nodogma:

@davidylan You stated that you can see why those who do not believe can see it as foolishness. So the question was posed: @davidylan But why is not foolishness to you? Do you find a certain comfort in believing something that is not true? Or, do you just choose not to question? The bible causes alot of harm to people. For example, women stay in abusive marriages because they believe the bible is against divorce. Families are broken and attrocities have occurred because of this book. So, it is difficult for some to just sit back and not question.

The question was sincere. But if your only response is to call it inane that is fine. The question is far from inane and is asked to try to understand your point of view because you posted one, which is what these forums are for.

here is the problem with answering your "question" - you dont ask them with an open mind, a willingness to learn rather you ask them rather with a predetermined mindset. A mindset that is already programmed to see religiosity = automatically bad, illogical and foolish. What is the point answering your "questions" then? Is that not synonymous with whistling into the wind?

davidylan:

here is the problem with answering your "question" - you dont ask them with an open mind, a willingness to learn rather you ask them rather with a predetermined mindset. A mindset that is already programmed to see religiosity = automatically bad, illogical and foolish. What is the point answering your "questions" then? Is that not synonymous with whistling into the wind?

Point taken. My intention is truly to understand why believers believe. You are correct that I do have my own view which is a non-belief in the God of the bible. But, I ask because maybe I am missing something. But I understand where you are coming from and will be more aware of this (my tone and intention) going forward. Thank you.

nodogma:

Point taken. My intention is truly to understand why believers believe. You are correct that I do have my own view which is a non-belief in the God of the bible. But, I ask because maybe I am missing something. But I understand where you are coming from and will be more aware of this (my tone and intention) going forward. Thank you.

In the event you do indicate your willingness to at least consider the faith view then i will more than happy to answer any of your questions.

InesQor:

@thehomer:

Thanks for your response. You see, I am not so rigid in my thoughts. What this means is that I do not believe ALL that is in the Book of Jubilees. My point is, assuming (since there is no way to know for sure) that the book was correct about the height, then indeed it would be a feat to behold at that time, and one can imagine how these men would declare that they are building a tower into the heavens (prehistoric times, thrice the height of our own tallest modern tower).

I'm not that concerned about what parts of a myth you do not believe but in those parts that you do. If you disbelieve so much of that text, why do you believe that the height was accurate? After all, it too could just be made up.

InesQor:

Okay lets say it was written in 160 B.C. as is speculated. How does this negate the fact that it may be correct? That may be the first transcription from oral sources. No one can know for sure, and your guess is only as good as mine.

It simply means that the engineering claims are highly dubious besides, how could that building have reached heaven? Was heaven closer than the sun in those times? Was the earth flat? What do you think?

InesQor:

As to the remains, Shinar was actually a valley region. Rubble and continental shifts may have covered stuff by now, I do not know. Just maybe in the future an expedition will reveal evidence, but since neither of us have positive or negative evidence, I will say there is THAT possibility that it was a real occurence.

A valley region where? Structures that huge don't simply wander away you know. Continents move very slowly so I doubt that their positions have changed significantly over the past 10,000 years.

InesQor:

If the Hebrews who wrote the book say Hebrew was the language of the heavens, then that is their own (probably biased) view. There is no way for me to tell, seeing that I have not been to heaven.

Regards.

How about here on Earth? Are the languages that are currently spoken derived from Hebrew? And recall that the animals too spoke it I wonder why they forgot. I can just imagine an earthworm speaking Hebrew.

@ Topic
How many more time do we hafta do this?

The author of the post needs to grab some DVDs and books to read from the website below

www.rhemagate.com

Jews copied everything from other religion at that time.

12 disciples = 12 olympians

fundementaly all relgions share the basic premis and no religion on the planet is the same as it was when it was created. christians are the most widly know religious group to take aspets of the religion of the people they wish to control and add it to thier own religion to make it more favorable to the outsiders. this practice has been used world over by nearly every religion. religion is mans was of making sence of the world around him. when man figured out what thinder was religions did away with the god of thunder, when they figured out agriculture they did aways with the goddess of the hearth, they figure out what a volccano truely is and they stop sacrificing virgins to the volcano god.

