^^

So tell me, dude, what's the differece between OT and NT if you have a right to "suffer not witches to live" today. Plus tell me what the difference is between you and the pastors in that video if your hatred of the concept that God exists demands you say witches should be killed since that is what you saw written?

Dude, wake up - "we" have moved forward but to find support, you needs must live in the past and find a prop in insisting that theology from 5000 years ago is cogent today even when there is clear dissent with that in Scripture.

Basically then, remove vacuous hungry dimwits like our hungry "pastor jo" and suddenly, all of you supposedly refined atheists find yourself without a clue - you need Joagbaje's theology to mock Christianity.

Btw dude, I do NOT follow man - kindly expunge your allusions to agreement with bishops or pastors etc. This is personal but then, since you NEED to support Jo to mock God, I guess your scholarship does not extend past searching the web for support from others like his empty self and yourself.

Not all of us have such little self-confidence.

In the meantime here is a contradiction as typical of "pastor" Joagbaje.

Joagbaje:

Two common ways children get into it. Is through food or dedication. They do their own evangelism as we do ours. When they give a child such things his soul lust after. (a cursed food). The child finds himself in the coven in their midst at night. The next thing is not try and initiate the child by drinking blood. On the drinking of the blood ,the initiation takes place. Demons will enter into them. It is this demons that make such a child do wicked things. Some have killed family members,destroyed pregnancies ,ground vehicles, business . And all manner of wickedness you can imagine. The child is actually "inocent" or rather a victim as well. The demons needs a body to operate. Some children on their own will open up when an anointed minister talks with them. Because some of them wants to come out of it but fear hold them back.They usually  give them fearful instructions, like "YOU WILL DIE IF YOU TELL ANYONE"

It's not just children . This thing doesn't know age. You can dictect some of them by their action. Some do certain physical wicked things . When a christian counsellor talks with them in love ,they may open up. You will be amazed to hear a little child give specific dates of events in the family ,how many people he has killed or made sick , one made a little baby sick ,he confessed and said he put something in the baby and that if he removes it ,the baby will be well , he did ,and the baby who had been sick for days instantly became. Well.

Some people know them by discernment also. Like paul did

Acts 16:17-18
. . .  The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. 18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her And he came out the same hour.

Simeon others are dictected when the spirits manifest in them during prayers. or in an atmosphere where the anointing of Gods spirit is at work.

Of course I don't.  The children are not the enemy. At the same time we can't deny the fact of wrong accusations among certain feshly people. But for the children who are into this thing, they are not the enemy .The witchcraft spirit or demons in them is the enemy .To help such, we ought to first love such children, The first deliverance is salvation . Sharing the message of Gids love to them , and assuring them that they won't die if they come out of it.  Most of the time after being born again , there is instant freedom. But in case the child still experience them you may need to cast the devil out by simply using the name of Jesus. Sometimes the spirit will even shout through such person saying "THIS IS MY HOUSE,LEAVVE US ALONE. HE/SHE BELONGS TO ME". "I WILL KILL HIM" etc

The "pastor" says the first "deliverance" is "salvation". Meanwhile the apostle Paul didn't follow this idea in the example that the "pastor" himself had first given of Acts 16; the apostle was irritated and simply commanded the spirit to leave; he did not first do "deliverance" of "salvation" for the girl. In fact, if you read the passage further, you will see that the owners of the girl picked a fight with Paul & co, got them beaten up and thrown into prison.

^^

Which is part of why such as Martian glorify in Jo and use him as a prop. Contradictions
, lies, self-serving moronic postulations and ignorance disguised as scholarship all in a bid to mystify and thus seem special.

