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What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? - Politics - Nairaland

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What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by Donmeca(m): 3:03pm On Aug 15, 2011
When this whole privatisation thing started, we heard things like
the govt is not a good businessman. . .d govt is a bad manager. . . empowering d private sector will help revive our ailing coys like NITEL Ajaokuta and increases competition, availablity and value. . .in most countries like USA, d govt is just a regulator; not a player
. Then OBJ created d BPE (Bureau of Public Enterprises) and empowered it to sell govt companies to individuals.

I truly want to know the gains of privatisation in the Nigerian context (from 1999 to 2011). Pls give (in all indices) what Nigeria/Nigerians have gained from the sale of govt companies from OBJ thru GEJ. . .from survival to job creation to profit making. . .etc. I  read in d news that Nigeria realised only N249.5b or $1.6b from privatization from 1999 till date, how many companies were sold and for how much?  What were d asset/liability values of such companies b4 privatisation?

I am of d opinion that privatisation has done us more harm than good. . .what with d startling revelations at d current senate probe! With d way things (went) are going, d BPE will sell all govt shares in coys and end up not having work to do. I dat case I will suggest a change of name. . .Bureau of Private Enterprises (BPE). your views are welcome!
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by Kobojunkie: 3:09pm On Aug 15, 2011
sad sad Here we go again, trying to judge schemes, without first asking the sane question, which is, how well of a job we did implementing the suggested plans/schemes.

If you are presented with an umbrella, and you go out in the rain without it, of course you will get wet. Having the umbrella(idea) alone, does not guarantee that you will not get wet, especially when you REFUSE to USE it appropriately. Only when you adequately use the umbrella can you then decide on whether it, umbrella, works or not.
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by Donmeca(m): 3:11pm On Aug 15, 2011
^^^now Kobo, I'm not judging d scheme based on its name but based on its implementation in Nigeria
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by Kobojunkie: 3:12pm On Aug 15, 2011
^^^^ How can you judge the implementation when it is clear you are NOT DOING THAT?

Donmeca:

I truly want to know the gains of privatisation in the Nigerian context (from 1999 to 2011). Pls give (in all indices) what Nigeria/Nigerians have gained from the sale of govt companies from OBJ thru GEJ. . .from survival to job creation to profit making. . .etc. I  read in d news that Nigeria realised only N249.5b or $1.6b from privatization from 1999 till date, how many companies were sold and for how much?  What were d asset/liability values of such companies b4 privatisation?

I mean think about these things. I used the umbrella analogy above to help paint a picture of the possible problem. How can you say that because I arrived at my destination, wet, means the umbrella did not work?
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by Donmeca(m): 3:16pm On Aug 15, 2011
I asked questions based on the fact that many coys have been sold (without due process) to some people who cud not give them d much needed revival. In my own little mind, they process of letting out d coys and not making sure we realise d objective is subject to questioning.
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by femmy2010(m): 3:27pm On Aug 15, 2011
The government should have started with commercializing of those sold coy,
Imagine NSPMC(That prints 9ja's currency) is no longer wholly owned by the government.
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by Kobojunkie: 3:32pm On Aug 15, 2011
Donmeca:

I asked questions based on the fact that many coys have been sold (without due process) to some people who cud not give them d much needed revival. In my own little mind, they process of letting out d coys and not making sure we realise d objective is subject to questioning.

Here are some simple questions to help you

a) The private entities these companies were sold to --- how were they selected?

b) What was the time frame given for these revivals(considering the government itself failed for decades to make these same companies profitable)?

c) What policies were in place to ENSURE the success of privatization, and how well were these policies implemented)?  In the last 10 years, companies like Coca Cola, PZ, etc. have shifted their manufacturing base from Nigeria to neighboring countries where they can be assured of cheaper sources of such things as power, and raw material. How does a company experience revival while having to tackle the very same issues for which the big ones have had to bail?

d) What is the measure of success  of these projects at this time  -- is it simply in amount of money generated? Number of jobs? What and why?

