macof:


I don't get this I see madness I call it out. .. what you should do is look to yourself and consider why I would say so

actually it's not wild claims. .. anybody with basic anthropology knowledge knows that you decipher the ancient (unrecorded) origins of a people by looking at their language and cultural habits. .. luckily Yoruba has this stacked full in similarity with our southern Nigerian neighbors. .. and just about nothing significant in common with semitic people.

Strangers and observers from outside cannot know more than the owners and posessors of the dynasty under review. What is position of those who inherited Oduduwa crowns, what is their account of origin? In their legends, where did they claim for root?

AjaanaOka:


The thing is "onye" means "person" in Igbo. Singular. Its plural form is "ndi" (persons/people). From what you've written, "ooye" is probably a plural form, and thus doesn't seem to fit all that well. And going by what you said, the meaning is either elusive or hard to define.

Based on your own submission, and what i've been able to gather, "Eniyan" seems to mean the same thing as "onye". You say it means 'man', other sources I've looked at say it means 'person'. Man. Person. Basically the same thing.

Looking at the two words ("onye" and "eniyan" ) it doesn't seem improbable that they could spring from the same root.

Onye is used like "onye yoruba", "onye beribe" i know it's singular but yoruba would not say "eniyan igbo" or Eniyan arindin
(although to draw emphasis one could say "arindin eyan - eyan being contracted from eniyan) It would make more sense if you were saying "Eni" is cognate with "onye"

i dont think the cognacy has to maintain the plural or singular standard
just as Umu is plural in Igbo and Omo is singular in Yoruba
the word that "Onye" evolved from could have been used in plural form as well

considering Ndi and Idile could be cognates...

after thinking what "ooye" meant exactly, I thought people/folks because of "onye", the appearance and pronunciations as well as grammatical function in statements .. it's not like I've done any real research on the matter. . I might have to ask around

Actually "Eni" means person, someone, one .
reason why I said above that Eni is more fitting. . than Eniyan

absoluteSuccess:


Now you are getting smarter at intellectual plaigerism, you don't suppose to sound like your most hated enemy

I believe you dont have the wherewithal to break a Yoruba word, its none of your fort. Dont steal my idea sir.

Where mankind is 'eniyan', what Yoruba phiiosophy does your interpretation aludes to if your interpretation is right?

Or its right because of you?

well it is you that choose to be an enemy...
I really don't get what all this is about but deciphering etymology of words is not a talent that one is just good at, it comes with understanding of the language...I didn't steal anything from you.. unless you are accusing me of stealing your brain

I believe "person assigned" is descriptive enough

macof:




Onye is used like "onye yoruba", "onye beribe" i know it's singular but yoruba would not say "eniyan igbo" or Eniyan arindin
(although to draw emphasis one could say "arindin eyan - eyan being contracted from eniyan) It would make more sense if you were saying "Eni" is cognate with "onye"

i dont think the cognacy has to maintain the plural or singular standard
just as Umu is plural in Igbo and Omo is singular in Yoruba
the word that "Onye" evolved from could have been used in plural form as well

considering Ndi and Idile could be cognates...

after thinking what "ooye" meant exactly, I thought people/folks because of "onye", the appearance and pronunciations as well as grammatical function in statements .. it's not like I've done any real research on the matter. . I might have to ask around

Actually "Eni" means person, someone, one .
reason why I said above that Eni is more fitting. . than Eniyan

Okay, thanks. The bolded is very relevant.

By the way, have you seen Bolaji Aremo's book "How Igbo and Yoruba Became Different Languages"? I checked to see if he has anything to say about this, and I found this:

https://books.google.com.ng/books?id=OiynbBvMblcC&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=eni+onye+aremo&source=bl&ots=m63pzfbmaw&sig=7bcE3XHd-eUdyManS18zWMQH8Z0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj6rqT9z-nPAhXLCJoKHQD-DxYQ6AEIDTAA#v=onepage&q=eni onye aremo&f=false

ImperialYoruba:


Strangers and observers from outside cannot know more than the owners and posessors of the dynasty under review. What is position of those who inherited Oduduwa crowns, what is their account of origin? In their legends, where did they claim for root?

That's how it should be tho. unfortunately, most of the yoruba obas are uninterested...it's only when it comes to supremacy battle you hear them speak history. .certain times with obvious bias

Reason I encourage initiated traditionalists as the best source. ..they know the language better, they are allowed to more knowledge that is often kept in secrecy and mysticism

Just a general thought, not to digress away from the central issue, but Im following the back and forth on cognates and I wonder out loud;. Is it not even more confounding to consider that ENI is more cognisance to ANY (english language) in usage, meaning, letters, sense and pronounciation? In this regard alone it can be said Yoruba and England are sister nations. But such a conclusion would be absurd without additional review into the history, culture, arts, customs,and so on and so forth for each nation as a stand alone subject.