An enemy from within does help the effort of the thief coming from outside as the yoruba say

nuclearboy:

^^

So tell me, dude, what's the differece between OT and NT if you have a right to "suffer not witches to live" today. Plus tell me what the difference is between you and the pastors in that video if your hatred of the concept that God exists demands you say witches should be killed since that is what you saw written?
Dude, wake up - "we" have moved forward but to find support, you needs must live in the past and find a prop in insisting that theology from 5000 years ago is cogent today even when there is clear dissent with that in Scripture.
Basically then, remove vacuous hungry dimwits like our hungry "pastor jo" and suddenly, all of you supposedly refined atheists find yourself without a clue - you need Joagbaje's theology to mock Christianity.
Btw dude, I do NOT follow man - kindly expunge your allusions to agreement with bishops or pastors etc. This is personal but then, since you NEED to support Jo to mock God, I guess your scholarship does not extend past searching the web for support from others like his empty self and yourself.
Not all of us have such little self-confidence.

What's the difference between the OT and the NT?  I don't see a lot of differences, they are both the words of God right?

Exodus 22 18 still stands because of Matthew 5 17.
Do not suffer a witch to leave is part of the old law and since Jesus didn't come to abolish those laws, those child witches should be dealt with appropriately.

The differences between me and the pastors are numerous but the pertinent one is that I'm not ignorant so I don't actually believe gods or demons exist talkless of witches and wizards.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems you do not believe everything in your Bible!

nuclearboy:

^^

Dude, wake up - "we" have moved forward but to find support, you needs must live in the past and find a prop in insisting that theology from 5000 years ago is cogent today even when there is clear dissent with that in Scripture.

Dude, I'm wide awake- So what you're are saying is that some parts of the bible from "5000" years ago are no longer valid?

Sorry if i gave an impression that you follow "man". Of course you interpret the bible yourself through the grace of God and the impartation of the holy spirit but I should also say that Pastor JoAgbaje does the same thing. So if your intepretation leads you to disagree with Joagbaje, he can also disagree with you and as an outsider, I can only refer to the book that's central to your faith and Joagbaje's fundamental intepretation lines up with what's in the book.

I'm not mocking God, I'm just saying that Jo is the christian whose interpretation I agree with because he is supported by the bible.  Besides, children were killed all willy nilly in the bible so i don't think God has a problem with these child witches being killed.

nuclearboy:

^^

Which is part of why such as Martian glorify in Jo and use him as a prop. Contradictions
, lies, self-serving moronic postulations and ignorance disguised as scholarship all in a bid to mystify and thus seem special.

An enemy from within does help the effort of the thief coming from outside as the yoruba say

Ah, I actually (forgot) wanted to add that, talking about 5000 years old theology, did the apostle "put the girl to death" as the poster quoted from Leviticus?

Of course not --- anybody who is honest and who knows anything about Christianity knows that that is not Christian theology. That example of Paul was a demonstration of how Christianity handles these things (in spirit and power) ------- just as Jesus Himself did.

Enigma:

Ah, I actually (forgot) wanted to add that, talking about 5000 years old theology, did the apostle "put the girl to death" as the poster quoted from Leviticus?

Of course not --- anybody who is honest and who knows anything about Christianity knows that that is not Christian theology. That example of Paul was a demonstration of how Christianity handles these things (in spirit and power) ------- just as Jesus Himself did.

So Leviticus is no longer relevant? Only certain parts of the old testament should be obeyed?

^^^ Christians know its place; anyone else who is interested should first take their time to learn and be informed about its place.

Enigma:

^^^ Christians know its place; anyone else who is interested should first take their time to learn and be informed about its place.

Apparently, they don't. That's the only reason I can deduct from the constant disagreements that typifies christianity. The question still remains. Are certain parts of the old testament now null and void? If so, who chooses the parts that are now irrelevant? Does God approve?

OK then; if you think so.

Enigma:

^^^ Christians know its place; anyone else who is interested should [b]first take their time to learn and be informed about its place[/b].

Ok

Martian:

Apparently, they don't. That's the only reason I can deduct from the constant disagreements that typifies christianity. The question still remains. Are certain parts of the old testament now null and void? If so, who chooses the parts that are now irrelevant? Does God approve?

So I asked.