My point remains that Privatization is not what has failed but the Government's implementation should be where we start looking.  How can we now pretend to record serious GAINS from something we have RELUCTANTLY approached in the last 12 years??
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by obowunmi(m): 3:33pm On Aug 15, 2011
You, I believe have answered your own question. Privatization is not the issue but that there is no due process, people can acquire formerly owned government entities thru bribes and nepotism, rather than an actual bidding process ---- lots of examples. That process is certainly NOT privatization.
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by Donmeca(m): 4:19pm On Aug 15, 2011
Kobojunkie:

Here are some simple questions to help you

a) The private entities these companies were sold to --- how were they selected?

b) What was the time frame given for these revivals(considering the government itself failed for decades to make these same companies profitable)?

c) What policies were in place to ENSURE the success of privatization, and how well were these policies implemented)?  In the last 10 years, companies like Coca Cola, PZ, etc. have shifted their manufacturing base from Nigeria to neighboring countries where they can be assured of cheaper sources of such things as power, and raw material. How does a company experience revival while having to tackle the very same issues for which the big ones have had to bail?

d) What is the measure of success  of these projects at this time  -- is it simply in amount of money generated? Number of jobs? What and why?

My point remains that Privatization is not what has failed but the Government's implementation should be where we start looking.  How can we now pretend to record serious GAINS from something we have RELUCTANTLY approached in the last 12 years??


a) D bolded where u quoted me answered that with emphasis on "without due process" Most companies were sold to govt cronies at give-away prices. Some even used d coys' assets as collateral to borrow money to pay d bid price after securing d bid. People have confessed to collecting bribes to influence d sale of coys.

b) If they were not given enough time for d turnaround (by their own calculation), they can easily back out and allow those who consider d timeline suitable to buy d coys. . .and d govt failed for decades cos "it is a bad manager" as they told us.

c) Partly answered as d case of (a) above. The infrastructure issue did not start after but before privatisation. Unilever went to Ghana b4 then Michelin and Dunlop also left but these "investors" felt they cud do it with all d difficulties. . .did they succeed? Were they forced? The policy-inconsistencies have been there but these guys may not put them into consideration. . .who do u blame if bought an accident car for d price of a brand new one just cos u failed to carry out due diligence? or if u bought a property in a flood-prone area? While some coys were divesting in Nigeria, MTN, Econet, Glo and now Etisalat are came in and are doing great.

d) There are many ways to measure success here. I gave a few and expected u to tell me that d ones i mentioned were well covered and also give me the success in many other indices u know they have excelled in. And yes! Amount of money generated from such sales and job creation are major indices of success. We were also told that. They cited egs with d success in telecoms sector yet since NITEL was sold, it is yet to pick up instead we had mass sack from most of the sold coys.
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by Kobojunkie: 4:50pm On Aug 15, 2011
Donmeca:

a) D bolded where u quoted me answered that with emphasis on "without due process" Most companies were sold to govt cronies at give-away prices. Some even used d coys' assets as collateral to borrow money to pay d bid price after securing d bid. People have confessed to collecting bribes to influence d sale of coys.
If you really, truly believe the above, then why did you post this earlier . . . .
Donmeca:

I am of d opinion that privatisation has done us more harm than good. .

Why are you willing to blame the UMBRELLA when you claim to be aware that the Person never really used the UMBRELLA right to begin with?
Donmeca:

b) If they were not given enough time for d turnaround (by their own calculation), they can easily back out and allow those who consider d timeline suitable to buy d coys. . .and d govt failed for decades cos "it is a bad manager" as they told us.
Back Out? Not given enough time for turnaround? By whom? the same Government that, again, failed in decades to achieve even close to what many of them have so far achieved in way less time? :-/
Donmeca:

c) Partly answered as d case of (a) above. The infrastructure issue did not start after but before privatisation. Unilever went to Ghana b4 then Michelin and Dunlop also left but these "investors" felt they cud do it with all d difficulties. . .did they succeed? Were they forced? The policy-inconsistencies have been there but these guys may not put them into consideration. . .who do u blame if bought an accident car for d price of a brand new one just cos u failed to carry out due diligence? or if u bought a property in a flood-prone area? While some coys were divesting in Nigeria, MTN, Econet, Glo and now Etisalat are came in and are doing great.

That Unilever was able to manage, does not automagically mean ALL COMPANIES should be able to. Depending on location, and resources available to each company, these decisions are made.

The Privatization bid CAME WITH promises of infrastructural improvement, by Government. If you are not aware of this, please note it. Government promised as part of it's privatization policies, to improve infrastructure, and business policies. How much of that has been realized?

