This question needs serious and intelectual debate. The Biblical Abraham we know is equally known as Ibrahim in Arabic world. Is he a Jew or an Arab? Pls support your argument with concrete evidence

Arabs and Jews are from the same family tree. They are both both called the semitic people (Semites) being descendants of Shem.

^^^^^^^^^^ The question, you did not answer because you know the truth will destroy Judaism and Christianity as religions or heirs to what God had with Abraham [Ibrahim as].

Who gives a rat's behind whether Abraham was a yoruba or a zulu? Who is that person that is willing to waste his/her intellect debating such an irrelevant topic?

Abmalcom:

This question needs serious and intelectual debate. The Biblical Abraham we know is equally known as Ibrahim in Arabic world. Is he a Jew or an Arab? Pls support your argument with concrete evidence

he's neither.

irrelevant question.

For all I care he can be a Martian , not that the stories are real anyway.

Biblical explanation makes it cléar that, The Jews are descendants of Abraham’s son Isaac.
WHILE Arabs are descendants of Abraham’s son Ishmael. [b]With Ishmael being the son of a slave woman According to Genesis 16:1-16  and Isaac being thé promised son who would inherit the blessings of dad, Abraham [/b]Genesis 21:1-3, Certainly, ther would be some animosity btw the two sons. As a result of Ishmael’s mocking Isaac (Genesis 21:9), Sarah talked Abraham into sending Hagar and Ishmaèl away (Genesis 21:11-21).

Likely, this caused even more contempt in Ishmaèl’s heart towards Isaac.
Even an angel prophesied to Hagar that Ishmael would live in hostility toward all his brodas (Genesis 16:11-12).its best to read the Genesis to get all the gist. I guess ABRAHIM is both, i ve not seen yet where it sated if he is ARAB OR JEW, but that of his ISAAC AND ISHMAEL, it is clear. the grave btw this two brodas is still on till date.

In addition, the religion of Islam, to which a majority of Arabs are adherents, has made this hostility more profound. The Quran contain some contradictory instructions for Muslims regarding Jews. at one point, it instructs Muslims to treat Jews as brodas and at another and same time commandéd Muslims to attack Jews who refuse to convert to Islam. This is happening. The Quran also introduces a conflict as to which son of Abraham was truly the son of promise. The Hebrew Scriptures say it was Isaac. The Quran says it was Ishmael.
argument here and then etc, The Qura teaches that it was Ishmael whom Abraham almost sacrificed to the Lord, not Isaac (I TOTAL DISAGREE) in contradiction to Genesis chapter 22). This debate over who was the son of promise contributés to the hostility today.

However, the ancient root of bitterness between Isaac and Ishmael does not explain all of the hostility btw Jews and Arabs today. In fact, for thousands of years of Middle Eastern history, Jews and Arabs lived in relative peace and indifference towards each other. The primary cause of the hostility has a modern origin. ABRAHAM may be both or none.

tpia@:

he's neither.

irrelevant question.

No be fight na!

^^are you fighting?

not sure why you're addressing me.

@ topic

irrelevant question.

he's neither.

tpia@:

^^are you fighting?

not sure why you're addressing me.

Maybe i sound fighting, but actually not, its al about the bible why fight?? Sorry anyway.

apocalypse:

For all I care he can be a Martian , not that the stories are real anyway.

Don't compare the fairy tale jew to Martians!!! At least Martians exist!

You exist now !!!


The million dollar question is , will you exists forever ?

What happens when you breath your last ?

plappville:

Biblical explanation makes it cléar that, The Jews are descendants of Abraham’s son Isaac.
WHILE Arabs are descendants of Abraham’s son Ishmael. [b]With Ishmael being the son of a slave woman According to Genesis 16:1-16  and Isaac being thé promised son who would inherit the blessings of dad, Abraham [/b]Genesis 21:1-3, Certainly, ther would be some animosity btw the two sons. As a result of Ishmael’s mocking Isaac (Genesis 21:9), Sarah talked Abraham into sending Hagar and Ishmaèl away (Genesis 21:11-21).

Likely, this caused even more contempt in Ishmaèl’s heart towards Isaac.
Even an angel prophesied to Hagar that Ishmael would live in hostility toward all his brodas (Genesis 16:11-12).its best to read the Genesis to get all the gist. I guess ABRAHIM is both, i ve not seen yet where it sated if he is ARAB OR JEW, but that of his ISAAC AND ISHMAEL, it is clear. the grave btw this two brodas is still on till date.