AjaanaOka:


Okay, thanks. The bolded is very relevant.

By the way, have you seen Bolaji Aremo's book "How Igbo and Yoruba Became Different Languages"? I checked to see if he has anything to say about this, and I found this:

https://books.google.com.ng/books?id=OiynbBvMblcC&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=eni+onye+aremo&source=bl&ots=m63pzfbmaw&sig=7bcE3XHd-eUdyManS18zWMQH8Z0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj6rqT9z-nPAhXLCJoKHQD-DxYQ6AEIDTAA#v=onepage&q=eni onye aremo&f=false

nice link. I checked it out and right at my first scroll I noticed "okoro/ikoro" suggested to be cognate with "okunrin"
how would you break down the word "okoro" cus I would say "okunrin" literally means "strong metal" (metal in reference to the bone: equally sacred to the deity Ogun)

Irakoro(Toddler) and/or "Ikoko(new born) comes to mind as a more fitting cognate with "Oko/Okoro/Ikoro"

macof:



nice link. I checked it out and right at my first scroll I noticed "okoro/ikoro" suggested to be cognate with "okunrin"
how would you break down the word "okoro" cus I would say "okunrin" literally means "strong metal" (metal in reference to the bone: equally sacred to the deity Ogun)

Irakoro(Toddler) and/or "Ikoko(new born) comes to mind as a more fitting cognate with "Oko/Okoro/Ikoro"

I don't quite know how to break down "okoro/okolo" (young male). All I can say for certain is that the first part of the word ( that is, "oke-/oko-" ) means "male".

"Okunrin" means "young man", right?

AjaanaOka:


I don't quite know how to break down "okoro/okolo" (young male). All I can say for certain is that the first part of the word ( that is, "oke-/oko-" ) means "male".

"Okunrin" means "young man", right?

no. okunrin means Man ( Male Adult).

there's no word for Young man that I know of, it's just Youth which is "Odo" ... although I'm thinking Ogbeni but that should be just a salutation. .like Mr. but taken to be less formal

and Ako means male in Yoruba, extending to all species

In what ways is the similarity between Yoruba and Ibo languages discredit the claim asserted by OP that Oduduwa is a foreigner whith roots in Canaanite?

“ELA" ELAROWA is the name used in ODU IFA to Connect to the almighty so as to see to the way out of every predicament or future occurrence. “UR" is the ancient Hebrew for heaven and same as Orun . The ancient name which the Yorubas called God was EL dumare /Elidumare /Eledumare/El da/Eleda/Ash da/Asheda. However ,circumstances gave rise to names we called God. Even at ancient times ,Yoruba were called Usere magbo(Perhaps a corrupt name of Israel) ,the largest group who arrived in IFE are Hebrews blood by Yoruba traditions and claim to mid East . Sometimes the truth are bitter but it need to be told. Yoruba aren't Africans,they migrated truly in waves and it dated back before Jesus was born. Although majority f the Yoruba are captured during 6bc-7bc of Medes ,corrupted as Medina in Syria. Just as Nimrod was corrupted as Lamurudu.Yoruba traditions are directly related to ancient Israelites way of worship. Take for instance, who can explain, why the second child in twin is made the older,why do Yoruba prostrate?, why do they believe in divinely king and not by patriarchy?, why do they worship the heads of late great kings in IFE /OYo ?,
...

Ijebu is a coined word for the ancient Yoruba people who engaged in water works for survival. Ije is word in Yoruba which means traveler and Ibu(Mi Labu) is deep sea. This Word was used by Yoruba to relate to themselves who had gone on Seafaring. Till date the word is still been used. The migration of Yoruba were in waves an truly they pass through Egypt, Sudan in the ancient times. I have heard of people saying Yoruba aren't Hebrews because we are blacks. The questions that many of us haven't really answered are.... 1. why do Yoruba have the highest rate of twins in the world?, why do Yoruba don't believe any race is superior to them?, why are they rebellious in nature? Why do Yoruba worship God so deeply? why do Yoruba always believe that nothing can happen with Divine intervention?, Why do Yoruba always look up to Sky for God's help?, what do an average Yoruba have with God to look up to the sky before Christianity/ Islam Came? So many mystery unrevealed yet. Moses married black and many other Jews. So being black has nothing to do with Hebrews claim. Having said these, the mid east have our story in the hand. They have written record of migration during Assyrians /Babylonian periods. That is where our history lies. I don't need to claim being a Jew because I AM A PROUD YORUBA MAN all the way but we need kn
ow how we got to ILE IFE