Donmeca:

d) There are many ways to measure success here. I gave a few and expected u to tell me that d ones i mentioned were well covered and also give me the success in many other indices u know they have excelled in. And yes! Amount of money generated from such sales and job creation are major indices of success. We were also told that. They cited egs with d success in telecoms sector yet since NITEL was sold, it is yet to pick up instead we had mass sack from most of the sold coys.
There are many ways to measure success? I believe the first problem is your suggesting that it is up to UNINFORMED individuals such as yourself and my person, to decide what it means for a company, any company, to be successful, especially given the environment that existed before privatization.

I cannot tell you one measure since I am not sure how fried some of these companies were before they were sold off. If anything, I think a closer look at what is going on will reveal more problems on the part of government in all this, than anything else, given that the same trend is clearly visible in the general Nigerian business environ.
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by Donmeca(m): 5:51pm On Aug 15, 2011
Kobo u make it look like I am pro govt and u pro private investors in dis discourse but we are saying d same thing in essence. I  made d statement;
I am of d opinion that privatisation has done us more harm than good
not to show that privatisation as a policy is bad but to butress d point that d way it was and is bn  handled in Nigeria is bad and has made us as a people suffer rather than gain from d process. I started what would av led to a wholistic appraisal of commercialisation in Nigeria. Come to think of it, what is the diff between doz in govt and d privatisation bid winners?

Some can take a look at democracy as practiced here and argue that we have suffered more under democratic leadership than military rule. . .d person will den conclude that democracy has given us more pain than gain in Nigeria. Does that really mean democracy gives more pain dan gain, generally? NO!

Promises of infrastructural improvement just for the companies or for d whole Nigeria? And they believed? Was it given as a condition for their start up? How many times will we hear of doz promises?
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by Kobojunkie: 6:11pm On Aug 15, 2011
Donmeca:

Kobo u make it look like I am pro govt and u pro private investors in dis discourse but we are saying d same thing in essence. I  made d statement;  not to show that privatisation as a policy is bad but to butress d point that d way it was and is bn  handled in Nigeria is bad and has made us as a people suffer rather than gain from d process. I started what would av led to a wholistic appraisal of commercialisation in Nigeria. Come to think of it, what is the diff between doz in govt and d privatisation bid winners?

I am not making it Look like anything  -- please do not confuse your private assumptions with my reality. You FAULTED privatization in your first post. But over and over, you admit that there is a major problem with Government approach(not even with the companies in question). To me, that about puts light on the reasoning behind this thread of yours.

You cannot wholistically appraise/or judge that which you admit has not even been vigorously implemented. How do you do that? That is the first problem with this. How do you judge an umbrella you have not even used according to given directions on how it ought to be used What you are attempting to do here is reporting that microwave do not work, because you put a stainless steel plate and soup inside of it, and instead the microwave blew up. That is ridiculous!

Donmeca:

Some can take a look at democracy as practiced here and argue that we have suffered more under democratic leadership than military rule. . .d person will den conclude that democracy has given us more pain than gain in Nigeria. Does that really mean democracy gives more pain dan gain, generally? NO!

WRONG!!!! You cannot do that either because we have NOT WORKED at all either on correctly implementing or establishing democracy in Nigeria. NO WE HAVE NOT!! So you cannot Judge that either!!

If your child walks into a university, and then fails to attend classes and walks out of the university after 4 years. Do you blame the University for the loser not being handed a diploma after all those years??

Donmeca:

Promises of infrastructural improvement just for the companies or for d whole Nigeria? And they believed? Was it given as a condition for their start up? How many times will we hear of doz promises?

Are you seriously asking me the above question?? shocked shocked
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by obowunmi(m): 6:14pm On Aug 15, 2011
Do NOT argue with Kobo ---- she spews RUBBISH ---- other folks can attest to this. She's lack any form of common sense.  undecided undecided
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by Donmeca(m): 6:36pm On Aug 15, 2011
I am not making it Look like anything -- please do not confuse your private assumptions with my reality. You FAULTED privatization in your first post. But over and over, you admit that there is a major problem with Government approach(not even with the companies in question). To me, that about puts light on the reasoning behind this thread of yours.

