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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? (5241 Views)
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Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by joyandfaith: 11:09am On Jan 20, 2022 |
Quiny32323:Spot on!! |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by MangekyoAlt: 11:10am On Jan 20, 2022 |
Quiny32323:I don't read from only one source. I'm not you. I read books, watch commentaries and observe debates. Red army had a peace Treaty with Japan? Now you've started talking shit. Japan attacked red army even before ww2. They've been attacking China and other countries too years even before Hitler took over power in Germany. The only country that red army had peace pact with was Germany. Before red army attacked Berlin, Stalin had a secret meeting with Churchill, and Roosevelt. The president of USA & BRITAIN. He promised them that after he has dealt with Hitler, within 90 days, he would attack Japan too. After he won against Hitler, exactly 90days,he attacked Japan Before this, USA had bombed hishorima and Nagasaki but the Japanese were still willing to fight on. They wanted to negotiate with Stalin not to attack them but Stalin refused. Immediately Stalin attacked, they surrendered to USA immediately because Stalin would've ended up annexing all the lands his troops enter in Japan. Let me give you a few links to enlighten yourself. Note, these were written by Americans: https://www.indepthnews.net/index.php/opinion/3758-soviet-advance-not-u-s-atomic-bombings-forced-japan-to-surrender https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the-bomb-didnt-beat-japan-stalin-did/ See how many troops Stalin attacked Japan with. It's on Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Manchuria 3 Likes |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by MangekyoAlt: 11:12am On Jan 20, 2022 |
Quiny32323: 3 Likes
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Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by MangekyoAlt: 11:28am On Jan 20, 2022 |
Idiko1:Who exerted these "pressures" from the western front? Stop talking trash! The soviet union had more man powers, better artillery and obviously better thanks than the Germans. The t-34 was arguably the best tank in the war. It gave the Germans so much headache that they had to go create tanks specifically to counter it. They created the Stug III, tiger, and king tiger. Soviet union still upgraded the t-34 to t-34/85 and it meant game over for them automatically. While the blitzkrieg was very effective in the early stage of the war, the Soviets soon managed to create doctrines that were used to counter it. You guys just love overrating the west. France was far far better than the Germans on paper in fact France was the most powerful country in Europe then, but they were defeated within a month. Britain was bombarded from the air and the only thing that saved them is because it's an island. They couldn't move their ground troops to Britain and Hitler underestimated them too. Otherwise Britain would've been defeated like France. 1 Like |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by tutudesz: 11:44am On Jan 20, 2022 |
MangekyoAlt:Soviet won because of allied troops simple. Nazis were never scared of Soviet, because they occupied 80% of their lands. D-Day success was the turning point in the war, Nazis started withdrawing troops from Soviet front to fight allied forces and that gave the Soviet troops the chance to recapture and advance. So allied forces played a major role, even Soviet Union never denied that. https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/big-three
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Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by MangekyoAlt: 11:51am On Jan 20, 2022 |
tutudesz:I'm sorry but you sound stupid. Soviet had turned the tide of the war even before USA entered the war. D-day? Now don't be retařded. D-day was a battle that took place in France to liberate them from the Nazis that had garrisoned there. How does that relate to soldiers in USSR? USSR singlehandedly beat the 3million troops, (infantry alone) that attacked them, and chased them all the way back to Berlin liberating ukraine, Poland and others on the way. 2 Likes |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by tutudesz: 11:54am On Jan 20, 2022 |
MangekyoAlt:I guess you never heard of the big 3 before https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/big-three Guy throwing insults will not change history, so grow up |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by MangekyoAlt: 11:55am On Jan 20, 2022 |
tutudesz: You're a fool. A big one. Soviets had beaten them back to Germany. They had 3milliin, not even tanking mechanised units ready for the last assault. Allied forces brought troops to occupy the other part of the germany only when the Germans had been had on their balls by the soviet yet you believe they're the reason why they won. If you believe that, then you should also believe that Japan's defeat was because of the soviet union. Since Japan only agreed to surrender after USSR attacked them with 1.5million minus mechanised units. If you agree to this, then I'll agree with the nonsense you put up there 2 Likes |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by tutudesz: 12:00pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
MangekyoAlt:Japan surrender after America dropped the second bomb and not because of Soviet
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Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by MangekyoAlt: 12:03pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
