davidylan:

Agnostic - an atheist with no courage in his convictions.

As simplistically defined by a simpleton.

I ahve had great fun reading the above comments. The author of this post should go back to school! Christianity and the bible are as real as life. Mr Author, have you ever thought about the origin of life?? Have you ever seen miracles, signs and wonders being performed in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, the Author and Finisher if my FAITH! Oh! I weep for you, for my bible predicted doom, and several kinds of beliefs in this dirty world in THE LAST SAYS! Ask God for mercy poor soul or you will definitely reap the fruits of your worthless labour at the end. [color=#000099]It's a pity to see you waste your time trying to falsify TRUTH.
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logica:

As simplistically defined by a simpleton.

that wasnt even a dictionary definition. Just an observation of mine. At least an atheist has the courage to claim there is no god (even without any definitive proof) . . . the agnostic? Just another coward.

davidylan:

Just an observation of mine.

And your observation is supposed to carry any weight, going by your obvious deficiencies, in, err, that entity with which sound observations are made?

davidylan:

that wasnt even a dictionary definition

LOL. You don't say, genius.

logica:

And your observation is supposed to carry any weight, going by your obvious deficiencies, in, err, that entity with which sound observations are made? LOL.

Ad hominems, the refuge of the naked emperor.

@logica, let's assume one ceases to exist after death. How would you know you missed the right way to have lived. Do you even remember anything while asleep?@logica, let's assume one ceases to exist after death. How would you know you missed the right way to have lived. Do you even remember anything while asleep?

davidylan:

Agnostic - an atheist with no courage in his convictions.

Ad hominems, the refuge of the Unclad slave.

Signed,
Davidlyan

mr.official:

@logica, let's assume one ceases to exist after death. How would you know you missed the right way to have lived. Do you even remember anything while asleep?@logica, let's assume one ceases to exist after death. How would you know you missed the right way to have lived. Do you even remember anything while asleep?

and you posed this questions to logica expecting to get a coherent response?  
Good luck.

mr.official:

@logica, let's assume one ceases to exist after death. How would you know you missed the right way to have lived.

Dude who's talking about life-after-death here? The trick is to know what you are missing before you die. "Soji yourself" as you guys like to say.

logica:

Ad hominems, the refuge of the Unclad slave.

Signed,
Davidlyan

i guess when all's lost, you just resort to abuse. no problem.

logica:

Dude who's talking about life-after-death here? The trick is to know what you are missing before you die. "Soji yourself" as you guys like to say.

Would you mind sharing what it is we are missing pls?

right back where we started. going round in circles saying nothing.

Davidlyan, kindly step aside and let people who have sensible gist to get on the floor.

logica:

Davidlyan, kindly step aside and let people who have sensible gist to get on the floor.

he asked you the EXACT same question i asked you. Nothing suggests to me that you have the answers.

Davidlyan, kindly step aside and let people who have sensible gist to get on the floor.

logica:

Davidlyan, kindly step aside and let people who have sensible gist to get on the floor.

I'm sure you could have answered his questions by now.
Using me as a decoy wont work.

The author of this article seems to be so definite in all his claims, a thing anyone can do. The problem that is making a lot of so-called thinkers, particularly the author of this article, to be prejudiced is that they indirectly base all their arguments on the unproven assumption that human mind can solve all problems. We can listen to all this stuff only after the assumption is found to be valid. In the case that the assumption is proven wrong, our author should not be definite in his claims; it would be better for him to rather say 'What I think is blah blah(I wont mention his blaspheming claims)' than to say the stuff boldly. Be warned

@logica, What is in this life? The Bible says, vanity upon vanity, all is vanity. Wouldn't you agree? Whichever way we live our lives, it's still gonna be = death. So if your belief is that human being ceases to exist after death. How would you know you missed a lot before death? I ask again, do you remember things you've missed in life while asleep? That's not an after life question. They say sleep is like a brother to death. Answer!

@davidlan, they were accidentally created. I can understand.

mr.official:

The Bible says, vanity upon vanity, all is vanity. Wouldn't you agree?

This already shows I am not going to get a logical argument, so Mr Official, I really have nothing to discuss with you.

There is one common mistake all atheists make: attempting to discern spiritual truths with physical senses. The things of the spirit will never make sense to carnal minds because the two realms, though related, are far apart. If anyone is looking for LOGIC or human sense in the bible, he/she will never find that. What you find recorded in the bible are at best snapshots and glimpses of the spirit realm that God permit people to have over a period of time in order to illuminate aspects of His divine nature for the benefit of all. The bible [or any spiritually oriented expose for that matter] can never make meaning or yield fruits to anyone who cling to his/her intellect as the ultimate yardstick of evaluating and interpreting things.