You cannot wholistically appraise/or judge that which you admit has not even been vigorously implemented. How do you do that? That is the first problem with this. How do you judge an umbrella you have not even used according to given directions on how it ought to be used What you are attempting to do here is reporting that microwave do not work, because you put a stainless steel plate and soup inside of it, and instead the microwave blew up. That is ridiculous!

Now u sound like u're telling me to shut up. cheesy Can u tell me where i spoke of privatisation and it was not as practiced here? Everything I say is based on d context of how we did and still do it here but the bottomline is that doz coys were sold. . .ownership changed; u can't say there was no privatisation cos it was not well done. In that case we shud just watch them while the continue to progress in error? Asking about the gains of the scheme will make us identify d causes of their failure/success. I am not saying that your arriving at a place drenched is as a result of bad umbrella. . .cos I do not yet know that until u tell me. It may be that u cannot use an umbrella, d wind blew d raindrops into your shade, d wind took d umbrella from u, or u just decided to feel d water. But one thing is sure, I will frown at your wet appearance while holding an umbrella. The first blame goes to u. . .until u tell me to blame d umbrella instead.

WRONG!!!! You cannot do that either because we have NOT WORKED at all either on correctly implementing or establishing democracy in Nigeria. NO WE HAVE NOT!! So you cannot Judge that either!! If your child walks into a university, and then fails to attend classes and walks out of the university after 4 years. Do you blame the University for the loser not being handed a diploma after all those years??


We can't appraise our democratic journey so far cos we have not worked to get it right? Are u joking? What would u then say if ur son and most other students/graduates came home with d diploma showing that they all did very well in school only for them to be incapable of solving d basic problem their curriculum claimed they would solve after graduation? Would u just blame ur child for grasping what d school taught him and leave the school that did not follow d curriculum to d letter?
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by Kobojunkie: 6:48pm On Aug 15, 2011
Donmeca:

Now u sound like u're telling me to shut up. cheesy Can u tell me where i spoke of privatisation and it was not as practiced here? Everything I say is based on d context of how we did and still do it here but the bottomline is that doz coys were sold. . .ownership changed; u can't say there was no privatisation cos it was not well done.

I think you should take some time in UNDERSTANDING Privatization really is about. If it were simply as you claim, then quite frankly, ALL NIGERIAN BUSINESSES should be flourishing. Government has a PIVOTAL part to play in the success of PRIVATIZATION and the administrations past acknowledged and admitted to this.

Donmeca:

In that case we shud just watch them while the continue to progress in error? Asking about the gains of the scheme will make us identify d causes of their failure/success. I am not saying that your arriving at a place drenched is as a result of bad umbrella. . .cos I do not yet know that until u tell me. It may be that u cannot use an umbrella, d wind blew d raindrops into your shade, d wind took d umbrella from u, or u just decided to feel d water. But one thing is sure, I will frown at your wet appearance while holding an umbrella. The first blame goes to u. . .until u tell me to blame d umbrella instead.
Before you ask of the gains of the scheme, you should ask if you covered all that was necessary to guarantee the success of the scheme. Again, this you have admitted our goverment has failed in.

Again, if you really believe that the first blame goes to me(the user of the umbrella), why then do you continue to fault privatization, given what we know, and you admit, of how it was ADMINISTERED by the previous administrations? How do you expect it to be successful when you admit it was ALL marred with the usual Nigerian practices of bribery and corruption, and nothing for something etc?


Donmeca:

We can't appraise our democratic journey so far cos we have not worked to get it right? Are u joking? What would u then say if your son and most other students/graduates came home with d diploma showing that they all did very well in school only for them to be incapable of solving d basic problem their curriculum claimed they would solve after graduation? Would u just blame your child for grasping what d school taught him and leave the school that did not follow d curriculum to d letter?

For crying out loud, democracy is GOVERNMENT for the people, BY THE PEOPLE. . . the only election many even claim was close to being by the people was the recent APRIL ELECTIONS . . .it is almost as if WE JUST STARTED.

Nigeria has only been living within the walls of DEMOCRACY UNIVERSITY but not attending classes or even signing up for the courses, so It makes no sense to attempt to judge the UNIVERSITY at this point since it seems we only recently(in April) actually SIGNED UP for one course in all this. lol
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by Donmeca(m): 7:12pm On Aug 15, 2011
I may not be a prof on d subject matter but I know d responsiblities of govt in it.

