sammhi:

Guess Nigeria is the only country in the world producing crude
Even at low oil prices , we were paying subsidy to reduce cost of fuel because we are importing it .
So it means that's not the solution

All the countries that pay subsides don't like paying them

Iran pays subsides, AND refines fuel at home...and because they pay subsidies, government does not have enough cash to do more things.

Infact, they are running budget deficits, then there is the US sanctions on top

Venezuela pays subsides, and sells fuel at N40. Result...they lose 18 billion dollars annually to smuggling, and their refining capacity went down drastically...to the point that they import.

What do you mean where the money will come from

You shall see...

Where did Dangote got money to build his ?

3 BILLION dollars of his own money, plus over 6 billion dollars in loans from local and international COMMERCIAL banks, and the AFDB. (And yes, they have to be paid back. This isn't IMF or world bank loans!)

And where is Buhari getting money to building of rails which have little impact on our economy ? And worse these rails can't even pay back the loans?

The people who use the railways ain't complaining, plus the rail projects commenced when PDP was in power...and no, it is not a bad idea. Transporting thousands of people and cargo as well saves money, and reduces pressure on our roads.

We need railways. This has nothing to do with politics.

And yes, he got loans which were specifically for the railways, not for anything else...and the loans predate his admin in some instances (Kaduna-Abuja was complete by 2014).

If Buhari had use the loans to build 3-4 refineries , we won't be in this mess.
They promise in 2015 to build one refinery per year for the first 4 years ...so they knew building of refineries is the solution to perpetual fuel shortage and wasting of scarce Forex ..but didn't do it because they benefit from fuel importation
Building refineries will create jobs and have mulitplier effect on job creation , unemployment and inflation
It will boost our economy significantly..such that Government can even afford to do more
Removing subsidy when you dont have local refineries is just a disaster
When that's done there is hyperinflation and Government soon find that they too will have no money as coat of governance will tripple eroding the money you intend to save ..it's a vicious cycle.

Well, the thing is

1.If we took loans to build refineries, it is a given the loans would be paid back. Meaning that, we have to sell fuel at a profit from the refineries, meaning that subsidy on the fuel means losses.

2.Refienreis take time to build.

3.And again, they have to sell fuel at a profit. Domestic refining does not mean cheap fuel...as seen in Niger for example, where fuel costs N350...despite making profits from exports.

4.Building the refinery chops money...meaning that at some point, more loans need to be taken (see Dangote, who had to borrow more to add to the money he already got for his refinery)

Again
The figures by NnPC that we consume 80-90milkion litres is false and totally exaggerated...6 years ago under aGEJ it was 40 m how did it double within 5_6years

[/quote]

1.Rising population....after all expecting our populaiton to be the same as it was 7 years ago is riddiculous. Rising populaiton=more needs.

2.Smuggling. Fuel costs N163 HERE, and it costs N300 and above elsewhere. Anyone can make enough of a profit smuggling fuel, and even bribe customs easily without crying much. And it cannot be stopped unless we build a wall around the country, and man it with automatic weapons set to go off once the sensors pick up fuel.....

sammhi:

U only look at things from one perspective
Was Nitel effective?
But more importantly, the corruption under Nitel is like Nnpc so that looting will erode profit
Government establishment are always Avenue for corruption and over bloated work force . These 2 are reason for their failure
When MTN came , they wanted to run on Nitel cables so they pay them ..but Nitel decline ....imagine that decline source of revenue
So MTN and others has to build theirs laying cables all over again ...
It was not low price that sent Nitel out of market but massive looting and general poor management and ineffectiveness hence they couldn't compete.
If they were effective, the low Cost will attract more people into it and the numbers will return profit to them .Telecom is not by per person but by numbers because at certain number of people , the profit wil start to show .

Nitel failed because it was run as a government company with the aim of giving the poor access to phones. Meaning, it ran at a loss. You can pretend it isn't so, but when you are charging N22 a minute when you should be charging N40 a minute for phone calls.....

MTN works because they run at a profit. MTN does not care about if you are poor or rich, just pay them their money, and you get service. End of.And they charged much higher than NITEL ever did, which is where they got the money to build all those infrastructire, wires and antenna included.

SeriouslySense:
The trick i believe is that the government elites have major shares with Dangote's company, So they have a major say, and its indirectly owned by the elites who are constantly giving themselves the power to rule and mess up people lives.

So my friend the movement of Dangote's truck is for the benefit of the elites, not the people.