Enigma:

OK then; if you think so.

Enigma:

^^^ Christians know its place; [size=14pt]anyone else who is interested should first take their time to learn and be informed about its place.

[/size]

Well, I'm interested!!!!!!

What parts of the old testament should be ignored? Who chooses the parts to be disregarded? And has God communicated through anybody to let christians know if he apporves of them disregarding his infallible words?

You say "5000" year old theology should be discarded but you refuse to say what should be discarded!

^^^ If you are interested, then first take your time to learn and be informed; there are a range of resources at ready disposal to help to satisfy such interest.

Enigma:

^^^ If you are interested, then first take your time to learn and be informed; there are a range of resources at ready disposal to help to satisfy such interest.

The patented Christian evasive tactic.

Look, you always criticize Joagbaje and his "false doctrines". You always talk about exposing false teachers, well this in an opportunity!! Joagbaje has quoted scriptures to defend his position while you've said that certain scriptures should be disregarded since they were only relevant 5000 years ago. Why don't you defend yours instead of trying to ignore the questions.

Let's use a hypothetical situation. Let's assume that one of the Christians at CEC that Joagbaje has corrupted is reading these posts. This is an opportunity to bring the light of the real gospel to such a person.
Ask yourself, WWJD??

The questions again.
Should some of the of the old testament be ignored? If so, which parts should christians ignore?
Is God content with mere humans choosing what parts of his infallible word to accept or reject because they are "5000" year old theology?

^^^ And above the typical evangelical atheist dishonest tactics.

Even honest non evangelical atheists and other honest non-Christians would readily acknowledge that Christianity does not believe in putting witches to death.

Enigma:

^^^ And above the typical evangelical atheist dishonest tactics.

Even honest non evangelical atheists and other honest non-Christians would readily acknowledge that Christianity does not believe in putting witches to death.

There he goes with the evangelical atheists thing!! Just say you can't answer the questions and Your interpretation is just as valid as his. How are my questions dishonest anyway??!!

Forget about what "evangelical atheists" and non Christians think about witches. Answer the questions or just admit your interpretation is just as valid as Joagbaje's but I know you won't .

Anyway, you can háve your witches, old testament and whatnot. I'm out.

Kill those witches!!!!!!! Jesus is on your side lmao

As ever, good riddance to dishonest and really intellectually fraudulent evangelical atheists. In fact, let me borrow the epiphonema from that other thread. 

Breeze5000:
. . . . A lot of them just make mouth and ask all those kindergarten questions sometimes,  Like lil kids who ask! ask! and ask without pausing to think or imagine if what they are saying makes sense. [/b]Since they are the ones that says there is no God, the burden of proof lies with them and [b]I don't see them coming up with anything meaningful! . . . .

^^ The Bible did say God would be mocked because of some and we all can see who fits the description. Our man "Martian" is of those who seek excuse to mock - how could an educated human say that the OT position is the NT position?

Basically then, his claim would ONLY be tenable if our agreement is that Judaism is the same as Christianity - a claim Oga Jo will deny most since it reduces him to mere mortal! Or are the punishments etc we find under Judaism as same as today?

But then, whose fault is it if not the theiving empty-heads who use Scripture simply as a means to self-gain and thus dance between Old and New using all and sundry out of context to suit their manipulative schemes

Joagbaje:

Two common ways children get into it. Is through food or dedication. They do their own evangelism as we do ours. When they give a child such things his soul lust after. (a cursed food). The child finds himself in the coven in their midst at night. The next thing is not try and initiate the child by drinking blood. On the drinking of the blood ,the initiation takes place. Demons will enter into them. It is this demons that make such a child do wicked things. S[b]ome have killed family members,destroyed pregnancies ,ground vehicles, business . And all manner of wickedness you can imagine. The child is actually "inocent" or rather a victim as well.[/b] The demons needs a body to operate. Some children on their own will open up when an anointed minister talks with them. Because some of them wants to come out of it but fear hold them back.They usually  give them fearful instructions, like "YOU WILL DIE IF YOU TELL ANYONE"

The bit highlighted are very common gist in some areas. Whether you believe it or not will be dependent on the neighborhood you were raised or life experiences.

