tctrills:
1.Beautiful, I like how you finally put it. All those who reject the word of God are going to hell. All sinners are going to hell. So why have you been confuse? They would be resurrected before they go to hell na. Now you have proven it does not matter if you are of the church or not as long as you are a sinner, you are going to hell. We finally agree.

2m As much as I enjoy your argument, Its dependent on lots of assumption. So rather than doing this back and front, we could simple believe Jesus when he says
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

3. He did not say all my sheep and goats because he does not have goats, he has only sheep

1. Try to Pay attention to what I infact said. I said all those who refuse to obey the commandments of Jesus Christ aka the goats as described in Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46

A sinner is anyone who, though under God’s Law, refuses still to obey God's teachings and commandments. And as Jesus Christ explained, these are the one's who enter the Kingdom of God through the broad Gate, the seeds planted in God's field by the enemy, the foolish brides who refuse to take along extra oil, the servants to the master who bury the talents they have been given rather than use it to make profit for the master. :-

2. You made the assumptions since I continue instead to repeat that taught by Jesus Christ instead.

3. Again, John said all sheep's but Matthew separated them into goats and sheep.

[quote author=Kobojunkie post=112154623]1. Try to Pay attention to what I infact said. I said all those who refuse to obey the commandments of Jesus Christ aka the goats as described in Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46

A sinner is anyone who, though under God’s Law, refuses still to obey God's teachings and commandments. strange definition again not based in the bible. You are saying that if a non Christian steals, it is no sin.
Leviticus 5:17

17 "If a person sins, and commits any of these things which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of the Lord, though he does not know it, yet he is guilty and shall bear his iniquity.
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

2. You made the assumptions since I continue instead to repeat that taught by Jesus Christ instead. I was not the one that assumed that goats are sheep.. it was you.

3. Again, John said all sheep's but Matthew separated them into goats and sheep. This doesn't make any sense. would you now force bad grammar on us just to sell your point? How is a goat now a sheep. Matthew was in line with John. Matthew said the sheep are his not the goat. read verse 32.

Again, John said all sheep's but Matthew separated them into goats and sheep. You started your argument with John. When you realized that John was speaking about the sheep, you switched over to Matthew. There again we saw that the sheep were Christ's but not the goat. Then you switched to the 5 virgins claiming they most be the very same goats. Again I showed to you that they are not the same. Finally you said all sinners are goats. Are you now saying that none Christians do not commit sin? Because they actually do.

tctrills:
1. strange definition again not based in the bible. You are saying that if a non Christian steals, it is no sin.
Leviticus 5:17

17 "If a person sins, and commits any of these things which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of the Lord, though he does not know it, yet he is guilty and shall bear his iniquity.
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

2. You made the assumptions since I continue instead to repeat that taught by Jesus Christ instead. I was not the one that assumed that goats are sheep.. it was you.

3. This doesn't make any sense. would you now force bad grammar on us just to sell your point? How is a goat now a sheep. Matthew was in line with John. Matthew said the sheep are his not the goat. read verse 32.

1. God's Old Covenant Law of Moses which you quoted from applies to all the descendants of descendants of Jacob - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20 - not Christians. Anyone who has the blood of Jacob coursing through his veins that refuses to obey the Old Law is a sinner by the standard set by that Law.

2 and 3. I already more than explained this at this point.

God's Old Covenant Law of Moses which you quoted from applies to all the descendants of descendants of Jacob - [b]Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20 - not Christians. Anyone who has the blood of Jacob coursing through his veins that refuses to obey the Old Law is a sinner by the standard set by that Law.[/b] Your definition of sin is not in the bible. Even non Christians commit sin.
I advise you read the bible more to understand what sin is.
Why did God punish king Nebuchadnezzar? was he a Jew?
Why did God send Jonah to ask the city of Nineveh to repent were they Jews.
Why did God punish Cain? was he a Jew?

