JomoGbomo2:

My only crux on this issue is why use the term "Islamic or Shariah" why not just float the non interest banking system.

I am an investor in this Jaiz bank, I bought my shares in 2004/5. That's way back before sanusi.

That is the most important question and when you begin to ask that question you will get nearer to the truth.

mikeansy:

That is the most important question and when you begin to ask that question you will get nearer to the truth.

the reason it's called that name is because it orignated from a way of life and in this case Islam and it is a way of acknowledging that

lets not try a bomb from a little spark because it is called "Islamic"

alj_harem:


the reason it's called that name is because it orignated from a way of life and in this case Islam and it is a way of acknowledging that

lets not try a bomb from a little spark because it is called "Islamic"

Given the history of Nigeria, its challenges, and its experiences . . . do you think such titles is the responsible thing to do?

Given our experience of how the Sharia law has caused so much trouble because some State Governors decided to expand the limits of the law?

I think Sanusi's irresponsible experiment will be met with equal measure of opposition. Does his new guidelines require NASS approval?

I don't suppose Soludo would have had it any easier if as CBN Governor he proposes any form of Christain Banking. It is called an appreciation of the existing challenges you have and the earlier Sanusi does a careful U-TURN on this issue the better for all of us.

And BTW who will fund the non-interest aspects of the banking? I see another Big Government programme that will fuel corruption and encourage waste.

Maybe people are just insecure that's why they feel threatened by the concept of Islamic banking.

Islamic banking is banking or banking activity that is consistent with the principles of Islamic law and its practical application through the development of Islamic economics which prohibits the payment or acceptance of specific interest or fees (known as Riba or usury) for loans of money.

A number of Islamic banks were formed to apply these principles to private or semi-private commercial institutions within the Muslim community in numerous counties around the world.

In UK, Lloyds TSB and HSBC Banks offer Islamic Banking for its customers, the same can be offered by banks in Nigeria. It hasn't affected those banks in UK which is much more developed and civilized than Nigeria so why should it affect the Nigerian banking system? Islamic banking is not only used by Muslims.

Sanusi isn't implying that all banks will only offer Islamic Banking. Maybe people should research into this before making reckless and brash comments.

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It is easier to check the limits of Islamic Banking in UK. But in Nigeria once you open the flood gates only God knows what can happen next.

You only have to check the details of the provision of the Sharia law in the Nigerian constitution and then compare it to what obtains in practice to understand what we are saying.

The rest of us have every right to be worried about the introduction of Islamic banking given our experience of how laws and statutes get stretched in Nigeria beyond their original intentions.

will islamic banks employ xtians and will it lend money to non Islam,

as a matter of fact there will be outright discrimination and they will never be regulated cos of the principle of Islam that bound the cbn governor and the promoters of the bank.

what happen to to bank of the north, they never meet the said 25billion recapitalization still soludo approved, later they merge them with unity bank, what is thr performance of unity bank in Nigeria financial system,



abeg make them allow them, i believe say then go die natural death.

JomoGbomo2:

My only crux on this issue is why use the term "Islamic or Shariah" why not just float the non interest banking system.

I am an investor in this Jaiz bank, I bought my shares in 2004/5. That's way back before sanusi.

Thanks you! I have asked just about same question; why should Sanusi use the term Islamic or Sharia, why not float it as non-interest. I for one isn't against the concept in Islamic banking but the term used.

BetaThings:

Tell me how an Islamic bank that is sharia compliant will hurt christians. Maybe we would share your worries if you explain that.
If the fund is not used in sharia compliant methods, the CBN and NDIC inspectors should act. It also seems that people are not worried that the existing banks may not channel their fund to legitimate ends

This goes to explain that you're still not getting my argument. The concept of Islamic (non-interest) is cool which seem to apply to all major religious groups, like I stated in my prior post which I can reference, why does it have to be Islamic, why not non interest banking or religious banking. That way the Nigerian people do not feel like a bind, I stressed out that religion or it's phrase should not be linked with business.

BetaThings:


You were the one who asked if the head of the BoE is a muslim and you wanted an answer ASAP. you have not told us why you asked the question.

Look @ page 4 if I'm correct to see how the question came about.

BetaThings:


How is religion protected? By opposing what muslims want while we don't oppose what you want?
Looks like christians don't appreciate that a lot of muslims are not able to borrow from the conventional banks because of interest. So if I have an opportunity for borrowing on a non-interest basis, why should christians oppose that?

Religion is a "protected class" because its a fundamental right of the people have a special attachment to religion just like race and in that case given that people have religious settings, it cannot be discriminated upon therefore it's protected. So when laws or policies particularly to protected class elements like Race, gender (sex), Religion, et al,

I don't understand how u mean by " opposing what muslims want while we don't oppose what you want?" Banking is a central activity which is governed by a federal indigenous agency. You can practice what you want if it's limited to where it's practiced but when that activity is absolved into a central activity, it would create chaos. For instance, Kano state is a Northern state, if the governor wishes to back Islamic banking on a state wide basis through its state of finance, that's a different story, but when the CBN is directly backing using a central banking platform because its a regulatory agency, then there's cause for alarm.