Nnpc is not producing anything....
They are just reaping where they did not sow
Crude is produced by shell , Chevron etc
Nnpc import refined products..so where is their production when the refineries are dead ...
Don't try to defend these corrupt corporation pls

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SeriouslySense:
The trick i believe is that the government elites have major shares with Dangote's company, So they have a major say, and its indirectly owned by the elites who are constantly giving themselves the power to rule and mess up people lives.

So my friend the movement of Dangote's truck is for the benefit of the elites, not the people.

At the end of the day, Dangote has compettiors, who also have the same government elite having shares there.

Dangote does not run a monopoly. People use other brands (eg there is one construction project by government some distance from where I live. They use Lafarge. cement. Not dangote)>

Pierocash:
In terms of fuel scarcity,the [b]Buhari government has scored more than 97% far more [/b]than the previous administrations. Since Buhari came into power, fuel scarcity became a thing of the past unlike previous administrations especially Gej, and Obj's Regime

This is a big fat lie

At the end of the day my friend, Dangote is still monopolizing the cement and other industries, because he is backed by government s and the elites within the government, and they make him the sole trader, because they aggressively back him up with public looting and even policies abi some regulations like the border regulations.

Backbencher2:


At the end of the day, Dangote has compettiors, who also have the same government elite having shares there.

Dangote does not run a monopoly. People use other brands (eg there is one construction project by government some distance from where I live. They use Lafarge. cement. Not dangote)>

SeriouslySense:
At the end of the day my friend, Dangote is still monopolizing the cement and other industries, because he is backed by government s and the elites within the government, and they make him the sole trader, because they aggressively back him up with public loots.

There is Lafarge, and BUA. And people use them.

And Ibeto is there too.

Racoon:
As Minister of Petroleum, it is a gross failure of responsibility for fuel scarcity to occur or for the NNPC to delegate it sole responsibility as importer of Petroleum products.

Honestly, this country is something else.

Before now, we're meant to believe that NNPC is the sole importer of PMS into the country.

Pierocash:
In terms of fuel scarcity,the Buhari government has scored more than 97% far more than the previous administrations. Since Buhari came into power, fuel scarcity became a thing of the past unlike previous administrations especially Gej, and Obj's Regime

what rubbish is this

What we have in Imo State is artificial scarcity planned and executed by the filling stations. They all sell with one metre each thereby causing long queues and creating a false sense of scarcity.

Is this one news or campaign for 2023

Backbencher2:


Which happens because we don't run a diversifed enough economy to earn enough forex.


Which all happpens because subsides makes local refining unprofitable in practice...and it is the same reason why we lost domestic refining capacity in the first place, because we were making the refineries run at a loss to keep subsidy costs low, and because we don't earn enough from crude to pay to keep up the refinereis otherwise (like the Saudis)

Which boils down to the fact that we need to earn more forex by...diversification and also removal of subsides.



You can only have refineries if you can guarantee the refineries will refine fuel at say N200 per liter and sell it at say N250 per liter to the market. Not at N50 per liter to help the poor and pay a subsidy that does not cover the resulting loss (using a hypothetical example)

Backbencher, as Sammhi's point is what I have tried to explain to you since you started your noble crusade against subsidies. the real issue is the exchange rate.

Your response to Sammhi is equally flawed because it is very difficult to find buyers for a countries products.

Even if Nigeria tried to set up industries today, countries will only purchase our products if there are the same quality as produced elsewhere but cheaper, or are better than produced elsewhere or are unique in some way.

a country is just like a business and its exchange rate can be a measure of profitability. businesses increase profits in two ways, increasing sales of profitable products or reducing cost thereby increasing the margins on each product.

Countries on the other hand can either increase exports or reduce imports to have a better exchange rate. In Nigeria's situation a much easier policy would be to reduce imports. In Nigeria, the rich account for most of the imports so taxing things the rich import would have a direct effect on the value of the Naira.


This is a better more complete view on our subsidy issues as opposed to simply saying the government should let market forces decide and at the same time industrialize.

Tianamen1:


Backbencher, as Sammhi's point is what I have tried to explain to you since you started your noble crusade against subsidies. the real issue is the exchange rate.

Your response to Sammhi is equally flawed because it is very difficult to find buyers for a countries products.

Even if Nigeria tried to set up industries today, countries will only purchase our products if there are the same quality as produced elsewhere but cheaper, or are better than produced elsewhere or are unique in some way.

a country is just like a business and its exchange rate can be a measure of profitability. businesses increase profits in two ways, increasing sales of profitable products or reducing cost thereby increasing the margins on each product.