2 and 3. I already more than explained this at this point. I am sure you think you have, lets not over flog it

A sinner is anyone who, though under God’s Law, refuses still to obey God's teachings and commandments. And as Jesus Christ explained, these are the one's who enter the Kingdom of God through the broad Gate, the seeds planted in God's field by the enemy, the foolish brides who refuse to take along extra oil, the servants to the master who bury the talents they have been given rather than use it to make profit for the master. :-
I just remembered this.. You seem to be saying that the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were innocent. They were not under God's law. Why then did God destroy them? Does God punish the innocent? Please you need to update you definition of sin.

Again you keep misquoting Christ, He never said you enter the Kingdom of God through the broad Gate. The broad gate leads to hell and not to the Kingdom of God. Please read your bible if you are not sure.
3 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
It never said the broad way leads to God's Kingdom please don't add to the bible.

tctrills:
1. I just remembered this.. You seem to be saying that the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were innocent. They were not under God's law. Why then did God destroy them? Does God punish the innocent? Please you need to update you definition of sin.

2. Again you keep misquoting Christ, He never said you enter the Kingdom of God through the broad Gate. The broad gate leads to hell and not to the Kingdom of God. Please read your bible if you are not sure.It never said the broad way leads to God's Kingdom please don't add to the bible.

Try to avoid putting words in my mouth please.

1. Where there is no law there is no judgment, right? God's judgement against Sodom and Gomorrah is based on God's Law, albeit not directly revealed but He judged Sodom and Gomorrah, Canaan, the Hittite Nation, the Moabites, Tyre and Siddon, Philstines etc., by His standard and Law. That He did not reveal these standards/Laws to us does not mean their are none.

2. According to Jesus Christ, you must be born-again in order to ENTER into the Kingdom of God. The same Jesus Christ also taught His disciples that there are 2 possible entry points - the Broad Gate which leaves to destruction and the narrow Gate which leads to true life - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14.

In Luke 13, Jesus Christ urges those who will follow Him to ENTER(into the Kingdom of God) not through the Broad Gate but through the Narrow/strait gate instead.

1. Where there is no law there is no judgment, right? God's judgement against Sodom and Gomorrah is based on God's Law, albeit not directly revealed but He judged Sodom and Gomorrah, Canaan, the Hittite Nation, the Moabites, Tyre and Siddon, Philstines etc., by His standard and Law. That He did not reveal these standards/Laws to us does not mean their are none.
Funny you. now you are writing your new bible.

2. According to Jesus Christ, you must be born-again in order to [b]ENTER into the Kingdom of God. The same Jesus Christ also taught His disciples that there are 2 possible entry points - the Broad Gate which leaves to destruction and the narrow Gate which leads to true life - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14.
[/b]
Jesus did not say that the broad way leads to his kingdom nah. It leads to hell not the kingdom of God.

In [b]Luke 13, Jesus Christ urges those who will follow Him to ENTER(into the Kingdom of God) not through the Broad Gate but through the Narrow/strait gate instead.[/b] Here you are right, the broad way leads away from his kingdom not to his kingdom

tctrills:
1. Funny you. now you are writing your new bible.

2. Jesus did not say that the broad way leads to his kingdom nah. It leads to hell not the kingdom of God.

3. Here you are right, the broad way leads away from his kingdom not to his kingdom

1. Funny? There ain't nothing funny about God's judgement until you are attempting here to accuse God of unjust judgements ?

2. Um.... Hell is a part of the Kingdom of God, so also is Heaven.

3. Again, being born-again means one Enters into the Kingdom of God through either of 2 gates - the Broad Gate or the Narrow Gate.

tctrills:
Many Christians love to blame Adam for the bringing in sin to the world but we forget that just like Adam, we all sin and fall short of the glory. We all have disobeyed at one time or the other and we would have acted the very same way Adam acted. So rather than blame Adam be grateful because the transgression of Adam led to the coming of Christ.
Also, because of Adam's sin, we have knowledge of Good and bad.

All these stupid Christians that would never own up to their own sins, always pointing fingers for their wrong doings. If its not the devil it's one evil spirit. Nonsense creatures.

Well if one really looks deep into this, the argument boils down to free will vs fate.

