want to fight for your God, one who creates you, one who is stronger than you. That is selfishness anyway,

4get me has really opened my eyes to some very interesting facts,i always thought that we all worshipped the same God but with these recent findings i can strongly say that God and Allah are not the same and i seriuosly condemn the koran for saying that Christians should be killed.

You see, that is one of important of this forum, it helps to enlighten you on what is happen, without this, how can you know that Koran instructed muslim to kill christains, can you see that, there is a great difference between muslim religion and christain religion. Well with this I can say nairaland forum is doing a greet job for those of us who do not have time to look at all those differences.

Phonic and dredlux,
May god show u the rght way of guidence because,
the Qu'ran strongly invites muslims to love other religions especially the ones with holy books i.e:christianity and judaism.
i would strongly like that u send the real evidence of such disrespectful lies that point that islam is a religion of crime! if ths is not possible i hope that u 2 stop spreading these rumors.

Islam i have a question for you to answer and many more regarding mohammend and islam

click here to see the question i asked about islam
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-3856.0.html#msg227760

ok, ask and i will try my best

if u would pls look in the link u will find my answer

phonic, here is a verse in the holy quran about not killing ppl without a reason:

Whether open or secret; take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus doth He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.

http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/6.htm (no. 151)

I have found my bible to contain answers to life's questions.

Can a lion begin to claim that it is not in his nature to be carnivorous?

Genesis 16
8And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai.

9And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.

10And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.

11And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.

  12And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren


It was all forseen by God.

No hard feelings please,

It is what i see in my book of prophecy.

donnie:

Can a lion begin to claim that it is not in his nature to be carnivorous?

Genesis 16
  12And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren

It was all forseen by God.

So, wait a minute: are you trying to say that Islam was spoken of in the Bible? Not many Christians would agree with you, nor would you find intellectual Muslims agreeing with anyone saying that Islam is found in the Bible. The fact that Ishmael was spoken of in Genesis should not tempt you to assume that God was referring to Islam there or anywhere else. God spoke of Ishmael concerning his nature (or character) as a person - not concerning his religion.

Let me ask you: if Islam was what God was prophecsying or speaking about in Gen.16:12, then consider the following:

(a) why would God have had to allow Abraham to send Haggai and Ishmael away? (Gen.21:12-13).

(b) was Islam prophesied by God as a religion to rise after Christianity had been established by the Son of God? If this is the view taken, does that not suppose that you might be saying the covenant of Jesus' blood did not establish an everlasting redemption, and therefore there was a need for a new religion to emerge?

(c) if still, God was ever speaking of Islam in Genesis, what would be the rational for allowing His Son  Jesus Christ to be crucified in order to provide redemption for man, and then turn around and bring in a violent religion?

I believe God could not have been contradicting Himself in the Bible; and to say that Islam was spoken of in Genesis is exactly the sort of propaganda some Muslims are looking for. If Islam is violent in nature (and there are more than one Qur'anic verses to persuade one about that), it does not mean that its violent nature derives from the Bible. Nowhere would you find Islam prophesied in the Bible.

You do not make me understand clearly what you want to know.

First and foremost. I do not intend to take you on a lecture on the Abrahamic covenant so i'd advice you do a study on that covenant and how we as chrsitians partake of the Abrahamic covenant.

Secondly, get in touch with a muslim and ask him to trace their origin from father Abraham.

Before i leave i will like to correct the impression you are giving that the passage i quoted implied that God established Islam either above or after Christianity.

For the covenant that God made with Araham was to him and his seed after him. The bible also tells us that that seed is Christ.

Now Isaac, who was the seed of Abraham according to the flesh, was the beneficiary of the Abrahamic blessing and not Ishmael. For he was the child of promise even though Abraham in his lack of full undersatnding of God's plan went into Haggai who bore Ishmael.

That however did not change God's plan of Having a Son born of Sarah to be heir of the Promise. For God hath said to Abraham, "In Isaac shall thy seed be called."

"Can a lion begin to claim that it is not in his nature to be carnivorous?"

Donnie,

when you wrote that line above, what were you trying to say? And when you subscripted your writeup with "It was all forseen by God", were you not relating it to Islam? My point is that informed Muslims will tell you that the verse did not speak of Islam, but the character of Ishmael as a person.