Before you ask of the gains of the scheme, you should ask if you covered all that was necessary to guarantee the success of the scheme. Again, this you have admitted our goverment has failed in.

Again, if you really believe that the first blame goes to me(the user of the umbrella), why then do you continue to fault privatization, given what we know, and you admit, of how it was ADMINISTERED by the previous administrations? How do you expect it to be successful when you admit it was ALL marred with the usual Nigerian practices of bribery and corruption, and nothing for something etc?

The govt has a lot of role to play but playing that role does not guarantee success. . .as there is no absolute guarantee for that. Plus it was d govt that sold d coys and when I fault d process, I blame d govt also. When I fault privatisation as practiced in Nigeria by Nigerians and for Nigerians, those who practiced it will want to justify it and this now brings us to d blame game of who did what and how? This is what we are now seeing at d Senate probe panel.

For crying out loud, democracy is GOVERNMENT for the people, BY THE PEOPLE. . . the only election many even claim was close to being by the people was the recent APRIL ELECTIONS . . .it is almost as if WE JUST STARTED.

Nigeria has only been living within the walls of DEMOCRACY UNIVERSITY but not attending classes or even signing up for the courses, so It makes no sense to attempt to judge the UNIVERSITY at this point since it seems we only recently(in April) actually SIGNED UP for one course in all this. lol

Well, for ur mind! If u ask d UN, UK and ur host country. . .and even Nigeria, they will tell u Naija has been a democracy for 12 years and as such is pursuing further degrees in Democrcy Uni.
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by obowunmi(m): 7:23pm On Aug 15, 2011
Don, you have been warned. undecided undecided
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by Donmeca(m): 7:33pm On Aug 15, 2011
^^^ grin grin grin. Thanks but that was not a bad discourse wink
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by Kobojunkie: 7:46pm On Aug 15, 2011
Donmeca:

I may not be a prof on d subject matter but I know d responsiblities of govt in it.

The govt has a lot of role to play but playing that role does not guarantee success. . .as there is no absolute guarantee for that.
Well, when I say the government has a role to guarantee success . . . I mean government plays a major part in ensuring the success or failure of privatization in the general sense of it. However, AFTERWARDS, it is solely on the companies to work out the rest.

In Nigeria's case, there are countless number of issues to be dealth with. Every small business owner in Nigeria will tell you this is a fact. That some companies have found a way around this . . . either by bribing their way around the problems or finding 'illegal' loopholes to use to their advantage does not in anyway dimish the fact that these issues remain.
Donmeca:

Plus it was d govt that sold d coys and when I fault d process, I blame d govt also. When I fault privatisation as practiced in Nigeria by Nigerians and for Nigerians, those who practiced it will want to justify it and this now brings us to d blame game of who did what and how?
I think you should make sure to visit your own posts often. When I asked you who many of the companies were sold to. . . you stated that they were mostly sold to 'the highest pocket greaser', many of whom happen to be directly linked to those in government. So, why now are you suggesting that in some way what was practiced is  to be blamed on privatization, when at the end of the day, we all sort of know what happened -- it's in the news that some paid bribes to get this and that, pointing to the fact that there were illegal practices in the process right from the government itself.

Faulting the individuals who bribed their way into obtaining these companies is a whole nother thing but that as well is not a fault on privatization but BAD GOVERNMENT still.

Donmeca:

This is what we are now seeing at d Senate probe panel.
Well, for your mind! If u ask d UN, UK and your host country. . .and even Nigeria, they will tell u Naija has been a democracy for 12 years and as such is pursuing further degrees in Democrcy Uni.

Sure, they will tell you that Nigeria has been living on campus for the past 12 years . . . . . but I am sure every nigerian out there knows that it is not the same as saying that Nigeria has been full-fledged democracy in all that time. Again, we have only recently had an election that even closely mirrored the sentiments of the people. Even a child born two years ago, knows and understands we never even start, especially when you consider what democracy really means. For pete's sake . . . our last president was a man who no one knew or remembers ever voting for. ROFL
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by MMM2(m): 7:10am On Aug 16, 2011
nothing angry
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by deenee: 8:13am On Aug 16, 2011
Kobojunkie:

Well, when I say the government has a role to guarantee success . . . I mean government plays a major part in ensuring the success or failure of privatization in the general sense of it. However, AFTERWARDS, it is solely on the companies to work out the rest.