Countries on the other hand can either increase exports or reduce imports to have a better exchange rate. In Nigeria's situation a much easier policy would be to reduce imports. In Nigeria, the rich account for most of the imports so taxing things the rich import would have a direct effect on the value of the Naira.


This is a better more complete view on our subsidy issues as opposed to simply saying the government should let market forces decide and at the same time industrialize.

Evening sir

Nigeria suffers from subsidy in two ways

1. Budget deficits

2. Forex loss.

3. No profit to build and maintain refineries.

At the end you suupport cheap fuel because you think it benefits the poor. I don't because it Does not beneift the poor. Two views, right in their ways

Good evening

Useless government.APC is a disgrace to humanity.Bunch of loosers

Ever since the fuel scarcity truly took a toll on the nation I stopped using my generator and started using a solar solution from Arnergy Solar and I'm glad that I did because I honestly can't bear the losses with the fuel price hike not to even talk about the adulterated fuel sold by black market vendors.

ijustdey:


https://guardian.ng/news/buhari-endorses-plan-to-end-fuel-scarcity/

For the past 7yrs is there any policy he endorsed that has worked? just 1 policy none they should Park and go

Pierocash:
In terms of fuel scarcity,the Buhari government has scored more than 97% far more than the previous administrations. Since Buhari came into power, fuel scarcity became a thing of the past unlike previous administrations especially Gej, and Obj's Regime

You Nigerians easily adopt to suffering and start smiling immediately.

You are not thinking a bit about the increase of fuel price since buhari came in.
It has doubled as at 2months ago and beyond. From 85 to 168naira

And it as good as tripped now, selling at above 200naira in most fuel stations.


Yet you praise him for fuel-abdundance.

Buhari endorse plan to end fuel scarcity from his UK branch office.

Backbencher2:



Evening sir

Nigeria suffers from subsidy in two ways

[b][/b]1. Budget deficits

2. Forex loss.

3. No profit to build and maintain refineries.

At the end you suupport cheap fuel because you think it benefits the poor. I don't because it Does not beneift the poor. Two views, right in their ways

Good evening

Sir, I do not support cheap fuel.

This is the issue I have with you. I am saying one thing and you are saying a totally different thing. I understand you are a doctor by training but try to give some thought to what I am writing to you.

What does cheap fuel even mean? All I wrote down, nothing made sense to you. In 2010-2014 the price of crude ranged from $90-$150 yet the local price of petrol in Nigeria was N97 and N147 with and without subsidy.

Today Nigerians should be paying over N300 for fuel without subsidies. You argue that the production cost has gone up. I and Sammhi are explaining to you that the difference is mainly as a result of the falling Naira. I give an explanation of how the Naira can be stabilized and your response is that I want cheap fuel. Wow

Tianamen1:


Sir, I do not support cheap fuel.

This is the issue I have with you. I am saying one thing and you are saying a totally different thing. I understand you are a doctor by training but try to give some thought to what I am writing to you.

What does cheap fuel even mean? All I wrote down, nothing made sense to you. In 2010-2014 the price of crude ranged from $90-$150 yet the local price of petrol in Nigeria was N97 and N147 with and without subsidy.

Today Nigerians should be paying over N300 for fuel without subsidies. You argue that the production cost has gone up. I and Sammhi are explaining to you that the difference is mainly as a result of the falling Naira. I give an explanation of how the Naira can be stabilized and your response is that I want cheap fuel. Wow

Good, so let us pay N300 and above for fuel , and stop subsidies completely. So that we have more forex for buffering the naira, meaning that prices eventually fall with improving value.(instead of paying off forex to NNPC to keep them from collapsing)

And vote for a government that actually diversifies so that we can get more forex coming in, and thus a better valued naira.

Simple.



And there is no such thing as cheap fuel. There is something called pricing fuel appropriately so that we can have enough profit to build and attract more investment and jobs for refineries.

I hope I am clear.

Good evening.

Cork n bull story. Shebi una say na war btw Ukraine n Russia cus the scarcity, war never end but now una don get plan.... yeye dey smell

Backbencher2:
Landing cost in June 2021: N232.
Landing cost 6 weeks ago : N282
Landing cost last week N330.

Government cost of petrol since late 2020..N162.

Matter of difference between landing cost and set price of petrol...which is why subsidy rises.


Simple solution...which we should have done since 1993....remove subsidy. Not done, because if we had done that in 1993....by now, fuel would be over N400, and food, and other prices rise. Governments, especially this one, too scared to do so.