tutudesz:You seriously need to learn how to read, not just that but also to know how to comprehend what you read. The big 3 alliance was only formed in 1944, well past after USSR had chased Nazis out of USSR, and even Poland. This alliance was cemented after the meeting, it is in that meeting that Stalin agreed to join them in their war against Japan. Also, Japan and Germany were allies. Japan and Germany never fought side to side through out the war. While USSR and USA became allies in the closing stage of the war, they only fraught as a joint team after the Soviets had beaten the Nazis back to Germany and weakened them all by themselves. All what USA did was clear out the troops in some Eastern Germany, Britain too western Germany, while USSR took southern Germany and Berlin where most of the Nazi troops were because they wanted to protect their capital 2 Likes |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by maestroferddi: 12:05pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
MangekyoAlt:It is trite that Berlin was severely straffed before the land takeover of the Red Army.... You can't be debating a basic fact of the closing stages of the Second World War.... It is there in every reliable history book. |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by MangekyoAlt: 12:10pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
tutudesz: Japan did not surrender after USA dropped the bomb. God arguing with you is just making me annoyed. You're so dumb. After USA bombed Japan, Japan told USA that they would only surrender if their president would be allowed to keep his position as president but USA said either unconditional surrender or nothing. Japan was still fighting on. Soviet union then attacked Japan from the north. Japan immediately surrendered after that because they knew Stalin would annex the all the lands he manages to conquer in Japan and that is why they surrendered. You're just reading Wikipedia and debating me go read some actual history book you dumb fűck. https://www.indepthnews.net/index.php/opinion/3758-soviet-advance-not-u-s-atomic-bombings-forced-japan-to-surrender 2 Likes |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by tutudesz: 12:11pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
MangekyoAlt:So Soviet troops single handly defeated Nazis Were the allied forces fighting Germany Yes or No |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by tutudesz: 12:14pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
MangekyoAlt:Guy stop embarrassing yourself online, the main reason was to avoid a third bomb https://www.carnegiecouncil.org/education/008/expertclips/010
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Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by MangekyoAlt: 12:14pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
maestroferddi:No, Berlin wasnt staffed. It was other parts of Germany. Allied troops DIDN'T reach Berlin before the red army. Taking Berlin wasn't a joint operation between the USSR, Britain and USA. It was only USSR that attacked, conquered and took Berlin. If truly allied troops had been attacking Berlin before red army got there, there's noway they would've allowed red army to just March in a take over what they didn't rightfully conquer 2 Likes |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by MangekyoAlt: 12:17pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
tutudesz:Your answer is even in this screenshot you just dropped Lmao do you even know how to read? Or you're just a dumb ass? Im done replying you for real 3 Likes
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Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by maestroferddi: 12:21pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
Gadafii:Hitler lost the war basically because he opened he took on two vast theatres almost at the same time. If he had limited himself to the Western Front, he could have overwhelmed the French and the British eventually ... But his greed and irrational overconfidence led him to open the Eastern Front to assuage his hatred for Stalin and the vastness of the USSR... His troops, resources and even the formidable Luftwaffe were eventually over-stretched... The Russians got their intelligence right...The armament and other important industries key to the war effort were moved away from outlying parts of European Russia deep into the Russian heartland... The Nazi would take cities only to realise they have been deserted. The Russian inhospitable climate also broke the spirit and morale of the German soldiers. Hitler should have respected the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact or the pact he had with Stalin... He could then have dealt with the Russian question after defeating the West but alas! he repeated mistakes made by Napolean Bonaparte over a century previously... 1 Like |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by maestroferddi: 12:23pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
MangekyoAlt:Just read this na ... No need arguing over factual things accessible via every history book worth its place on a bookshelf. |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by tutudesz: 12:24pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
MangekyoAlt:Guy stop fooling yourself read what happen step by step Soviet attacked came 1st, before the dropping of the second bomb https://www.history.com/.amp/this-day-in-history/japan-surrenders
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Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by MangekyoAlt: 12:26pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
maestroferddi:While I'm arguing with you, I still stand to be corrected. I've read so many history books and im willing to read the one you read that told you that allied forces had been fighting in "Berlin" and not "eastern and western Germany". May I have the name and author? 3 Likes |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by maestroferddi: 12:29pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
MangekyoAlt:In addition, you should understand that Stalin outsmarted Churchill and Roosevelt in the wartime negotiations, pacts and treaties. He argued that Russia bore the brunt of the Nazi war machine and there should seize Berlin... The two other men somehow acquisced.... They are still being criticized by their citizens for allowing Stalin outfox them even to this day .. |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by boyfrank: 12:34pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