In Nigeria's case, there are countless number of issues to be dealth with. Every small business owner in Nigeria will tell you this is a fact. That some companies have found a way around this . . . either by bribing their way around the problems or finding 'illegal' loopholes to use to their advantage does not in anyway dimish the fact that these issues remain. I think you should make sure to visit your own posts often. When I asked you who many of the companies were sold to. . . you stated that they were mostly sold to 'the highest pocket greaser', many of whom happen to be directly linked to those in government. So, why now are you suggesting that in some way what was practiced is  to be blamed on privatization, when at the end of the day, we all sort of know what happened -- it's in the news that some paid bribes to get this and that, pointing to the fact that there were illegal practices in the process right from the government itself.

Faulting the individuals who bribed their way into obtaining these companies is a whole nother thing but that as well is not a fault on privatization but BAD GOVERNMENT still.

Sure, they will tell you that Nigeria has been living on campus for the past 12 years . . . . . but I am sure every nigerian out there knows that it is not the same as saying that Nigeria has been full-fledged democracy in all that time. Again, we have only recently had an election that even closely mirrored the sentiments of the people. Even a child born two years ago, knows and understands we never even start, especially when you consider what democracy really means. For pete's sake . . .  our last president was a man who no one knew or remembers ever voting for. ROFL




@Kobojunkie, You have just made my day. Like the way you clearly articulated your points from that start, the consistency in flow of thoughts and the presentation of the analogy you have used for this discourse. smiley

Quite often, I bother not to even post a reply because most posters just start threads without any clear evidence to back up their claim whilst contradicting themselves over and over in the process.

God bless you!


P.S On second thoughts, maybe the poster will stop 'shooting himself' in the foot if he edits the topic on this thread and askS a rhetorical question like- WHY HAS PRIVATIZATION NOT WORKED IN THE NIGERIAN CONTEXT? cool
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by lastpage: 9:56am On Aug 16, 2011
Whoever told you Privatization (is) did not work in Nigeria?

Okay, Go ask Mallam El Rufai, He was the CEO of Bureau of Public Enterprise (BPE) that sold Nigeria-off to OBJ, himself and his own Cronies!

I bet he's gat a very good ANSWER for ya'll.
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by Donmeca(m): 11:06am On Aug 16, 2011
deenee:




@Kobojunkie, You have just made my day. Like the way you clearly articulated your points from that start, the consistency in flow of thoughts and the presentation of the analogy you have used for this discourse. smiley

Quite often, I bother not to even post a reply because most posters just start threads without any clear evidence to back up their claim whilst contradicting themselves over and over in the process.

God bless you!


P.S On second thoughts, maybe the poster will stop 'shooting himself' in the foot if he edits the topic on this thread and askS a rhetorical question like- WHY HAS PRIVATIZATION NOT WORKED IN THE NIGERIAN CONTEXT? cool

That's not d best u can offer here. . .contradicting and shooting myself in d foot on dis topic? Maka why? Unfortunately, u just bothered to post a congratulatory reply to Kobojunkie. . .instead of keeping ur cool. All I did was to identify that there was privatisation in Nigeria. That d process was not ideal does not remove d fact that we privatised. I also Identified that Nigeria's version of privatisation failed, or did it succeed? All u can do (if u don't already know) is to ask me how and why it failed or show me how and y u think it a success. As for d tiltle, that I took a position of its failure does not mean that u cannot think it to be a success. U can show me how. . .so d title stays. U can change it to suit ur reasoning in d replies.
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by brainpulse: 11:47am On Aug 16, 2011
There is no need of arguing on this issue. When Goverment came out to tell nigerians that there is no need for goverment to manage coys that no need for goverment to be in business, you dont need your brain to know that such government lacks the idea to even manage the people he rules, infastructures and create amenities.
Sometimes we play dumb even when we see the handwritting on the wall clearly.
if you cant manage the resources and infectively utilize them then you have no business being in government. the motives behind BPE, selling of infrastrutures to people that cant even sit and think of setting up there own is the dumbest thing in the world. Yet even literates begin to argue as if their brains as vapourized.
ANy leader that believes in privitizing his properties and can not manage them well is not fit to be a leader.

An effective leader manages and optimizes any and every available resources within his disposals.