Christian's claims their God knows everything and has a grand plan, so whatever action or thought anyone does is all part of God's plan which in turn means no one can be blame for their transgressions since they are just doing the will of God. But this same useless god still goes around issuing punishment likes as though he didn't know people would sin.

The sooner everyone realise there's no God, the better for us all

suicidesheep:


All these stupid Christians that would never own up to their own sins, always pointing fingers for their wrong doings. If its not the devil it's one evil spirit. Nonsense creatures.

Well if one really looks deep into this, the argument boils down to free will vs fate.

Christian's claims their God knows everything and has a grand plan, so whatever action or thought anyone does is all part of God's plan which in turn means no one can be blame for their transgressions since they are just doing the will of God. But this same useless god still goes around issuing punishment likes as though he didn't know people would sin.

The sooner everyone realise there's no God, the better for us all

I don't know you, we are not fighting but you sound so rude and angry. What is troubling you?

Funny? There ain't nothing funny about God's judgement until you are attempting here to accuse God of unjust judgements ? : No I am accusing you of writing a new bible.


2. Um.... Hell is a part of the Kingdom of God, so also is Heaven. That's your personal opinion not God's word. He never said hell was an extension of his kingdom.
3. Again, being born-again means one [b]Enters into the Kingdom of God through either of 2 gates - the Broad Gate or the Narrow Gate. [/b] Jesus Christ never said this. You assume many strange things but its ok. Must Christian groups add lots of strange beliefs into God's words. The modern day Christians have become very creative in twisting the word of God.

tctrills:
1. No I am accusing you of writing a new bible.

2. That's your personal opinion not God's word. He never said hell was an extension of his kingdom.

3. Jesus Christ never said this. You assume many strange things but its ok. Must Christian groups add lots of strange beliefs into God's words. The modern day Christians have become very creative in twisting the word of God.

1. Stating what God Himself said He did is akin to writing my own bible? OK.

2. So, What Jesus Christ said of coming in the glory of the Kingdom of God to judge all, sending some to Heaven and others to Hell is also an opinion of mine, right- Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46 ? OK.

3. Jesus Christ never said you have to be born- again to Enter into the Kingdom of God, urging you Enter in through the Narrow Gate instead of the Broad Gate - John 3. Vs 1 - 8 & Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 & Luke 13 vs 22 - 30? OK

Stating what God Himself said He did is akin to writing my own bible? OK. You never stated what the bible said na.

2. So, What Jesus Christ said of coming in the glory of the Kingdom of God to judge all, sending some to Heaven and others to Hell is also an opinion of mine, right- You are right Jesus said that he never said hell was part of his kingdom. your own addition.

3.[b] Jesus Christ never said you have to be born- again to Enter into the Kingdom of God, urging you Enter in through the Narrow Gate instead of the Broad Gate[/b]He said we should be born again and he told us that the broad gate does not lead to his kingdom. let me quote the verse here to prove you are wrong.
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Where did you come about that the broad way leads to his kingdom.
No single translation of the bible states that the broad way leads to the kingdom. Its a very personal but incorrect doctrine

If I did not quote the verses one may think what you were saying is in the bible

tctrills:
1. You never stated what the bible said na.

2. You are right Jesus said that he never said hell was part of his kingdom. your own addition.

3. He said we should be born again and he told us that the broad gate does not lead to his kingdom. let me quote the verse here to prove you are wrong.
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Where did you come about that the broad way leads to his kingdom.
No single translation of the bible states that the broad way leads to the kingdom. Its a very personal but incorrect doctrine

If I did not quote the verses one may think what you were saying is in the bible

1. God didn't say He judged Sodom and Gomorrah, Canaanites etc according to His standard? OK

2. So what is written or in Matthew 25 vs 40 - 46 is my addition to scripture? OK.

3. Jesus Christ told you the broad gate does not lead to the Kingdom of God? Look whose clearly adding his delusions to what is written.