Russia would have been speaking German,if not for USA's lend lease program. Even the Red Army rations were MREs from the US. Don't allow anti American sentiments make u appear dull 2 Likes |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by maestroferddi: 12:37pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
MangekyoAlt:Just read up the battle of Berlin on Wikipedia here ... Straffing is air bombardment.... Infact, the degree of air borne demolition was so severe that the Western powers especially Britain were utterly criticized for damaging Berlin in retaliation for the Luftwaffe campaign in London. The Red Army met the least resistance in the conquest of Berlin:Prior to the entry into the city, the morale of the remaining German soldiers sank to an all-time low because the city had literally been pulverized by Allied air power. |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by MangekyoAlt: 12:43pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
tutudesz:You're jumping from one site to another just to prove your point. You've referred me to more than 4 sites now after I've debunked you on almost all of them. This would be my last reply to you and I hope it's enlightens you. The site you quoted for me last didn't go into details. On August 8, USSR declared war on Japan. On August 9, USA dropped nuclear bomb on Nagasaki. But they didn't surrender after that, as its written on that site. On 12 August, user attacked Japan (after declaring war on 8th). They attacked from 3 positions, simultaneously. After the attack, on 14 August, Japan surrendered. Their surrender was 5 days after the bombing of Nagasaki and 2 days after the attack by the red army. This should explain exactly who caused them to surrender except you're just dumb. BTW, the way you're going about from website to website, it is obvious you've not even touched any book on ww2. Maybe you just hate reading. Let me give you link that would cover everything in just a few paragraphs. It contains declassified documents too. https://blog.nationalarchives.gov.uk/soviet-japan-and-the-termination-of-the-second-world-war/ Go read and enlighten yourself 4 Likes |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by MangekyoAlt: 12:48pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
maestroferddi: Here it is https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin No such thing happened like that I'm sorry. But don't feel bad. I know of the battle you're talking about. I've read about it before. It is the bombing of dresden, not Berlin. I hope you correct yourself 3 Likes |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by tutudesz: 12:51pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
MangekyoAlt:I know you are a Red Army Fan boy, but you can't change history. |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by maestroferddi: 1:05pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
MangekyoAlt:Ogbeni read up the Allied bombing of Berlin especially the RAF here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Berlin_in_World_War_II |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by MangekyoAlt: 1:12pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
maestroferddi:Great but still irrelevant. The Soviets delivered a payload that was greater than those of the allied forces (USA, Britain, and France combined). 2 Likes
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Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by maestroferddi: 1:24pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
MangekyoAlt:Like seriously, are you not wasting my time? I am not in competition with you on who pastes the highest number of reference websites.... Just accept that your attempt at misinformation has been rightfully shot down... Encirclement pertains to ground warfare and as I have earlier stated, the Red Army met an emasculated or weakened army which was easy to defeat... Get your bearings right.... 2 Likes |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by MangekyoAlt: 1:38pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
maestroferddi:The allied forces attacking Berlin didn't make it any easier for the red army. According to the link you dropped, they had been carrying out raids on Berlin from 1941 to 1945 yet soviet artillery dropped tonnage that exceeded those that the allied dropped in Berlin in 4 years in just one day. Whether the allied forces attacked or not, Soviet union had them by their balls already and if you actually believe the end would've been different, like the soviet wouldn't have won had the allied not carried out those air bombardment, then I don't see how someone like you wouldn't also believe that soviet attacking Japan made it alot easier for them to surrender to the USA. If somehow you believe the red army played a part in Japanese surrender, then I see no reason why I shouldn't agree with you that allied forces played a part in Germany surrender to the soviet. It's as simple as that 4 Likes |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by obaaderemi: 1:41pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
Mangekyo:You are overrating Stalin. GEneral Tito of Yugoslavia defied him and nothing happened. He didn't antagonize the west or they would have moved against him. |
Re: Would The West Have Expanded Towards Russia If This Man Was Still Alive? by neuf(m): 2:43pm On Jan 20, 2022 |
Detuner: now tell us how Russia defeated Italy and Japan too. Or how they were able to manufacture the machineries needed to turn the tides.. Oh! least I forgot... Hitler's Navy and the infamous U-boats, please also include that in your summary of how USSR fought all the war and the West just came to take pictures and smile. See who is shouting propaganda up and down.. don't go and do proper research so you can heal yourself |
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