The Jonathan government wanted to do it in 2012 but political considerations made Buhari, Tinubu and other APC people rally against it.
If Jonathan’s 2012 deregulation happened back then won’t we have extensive local refinery capacity exporting to neighbouring countries as well as lower prices with employment implications like we have in the telecoms sector, which also had initial high prices?

anonimi:


The Jonathan government wanted to do it in 2012 but political considerations made Buhari, Tinubu and other APC people rally against it.
If Jonathan’s 2012 deregulation happened back then won’t we have extensive local refinery capacity exporting to neighbouring countries as well as lower prices with employment implications like we have in the telecoms sector, which also had initial high prices?

All true, but Nigerians love subsidy. Too much. Politics aside.

Backbencher2

Good, so let us pay N300 and above for fuel , and stop subsidies completely. So that we have more forex for buffering the naira, meaning that prices eventually fall with improving value.(instead of paying off forex to NNPC to keep them from collapsing)

Even if Nigerians pay N300 for fuel, the price of petrol will keep rising as our rich keep importing things they do not need.

And vote for a government that actually diversifies so that we can get more forex coming in, and thus a better valued naira.

To industrialize, Nigeria needs to invest heavily in basic education and infrastructure. The government’s revenues are insufficient for this. Even if Nigeria gets its public education right, there is no guarantee that our exports would be desirable. We need to produce for ourselves and reduce imports, Simple.

And there is no such thing as cheap fuel. There is something called pricing fuel appropriately so that we can have enough profit to build and attract more investment and jobs for refineries.

I hope I am clear.

Good evening.

How is the price of petrol determined, this is the point of all my conversations with you. By the market price of crude, the production costs and most importantly the local exchange rate in a country which is both affected by imports and exports.
Nigeria has one of the lowest Tax to GDP ratios on earth and it is amongst the most unequal countries in earth.
I hope you can also understand what I am saying.

Backbencher2:
All true, but Nigerians love subsidy. Too much. Politics aside.

Informed people like you are also Nigerians. Why don’t you do more to create a critical mass of similarly well informed Nigerians for a country that works better for us all?

Pierocash:
In terms of fuel scarcity,the Buhari government has scored more than 97% far more than the previous administrations. Since Buhari came into power, fuel scarcity became a thing of the past unlike previous administrations especially Gej, and Obj's Regime

why won't you say that when you ve short memories....

There was a thread here weeks ago about the number of times we've had scarcity since Buhari came to power

Tianamen1:
Backbencher2


Even if Nigerians pay N300 for fuel, the price of petrol will keep rising as our rich keep importing things they do not need.

To industrialize, Nigeria needs to invest heavily in basic education and infrastructure. The government’s revenues are insufficient for this. Even if Nigeria gets its public education right, there is no guarantee that our exports would be desirable. We need to produce for ourselves and reduce imports, Simple.




How is the price of petrol determined, this is the point of all my conversations with you. By the market price of crude, the production costs and most importantly the local exchange rate in a country which is both affected by imports and exports.
Nigeria has one of the lowest Tax to GDP ratios on earth and it is amongst the most unequal countries in earth.
I hope you can also understand what I am saying.

I do, and at the end, all I am saying is....let petrol be sold at a profit...so that we can stop wasting millions on subsidy, and so that we can incentivize domestic refining, and reduce losses of forex.

That is all I am saying. It is simple. And succinct.

jlinkd78:
A statement that Buhari would soon deny and distance himself from

Be positive, at all times.

The News Agency of Nigeria (NAN) reports that what used to be a recurring decimal of fuel scarcity had been reduced to the barest minimum by the Buhari administration until the recent case of adulterated petrol.

bilulu:

[s] why won't you say that when you ve short memories.... [/s]

There was a thread here weeks ago about the number of times we've had scarcity since Buhari came to power

Lol. Just compare and contrast now. How old were you between 1999 and 2007 before we begin?

Pierocash:
In terms of fuel scarcity,the Buhari government has scored more than 97% far more than the previous administrations. Since Buhari came into power, fuel scarcity became a thing of the past unlike previous administrations especially Gej, and Obj's Regime

For your mind you think you are making sense without knowing you sound rather stupid and pathetic

maasoap:


Lol. Just compare and contrast now. How old were you between 1999 and 2007 before we begin?

Lolz.... and you think age still comes with wisdom. See were the old ancestor has led you guys to in Nigeria.