Lmao . I'd like to meet one of you people one day .... I'm starting to think this is a joke. .like for fun

Tribal marks was alien to “Yorubas" in the ancient times. It was borne out of identification by OyO in that period to put mark on any child /children's against being kidnapped by invaders and also to show affluence,nobility of the family some centuries ago. So people should stop feeling or thinking that Yoruba naturally ascribed to tribal marks. Not all Yoruba have strong facial tribal marks

This is from a book by Richard Edward Deenan sharing background on Yoruba origin as observed by anthropologists and as well chronicled by conscious natives.

The next page.

He goes on to mark the evidence of the Yoruba superiority in West Africa.

Who created this thread? This is great service but im baffled scholars are not already congregated here to discuss the topic.

On my own Im finding materials on this subject online and indeed gaining new knowledge.

macof:
Lmao . I'd like to meet one of you people one day .... I'm starting to think this is a joke. .like for fun

You just confirm what I said in the past that you want to lure me out on whatsapp.

Why on earth would you want to meet a jester in real life?

What will you do to those you see as 'mad' as a man buried in the acts and secrecy of the occult?

Why do you have the air of knowing your oft changing position is the absolute truth?

The name Oduduwa is a name of migrant group that founded Yorubaland.

If you have better story, it shouldn't have anything to do with Oduduwa. We just witness the fall of fallacy from Edo bloc on Oduduwa as Bini outcast.

I will patiently wait till your data become details. But like the now rested myth from edo, you are a joke as always.

absoluteSuccess:


You just confirm what I said in the past that you want to lure me out on whatsapp.

Why on earth would you want to meet a jester in real life?

What will you do to those you see as 'mad' as a man buried in the acts and secrecy of the occult?

Why do you have the air of knowing your oft changing position is the absolute truth?

The name Oduduwa is a name of migrant group that founded Yorubaland.

If you have better story, it shouldn't have anything to do with Oduduwa. We just witness the fall of fallacy from Edo bloc on Oduduwa as Bini outcast.

I will patiently wait till your data become details. But like the now rested myth from edo, you are a joke as always.

ok!

@Absolutesuccess ,the Yoruba history and its complexity is something you need to critically understand its depth to even acknowledged the proper arrangement of the kingship tussle in Ile ife before Oduduwa was acknowledged and accepted as being a king after the existed groups had been merged in Ileife of Yorubaland.

Oduduwa was never from igodomigodo because nothing having to do spiritualism/way of life, beliefs did Yoruba copied from igodomigodo if truly he came from Edo with such magnificent influence not even 10% of Edo language is traceable nor kingly lifestyle to Yorubas. Here are more puzzle to discredit their fallacy, for instance: what is the distance between igodomigodo to Ile ife that ikerladan ozoduwa wouldn't want to go and revenge since he was supposed to be killed?, How all of a sudden a weakling prince became mysteriously powerful in short period? How come he acquire the mystical power and so spiritual within few miles to Ile Ife that he didn't return to Bini?, Why didnt Yoruba know about his Edo ancestral home?, How come he refused to visit Igodomigodo after having a huge followers of Yoruba stock? what crown did they wore in Edoland that is older than ILE IFE's crown? Why didn't he tell Yoruba to bury him in Igodomigodo with his depth knowledge on leadership role? .

The truth is that when Oduduwa reigned as OOni through him, there was Peace and he perfected the kingship monarchical system in a well balanced manner and the Edo heard about it and decided to visiti IFE to ask for the type of kingly system from the reigning Ooni at that period when Igodomigodo had problem and by this, Oranmiyan was sent to Salvage the Town from destruction.

Oduduwa personality remained a typical orisa(hreat ancestor) within Yoruba lifestyle, who are always contented with their own things and don't believe in unnecessary venturing into another people's privacy or territory except Yoruba are First attacked before they go out to defend and subdued their enemies.

As far as information on this is concerned,the man came from middle East, because history of yoruba mentioned him as a descendant of Nimrod(Lamurudu) ,even if it is doubtful information, there is terracotta of Middle East work that support such fact that Yoruba terracotta works is identical with Middle East's. So, Edo people knew nothing like Nimrod and this story had been transferred orally from generation to generation even with its flaws. According one account ,before Odu'a emerged, there were hamlets which people lived and are kings or leaders of each group. And these kings and Odua are not traceable with any sign of them in west Africa. This confirm Yoruba true story from middle East,even with faint memory of it.