BetaThings:


I went to a public school, but I was not taught IRS, but BS. Should that not have been protected? And the way christians are opposing this, it would likely lead to similar opposition to whatever christians want in the future.

Financial institutions might have to be bailed out. But CBN control that risk - guidelines, examination etc Why do we think the investors are going to run the biz aground to be bailed out by CBN?

Yeah religion is protected and should not be imposed particularly on a central basis so long it's not limited. If you chose to opt out of BS, I assume it's Bible studies, you would have. I will use the Kano example, I don't know if the state practices Sharia, I'm sure they do, that law applies to all citizens regardless of whatever ur religion is because it on a limited basis. My point is individual religious rights are one thing, but when a govt or agency backs a particular motive like Lagos imposing BS on all public school kids, don't u think there will be chaos?

How do u mean by " Why do we think the investors are going to run the biz aground to be bailed out by CBN?"

No one asked the CBN to bail out banks, in a real economy, the federal reserve is the last options for bail out in the case banks are not able to raise money. CBN has been criticized of funding one bank and the other giving them ultimatum meanwhile imposing strict rules restricting these banks to recapitalize.

BetaThings:

So it is name calling now? I did not call you Mr Foreign Exchange when you started lecturing about forex 101, did I?
Those people are very different animals. If I own enough of a stock, I can afford not to listen to other shareholders as I can buy them out, frustrate them by not paying dividends, appoint my friends as directors and pay them huge salaries

The point remains that when you hate a company passionately like you say you do Walmart you cannot join in setting it up
You are just taking advantage of the quick opportunities in Walmart given its large size, you would not buy shares in an Islamic bank now if you are not hopeful it would do well

First off publicly traded companies on a stock exchange are bound by securities and exchange policies so everything u just wrote is so incorrect. You own more stock means, you have more voting power not rights nor privileges than others do. So if u own 50% and your company has 50 other investors with 1% each, if all 50 vote for a NO and you vote a YES, you guys just reached an impasse. If you don't listen to other shareholder, guess what, you're nearing bankruptcy. The stock exchange and foreign exchange are very volatile and liquid, so if u don't listen, you will wake up the next morning to find out the other 50 has deserted your company. You can buy them out ONLY IF they choose to, not that you will force them to and it depends on what kinds of stock was issued to them.

In a well run company and according to most securities and exchange laws, the Board of Directors decide with a vote to pay dividends to shareholders, now the CEO can chair the board, but have no control over the board. The Board decides with a NO or YES if they want to pay dividends. Again in a public traded company, the CEO DOES NOT appoint directors, that is job of the shareholders. Through their meetings, they will discuss on who they want as directors of the company. Through a majority of the votes cast by shareholder particularly 2/3rd of the votes, then they appoint a director.

That I hate a company or it's services does not mean I'm not in it for the money. An investor invests to make money not empathy. I dislike walmart's labor practices but does not mean I will not invest in them. It does not matter whether you start them up or invested in them later, bottom line is you have an equity in the business. That is my whole point, financial conviction is one thing (profit), personal conviction is another (empathy, ethics, et al). For instance, walmart has been doing terribly bad unlike few years ago, but assuming their stocks was good, looking at the case that was reversed from the Supreme court, I was really rooting for the women even though they lost. Even when Walmart trying to build on a historic site here in VA, people opposed it even their own shareholder threatened.Another example, a Supreme Court Justice who had shares with an oil company connected with an oil spill, even though he did not recuse himself, but he did not side with the company after all. Does that mean he will dump his shares because of personal conviction? It depends on people, if your personal conviction supersedes your financial conviction, nothing wrong with that. In this case, I strongly opposed the term Islamic or Sharia and WON'T invest it no matter it's profit, however if it was non-interest or central religious banking then yeah I would and to ans ur question, investing is one thing and just because one igbo man invested doesn't mean he won't be opposed to it when time comes.

In matters of this nature, what is congruent for christians now, is to go and jettison those anti-violent parts in their scripture and get ready for this muslims. Mmadu anaghi ano n'ulo ya nopia mkpuru amu. This belaneau must stop!

REDs house:

will islamic banks employ xtians and will it lend money to non Islam,

as a matter of fact there will be outright discrimination and they will never be regulated cos of the principle of Islam that bound the cbn governor and the promoters of the bank.

what happen to to bank of the north, they never meet the said 25billion recapitalization still soludo approved, later they merge them with unity bank, what is thr performance of unity bank in Nigeria financial system,



abeg make them allow them, i believe say then go die natural death.

red house maybe you dont get the concept of Islamic Banking. It is a system of banking and not a bank itself. Any bank can offer the system of Islamic banking to its customers. You do not have to be a muslim in order for you to be able to use this system.

There is nothing like Islamic banks and there is nothing like non-Islam, I think you meant Islamic Banking and non-muslims.

salamsm:

red house maybe you dont get the concept of Islamic Banking. It is a system of banking and not a bank itself. Any bank can offer the system of Islamic banking to its customers. You do not have to be a muslim in order for you to be able to use this system.

There is nothing like Islamic banks and there is nothing like non-Islam, I think you meant Islamic Banking and non-muslims.

Not completely true

There are Islamic banks and there are also non-Islamic banks that offer Islamic banking products for Muslims.