In addition, the religion of Islam, to which a majority of Arabs are adherents, has made this hostility more profound. The Quran contain some contradictory instructions for Muslims regarding Jews. at one point, it instructs Muslims to treat Jews as brodas and at another and same time commandéd Muslims to attack Jews who refuse to convert to Islam. This is happening. The Quran also introduces a conflict as to which son of Abraham was truly the son of promise. The Hebrew Scriptures say it was Isaac. The Quran says it was Ishmael.
argument here and then etc, The Qura teaches that it was Ishmael whom Abraham almost sacrificed to the Lord, not Isaac (I TOTAL DISAGREE) in contradiction to Genesis chapter 22). This debate over who was the son of promise contributés to the hostility today.

However, the ancient root of bitterness between Isaac and Ishmael does not explain all of the hostility btw Jews and Arabs today. In fact, for thousands of years of Middle Eastern history, Jews and Arabs lived in relative peace and indifference towards each other. The primary cause of the hostility has a modern origin. ABRAHAM may be both or none.

Perfectico !

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ While it is not a fight, he gave the correct answer, while you gave the most ridiculous answer, and then follows it up with  more ridiculous explanation.

[Quote]« #6 on: Today at 08:22:45 PM »
Biblical explanation makes it cléar that, The Jews are descendants of Abraham’s son Isaac.
WHILE Arabs are descendants of Abraham’s son Ishmael. With Ishmael being the son of a slave woman According to Genesis 16:1-16 and Isaac being thé promised son who would inherit the blessings of dad, Abraham Genesis 21:1-3, Certainly, there would be some animosity btw the two sons. As a result of Ishmael’s mocking Isaac (Genesis 21:9), Sarah talked Abraham into sending Hagar and Ishmaèl away (Genesis 21:11-21).[/Quote]Every child is known by his father's bloodline. And only the bastard can't not claim inheritance from the father. We see that neither situation occurred in the case of Ishmael, based on how his father loved him. I often say that no king gives her daughter away as a bond or slave woman to anyone. I see that the Jews who wrote your Bible have confounded you with the worst case scenario about Ishmael and Isaac so that they justify their being a chosen people.

Isaac did not participate in the "covenant" between God and Abraham. Ishmael did. It will be injustice to say that the one God allowed to participate, He then disbarred him from the benefit. Before I analyze your Bible, did you notice that nothing evil came to Ishmael throughout his life, while Isaac was blind, had the worst kind of a wife, conniving with a son to both deceive the husband, Isaac against a hard working and loyal son, Esau?

I wonder what animosity developed between Ishmael and Isaac? Ishmael waxed stronger and definitely more blessed than Isaac, if you look at the history of the two, their immediate children, their grandchildren and even now. Ishmael did not envy Isaac and rightfully so. So I wonder what is meant by being the promised son? If a 14 year old boy mocked his 1 year old brother, and the mother of the 1 year old request that the older brother be sent out, there is no father that will stand for such a garbage request. I am a father and so I know. I love my first child. And no other child I will love more than the first child.

I could have told you the reason for Ishmael and his mother leaving the house, I believe you are not ready to hear it, yet. So to come back to the Bible, believe me, if Sarah was the reason that Abraham sent good son Ishmael and loyal younger wife Hagar away, no muslim would have that name, Sarah. We could have looked at her as we look at Pharaoh, or at least Judas Iscariot. So, the islamic position is that Sarah had nothing to do with how and why Ismail [as] and his mother ended up in Makka. Interestingly, the Bible erroneously states that Ishmael was at least 13 years old before the event took place, but disgraces itself by referring him as a little child, helpless when the water ran out. A 13 year old should be along side his mother looking for water, not helpless while his old mother is concerned about drinking water for both.



[Quote]Likely, this caused even more contempt in Ishmaèl’s heart towards Isaac.
Even an angel prophesied to Hagar that Ishmael would live in hostility toward all his brodas (Genesis 16:11-12).its best to read the Genesis to get all the gist. I guess ABRAHIM is both, i ve not seen yet where it sated if he is ARAB OR JEW, but that of his ISAAC AND ISHMAEL, it is clear. the grave btw this two brodas is still on till date.[/Quote]brodas? Name 2 brothers. And how did Ishmael show any hostility to any of his brodas? I have to laugh here because of the absurdity of the Bibles. Did anyone notice that such a prophesy from the angel did not come true? So i say the angel was a fake angel with a fake prophesy.