Second, I do not take my definition of any religion from the mouth of passers-by. I have contacts with many informed Muslims and they vehemently deny that Islam is in the Bible (which is what I believe). They do not deny the connection with Ishmael and Abraham, but they don't see your quote of Gen.16:12 as indicative of Islam. Infact, someone (a pastor) I spoke with recently about that verse asked me to study my own Bible (!) because God was not describing the religion Islam there. You're making a huge mistake by misinterpreting that verse as pointing to the violent nature of Islam; because if you believe Islam is in the Bible, you will need several other verses to show that Islam is in the Bible. Why? Because, the rule for understanding a prophecy is not to look at just one verse and interpret it on its own! The apostle Peter said: "no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation" (II Pet. 1:20); so you would need to bring more verses in the Bible to show that your interpretation of Gen.16:12 stands.

As for the Abrahamic covenant, you make me laugh! You supposed you had found a pupil for your next Sunday school enrolment. I knew about all those subjects before you came up to needlessly paste your poor scholarship. You'd not need to take it personally, but if I failed to understand your point in the Gen.16 quote, I offer my apologies upfront and appeal that in future, you make some sense than floating replies.

I'll agree with all those who say that Allah = God from a language point of view but would definitely tow the line of the Muslims who have posted their opinion so far that Allah is certainly not the god who has a son.

Someone made an asertion earlier in the post claiming Muslims were converting in droves (my own interpretation) to Christianity. I would like such a person to provide empirical data to back himself up.

Ajisafe,
Salam Alaykum my brother. I would advice you to read the following verse of the Qur'an and endeavour to make your posts following its teachings and dictates. Qur'an 16 Vs 125.

Understandably one can really get provoked and may tend to be carried away. However in the heat of anger pple often times would have their sense of reasoning befogged by emotions.

Peace.

Choice A,

When God blesses it goes down even unto the generations yet to come. It is the same thing when He curses.

When God blessed Abraham, was it for him alone or for all those which were to be born after him?

Of course the blessing was for all his children/seed.

How is Jesus the seed of Abraham and of David?

That is the way God deals with men as seen in several prtions or scripture.

A proper understanding of the book of beginnings(Genesis) will throw light into several dark areas of life.

donnie,

Thank you for your explanations. However, you did not make a connection or answer my query as to the meaning of your first and last lines in your earlier reply: "Can a lion begin to claim that it is not in his nature to be carnivorous?" and "It was all forseen by God." The way you put it by making reference to Gen.16:12 seems that you were convinced that the verse was speaking of Islam. I'd appreciate an explanation to clear the air for me.

Thank U again.

Just like the children if Isreal are decendants of Abraham(according to the flesh) through Isaac, the child of Promise; so the church today are the decendants of Abraham through Christ who is the actual seed of Abraham and therefore heirs of the Promises that God made to Abraham.

However, Muslims do not agree with this fact, arguing that Ishmael and not Isaac was the rightful heir of the Abrahamic covenant and therefore, the rightful heir of the Blessings that God gave to Abraham and his seed after him (beause he was first born). They therefore claim that they are decendants of Ishmael.

But history tell us that God has been with the people of Isreal, defeating their enemies before them. Even to this day, the promise of God to Isreal remains he will redeem his people  at the seond coming of our Lord.

Yes according to Muslim understanding of faith and God, Abraham was Muslim. It means that he was perfect example of how Muslim should be.

donnie,

Thanx for your response, but something is suspect here. For one, your input does not seem to follow the topic of this thread - "Allah and God: Are they the Same?" Are we discussing Islam and Christianity now, rather than the distinction between 'Allah' and 'God'?

Second, I did not see that your original response was in answer to someone's input or query about who was the rightful heir of Abraham according to the promise of God. As far as I can gather, the only direct post one could relate yours to is Islam's inference that Allah does not sanction taking one's life in open or in secret. In which case, your response immediately following that would be seen as countering Islam's inference by your quoting in bold Gen.16:12. Ishmael's being a 'wild man' connects directly to the thought of the religion of Islam being violent ("he will be a wild man". Speaking of which, it would have been in our good interest for you to open another thread to pursue that discourse. Neither does your recent post have any bearing on your adage in the earlier post that "Can a lion begin to claim that it is not in his nature to be carnivorous?" So, how should I interpret or understand your use of the clause "it is not in his nature to be carnivorous"?

On the whole, Muslims claim to trace their Islamic roots to Abraham through Ishmael. But again, I still don't think that Gen.16:12 was speaking about the religion Islam.

Well, that is all in your own opinion.