Joagbaje:

It's not just children . This thing doesn't know age.

From stories have heard, Jo could be right here as well.

@Nuke, irrespective of the tag (witchcraft, Demon-craft, whateva), some of these stories could be real (and i am not referring to the video). I have heard stories of kids (and even adult) carrying out acts similar to that described by Jo (knowingly or unknowingly; willingly or otherwise). How they do it, i don't know.

@Zikky:

I wrote that "ALL" of us have heard these stories and been involved in "deliverance" sessions. But I say "demons" do these things; NOT the children. Did you ever hear of people being "framed"? Look at how deceptive some here are and try to imagine what devils can do to deceive.

Then understand me - the children are framed and there is seemingly tacit agreement by many of us who ought be wiser and know better that we have a responsibility to see past what looks obvious and see the power of deception. An innocent child who had a dream and recounted it to an audience who later that day see the exact thing run out to them will be called a witch. Wisdom tells that it is so easy to influence such for a demon yet because our empty heads seek the Spirit inside the Flesh, they decide they have "cracked the code" and caught a witch.

Make we no talk too much. But there are people who have practiced arts most have never dreamt of and planned evil you can't conceieve - but make I no talk

@Zikky:

Please write me at nlbomb@gmail.com

nuclearboy:

Make we no talk too much. But there are people who have practiced arts most have never dreamt of and planned evil you can't conceieve - but make I no talk

No, no need to stop now
You have practically ran your mouth all over this thread as it is
you don't believe in the existence of withces!?! yeah right
better hold God tight o!

^^ ah, here comes one of the gang!

Dunce, can you show where I said "witches do NOT exist"?

If you took your brains out of the hole in your backside, you'd understand this is about you people stopping to blame innocent flesh for what is due to evil spirit

@ all,
i found this thread fascinating

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-729986.0.html

Natasha,,:

lmao are you all still arguing, @nuclearbot I will keep saying this just because you don't believe in some thing doesn't make it a lie and why do you keep throwing insults at people?
@ Martin, that was the old testament , just as Jo pointed out, we are not meant to do that naymore , same thing goes for a lot of other stuff that was thought to be good before.

@Natasha,
i'm used to it so it doesn't bother me a bit
It only shows his level of reasoning and thats why some people find it hard to discuss with him

Very fascinating thread.

Zikkyy:

The bit highlighted are very common gist in some areas. Whether you believe it or not will be dependent on the neighborhood you were raised or life experiences.

I grew up in an area where such beliefs are rife. There is only one thing I am sure of: everyone, including me, used to believe in the concept of akara-borne witchcraft, but I never personally witnessed anything. But Joagbaje and Natasha seem sure of what they have seen concerning this business.

A situation of child witchcraft is depicted in Arthur Miller’s play The Crucible which deals with the Massachusetts witchcraft situation of 17-something. What happened in Massachusets was that once these children found out what power they possessed they made full use of them by simply pointing out any adult they did not like her face and accusing her of being a witch. Once this accusation was made there was no force on earth that could save a pious but unfortunate soul so accused from the gallows! One is persuaded to see Africa’s child witches of today in this light - kids hallucinating, or "confessing" "so they could go back to sleep" or admitting so the torture would stop. I've not seen the videos in this thread, but like Nuke said, I think it’s time we started looking beyond the obvious.