[Quote]In addition, the religion of Islam, to which a majority of Arabs are adherents, has made this hostility more profound. The Quran contain some contradictory instructions for Muslims regarding Jews. at one point, it instructs Muslims to treat Jews as brodas and at another and same time commandéd Muslims to attack Jews who refuse to convert to Islam. This is happening.[/Quote]If we transfer the 'hostility' to today, since the "hostility' is not substantiated in the time of Ismail and isaiq [AS to both of them], we have to see that the one who hands of his neighbors were upon, always were the children of Isaac. Do you remember Esau and Jacob how they 'love' each other, how the nazis love the children of Israel, the jews? Has the children of israel ever known peace? Makka was never invaded without the invader getting defeated. Abraha was a good example. And the statement of the Quran about children of israel as believers in a relative sense to the jews as disbelievers is clear. It all boil down to belief and disbelief. Disbelievers are frowned upon by God in the Quran. And believers are the opposite of that.



[Quote] The Quran also introduces a conflict as to which son of Abraham was truly the son of promise.[/Quote]Imagine Abraham sneaking out Isaac from under the lady boss Sarah? That will be impossible. And little Isaac would not have served the purpose anyhow, because the story of Quran is more believable considering that muslim make an annual sacrifice to commemorate this event. The Jews, believe me would make a bigger annula event of it, if it was isaac because even the Macabees defeat of the assyrian/syrians is a big holiday for them. Imagine the sparing of the life of their father?



[Quote] The Hebrew Scriptures say it was Isaac. The Quran says it was Ishmael.
argument here and then etc,  The Qura teaches that it was Ishmael whom Abraham almost sacrificed to the Lord, not Isaac (I TOTAL DISAGREE) in contradiction to Genesis chapter 22). This debate over who was the son of promise contributés to the hostility today.[/Quote]The bold shows your position, without substantiated reasoning. Muslims do not project falsehood considering that the mother of Jesus was considered to be the best woman in the world wide world. It tells you that at least it is an order from God which Muhammad [as] must not refuse, otherwise his mother would have been suited to be called by him the best woman in the whole wide world.



[Quote]However, the ancient root of bitterness between Isaac and Ishmael does not explain all of the hostility btw Jews and Arabs today. In fact, for thousands of years of Middle Eastern history, Jews and Arabs lived in relative peace and indifference towards each other. The primary cause of the hostility has a modern origin. ABRAHAM may be both or none.[/Quote]Yet in the earlier part of your post you said completely opposite. You just cut and pasted, too?

^^^^

Believe what you will. Convert to Christianity to save your soul. For their will be wailing and gnashing of teeth on Judgement day. Christ is lord and he died for all our sins.

Abraham is the father of nations and Isaac the father of Israel (God's chosen people that he used to bring the good news of Christ's mercy).

We believe I'm Christ and our faith will prevail in the everlasting life that is to come. True Christianity does not force converts. Many are called but few will answer. On Judgment day, don't say you were not told.

^ a few typos in the above but I'm sure you get the message.

very child is known by his father's bloodline. And only the bastard can't not claim inheritance from the father. We see that neither situation occurred in the case of Ishmael, based on how his father loved him. I often say that no king gives her daughter away as a bond or slave woman to anyone.

But Abraham was not married to Hagar. So she was not his wife !!!!!

I see that the Jews who wrote your Bible have confounded you with the worst case scenario about Ishmael and Isaac so that they justify their being a chosen people.

Ah okay, so it is corrupted by the Jews as well, right. ? So the bible was corrupted before Muhammad in the 1st and 2nd centuries because that is when the Jewish authors wrote the new testament.

Keep on confusing yourself !!!

Isaac did not participate in the "covenant" between God and Abraham. Ishmael did.

Nope, another usurping lie from Satan and his cohorts.

Isaac was the child of promise.

Tell me how the child of a slave will be preferred over the child of the wife.

Only Muhammad could have crafted such a subtle deceitful lie.

It will be injustice to say that the one God allowed to participate, He then disbarred him from the benefit. Before I analyze your Bible, did you notice that nothing evil came to Ishmael throughout his life, while Isaac was blind, had the worst kind of a wife, conniving with a son to both deceive the husband, Isaac against a hard working and loyal son, Esau?

There was no injustice, God is sovereign. He blessed Ishmael as well , but the promise of the seed through which mankind will be saved was the child of the Wife , Isaac and not the child of the bond woman Hagar.