It is the Greed at the eyes of our leaders that makes them to sell the properties to themselves and families that can manage it well.
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by brainpulse: 11:57am On Aug 16, 2011
@ Kobojunlie

You should ask yourself what is the motive of selling off these coys in the first place. We don't need to sell them off in the name of privatization or anything if we have a visionary and a leader that has ideas in running things, industrialist and economics with the right frame of mind and no corruption mentality.
How many leader of such quality have we had in the recent times, the ones that we have are surrounded by equal greedy cronies of same cabals, so it wont work we keep on having failed state and everything. so selling of your fathers farm to your servant to manage wont work pls thing.

Your illustration of umbrella in the rain is very POOR. Make a sensible one PLS
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by deenee: 12:56pm On Aug 16, 2011
Donmeca:

That's not d best u can offer here. . .contradicting and shooting myself in d foot on dis topic? Maka why? Unfortunately, u just bothered to post a congratulatory reply to Kobojunkie. . .instead of keeping your cool. All I did was to identify that there was privatisation in Nigeria. That d process was not ideal does not remove d fact that we privatised. I also Identified that Nigeria's version of privatisation failed, or did it succeed? All u can do (if u don't already know) is to ask me how and why it failed or show me how and y u think it a success.  As for d tiltle, that I took a position of its failure does not mean that u cannot think it to be a success. U can show me how. . .so d title stays. U can change it to suit your reasoning in d replies.



Spot on, As you have indicated , I guess I don't have MUCH to offer on the subject matter. So as my Wafi peeps will say -I no fit shout!

Just a quick reminder, when you want to engage in a discourse of any kind and on any topic, you don't start by making a sweeping conclusion on the subject matter at hand(this is akin to putting the 'cart before the horse') This is exactly what you have done(no offence meant please) and by doing this you have reversed the accepted order of things

I recommend you use what is called the top to bottom approach, back up your claims with sources that can be verified, stimulate a well balanced critique of the subject matter and based on this, come to a  logical conclusion. By doing this, at least you  would have done some 'justice' to the subject matter at hand ) cool
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by Donmeca(m): 1:19pm On Aug 16, 2011
^^^ @deenee; D approach I used my broda was to identify there was a problem. During the cause of d chat, we (not just me) will state d possible root causes of d problem and then go ahead to proffer solutions for d problem. This I considered ok (and a top to bottom approach) but some users like u, frown at supporting another man's idea (conclusion). . .d innate Naija stubbornness will make u chart what seems to u like a new course while invariably supporting d other man's course and in d end arrive at same destination. Wud u prefer we stopped d talk at d when all agree that privatisation as practised in Nigeria was a failure or when we have identified why it had failed and may be given possible solutions? What verifiable sources do u want and can't get at this point?


brainpulse:

@ Kobojunlie

Your illustration of umbrella in the rain is very POOR. Make a sensible one PLS

I gave Kobo a good answer to d umbrella analogy which she gave 4getin that d man even told me that he used d umbrella very well yet got to my crib wet! Before now, we were told that due process was followed in d sale of those coys. . .is that not akin to judiciously using d umbrella? why did he come home drenched? I also asked about some graduates who were certified by the university only for them to become proven failures in those things they got certifications in.
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by BigMeat2: 1:24pm On Aug 16, 2011
Unfortunately, privatisation hasn't been successful has it was meant to be.

The idea behind the process is good, but as with all things in Nigeria, proper procedures are not followed. It turns out to favour those who are in the game for their own selfish gains.
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by Kobojunkie: 1:42pm On Aug 16, 2011
Donmeca:

I gave Kobo a good answer to d umbrella analogy which she gave 4getin that d man even told me that he used d umbrella very well yet got to my crib wet! Before now, we were told that due process was followed in d sale of those coys. . .is that not akin to judiciously using d umbrella? why did he come home drenched? I also asked about some graduates who were certified by the university only for them to become proven failures in those things they got certifications in.

Go Back to that Umbrella analogy again and think upon it a bit more. "THE MAN" told you he used the umbrella, but RECENT revelations have shown that he didn't actually use the umbrella as it was meant to be used. For pete's sake, pick up the newspapers -- even the WB is supposedly accusing some of those involved of crimes, and here you are telling us because some man TOLD you he used the umbrella, is enough reason for you to want to blame this on privatization itself?
I mean you actually have to do some investigation of your own to ensure what you were told was remotely correct. You do realize that, right?