@thehomer

I have nothing more to say on this matter. I wish you well, man.

Of course the first two posts of mine were left ignored, it's the one about Babel that posters will babel babble about.

You cannot understand what you do not know and you cannot know what you have not discovered and you cannot discover what you have not searched and you cannot search for what you do not THINK exists.

May be before your last breath, you would realize as others like you later realized and wept at the tragedy of their UNBELIEF.

May God help you to see the TRUTH that will set you free before it is too late.

Orikinla:

You cannot understand what you do not know and you cannot know what you have not discovered and you cannot discover what you have not searched and you cannot search for what you do not THINK exists.

May be before your last breath, you would realize as others like you later realized and wept at the tragedy of their UNBELIEF.

May God help you to see the TRUTH that will set you free before it is too late.

Please do you have any evidence to show that there is any form of consciousnesses that exist outside the brain? Do you have any evidence to show that human consciousness survives bodily death? Why is your religion based purely on what people don't know like life after death? Why do you worship FEAR?. . .

Why cast pearls before swines? Or books in the midst of illitrates? The poster is actually correct, many of the acient books that painted the true picture of Jesus, as a normal man with wife and children were delibrately left out. Instead Constantine the great opted for versions that panited Jesus as the devine son of God.  He may very well be, but let his diviinity be measured by truth told by those who new him, not by a General, and scribes who would later write a photoshoped version of the bible.

Even the bible is quite clear, the bible is foolishness to those who dont believe.

If I remember my Philosophy lectures well, this appears to be fallacy of begging the question. You cannot defend the bible by what the bible says about itself.

logica:

If I remember my Philosophy lectures well, this appears to be fallacy of begging the question. You cannot defend the bible by what the bible says about itself.

Thank you! Im glad we people here educated enough to spot the fallacy in the argument. I was going to say the same thing.

Phreakabit enters thread, looks around, sees a bunch of lunatics failing at trying to brainwash Christians. Shakes his head and walks away. . . . . . . . It wouldn't happen, we Christians already know what is happening.

phreakabit:

sees a bunch of lunatics failing at trying to brainwash Christians.

That would be "double wahala for dead body". He that is ALREADY brainwashed can only be enlightened, not further brainwashed.

See! see!! see!!! If u want to belief in the Devil, or if no god at all, if fine worshipping God almighty and accepting Jesus Christ as ur Lord and personal saviour is not by force, but i petty u people when He wrath comes. U 'll now know whether He is made believe as u people who obvious don't believe claim.

@nodogma:
Your own part of Hell will be a well furnished three bedroom apartment if you don't change your ways soon. I Pray on your behalf brethren.

InesQor:

@thehomer

I have nothing more to say on this matter. I wish you well, man.

Thanks. I wish you the same.

InesQor:

Of course the first two posts of mine were left ignored, it's the one about Babel that posters will babel babble about.

What can I say? I had nothing to say about them.

hilli666:

Why cast pearls before swines? Or books in the midst of illitrates? The poster is actually correct, many of the acient books that painted the true picture of Jesus, as a normal man with wife and children were delibrately left out. Instead Constantine the great opted for versions that panited Jesus as the devine son of God. He may very well be, but let his diviinity be measured by truth told by those who new him, not by a General, and scribes who would later write a photoshoped version of the bible.

True

code9:

@nodogma:
Your own part of Hell will be a well furnished three bedroom apartment if you don't change your ways soon. I Pray on your behalf brethren.

I thought the bible said "do not Judge"?

Threats and angst just because his belief system is different from yours, is that what Christianity is about?

And people wonder why "Some" blow themselves up.

Insert Quote
Quote from: hilli666 on Today at 08:21:27 PM
Why cast pearls before swines? Or books in the midst of illitrates? The poster is actually correct, many of the acient books that painted the true picture of Jesus, as a normal man with wife and children were delibrately left out. Instead Constantine the great opted for versions that panited Jesus as the devine son of God.  He may very well be, but let his diviinity be measured by truth told by those who new him, not by a General, and scribes who would later write a photoshoped version of the bible.