My question again to you was this......Jesus Christ never said you have to be born- again to Enter into the Kingdom of God, urging you Enter in through the Narrow Gate instead of the Broad Gate - John 3. Vs 1 - 8 & Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 & Luke 13 vs 22 - 30? OK

God didn't say He judged Sodom and Gomorrah, Canaanites etc according to His standard? You are shifting the goal post. You claimed that Gods commands are only for his followers hence non believers are do not sin. I pointed out Sodom and Gomorah to prove that all mankind would be judged by God's standards and even non believers commit sin so stop playing games. You understood me fully.

2. So what is written or in Matthew 25 vs 40 - 46 is my addition to scripture? OK. [/b]What was written is contrary to your opinions
[b]
3. Jesus Christ told you the broad gate does not lead to the Kingdom of God? Look whose clearly adding his delusions to what is written. [/quote]
I just quoted the verse word for word. It never said the broad gate lead to his kingdom where did you get that from.

tctrills:
You are shifting the goal post. You claimed that Gods commands are only for his followers hence non believers are do not sin. I pointed out Sodom and Gomorah to prove that all mankind would be judged by God's standards and even non believers commit sin so stop playing games. You understood me fully..

As I said, and I repeat, God's given Law is as given by God to those He gives them to. The Old Covenant was given by God to those who have the blood of Jacob coursing through their veins - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 30 ; God's New Covenant was given by God to individuals who will accept and Obey Jesus Christ - Matthew 26 vs 28 - 30 . These are laws God chose to hand to individuals, directing that they would be saved by their obedience.

In the case of Nations such as Sodom and Gomorrah, Moabites, Hittites etc. Which God destroyed, it is recorded that God judged those nations but not recorded that God's Judgement was based on Laws handed down by God to any of those peoples.

So what part of what I have stated here shifts goalposts or writes new bible for you?

tctrills:

I just quoted the verse word for word. It never said the broad gate lead to his kingdom where did you get that from.

None of the verses also directly states that the Narrow Gate lead to the Kingdom of God..

Instead what they make clear, what I keep repeating over and over here is that one must be born again to Enter into the Kingdom of God. And according to Jesus Christ, there are two gates to enter through- a broad gate which leads to destruction and a second gate which leads to life - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 & Luke 13 vs 22 - 30 & John 3 vs 1 - 8.

As I said, and I repeat, God's given Law is as given by God to those He gives them to. The Old Covenant was given by God to those who have the blood of Jacob coursing through their veins
Sodom and Gomorrah were they of the blood of Jacob? Was Nineveh of the blood of Jacob? Was King Nebuchadnezzar of the blood of Jacob? Cant you see how wrong you are?
- Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 30 ; God's New Covenant was given by God to individuals who will accept and Obey Jesus Christ - Matthew 26 vs 28 - 30 . These are laws God chose to hand to individuals, directing that they would be saved by their obedience. 28 This is my blood of the[a] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

30 When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.
You keep say stuff not supported by the verses you quote. You notice I post the verses word for word.

In the case of Nations such as Sodom and Gomorrah, Moabites, Hittites etc. Which God destroyed, it is recorded that God judged those nations but not recorded that God's Judgement was based on Laws handed down by God to any of those peoples. So you know, why then are you adding to the scripture?

So what part of what I have stated here shifts goalposts or writes new bible for you?

Kobojunkie:
None of the verses also directly states that the Narrow Gate lead to the Kingdom of God.. [/b]Ok so because none of the verses state that the narrow gate leads to the kingdom of God, You now assumed that the broad must lead to Gods kingdom. That makes so much sense.

Instead what they make clear, what I keep repeating over and over here is that one must be born again to [b]Enter into the Kingdom of God. And according to Jesus Christ, there are two gates to enter through- a broad gate which leads to destruction and a second gate which leads to life - [b]Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 & Luke 13 vs 22 - 30 & John 3 vs 1 - 8.

[/b]
Jesus did not say that the broad gate leads to his kingdom. Not a single verse says so.
Read this verse and learn the will of God.
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
The broad way does not lead to his kingdom

Kobojunkie:
None of the verses also directly states that the Narrow Gate lead to the Kingdom of God..