It is fruitless to argue with people to whom this glorious mystery has not yet been revealed, its like two frogs, one in a well another one outside, both arguing about the size of the moon. They will never come to an agreement until the one in the well is either helped out, or the one outside descends into the well

newdeal:

its like two frogs, one in a well another one outside, both arguing about the size of the moon. They will never come to an agreement until the one in the well is either helped out, or the one outside descends into the well

I am quite certain you are the frog in the well.  But I have no plans of descending BACK into the well I just managed to climb out of. Sorry.

^^^^suit urself and enjoy the ride while it lasts

@logica, We are not playing hide and seek. The author of this article dragged the bible along. Overlook where I quotted the bible and answer my question.

Whether you wake up tomorrow or not, we can assume the Sun will still shine and about 6 billion others will still go about their business. It's the same way with the "missing out on life" issue on which I really don't know why it's so difficult to grasp.

If your life is made uneventful and a waste akin to those humans you saw in the movie "The Matrix" lying comatose and with false lives injected into their subconscious, whether YOU know it or not, it is still a waste. Capisce?

Because even while you had been unable to observe for yourself, somebody was wide awake and had observed your life frittered away lying on a hospital bed, and with false scenic views and vistas injected into your psyche giving you the impression you are living, when you are actually just lying there comatose.

logica:

Whether you wake up tomorrow or not, we can assume the Sun will still shine and about 6 billion others will still go about their business. It's the same way with the "missing out on life" issue on which I really don't know why it's so difficult to grasp.

this is a classic example in extreme obfuscation and deliberate deception. Its difficult to grasp BECAUSE aside from repeating "missing out on life" 26 times, you really have YET to explain WHAT EXACTLY we are missing out of life.

logica:

If your life is made uneventful and a waste akin to those humans you saw in the movie "The Matrix" lying comatose and with false lives injected into their subconscious, whether YOU know it or not, it is still a waste. Capisce?

This is nonsense. I know a deeply conservative christian friend who is a mid-level guy at BASF, married to a paediatrician with a son here in the US. they have money, both are US/Canadian citizens/residents, enjoy great vacations, own property . . . so exactly what are they missing out in life? In what way has their life been a waste? Partying or drinking?

davidylan:

This is nonsense. I know a deeply conservative christian friend who is a mid-level guy at BASF, married to a paediatrician with a son here in the US. they have money, both are US/Canadian citizens/residents, enjoy great vacations, own property . . . so exactly what are they missing out in life?  In what way has their life been a waste? Partying or drinking?

This will be the last time I will respond to you because you are obviously obtuse. Anyway, so the quoted is your definition of living a good life huh?

From the Bible, I can tell Jesus did not have all of these (I don't think he was a US citizen, neither was he rich and neither did he go on vacations or owned property), yet he had a better life than your Mr BASF because he lived a more interesting and enlightened life (and I suspect modern day Christians probably do not even get his message considering the Gnostic interpretations, but I digress).

false scenic views and vistas injected into your psyche giving you the impression you are living, when you are actually just lying there comatose

A Chinese saying is "may you live in interesting times". "Interesting times" has been taken to mean a period of tumult, and not peaceful. There's a reason they cherish "interesting times".

logica:

This will be the last time I will respond to you because you are obviously obtuse. Anyway, so the quoted is your definition of living a good life huh?

I'm not surprised. Tired of running rings trying to prop up a collapsing non-argument? the emperor indeed has no clothes. What else is your own definition of a good life? Show us how praying 30mins a day means we miss out on all that. I can guarantee you that kind of middle class life is better than the one 90% of Nigerians will ever live in their life time.

logica:

From the Bible, I can tell Jesus did not have all of these (I don't think he was a US citizen, neither was he rich and neither did he go on vacations or owned property), yet he had a better life than your Mr BASF because he lived a more interesting and enlightened life (and I suspect Christians probably did not even get his message considering the Gnostic interpretations, but I digress).

Because idiot, when Christ was growing up He didnt have a country called USA (He did travel a lot though) neither did passports exist. He went on several vacations and He probably owned property through Joseph (at least Joseph had a carpentry business to pass on). My friend isnt rich either - wealth comes not in the amount of money you have but how richly your life is rewarded by what you have.

What do you mean by Christ living a "more interesting and enlightened" life? enlightened in what? Interesting in what? Dumb.

logica:

A Chinese saying is "may you live in interesting times". Interesting times has been taken to mean a period of tumult, and not peaceful. There's a reason they cherish "interesting times".