I was watching this short documentary on the books the siblings wrote about Jesus. It is said that they did not see him as a God or the son of God but as a normal human being. .

code9:

@nodogma:
Your own part of Hell will be a well furnished three bedroom apartment if you don't change your ways soon. I Pray on your behalf brethren.

lool

Old issue , glad to see davidylan back. In the end we will all believe what we want to.

If you guys dont believe in God, what about miracles And the power of prayers?

THE ANTICHRIST IS HERE.The Holy Quran also talk about Jesus Christ,did they get there information from the same source?

3kay945:

If you guys dont believe in God, what about miracles And the power of prayers?  

Can you give an example of what you mean by miracle?  In regards to prayer, I do not believe in the power of prayer.  I believe that every prayer is self fulfilling.  If the outcome is what the person wants then God was merciful and answered the prayer.  If the outcome is not what the person wants then the explanation is given that it is God's will but the prayer was answered.  I believe that whatever happened was going to happen, prayer did not do anything.

Tofax:

The Holy Quran also talk about Jesus Christ,did they get there information from the same source?

Under which rock did you crawl out from? Surely you know Christianity preceded Islam (and Judaism both) and therefore picked a few things from the Bible (which of course wholesale lifted the Torah)?

Old story.

Just like dave said, if at the end I am wrong by believing in the bible and its teachings, of course, I lost nothing. But you better pray, we who believe, dont end up been right.

There are better ways to deal with your fear than coming here to fight against yourself.

End of story

bros1234:

Old story.

Just like dave said, if at the end I am wrong by believing in the bible and its teachings, of course, I lost nothing. But you better pray, we who believe, dont end up been right.

There are better ways to deal with your fear than coming here to fight against yourself.

End of story

This may be an old story to you, but you must understand that some people are newer to this site than others and may not have seen the previous discussions. Furthermore, if you are a devout Christian or believer, is your direction not to spread the word that you strongly believe in and possible explain it in a way that others who do not believe may come to understand? So, if I am posing to you some information that I have discovered that seems to refute the teachings of the bible, would it not make sense to explain how what I have found is false, as opposed to just saying who is right and who is wrong or who is going to hell? No one is dealing with any fear or fighting with one self. This is a discussion board made for the sharing of ideas and dialogue.

@ nodogma. what great men have said about the bible. " it is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible" George washington. " A studious perusal of the sacred volume will make better citizens, better fathers, and better husbands" Thomas Jefferson. "The Bible is more than a book; it is a living being with an action; a power which invades everything that opposes its extension" Napoleon Bonaparte. Some Proofs Bible is inspired. 1. The indestructibilty of The Bible. A whole kingdom and religion have sought in vain to destroy the bible. It is stiil the world best seller, intepreted into many languages. 2. It has blessed millions in every generation, made the highest civilizations, and given man the highest hope and destiny. 3, Good men must have written it, it condemns all sins and records the sins and faults of its writers as well as others. This, evil men would not write something like this. Even good men would not do it unless inspired to do so to help others.4. Miracles. Many that laid hold on the promise of the Bible, receive answers. Miracle stiil happens.5. Inexhaustible proofs. It would take many volumes to deal fully with the many thousands of facts which cofirm the bible to be the word of God. The book must be divine. If one will use it properly it will confirm itself to whosover used it as the inspired Word of God. This is a form of an excerpt from Dake refrence Bible. @ nodogma, you are just saying things you do not know. Find out, make research about the Bible, be open to people's opinion about the Bible. God bless. God2man. ns in every generation, made the highest civilizations, and given man the highest hope and destiny. 3, Good men must have written it, it condemns all sins and records the sins and faults of its writers as well as others. This, evil men would not write something like this. Even good men would not do it unless inspired to do so to help others.4. Miracles. Many that laid hold on the promise of the Bible, receive answers. Miracle stiil happens.5. Inexhaustible proofs. It would take many volumes to deal fully with the many thousands of facts which cofirm the bible to be the word of God. The book must be divine. If one will use it properly it will confirm itself to whosover used it as the inspired Word of God. This is a form of an excerpt from Dake refrence Bible. @ nodogma, you are just saying things you do not know. Find out, make research about the Bible, be open to people's opinion about the Bible. God bless. God2man.