Instead what they make clear, what I keep repeating over and over here is that one must be born again to Enter into the Kingdom of God. And according to Jesus Christ, there are two gates to enter through- a broad gate which leads to destruction and a second gate which leads to life - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 & Luke 13 vs 22 - 30 & John 3 vs 1 - 8.

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.”
This is how to enter the kingdom not through the broad way

Kobojunkie:
None of the verses also directly states that the Narrow Gate lead to the Kingdom of God..

Instead what they make clear, what I keep repeating over and over here is that one must be born again to Enter into the Kingdom of God. And according to Jesus Christ, there are two gates to enter through- a broad gate which leads to destruction and a second gate which leads to life - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 & Luke 13 vs 22 - 30 & John 3 vs 1 - 8.

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 7:21
God's kingdom is not for the sinners

Kobojunkie:
None of the verses also directly states that the Narrow Gate lead to the Kingdom of God..

Instead what they make clear, what I keep repeating over and over here is that one must be born again to Enter into the Kingdom of God. And according to Jesus Christ, there are two gates to enter through- a broad gate which leads to destruction and a second gate which leads to life - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 & Luke 13 vs 22 - 30 & John 3 vs 1 - 8.

Matthew 25:34

“Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

The sheep inherit the kingdom not the goat.

tctrills:
[/b]
Jesus did not say that the broad gate leads to his kingdom. Not a single verse says so.
Read this verse and learn the will of God.
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
The broad way does not lead to his kingdom

If you paid close attention to what is written in Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46, you may begin to see in new light what Paul is saying there.

Those who will inherit(reward) are those who are ushered into Heaven whereas those ushered into Hell recieve punishment instead. So Paul's opinion here is not against that which Jesus Christ said on this..

Kobojunkie:
None of the verses also directly states that the Narrow Gate lead to the Kingdom of God..

Instead what they make clear, what I keep repeating over and over here is that one must be born again to Enter into the Kingdom of God. And according to Jesus Christ, there are two gates to enter through- a broad gate which leads to destruction and a second gate which leads to life - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 & Luke 13 vs 22 - 30 & John 3 vs 1 - 8.

Romans 14:17

for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
The kingdom is only for the righteous

Kobojunkie:
If you paid close attention to what is written in Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46, you may begin to see in new light what Paul is saying there.

Those who will inherit(reward) are those who are ushered into Heaven whereas those ushered into Hell recieve punishment instead. So Paul's opinion here is not against that which Jesus Christ said on this..

Paul and Jesus were teaching the same thing. the goats would not be allowed into the kingdom. The kingdom is for the sheep. Hell is not the kingdom of God.
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Paul and Jesus are teaching the very same thing

tctrills:

Matthew 25:34

“Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

The sheep inherit the kingdom not the goat.

The goats are meant for punishment not inheritance of course.

tctrills:

Romans 14:17

for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
The kingdom is only for the righteous

These diversions don't add or change any of what Jesus Christ said. So no need for them.

tctrills:
1. Paul and Jesus were teaching the same thing. the goats would not be allowed into the kingdom. The kingdom is for the sheep. Hell is not the kingdom of God.

2. Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Paul and Jesus are teaching the very same thing

Nowhere does Jesus Christ say any of what you claim of the goats nor does He tell you that Hell is not a part of the Kingdom of God, a Kingdom ruled over by Him.

In Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46, Jesus Christ more than proves Himself ruler over what is the Heaven and Hell by His Judgement- a Kingdom ruled over by Him in all ramifications.

Nowhere does Jesus Christ say any of what you claim of the goats nor does He tell you that Hell is not a part of the Kingdom of God, a Kingdom ruled over by Him.
He made it clear in that his kingdom is for the righteous and the obedient.

Jesus Christ more than proves Himself ruler over what is the Heaven and Hell by His Judgement- a Kingdom ruled over by Him in all ramifications. [/quote] He never claimed to rule of hell. Not in the bible

Kobojunkie:
These diversions don't add or change any of what Jesus Christ said. So no need for them.

You keep rejecting the word of God for your opinion

Kobojunkie:
The goats are meant for punishment not inheritance of course.

So you know they do not inherit the kingdom of God so why did you say that the broad way would lead them to the kingdom?