I am not in anyway confused by that scripture , or its relevance to this topic or the assertion of Islam being in support of violence. I am not.

Nobody accuses you of any of that. Pull your kite if you get confused midway.

Where Did Allah Come From?

by Robert A. Morey
© 1996 Research and Education Foundation

Muslims worship a god by the name of Allah. They also give him ninety-nine other names. The question that naturally arises is who or what is this Allah? Where did the Muslims derive their ideas of Allah's nature and attributes?

Historical Source of Islam
Historians, linguists, and archeologists have dug into this question for over a century. Various archeological digs in Arabia and throughout the Middle East have uncovered the answer: Islam is a modern version of the ancient fertility religion of the moon god. Once this is grasped, the rise and history of Islam becomes clear.

The Arab conquests were made possible because the central powers in the Middle East had exhausted themselves in wars against each other. They were not able to fight off wave after wave of Arab armies which subdued entire nations with merciless slaughter, rape and plunder.

Conquering Armies

The Arabs destroyed some of the wonders of the ancient world such as the world famous library in Alexandria, Egypt, They destroyed many ancient churches and synagogues. Anthropologists have recorded how the Arabs destroyed the cultural heritage of any nation which fell under their sword.

Who were these Arabs? They obviously were not Christians because they destroyed churches and murdered priests wherever they went. Obviously, they were not Jews because they persecuted Jews without pity. This is seen today in their hatred of Israel and the many wars and acts of terrorism waged against Jews throughout the world.

If the Arab hordes which swept over the ancient world were not Christians or Jews, then what were they? They were pagans who worshipped a pagan god called Allah and followed pagan rites which were practiced in Arabia long before the religion of Islam evolved.

Islam Denies the Trinity

These facts of history reveal that Islam does not worship the same God worshipped by Christians. Why?

Christians worship one God in three persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. But Islam denies the Holy Trinity and worships a different deity called Allah who is not a Father and who has no son.

Since the religion found in the Bible teaches the Trinity, then it does not take a Ph.D. to see that Islam did not come from the Bible. Thus it is not the religion of the biblical prophets, apostles or Jesus.

Pagan Origins

Islam's origins have been traced back by scholars to the ancient fertility religion of the worship of the moon god which was always the dominant religion of Arabia. The moon god was worshipped by praying toward Mecca several times a day, making an annual pilgrimage to the Kabah which was a temple of the moon god, running around the Kabah seven times, caressing an idol of a black stone set in the wall of the Kabah, running between two hills, making animal sacrifices, gathering on Fridays for prayers, giving alms to the poor, etc, These were pagan rites practiced by the Arabs long before Muhammad was born.

The Crescent Moon

What religion today practices the pagan rites of the moon god? Islam! This explains why the crescent moon is the symbol of Islam. It is placed on top of mosques and minarets and displayed on hats, flags, rugs, amulets and even jewelry. Every time you see the Muslim symbol of a crescent moon, you are seeing the ancient symbol of the moon god.

Denial Not a Refuge

Does the average Muslim know that he is worshipping a moon god? No. Does he know why the crescent moon symbol sits on top of his mosque? No. Is he shocked and perhaps angered at these facts of history? Yes. But can mere denial or angry threats refute the fact that Islam is nothing more than a modern version of the ancient religion of the moon god Allah? No. The average Muslim has been kept in the dark by the Mullahs and Imams who would lose their power if the truth ever got out.

source = http://www.chick.com/information/religions/islam/allah.asp?wpc=allah.asp&wpp=a

   Have u guys noticed that this Thread is filled with men,

charlisco


link=topic=682.msg257914#msg257914 date=1143542625:

Denial Not a Refuge

Does the average Muslim know that he is worshipping a moon god? No. Does he know why the crescent moon symbol sits on top of his mosque? No. Is he shocked and perhaps angered at these facts of history? Yes. But can mere denial or angry threats refute the fact that Islam is nothing more than a modern version of the ancient religion of the moon god Allah? No. The average Muslim has been kept in the dark by the Mullahs and Imams who would lose their power if the truth ever got out.

source = http://www.chick.com/information/religions/islam/allah.asp?wpc=allah.asp&wpp=a

I heard also that christianity - Christmas to be precise also originated from a Sun worshipping festival i.e 24th dec,

Anyway my argument is that only God knows where all these religions originated from.

Thank you madam.

I wander why we all cant just worship our own prefered GOD and allow others to worship theres. God knows his own so lets all chill out and let it be.