No doubt sanusi doesn't know what his doing, How can a reasonable person introduce ISLAMIC BANKING in a voilatile society like ours,
He should have call it non inerest banking and make to possible those feature,
if the plan success, All Nigeria banks are in serious problem because BOKO ARAM and other blood sucking Muslim fanastics will see them as christian banks.
These bank will be their next target instead of churches,
BUT ONE THING IS SURE, ISLAMIC BANKING WILL DIE A NATURAL DEATH

Is Silly Sanusi the Stupid not stooped in stupendous stupor? Hardly have the bombs of Boko Haram boomed away, ploughing through our pecuniary and poverty propelled police posses than that silly Sanusi comes up with his Terrorist Banking. Of course everything Islamic is now terrorist! Whether it makes sense or not.

That is why Jang the Fang, fresh from his rigging spree, wants to ban the call to prayer - that other act of Islamic terrorism that destroy the sleep of the
faithful and unfaithful early in the morning. Lucky some service personnel were wise enough to warn that we do not need another night of long knives, waving machetes from deranged Almajiri, baying like vampires for more of the blood of Jesus, His craven followers, are supposed to drink with his flesh.

Stereotypes. Northern and Southern stereotypes. Stupidity serenades the soft-headed with stereotypes of North and South; blinding flashes of religious and ethnic hatred that prevent both sides from seeing that they have more in common than they have apart. Hooked on the internet and facebook, digital boundaries unleashed across endless possibilities of communication and fantasy; yet geographically bound in their narrow parts of the Nigerian space. Wallowing in the squalor of half truths and half knowledge, our internet gurus succumb to the lowest common denominators of tragic platitudes and prejudices.

Through hues painted dark, in the narrow corners of tribal and religious minds, they see dark evil, where bright light beams, to save them from their own follies.

Like our single stories, told from our narrow points of view, and our group blames that commit murder and unleash genocide, our stereotypes are the seed, earth and fertiliser that bloom the harvest of prejudice.

As 8 year old Almajiri pupils become wanton killers of Southern Stereotypes, they reinforce single stories of wanton killers. Islam becomes the automatic religion of Taliban fields of blood. The blood soaked Americans become rabid saints that give us Rap, Jeans and Sordid Sex. The American holy killers who have buried thousands of Japanese, Vietnamese and Muslim Arabs with atomic bombs, napalm bombs and cluster bombs, come dripping in the scent of saints. The Americans who carted away 30 million slaves from the coast of West Africa, come dripping with the scents of saints.

Oh! The power of stereotypes, so powerful that when we see good we cannot understand it. And when we see evil, we embrace it with lustful desire, wreaking havoc through our warped senses of liberation.

Oh! The power of stereotypes, that a system which can verily save the ordinary man from the usury, the interest rates of Judaeo-Christian capitalism has been dubbed Terrorist banking.

But do you know what Islamic Banking is all about? Before you go up in arms and scream that the terrorists want to rape the last vestiges of your life, let’s find out.

In Christianity they call it USURY. In Judaism it is abhorred, yet USURY became the hallmark by which the stereotype of the evil Jew was adorned in Europe and led to pogrom after pogrom in which Christians repeatedly slaughtered Jews, till it culminated in Hitler and the holocaust of 6 million Jews, slaughtered on the altar of the other Christian God - that the Nazi’s claimed was the same God that the British, French and Americans worshipped – the God of the Jews.

In Shakespeare’s Merchant of Venice, Shylock the Jew, who wanted a pound of flesh for the money he loaned, was portrayed as the very personification of Jewish Stereotypes that persist till this day - that bloody, evil bloodsucker that lent money with interest to “honest” Christians. It is a common stereotype that the Igbo share with the Jews (whom some Igbo claim to descend from). Stereotypes, that like the Jews, led to the rest of Nigeria murdering 2 million Igbo in the Biafra genocide, and yet the other tribes feel no guilt, because they believed the Igbo were greedy, evil, blood suckers. Even the Germans wept and regretted the Jewish genocide. But Nigeria? Not
yet. The perpetrators create more illusions to justify their crimes.

Oh! The power of stereotypes. If the Igbo are not greedy traders, the Hausas and Fulani and mindless Almajiri on the Warpath, and the Yoruba are selfish owambe dancers salivating for the next oversized Ikebe. In our narrow worlds, even with the power of the internet, we do not
expand, we choose not to roam, but to seclude ourselves to the comfort of our little groups and territories in cyber space, from which we can abuse and evict alternative views, which we can embrace, understand and learn from, but nevertheless choose comfortable digital spaces
that merely reflect our physical geographical limitations.

But what is Islamic Banking. It means the bank takes a risk with you. In November 2008, the financial houses of America and Europe came crashing down because of interests that borrowers of mortgages for homes, could not afford. The people that lent them the money, who do not take loans themselves, had long gone with their profits. The poor people lost their homes, their jobs, etc. Lehman brothers, that heart of interest SIN, crashed with thousands of jobs lost. And in the ping pong that followed, like a pack of cards, the Nigerian stock market came crashing down.