You ask of graduates who were certified by the university only for them to be proven failures in those things, and I answer that is possible BUT You do not conclude before you see the certificate --- you do not conclude failure before making certain the certificate is even legit.

Nigeria, again, has only recently registered for a course in democracy UNIVERSITY --- the world KNOWS the last election was about the first to mirror the sentiments of the Nigerian people -- even Nigerians know this. Wait till the certificate is produced to jump to conclusion, not before. What I see you attempting here is trying to imply it is not reasonable to send the student to this university(even with the high rate of success that has already been achieved through this) because you are afraid of failing.
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by Donmeca(m): 1:49pm On Aug 16, 2011
Kobojunkie:


You ask of graduates who were certified by the university only for them to be proven failures in those things, and I answer that is possible BUT You do not conclude before you see the certificate. Nigeria, again, has only recently registered for a course in democracy --- the world KNOWS this last election was about the first to mirror the sentiments of the Nigerian people -- even Nigerians know this. Wait till the certificate is produced before you jump to conclusion then, not before. Cause all I see you attempting here is trying to imply we not send the student to this university(even with the high rate of success that has already been achieved through this) because you are afraid that the student will come out a failure.

This is not true. I am not against privatisation! I am against d way it was/is practiced here vis-a-vis d outcome or its gains/losses to Nigeria.
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by Kobojunkie: 1:53pm On Aug 16, 2011
Donmeca:

This is not true. I am not against privatisation! I am against d way it was/is practiced here vis-a-vis d outcome or its gains/losses to Nigeria.

We have been through this already. You cannot judge that which we have not judiciously pursued.

Over and over, you have revealed you have no clue what really went on, apart from what you believe you were fed. Well, guess what, now you can learn what really happened . . . . pick up today's newspaper.

We have FOI, the onus is on you to do your research so you can better learn what really happened -- telling those of us who have a better understanding of what really happened, that privatization as it was practiced in Nigeria failed, makes absolutely no sense. There are no "1000 ways to practice privatization". You either practice it as it ought, and work out the kinks as you go, or you don't at all.
Re: What Have We Gained From Privatisation In Nigeria? by deenee: 1:56pm On Aug 16, 2011
Donmeca:

^^^ @deenee; D approach I used my broda was to identify there was a problem. During the cause of d chat, we (not just me) will state d possible root causes of d problem and then go ahead to proffer solutions for d problem. This I considered ok (and a top to bottom approach) but some users like u, frown at supporting another man's idea (conclusion). . .d innate Naija stubbornness will make u chart what seems to u like a new course while invariably supporting d other man's course and in d end arrive at same destination. Wud u prefer we stopped d talk at d when all agree that privatisation as practised in Nigeria was a failure or when we have identified why it had failed and may be given possible solutions? What verifiable sources do u want and can't get at this point?


I gave Kobo a good answer to d umbrella analogy which she gave 4getin that d man even told me that he used d umbrella very well yet got to my crib wet! Before now, we were told that due process was followed in d sale of those coys. . .is that not akin to judiciously using d umbrella? why did he come home drenched? I also asked about some graduates who were certified by the university only for them to become proven failures in those things they got certifications in.

I like your tenacious attitude. Well just to let you know, I cannot recall stating my opinion on the subject matter (i.e. whether we have gained  or not from the privatization process) I have only expressed some form of satisfaction directly at kobojunkie for the way she has presented her view on the thread.

Anyway, I think this has increased my interest on the subject matter. Hence, I would like both of us to do this

Pick on government agency that has been 'privatized successfully'  and one that has not

Look at the whole process and see if due diligence has been observed during the course of privatization

Identify what has worked and what hasn't, what are the learning points that we all can pick from the exercise? ( yes I mean all of 'us' because the success or failure of our great country Nigeria is a 'collective responsibility' and who  knows maybe one day one of 'us' could be in a position to change things for good)  

Carry out a comparative analysis using another country that has successfully privatized some of her government holdings ( one example I would recommend is Malaysia because the original blueprint for the privatization process model was copied from them)

Apply this analysis within the Nigerian context highlighting the pros and cons and give your take on the matter.

DEAL?

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