I wonder what animosity developed between Ishmael and Isaac? Ishmael waxed stronger and definitely more blessed than Isaac, if you look at the history of the two, their immediate children, their grandchildren and even now.

Where did you get this fable from.

Jesus Christ came through the seed of ISAAC as a blessing to mankind and for the salvation of humanity.

Ishmael never had any spiritual connotation to his name !!!

Except of course you mean physical blessings .

Ishmael did not envy Isaac and rightfully so.

I might have to agree with you here, I guess he was just mischievousness, maybe at the beckoning of his mother Hagar to humiliate Sara.

I could have told you the reason for Ishmael and his mother leaving the house, I believe you are not ready to hear it, yet. So to come back to the Bible, believe me, if Sarah was the reason that Abraham sent good son Ishmael and loyal younger wife Hagar away, no muslim would have that name, Sarah.

She did the right thing to fulfil scripture.

But what do the Scriptures say about that? "Get rid of the slave and her son, for the son of the slave woman will not share the inheritance with the free woman's son." - Galatians 4:30

"and she said to Abraham, "Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac." - Genesis 21:10

Isaac implies God's grace and plan for salvation for mankind.

Ishmael implies Man's own way and plan for salvation which falls far short of the requirements of GOD and so ISLAM is false because it is Man's way to please GOD which has already fallen short of GOD's requirements.

@JamesDoe: « #15 on: Today at 09:56:14 PM »
[Quote]^^^^

Believe what you will. Convert to Christianity to save your soul. For their will be wailing and gnashing of teeth on Judgement day. Christ is lord and he died for all our sins.

Abraham is the father of nations and Isaac the father of Israel (God's chosen people that he used to bring the good news of Christ's mercy).

We believe I'm Christ and our faith will prevail in the everlasting life that is to come. True Christianity does not force converts. Many are called but few will answer. On Judgment day, don't say you were not told.
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Re: Is Abraham An Arab Or A Jew?
« #16 on: Today at 09:57:54 PM »

^ a few typos in the above but I'm sure you get the message.[/Quote]I don't mind the typo. I am certain you know that the Bible, a book you believe in 100% says Jesus will reject some people who even performed miracles in his name. Those people are christians. Are you one of them? Are you a christian? Are you sure of the fact that you will not gnash your teeth?

I have a new viewpoint, now. I want any christian who believes in what he or she writes about Jesus to swear to it by a curse against him/herself. No christian will do it. Aletheia the father of hypocrisy have been dancing around it. I am sure you will too. Even frosbel will. All of you are big time hypocrites like your father the liar paul who was a killer from the beginning.

based on this claim by sweetnecta - Isaac did not participate in the "covenant" between God and Abraham. Ishmael did.

If this is true . . . answer me these 4 questions:

1. Why does the lineage of ishmael disappear off the face of both the bible AND the quran soon after the book of genesis?

2. Why did Allah select ALL his alleged MAJOR and MINOR prophets from the lineage of the son who was not part of the covenant?

3. Where are the prophets from the line of ishmael who is the alleged covenant child?

4. Can allah have a covenant with a slave?

The case of Frosbel is the case of an ignoramus. I think he buries his head in the play yard sand box.

I have no response for you because it will fly over your head.

Even Jewish rabbis know that Ismail [as] was blessed. And Islam that was completed on his bloodline is blessing.

@Joagbaje; « #19 on: Today at 10:33:40 PM »
[Quote]based on this claim by sweetnecta - Isaac did not participate in the "covenant" between God and Abraham. Ishmael did.

If this is true . . . answer me these 4 questions:[/Quote]After the answers, will you benefit yourself or you will act like a donkey with a load of books on him, but all he does is make an arse[y] noise?



[Quote]1. Why does the lineage of ishmael disappear off the face of both the bible AND the quran soon after the book of genesis?[/Quote]The writers are jews and their tribal prejudice showed through. They call you goyam or goyah to mean gentile, uncircumcised. Are you circumcised? Are the children of israel the only circumcised people? I don't know about the children of Esau, the older brother o Israel. But I do know that the children of Ismail [as], specifically, the muslims among them are circumcised. That is even considering the Bible alone, we see that based on OT, the Jews denied the prophet-hood of Jesus. The denial of the prophetic office of Jesus should be enough to tell a thinking person that the Jews are untrustworthy. If they rejected their own tribal messiah, imagine what they do to write off people from other ethnic group, or groups?