And what have the above to do with what christians miss out of life? Do we miss interesting earthquakes, bars, beer, having 20 gfs at once and the freedom to be generally irresponsible? I sure dont.

Oh dear, such an awkward name for a guy who certainly has a problem thinking straight. thick as a tree.

These arguments

ramalot:

The biggest thing you can wish anyone is that they have the ability to think for themselves.

LOL. That's asking for way too much. You shouldn't expect anybody who has come to believe that the middle-class perks of house, car, vacations et cetera define a good life can actually think straight talk less of think for himself. The modern Christian is a selfish man whose sole purpose in life is to live better than the Jones'. See what he had to say:

"I can guarantee you that kind of middle class life is better than the one 90% of Nigerians will ever live in their life time." He forgets that the same 90% he mocks are actually religious (Christians and Moslems). I am yet to see a lower class Agnostic or Atheist. But then, I wonder why he probably thinks I am one of the 90% he speaks of. It's not shocking though; that's the modern Christian's way of thinking - "I live better than you because I have a car, a house and 2 kids".

I just made a comparison above between a middle-class "successful" Christian and Jesus himself and see the response I got. I cannot imagine that any Christian will believe he or anybody for that matter is living a more interesting life than the originator (if not the creator since Jesus never asked people to become Christians) of his faith. How can a none-entity spoke-in-the-wheel compare to a man who billions purport to follow, and how can anybody claim he is more enlightened that the man he follows?

He first talked about the perks of middle class life as success yet I threw him the curve-ball of comparison to Jesus and of course, expectedly he swung wildly and struck out.

Also, I am baffled that someone defending the Christian faith and the Bible seems to know so little, as I will outline:

1. Where in the Bible was it mentioned that Jesus went on vacations? Can anybody mention those vacation spots? LOL
2. Jesus was a man of meager means and basically lived off of donations from followers. He shunned riches.
3. Joseph's carpentry practice could not have been so successful judging by the manner in which the Pharisees referred to Jesus in John 6:42. Joseph was very much a POOR carpenter.
3. Even if there was no US in Jesus' time, he was not a Roman either (which was the equivalent of the US at the time), and and of course we know they crucified him even if it was against their will. But anybody with a little sense will get where i was going by mentioning that Jesus did not have US citizenship, after all our resident clown had to tell us of his definition of a "good life".

One minute you say your friend is living the good middle-class life which for you is an example of success and the next you say "wealth comes not in the amount of money you have but how richly your life is rewarded by what you have", then I wonder if your brain has fallen out of your skull (that's if you had any to start with).

If you think you (or anyone for that matter) is living a more interesting and enlightened life than a man you purport to follow, you must be a fool.

logica:

LOL. That's asking for way too much. You shouldn't expect anybody who has come to believe that the middle-class perks of house, car, vacations et cetera define a good life can actually think straight talk less of think for himself. The modern Christian is a selfish man whose sole purpose in life is to live better than the Jones'. See what he had to say:

God knows everyone and his dog has asked that you define this "good life" you claim we all miss out on. These are but examples . . . and by no means an exhaustive list. But of course considering the skeptic isnt here really to debate but to push his metaphysical ideas down the throats of others, it would be "beneath" him to answer simple questions.

See - games skeptics play.

logica:

"I can guarantee you that kind of middle class life is better than the one 90% of Nigerians will ever live in their life time." He forgets that the same 90% he mocks are actually religious (Christians and Moslems). I am yet to see a lower class Agnostic or Atheist.

See also - games skeptics play.

logica:

I just made a comparison above between a middle-class "successful" Christian and Jesus himself and see the response I got. I cannot imagine that any Christian will believe he or anybody for that matter is living a more interesting life than the originator (if not the creator since Jesus never asked people to become Christians) of his faith. How can a none-entity spoke-in-the-wheel compare to a man who billions purport to follow, and how can anybody claim he is more enlightened that the man he follows?

this individual of course made no such "comparison". But you certainly dont expect a skeptic to be truthful do you? Obviously not. For if a skeptic were truthful for one second, the complete incredulity of his position is exposed. Note also how the skeptic vaguely says Christ had a better life because He lived an "interesting" life. Dont expect the skeptic to ever tell you what the term "interesting" here means in context.

Expecting a skeptic to be plain is like pulling teeth.

logica:

He first talked about the perks of middle class life as success yet I threw him the curve-ball of comparison to Jesus and of course he swung wildly and struck out.