The Yoruba were called several names at different times, some were “USERE- MAGBO, ISERI ,AKU , etc . Even Baba Yemi Elebuibon is still alive to tell you more on Yoruba history. However, In Odu Ifa, a lot of hidden ancient Yoruba history is enshrined in it. Apart from these, Arabs had history of those expunged during 6Bc/7Bc during the reign of Assyrians and Babylonians

Invariably Yoruba language is ancient Hebrew /Aramaic. Lastly, in the shrine of Obatala the worship of seven skull of the dead king ancient king as they used to do in the Ancient Israel kingdom is still in practice till today in Ile ife,according to Professor Dierk Lange, but Yoruba won't expose this to the world because of believe in absolute SPIRITUALISM.

@Absolutesuccess ,little do know about Yoruba history and you need to understand the depth of Yoruba knowledge to even acknowledged the proper arrangement of the kingship tussle in Ile ife before Oduduwa was acknowledged and accepted as being a king after the dynasty of omri in Yorubaland.Oduduwa was never from igodomigodo because nothing having to do spiritualism/way of life, beliefs did Yoruba copied from igodimogido if truly he came from Edo with such magnificent influence not even 10% of Edo language is traceable nor kingly lifestyle . Here are more puzzle to discredit their fallacy, what is the distance between igodomigodo to Ile ife that ikerladan ozoduwa wouldn't want to go and revenge since he was supposed to be killed?,How all of a sudden a weakling prince became mysteriously powerful in short period? how come he acquire the mystical power and so spiritual within few miles to Ile Ife that he didn't return to Bini?, Why didnt Yoruba know about his Edo ancestral home?, How come he refused to visit Igodomigodo after having a huge followers of Yoruba stock? what crown did they wore in Edoland that is older than ILE IFE crown?why didn't he tell Yoruba to bury him in Igodomigodo with his depth knowledge on leadership role? .The truth is that when Oduduwa reigned as OOni through him, there was Peace and he perfected the kingship title in a well balanced manner and perhaps the Edo heard about it and decided to ask him to also control their territory which the man refused on several occasions but later accepted to help them by sending his son Oranmiyan to Salvage the Town from destruction.Oduduwa personality was a normal orisa Yoruba lifestyle, who are always content with their own things and don't believe in unnecessary venturing into another people's privacy or territory except Yoruba are First attacked before they go out to defend and subdued their enemies.The man came from middle East, because he mentioned Nimrod(Lamurudu).Edo people knew nothing like Nimrod and this so story had been transferred orally from generation to generation. Before Odu'a there was a dynasty called omri and there were 16 rulers before Oduduwa and non of these kings or one woman regent that you and I or anyone can see any traceable sign of them in west Africa. This confirm Yoruba true story from mid East. Yoruba names being called at one time was “USERE- MAGBO. Baba Yemi Elebuibon is still alive to tell you more on Yoruba history. However, In Odu Ifa, a lot of hidden ancient Yoruba history is enshrined in it. Apart from these, Arabs had history of those expunged during 6Bc/7Bc during the reign of Assyrians and Babylonians. Yoruba language is ancient Hebrew /Aramaic even if it now graded as niger-Congo language,they may try to rewrite our history but the truth prevails always . Lastly, in the shrine of Obatala the worship of seven skull of the dead king ancient as they used to do in the Ancient Israel kingdom is still in practice till today in Ile ife but Yoruba won't expose this to the world because of believe in absolute SPIRITUALISM

Lets focus on the topic of Oduduwa origin and not bring in Edo issue here.

Focusing on Oduduwa ,it is a simple issue but intriguing. The man mentioned that he came from Middle East and he mentioned Lamurudu (Nimrod). From historians perspective,specifically Europeans,in their research made findings that people migrated from middle East to west Africa at different time and most of these bulks included Israelites, arameans,kittites,babylonians,etc and which lasted for scores of decades. At the top me Oduduwa arrived, there thirteen towns at Ile Ife and at that time Obatala existed, Obalufon ,osaganya or osagangan and many more included IFA Oracle etc existed. Oduduwa arrived and he told them that he too was from Far East who claimed that there was uprising and they killed his father in the war. What is more paramount here is that he mentioned (Lamurudu) Nimrod and Abraim according to Oyo account but nothing much was said about Nimrod apart from the fact that he mentioned him and that he came from East. It was during his reign there was proper coordination in Yoruba land

ImperialYoruba:
The next page.

you dnt realize how that Screenshot is racist? proposing that blacks are inferior to semitic people
so you actually believe semites are some sort of master race and the yoruba must descend from such mastery?

ImperialYoruba:
Who created this thread? This is great service but im baffled scholars are not already congregated here to discuss the topic.