Let us understand what Islamic banking is. It is a misnomer. A religious misnomer that tags the only way of lending, that makes sense, with some religious do’s and don’ts, and converts the most sensible way of lending money into what Southern Stereotypes see as Terrorist Banking.

Normal banking with interest is truly evil. These bankers trap you into borrowing money at fantastic rates you cant afford. They take all your profits, or worse still, they plunge you into debt that can plunge you into death. You doubt me? Check the statistics of those who committed suicide during the 2008-2009 world-wide financial meltdown.

What is Islamic Banking. Islamic Banking is Venture Capital – pure and simple. Go and google Venture Capital. It is Venture Capital that built Google, Facebook, Yahoo and all the other gizmos and gadgetry from America’s Silicon Valley. They were started by University students who had no money and who could not take loan from usurious, interest laden bankers. That was their saving grace. Venture Capital means people who put their money together, lend it to the businessman
and take a risk with the business man. If you make money, they share the profit with you according to the percentage they put in. If Nigerian banks had to do that, they will never lend you the money you don’t need and take interest off you. If the World Bank was based on Venture Capital, it means third world countries will not be paying all their money, to service the interest they owe, to banks in Europe and America.

The biggest crime that Silly Sanusi committed was calling it Islamic Banking. That is where his silliness stops. There is no way ordinary Western Bankers in the other Nigerian Banks will agree to the humanity of sharing profits and losses with the person you lend money. Why?
Because it makes them more honest and responsible. For now, once they get your house as collateral, they can give you any amount of money for any stupid idea you have, with the ruthless intention to take your money and your house from you with interests. Venture Capital funding
will never lend money to a fool. If you fail, they fail with you. If you succeed, they succeed with you and share your profits. It makes bankers much more responsible, and it protects the borrower from tragedy.

Once Islamic Banking or Venture Capital enters the Nigerian market, it will overtake the ordinary banks, because it is more customer friendly, and will free you from the evil interest rates of Nigerian banks.

Oh. The Evil of Stereotypes! All this makes me think of the blind rejection of Sharia. Allow people to follow their religions and the religious courts they wish to be judged under. Right now, Nigerian Law is based on British Common Law which was originally Christian Cannon (Church Law) Law. Muslims were forced to submit to it by the British Empire. Christians say Sharia cuts of people’s hands. Yes its literal application does that. But let’s put it in context. Today, cutting the hands of a thief will seem draconian, but in 6th Century AD Islam, cutting the hands of a thief was an act of kindness in an age of swords and ruthless, evil kings. At the time, from Europe to Asia, there were hideous ways of killing thieves - burning, dungeons, beheading – and the terrible drawn, hung and quartered - thieves were drawn by horses pulling from either ends till their bones popped from their joints, then pulled by horses till almost dead, then hung up for the City to see, then when they died were cut in four pieces.

Prophet Mohammed (SAW) introduced hand cutting in Sharia as an act of kindness, and increased the degree of proof required, as in the case of adultery before stoning, which is very difficult to prove. But the Truth is we are no longer in the 6th Century AD and Islam needs to
update to what the Prophet Mohammed (SAW) would have done if he were here today. In other words Islam should get more imaginative, follow the Heart of the Prophet and ask: What if the Prophet was here today, how would he have responded? as opposed to an Arabia of ruthless murderous kings that wanted to destroy the Prophet and his message.

So perhaps Silly Sanusi is not as silly as we want to make him out. He should stop calling it Islamic Banking and call it Venture Capital banking – then it is up to Muslims and Christians to use a more humane banking system, to decide whether or not, to invest in Pork, Halal Meat or Digital Fantasies.

Oh! The Danger of Stereotypes!!

Single stories
Killing glories
Group Blames
Fan flames
Deadly Stereotypes
That evil hypes
We revel in possession
Claiming with passion
You and yours
Me and mine
Boundaries and Lines
Laced with mines
Of hates and shames
Burning in flames

I am not a Northerner. I am not a Southerner. The Truth has no tribe or religion. The Truth is Neutral. The Truth is Deadly. But the Truth shall set us free.

Not my article,but a brilliant piece for one with open mind.

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It is absolutely naive to equate Venture Capital with Islamic Banking. Venture Capitalists manage to make profits. The most successful Islamic Banks are State backed Iranian banks. Islamic Banking collapsed in Pakistan.

Islamic Banking requires the banks to take more risks.

Katsumoto
Kyoto
Posts: 3600

Online

Re: Cardinal Okogie Says No To Islamic Banking
« #173 on: Today at 06:02:01 PM »

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It is absolutely naive to equate Venture Capital with Islamic Banking. Venture Capitalists manage to make profits. The most successful Islamic Banks are State backed Iranian banks. Islamic Banking collapsed in Pakistan.