I find nuclearboy’s arguments in posts 54 and 83 very persuasive. Men of the pulpit like Joagbaje tend to approach these matters with a certain approach and are always on the lookout for an opportunity to manifest power, hence I will not set too much store by his words here. But I wish Natasha can tell us more – in fact, I will give anything to personally interview her. And if I had the resources right now I would propose bringing Martian to taste a few balls of her grandma’s akara if the ancient woman is still alive, with Joagbaje standing by with a crate of olive oil in case my experiment goes awry and Martian starts flying non-stop! 

nuclearboy:

@Zikky:

Please write me at. . . . .

seen. i'll do that later in the day.

l would for starters, wish to pay my respect to this topic by limiting my first contributions to the concerns of the topic in question because l must confess l have mouth watering attractions to several comments already submitted especially from some familiar quarters.
As much as it would be folly and self deceiption for anyone Christians and Non-Christians alike to think that such elements as satan, demons, evil spirits, witchcraft etc do not exist because the bible shows us that they do.
2 Corinthians 2:11
"Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices" it takes some1 who exist to have "devices". The thought of certain people purnishing children and abusing them in the disguise of fighting witchcraft is preposterous, ludicrous, nonsensical and unbiblical because how can one address a matter thats spiritual with with physical advances it is ignorantly idiotic.
2 Corinthians 10:4-5
"( For the weapons of our warfare[ are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ"
The Church of God with the gospel of Jesus Christ is the solution and help that such children need becos it is a fact that many of such children and adult alike are desperately looking for a way out.

Isaiah 49:24-25
24 Shall the prey be taken from the mighty, or the lawful captive delivered?
25 But thus saith the Lord, Even the captives of the mighty shall be taken away, and the prey of the terrible shall be delivered: for I will contend with him that contendeth with thee, and I will save thy children.
2 Corinthians 10:4-5
"( For the weapons of our warfare[ are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ"
The Church of God with the gospel of Jesus Christ is the solution and help that such children need becos it is a fact that many of such children and adult alike are desperately looking for a way out.

Isaiah 49:24-25
24 Shall the prey be taken from the mighty, or the lawful captive delivered?
25 But thus saith the Lord, Even the captives of the mighty shall be taken away, and the prey of the terrible shall be delivered: for I will contend with him that contendeth with thee, and I will save thy children.

One thing this thread has taught me is how gullible most of us are - give us an idea and a rumour and we have all we need to build a galaxy. No wonder the Word says people will wonder after the beast - this much superstition and fantasy ought not be found among people who are meant to, as I have stated twice on this thread, "know God, be strong and do exploits".

Rather obvious now why people worship what they call MOGs

@MyJoe:

Hello Sir.

@Zikky:

Will await your pleasure

@Natasha:

It is NOT an insult to call a goat its name. What IS an insult is for you to tell me a lie and insist that I should believe it. What that says is that I ought make my brain subservient to yours. I have only called the shallow "shallow". They can prove otherwise by showing depth.

Take as simple example the fact that while I say witchcraft exists but not in the manner claimed and tried to explain, 3 people (likely the same person using different IDs) insist I am saying there are no witches.

Jo, Mabell and now Newmi. Is that depth?

newmi:

l would for starters, wish to pay my respect to this topic by limiting my first contributions to the concerns of the topic in question because l must confess l have mouth watering attractions to several comments already submitted especially from some familiar quarters.
As much as it would be[b] folly and self deceiption for anyone Christians and Non-Christians[/b] alike to think that such elements as satan, demons, evil spirits, witchcraft etc do not exist because the bible shows us that they do.

Mr Newmi,

Not many "Non-Christians" believe in the Bible, so dont you think it is "Folly" to use that same bible to support your argument?   

@Allohrandy
Well you don't have to believe that "witchcraft" does exist afterall gravity doesnt solicit for our recognition to justify its existence.

@ nuclearboy
it is not a mark of humility to say that non is wise no like the other contributor said Solomon was called wise because God made him wise. Then for us in the new dispensation the says that Christ is our wisdom
1 Corinthians 1:30-31
"But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord"
wouldn't it be wise to call youeself the name that God has called you?

@ Frosbel
Perhaps you would rather be comfortable and attracted to the "poverty gospel"

@ Enigma
hmmmmm maybe you are right l think the "poverty gospel" is of God SE BI? HMMMMM