On my own Im finding materials on this subject online and indeed gaining new knowledge.

The screen shot here calls Africans savages incapable of having concepts of repentance, sanctification, justification


do you really believe this?

Olu317:
Yoruba names being called at one time was “USERE- MAGBO. Baba Yemi Elebuibon is still alive to tell you more on Yoruba history

Where did you hear from Baba Elebuibon that oduduwa came from the middle east? I will like to read/hear his own words


PS. Oseremagbo is Obatala

macof:



you dnt realize how that Screenshot is racist? proposing that blacks are inferior to semitic people
so you actually believe semites are some sort of master race and the yoruba must descend from such mastery?

We can discuss political grandstanding later and rank races based on evolutionary structures but thats not what this topic is about. Unless Im misunderstanding and reading the OP wrong.

The topic is about a people and their pride of origin. The screenshots are chronicles of the specialists in the field of anthropology and data analysis.

It is human to discriminate, Yoruba is not immuned from racism, it claims superiority even till today. So it is quite expected that others will attempt to claim their own superiority, implicitly or explicitly. Life is dynamic.

macof:


The screen shot here calls Africans savages incapable of having concepts of repentance, sanctification, justification


do you really believe this?

Please, analyze critically if you are looking for truth. I cannot deny you the right to express your emotions and passions but try not to inject it insultingly and offend senses.

I believe I am open to read and understand your personal opinion, but I cant accomodate attempts to interprete the author under a shade of biases.

ImperialYoruba:


Please, analyze critically if you are looking for truth. I cannot deny you the right to express your emotions and passions but try not to inject it insultingly and offend senses.

I believe I am open to read and understand your personal opinion, but I cant accomodate attempts to interprete the author under a shade of biases.

but you saw that was the main point of the screen shot? that because yorubas have concepts of repentance, sanctification and justification which true black Africans are not capable of having, being savage, therefore yoruba are not true Africans but descended from Semites

did you not get that from the screen shot. .or I'm reading something else?

Useremagbo was once the name the people of ife were called, where on earth did you think Yoruba's gbo, igbo, ugbo came out from if Obatala was the one addressed as oseremagbo. Having said, let's us now apply wisdom from the depth of yoruba's understanding, Oduduwa dislodged Obatala as the new leader, there after we were called different names until the adoption of the descendants of Oduduwa. If logic works then perhaps, the change in power of the leadership brought about the new name we are addressed presently . Then I gave a deep and deeper thought to understand the style and the name of Oduduwa, the name itself was coined because according to oral history, the ife spiritualist of IFA occult brought 'bout Odu-du-wa ( ODU-DA-UWA/IWA)which was a bit different from the way the man's name were told to be called, ranging from Adah or Aadu or Adua or Dua or Dan. In all of these logic application,one out these names may be synonym with the way his name was pronounced . However the people of IFE/UFE seemed to had loved him the because he was a good man and a great leader from all perspective. He was initiated into cult groups at ILE IFE,even mended fences with Obatala .So if we are now been addressed as children of Odu'a, then it is self explanatory. Then on Baba Yemi Elebuibon ,he knows deep about Yoruba history and very deep IFA priest, who will affirm to it as Yoruba being called Useremagbo and near East theory. Part of this theory is also enshrined ODU IFA.. Have we even check who ORUNMILA( ur-mu- ela)(Orun -mo -eni -ma-la )( the heavens know who shall succeed) Was?,.lastly equip yourself with books such as.... Johnson ( Yoruba history from earliest time), Hess(L ' â nègre) 1898:164-166, Oates (Fall of Assyrians)1991:168,170,174f,Dierk Lange (ancient kingdom of West Africa. Africa-centred and Canaanite -Israelites perspective, Origin of Yoruba and “the lost tribe of Israelites". Read these books and see if Yoruba is speaking the truth or not about their history relating to Middle East.

macof:


but you saw that was the main point of the screen shot? that because yorubas have concepts of repentance, sanctification and justification which true black Africans are not capable of having, being savage, therefore yoruba are not true Africans but descended from Semites

did you not get that from the screen shot. .or I'm reading something else?

The bold is your conclusion. Rev. Bowen made no mention of Semites. Yoruba origin has been traced to attributes in diverse races and cultures between Europe and Asia.

By this remark generally he was lending credence to conclusions on Yoruba origin. He gave us a scale, where he said in the civilized society and of Christians, knowledge of a higher religion is limited and only amongst a very few. He was shocked to find in a land populated by savages a race of people learned in divine code. He called it impossible!

In other words, these are implants from a much civilized background than the civilized Christians back in his country or the savages he found them cohabiting with.