Islamic Banking requires the banks to take more risks.

see who is talking about collapse banks.So the conventional bank do not collapse? Yes islamic banks can collapse,it is a business for God sake.so there is profit or loss just like any other bank.All they are asking is the ability to try their business legally wether profit or loss.and you are denying them of their citizen right simply because Islam is attached to the name.
for the umpteenth times this is not a government bank,its only regulated by government.

see who is talking about collapse banks.So the conventional bank do not collapse? Yes islamic banks can collapse,it is a business for God sake.so there is profit or loss just like any other bank.All they are asking is the ability to try their business legally wether profit or loss.and you are denying them of their citizen right simply because Islam is attached to the name.
for the umpteenth times this is not a government bank,its only regulated by government.
[quote][/quote]

There is a BIG difference between a bank failing and a banking system failing. If Islamic banking is so viable why isn't it bigger in Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, and Bahrain? Those countries are all richer than Iran.Why is it that 7 of the biggest Islamic banks are in Iran? And why are those banks State owned? The objective of Islamic Banking is not to charge Riba; why then do 'Islamic Banks' in Malaysia and Bangladesh such as the Grameen bank charge Riba? Conventional banks in the West offer Muslims the ability to make deposits that don't yield interest but the same banks charge Muslims interests on loans and overdrafts.

The CBN should provide the framework for Islamic Banking; it shouldn't be championed by an Islamic Schola who also doubles as the CBN governor? Why is it a personal crusade for Sanusi? Why is Sanusi going all over the world promoting Islamic Banking and JAIZ Bank? Shouldn't that be the Job of Muttalab (JAIZ Bank Chairman)?

The fear that some have is that if JAIZ bank fails, the Government will step in using public funds. If government allows the Islamic banks to fail, Muslim extremists will see it as an agenda and probably start attacks on innocent people and institutions. Nigeria is a secular country and Islamic banking is likely to cause further chaos. Afterall, Islamic Banks are found only in countries that have a predominant Muslim population.

There is a BIG difference between a bank failing and a banking system failing. If Islamic banking is so viable why isn't it bigger in Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, and Bahrain? Those countries are all richer than Iran.Why is it that 7 of the biggest Islamic banks are in Iran? And why are those banks State owned? The objective of Islamic Banking is not to charge Riba; why then do 'Islamic Banks' in Malaysia and Bangladesh such as the Grameen bank charge Riba? Conventional banks in the West offer Muslims the ability to make deposits that don't yield interest but the same banks charge Muslims interests on loans and overdrafts.

The CBN should provide the framework for Islamic Banking; it shouldn't be championed by an Islamic Schola who also doubles as the CBN governor? Why is it a personal crusade for Sanusi? Why is Sanusi going all over the world promoting Islamic Banking and JAIZ Bank? Shouldn't that be the Job of Muttalab (JAIZ Bank Chairman)?

The fear that some have is that if JAIZ bank fails, the Government will step in using public funds. If government allows the Islamic banks to fail, Muslim extremists will see it as an agenda and probably start attacks on innocent people and institutions. Nigeria is a secular country and Islamic banking is likely to cause further chaos. Afterall, Islamic Banks are found only in countries that have a predominant Muslim population.

Islamic banking services are available in more than 300 institutions spread over 51 countries, including the United States and the United Kingdom (the same UK of Archbishop of Canterbury and the Anglicans) and Italy (the same Italy of the Pope, the Vatican and Catholic). In the US, the Michigan-based University Bank (universityislamicfinancial.com) leads others in Islamic banking, as well as an additional 250 mutual funds that comply with Islamic principles. In the UK, there is the appropriately-named Islamic Bank of Britain (islamic-bank.com). Islamic Banking is growing at a rate of nearly 20% per year and with signs of consistent future growth. Islamic banking has almost One Trillion US Dollars under management. The UK’s Financial Services Authority, FSA (fsa.gov.uk) says it “welcomes the innovation that Islamic banking brings and the diversity it facilitates.

Exactly what CBN did,providing the framework and guidlines for it implementation and you people said he needs to have gone on enlightenment campaign because of our felow xtians.now they are speaking out and you say the CBN is championing the course.aaah!

OK if the bank fails and government bails it out,so what?hasnt it happen before? what happened to the current bailed banks?the government after stabilising will sell its share back to the public as its about to be done with the current bailed banks.so what is wrong with that?

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Many of those institutions have products that allow you to have accounts that are not interest bearing. Please name the banks that give interest free loans.

You think Western banks are not pleased with the idea of taking deposits that they wont pay interest on? That is the beauty of Islamic banking products to Western banks.

we must understand that supporting Islamic banking in Nigeria is Subjective, we are all entitled to support or reject the idea, as for me, any economic measure that can guarantee the future of Nigeria's dead economy is ok for me. i still respect and hold the cardinal in high esteem.

I think something is wrong with our head if Bishop like those thieving bqnk let him set up Katolik bank no sweat. Am not q muslin but I look. Foward to sharia banking steal & be dealt with fine fine!!THIEF. THIEF PEOPLE

Vatican offers Islamic finance system to Western Banks
The Vatican says Islamic finance system may help Western banks in crisis as alternative to capitalistm.

World Bulletin / News Desk

The Vatican offered Islamic finance principles to Western banks as a solution for worldwide economic crisis.

Daily Vatican newspaper, 'L'Osservatore Romano, reported that Islamic banking system may help to overcome global crisis, Turkish media reported.
The Vatican said banks should look at the ethical rules of Islamic finance to restore confidence amongst their clients at a time of global economic crisis.

"The ethical principles on which Islamic finance is based may bring banks closer to their clients and to the true spirit which should mark every financial service," the Vatican's official newspaper Osservatore Romano said in an article in its latest issue late yesterday.