The skeptic gets bogged down so easily in his own grandiose ego play. For starters . . . to compare middle class life in 2011 with one in AD 10 for example is just too ludicrous to be considering . . . but of course . . . how do we expect a skeptic to see the error of his own ways when his head is too far up the clouds?

logica:

Also, I am baffled that someone defending the Christian faith and the Bible seems to know so little, as I will outline:

1. Where in the Bible was it mentioned that Jesus went on vacations? LOL
2. Jesus was a man of meager means and basically lived off of donations from followers. He shunned riches.
3. Joseph's carpentry practice could not have been so successful judging by the manner in which the Pharisees referred to Jesus in John 6:42. Joseph was very much a POOR carpenter.
3. Even if there was no US in Jesus' time, he was not a Roman either (which was the equivalent of the US at the time), and and of course we know they crucified him even if it was against their will. But anybody with a little sense will get where i was going by mentioning that Jesus did not have US citizenship, after all our resident clown had to tell us of his definition of a "good life".

So yet again our resident skeptic of course in his quest to "prove" his own intelligence will consider this yet another "curve ball" . . . but of course we shall see . . . in the answers to his "questions" . . .

1. Jesus went up to the mountains several times by himself to pray. That alone is a vacation . . . i suppose our skeptic here thinks "vacations" mean trips to cancun only.

2. Jesus indeed shunned riches . . . because He came for a SPECIFIC purpose - to die for the sins of man. Since other christians do not do so, they continue with the charge "occupy till i come". The book of acts also lists several christian apostles who were clearly rich indicating riches is itself no barrier to the christian faith. But of course our resident skeptic is certainly too intelligent to know all these.

3. John 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? Interesting how our resident skeptic here deduced that Joseph's carpentry practice was not successful from this single verse that had absolutely nothing to do with joseph or capentry anyway. This was about pharisees openly mocking Christ's claim that He came before Moses (see prior verses) when they knew His parents and the circumstances of His earthly birth.

4. It gets even sillier by the minute. Not only is this part incoherent. it is largely a poor attempt to save face. Not only is it incredible dumb to be comparing 2011 to the year AD 1, what makes for a good life here (by nigerian standards at least) is clearly not the same as when Jesus was alive.

logica:

One minute you say your friend is living the good middle-class life which a sign of success and the next you say "wealth comes not in the amount of money you have but how richly your life is rewarded by what you have", then I wonder if your brain has fallen out of your skull (that's if you had any to start with).

Again you are left wondering what the sole purpose of the skeptic is. It certainly seems more an attempt to "win" the debate even if it means insulting your opponent and making incredible leaps of judgement! Wealth is relative . . . a middle class american family on $500,000pa is NOT rich by any standard but is comfortable enough to live a standard of living many times higher than any rich individual in nigeria. You dont need $50bn to live comfortably . . . but of course our resident skeptic knew this . . . he had to say something contradictory no?

logica:

If you think you (or anyone for that matter) is living a more interesting and enlightened life that a man you purport to follow, you must be a fool.

The day the skeptic defines his meaning of a more interesting or enlightened life . . . pigs might fly across a window.

But for now we'll just let him ride on with his meaningless words.

Here is the commentary for the resident mor.on from Christians who lecture you:

http://bible.cc/john/6-42.htm

And they said, is not this Jesus the son of Joseph?,  From murmuring they go to mocking and scoffing at his parentage and descent, and object this to his coming down from heaven; and intend by it to upbraid him with the meanness of his birth, being the son of Joseph, a poor carpenter; and suggest, that it was great arrogance in him to claim an heavenly original, and to ascribe such things to himself, that he was the bread of God, and the bread of life, and came from heaven:

LOL @ "Jesus went up to the mountains several times by himself to pray." = Vacations. LMAO! Guys, the best vacation you can have is to go to MFM to pray all night. What a wonderful vacation. Take pics please.

logica:

Here is the commentary for the resident mor.on from Christians who lecture you:

http://bible.cc/john/6-42.htm

If the "logical" fellow posting the above were smart enough to read for 2 secs rather than regurgitating without thinking, he would realise the verse says NOTHING about Jesus or Joseph's financial status. Infact the only way we read such is through the commentary (i.e. another man's subjective opinion NOT the very bible itself).
the commentary is NOT a part of the verse.

logica:

LOL @ "Jesus went up to the mountains several times by himself to pray." = Vacations. LMAO! Guys, the best vacation you can have is to go to MFM to pray all night. What a wonderful vacation. Take pics please.

I suppose "vacations" mean just one thing to one-track minds. Men have been known to take mountain vacations to pray - my uncle being one. But of course . . . what do we expect from a skeptic? Perhaps we need to get him a dictionary too.