Author Loretta Napoleoni and Abaxbank Spa fixed income strategist, Claudia Segre, say in the article that "Western banks could use tools such as the Islamic bonds, known as sukuk, as collateral". Sukuk may be used to fund the "'car industry or the next Olympic Games in London," they said.

They also said that profit share, gained from sukuk, may be an alternative to the interest. They underlined that sukuk system could help automotive sector and support investments in infrastructure area.

Islamic sukuk system is similar to bonos of capitalist system. But in sukuk, money is invested concrete projects and profit share is distributed to clients instead of interest earned.

Pope Benedict XVI in an Oct. 7 speech reflected on crashing financial markets saying that "money vanishes, it is nothing" and concluded that "the only solid reality is the word of God." The Vatican has been paying attention to the global financial meltdown and ran articles in its official newspaper that criticize the free-market model for having "grown too much and badly in the past two decades."

The Osservatore's editor, Giovanni Maria Vian, said that "the great religions have always had a common attention to the human dimension of the economy," Corriere della Sera reported today.

http://www.worldbulletin.net/?aType=haberArchive&ArticleID=37814

Pope said yes to Islamic banking, some businessmen in Nigeria calling themselves pastors said No. They better concentrate on collecting their ten ten percent from their gullible followers and leave matters for which they have little or no knowledge instead of overheating the system. If they have an alternative to Islamic banking, let them bring it forward and obtain their licenses, after all they were giving licenses to run universities regulated by similar govt. agencies like CBN. Enough of this incitements.

http://www.worldbulletin.net/?aType=haberArchive&ArticleID=37814

Pope said yes to Islamic banking, some businessmen in Nigeria calling themselves pastors said No. They better concentrate on collecting their ten ten percent from their gullible followers and leave matters for which they have little or no knowledge instead of overheating the system. If they have an alternative to Islamic banking, let them bring it forward and obtain their licenses, after all they were giving licenses to run universities regulated by similar govt. agencies like CBN. Enough of this incitements.
[quote][/quote]

Without that statement, it would have been a reasonable comment. Every Nigerian has a right to his own point of view. The least you can do is respect it.

manny4life:

First off publicly traded companies on a stock exchange are bound by securities and exchange policies so everything u just wrote is so incorrect. You own more stock means, you have more voting power not rights nor privileges than others do. So if u own 50% and your company has 50 other investors with 1% each, if all 50 vote for a NO and you vote a YES, you guys just reached an impasse. If you don't listen to other shareholder, guess what, you're nearing bankruptcy. The stock exchange and foreign exchange are very volatile and liquid, so if u don't listen, you will wake up the next morning to find out the other 50 has deserted your company. You can buy them out ONLY IF they choose to, not that you will force them to and it depends on what kinds of stock was issued to them.

In a well run company and according to most securities and exchange laws, the Board of Directors decide with a vote to pay dividends to shareholders, now the CEO can chair the board, but have no control over the board. The Board decides with a NO or YES if they want to pay dividends. Again in a public traded company, the CEO DOES NOT appoint directors, that is job of the shareholders. Through their meetings, they will discuss on who they want as directors of the company. Through a majority of the votes cast by shareholder particularly 2/3rd of the votes, then they appoint a director.

That I hate a company or it's services does not mean I'm not in it for the money. An investor invests to make money not empathy. I dislike walmart's labor practices but does not mean I will not invest in them. It does not matter whether you start them up or invested in them later, bottom line is you have an equity in the business. That is my whole point, financial conviction is one thing (profit), personal conviction is another (empathy, ethics, et al). For instance, walmart has been doing terribly bad unlike few years ago, but assuming their stocks was good, looking at the case that was reversed from the Supreme court, I was really rooting for the women even though they lost. Even when Walmart trying to build on a historic site here in VA, people opposed it even their own shareholder threatened.Another example, a Supreme Court Justice who had shares with an oil company connected with an oil spill, even though he did not recuse himself, but he did not side with the company after all. Does that mean he will dump his shares because of personal conviction? It depends on people, if your personal conviction supersedes your financial conviction, nothing wrong with that. In this case, I strongly opposed the term Islamic or Sharia and WON'T invest it no matter it's profit, however if it was non-interest or central religious banking then yeah I would and to ans your question, investing is one thing and just because one igbo man invested doesn't mean he won't be opposed to it when time comes.

your argument is theoretical. Dangote controls decisions (directors appointment, CEO, dividends) made in Dangote Flour, Dangote Sugar etc
Ocean and Oil took control of Unipetrol and renamed it Oando with less than 35% holding
kim Osagie controlled UBA while holding less than 30%
How easy is it to get 50 people with 1% to join together to confront a single person with 50%. Worst case, he needs to attract only 1 of them to his side. and how do you get all the 50 together in a public company. Do you go to the registrar and ask for a list and start calling them. We are talking about thousands of people here
When the FD of AP now Forte Oil said Otedola was fleecing the company, what did SEC do? What did other shareholders do? What happened when there was share readjustment (without any rational basis) in Sterling Bank and some people were disadvantaged? What did SEC and minority shareholders do?
If the Waltons start selling Walmart shares, the market would pay a lot of attention
When you bought and sold, who paid attention? No insult meant to you. But you are a minority shareholder in Walmart
Again, an Igbo man investing at START UP stage in an Islamic bank is vastly different from you checking PE ratios, dividend yield etc of a mature company (Walmart) and investing and divesting within 3months
Yes the man may be making the investment for money/profit, but he must believe that it is a venture that has A REASONABLE chance of success.
If he truly believes that it should not be approved, he will hesitate to invest because he may feel that many people will feel the same way and work to scuttle it
We both know that you cannot exit an investment in a start up within 3months unless the entire project is aborted or something extra ordinary happens

mikeansy:

we have all seen this kind of tactic before.

The Sharia Law as stated in the constitution of Nigeria was only as a customary law of choice for those who choose to use it to settle disputes like "inherittance", "marriage" or all kinds of family disputes where all parties to the dispute agree to this kind of law being used. In effect the sharia law was never designed to be binding on any Nigerian whether Muslim or Not.

But what we have seen over the years is the extra-constitutional expansion of the jurisdiction of Sharia law into dealing with criminal issues as well as elevating the law as a State culture/religion which our constitution as is forbids.

This is exactly what will happen if Sanusi's ridiculous religious mantra is allowed to take root. I will not be suprised if what was proposed as an option in existing banks is made the only type of banking available in some sections of Nigeria. What you will now see is expulsion of existing banks from these regions, while only banks willing to operate exclusively as Islamic Banks are allowed to do Business in the North.

So the language of what Sanusi is proposing may not mean anything at this point, what we should be asking is that what is the coded intention of this whole madness by the CBN Governor.

If all he is interested in is a genuine intention to better regulate banking practices. I don't believe you need titles like SHARIA or ISLAMIC Banking to achieve that. You can simply introdce these mechanisms into existing practices to better regulate our banks and there will be no need for this noise. Let no one be fooled into believing any nonsense. We have seen this kind of deception before in Nigeria and I think the Prince of kano is at it again.

If Northerners want to have Sharia everything in the North, then let us have twoo autonomous regions of Nigeria, with devolved powers so that each region can practically do what they like. This kind of islamization of Nigeria through the back door will not work.

There is nothing like Christain Banking in Nigeria, so there wont be anything like islamic Banking. it simply wont fly.

I am surprised you say this. Why have private christian universities (like Maddona) not be made the exclusive system in the SE. Do you really think that Muttalab will support the idea that First Bank should stop charging interest in the North. And pray, tell us where has this type of exclusivity been practised before
Now on a lighter note, which part of the North? The one that voted for your man Jonathan? you want to leave them in the cold now after taking their votes?
We should remember that banking is ultimately a private contract between a bank and its customer which gives the customer a choice
Nobody can force me to buy MTN Sim card if I don't like the company or to open an account with Zenith

REDs house:

will islamic banks employ xtians and will it lend money to non Islam,

as a matter of fact there will be outright discrimination and they will never be regulated cos of the principle of Islam that bound the cbn governor and the promoters of the bank.

what happen to to bank of the north, they never meet the said 25billion recapitalization still soludo approved, later they merge them with unity bank, what is thr performance of unity bank in Nigeria financial system,

abeg make them allow them, i believe say then go die natural death.

Go to Lotus capital in Ikoyi and you will see the number of christians employed there
The last islamic finance course held in lagos, Lotus sent in more christian participants than muslims
These are facts you can check

Why do christians see muslims in their neighbourhood, in schools, at work and relate to them
but as soon as they get onto the net they start talking about them as if they are from Mars

manny4life:


Thanks you! I have asked just about same question; why should Sanusi use the term Islamic or Sharia, why not float it as non-interest. I for one isn't against the concept in Islamic banking but the term used.

Why do you dislike the term Islamic or Sharia

manny4life:

I stressed out that religion or it's phrase should not be linked with business.

Religion is a "protected class" because its a fundamental right of the people have a special attachment to religion just like race and in that case given that people have religious settings, it cannot be discriminated upon therefore it's protected. So when laws or policies particularly to protected class elements like Race, gender (sex), Religion, et al,

I don't understand how u mean by " opposing what muslims want while we don't oppose what you want?" Banking is a central activity which is governed by a federal indigenous agency. You can practice what you want if it's limited to where it's practiced but when that activity is absolved into a central activity, it would create chaos. For instance, Kano state is a Northern state, if the governor wishes to back Islamic banking on a state wide basis through its state of finance, that's a different story, but when the CBN is directly backing using a central banking platform because its a regulatory agency, then there's cause for alarm.


Yeah religion is protected and should not be imposed particularly on a central basis so long it's not limited. If you chose to opt out of BS, I assume it's Bible studies, you would have. I will use the Kano example, I don't know if the state practices Sharia, I'm sure they do, that law applies to all citizens regardless of whatever your religion is because it on a limited basis. My point is individual religious rights are one thing, but when a govt or agency backs a particular motive like Lagos imposing BS on all public school kids, don't u think there will be chaos?

How do u mean by " Why do we think the investors are going to run the biz aground to be bailed out by CBN?"

No one asked the CBN to bail out banks, in a real economy, the federal reserve is the last options for bail out in the case banks are not able to raise money. CBN has been criticized of funding one bank and the other giving them ultimatum meanwhile imposing strict rules restricting these banks to recapitalize.

Christians have been mixing religion with business for long
People write "christian" on their business names in Nigeria. Lanterna is a bookstore. The word christian is in the name. Nobody raised eyebrows.
The only reason we are having this discussion is that for a bank you need to get a licence and the name you use must be approved by CBN
People do fellowship (prayer sessions) all the time in their offices and often invite pastors to officiate
Most times the muslim members of staff are co-opted into such religious service and they cannot opt out
Organisations owned by muslims are more liberal - they don't require christians to join their prayers

manny4life:

Religion is a "protected class" because its a fundamental right of the people have a special attachment to religion just like race and in that case given that people have religious settings, it cannot be discriminated upon therefore it's protected. So when laws or policies particularly to protected class elements like Race, gender (sex), Religion, et al,

I don't understand how u mean by " opposing what muslims want while we don't oppose what you want?" Banking is a central activity which is governed by a federal indigenous agency. You can practice what you want if it's limited to where it's practiced but when that activity is absolved into a central activity, it would create chaos. For instance, Kano state is a Northern state, if the governor wishes to back Islamic banking on a state wide basis through its state of finance, that's a different story, but when the CBN is directly backing using a central banking platform because its a regulatory agency, then there's cause for alarm.

If religion is "protected" why can I not practice without christians saying my ability to do so should be circumscribed

Banking is under exclusive legislative list. States don't formulate monetary policies and so cannot have banking policy
If a state owns a faith-based bank, members of other religions may protest
But what CBN is saying is that we have powers to regulate banking practice
any private entity that wants to set up an Islamic Bank, these are the things you need to do
That in my opinion is better than a state owning banks

manny4life:

Yeah religion is protected and should not be imposed particularly on a central basis so long it's not limited. If you chose to opt out of BS, I assume it's Bible studies, you would have. I will use the Kano example, I don't know if the state practices Sharia, I'm sure they do, that law applies to all citizens regardless of whatever your religion is because it on a limited basis. My point is individual religious rights are one thing, but when a govt or agency backs a particular motive like Lagos imposing BS on all public school kids, don't u think there will be chaos?

How do u mean by " Why do we think the investors are going to run the biz aground to be bailed out by CBN?"

No one asked the CBN to bail out banks, in a real economy, the federal reserve is the last options for bail out in the case banks are not able to raise money. CBN has been criticized of funding one bank and the other giving them ultimatum meanwhile imposing strict rules restricting these banks to recapitalize.

I went to a public school, paid the same fees as my classmates, but
1. was not told I could opt out
2. was not being given any opportunity to learn more about my religion in a state funded school while my christian friends were progressing in their religious studies
3. I would be hanging around like a fugitive when others were in BS class while I should have been in IRS class
Like I said, we all paid the same fees and I had to buy a Bible
Note that it is easy for you to explain this away.
Are you going to be this open-minded when the only subject offered in a public school is IRS and you (a christian) have to buy the Qur'an
Think about it

The notion about sharia being compulsory for everyone is wrong

Who cares what the gayish Assbishops stands,

If jesus was to establish a bank it would have comform with Islamic banking doctrines


This worldy christians always have this Horizontal war with Islam, i wander why, i think they are only jealous and nothing more

Honestly, they are only nervous devils


Islamic Banking it must be called b'coz that is the only name that cannot be adulterated.

Is here and it must reign, take it or leave it

Let us take a small dive to Wikipedia

", The term “Islamic banking” refers to a system of banking or banking activity that is consistent with Islamic law (Shariah) principles and guided by Islamic economics, "

", Islamic banks and banking institutions that offer Islamic banking products and services (IBS banks) are required to establish a Shariah Supervisory Board (SSB) to advise them and to ensure that the operations and activities of the banking institutions comply with Shariah principles. , "

And yet, some sane people expects the Cardinal to keep quite while Shariah is shoved down the throats of every Nigerian in the name of interest free banking! Don't forget that Islamic banking is against the principles of western banking (Haram). The next thing you will hear is that it is being used as a dialoging tool for Boko Haram. I think we dont need to go far to get their sponsors. Notice that Sanusi had told every ear that cares to listen that his ultimate ambition is to become the next Emir of kano (a top religious leader). I bet he is making the fertile moves already!

As for those drawing illogical examples to prove that many Igbos are Muslims, Let me catch you. Igbos are 99.9% non Muslims ok. Most Igbos you see in the Mosque are there for business in my own opinion.

For God's Sake, Nigeria is a secular state as contained in the constitution and as such, any other thing against secularism is unconstitutional. It is high time Christians and peace loving Nigerians to the excesses of these Islamic fundamentalists, KUDOS 2 OKOGIE

For God's Sake, Nigeria is a secular state as contained in the constitution and as such, any other thing against secularism is unconstitutional. It is high time Christians and peace loving Nigerians alike rise up to curb the excesses of these Islamic Fundamentalists, KUDOS TO OKOGIE,OKOH, AND ORITSEJAFOR