[Quote]2. Why did Allah select ALL his alleged MAJOR and MINOR prophets from the lineage of the son who was not part of the covenant?[/Quote]Before Biblical Abraham, there were many real prophets. Noah is one of them unless you say he was not a prophet? In the lifetime of Abraham, we noted that Lot was also a prophet. Islam says that Ismail and Isiaq [as] were both prophets, establishing islamic monotheism of God, or do you believe Isaac believed in Trinity of the christians? Islam is continuous and there was no Judaism or Christianity, until after the death of King Solomon for Judaism and after the alleged death of prophet Jesus for christianity.

Someone will have to prove to us all that Adam all the way to Joseph and even beyond had no religion. And Moses was a religious jew with all the rituals of today's jews. I will be waiting to read about his minora lighting, his yum kippur, rosha shana, etc celebrations. I will laugh at you for being a complete ignoramus.



[Quote]3. Where are the prophets from the line of ishmael who is the alleged covenant child?[/Quote]Just for a moment, if Jesus was not the best from among the children of israel, he would have came before those who came before him. or do you disagree? The best is always a single shot and it is always the last shot. The last for mankind is chosen from Ismail [as[] and thats what matters. His prophetic office and message covers all and its unchanging. It is in the original, easy on the tongue of all.



[Quote]4. Can allah have a covenant with a slave?[/Quote]Silly statement and sillier writing. The God Whose Name was not mentioned in the Bible until He says "I AM" to Moses took time to let Ishmael be the child of the time of covenant, while Isaac was much later. I guess you see the removing of the foreskin as for nothing, though it is the "sign" of the covenant. I AM didn't wait for Isaac, though, after his birth Abraham managed to remain alive for another 50 years! That should tell you who was the covenant son, participating in it. A slave that is trust worthy is better than a fake son who neither by adoption or being sired is a son. We are all slaves, except you are making yourself a son. But you will find out when you are numbered among the slaves.

Sweetnecta:

The writers are jews and their tribal prejudice showed through. They call you goyam or goyah to mean gentile, uncircumcised. Are you circumcised? Are the children of israel the only circumcised people? I don't know about the children of Esau, the older brother o Israel. But I do know that the children of Ismail [as], specifically, the muslims among them are circumcised. That is even considering the Bible alone, we see that based on OT, the Jews denied the prophet-hood of Jesus. The denial of the prophetic office of Jesus should be enough to tell a thinking person that the Jews are untrustworthy. If they rejected their own tribal messiah, imagine what they do to write off people from other ethnic group, or groups?

What about the quran? Where the writers tribally prejudiced jews too? [size=13pt]Why does the lineage of ishmael disappear off the face of the quran soon after the story of abraham??[/size]

Sweetnecta:

Before Biblical Abraham, there were many real prophets. Noah is one of them unless you say he was not a prophet? In the lifetime of Abraham, we noted that Lot was also a prophet. Islam says that Ismail and Isiaq [as] were both prophets, establishing islamic monotheism of God, or do you believe Isaac believed in Trinity of the christians? Islam is continuous and there was no Judaism or Christianity, until after the death of King Solomon for Judaism and after the alleged death of prophet Jesus for christianity.

After Abraham and Ishmael, [size=13pt]Why did Allah select ALL his alleged MAJOR and MINOR prophets from the lineage of the son who was not part of the covenant?[/size]

Sweetnecta:

Just for a moment, if Jesus was not the best from among the children of israel, he would have came before those who came before him. or do you disagree? The best is always a single shot and it is always the last shot. The last for mankind is chosen from Ismail [as[] and thats what matters. His prophetic office and message covers all and its unchanging. It is in the original, easy on the tongue of all.

[size=13pt]Where are the prophets from the line of ishmael who is the alleged covenant child?[/size] No less than 30 are selected from the tribe of Isaac . . . did allah forget ishmael the so-called child of the covenant?

Sweetnecta:


Silly statement and sillier writing. The God Whose Name was not mentioned in the Bible until He says "I AM" to Moses took time to let Ishmael be the child of the time of covenant, while Isaac was much later. I guess[b] you see the removing of the foreskin as for nothing, though it is the "sign" of the covenant[/b]. I AM didn't wait for Isaac, though, after his birth Abraham managed to remain alive for another 50 years! That should tell you who was the covenant son, participating in it. A slave that is trust worthy is better than a fake son who neither by adoption or being sired is a son. We are all slaves, except you are making yourself a son. But you will find out when you are numbered among the slaves.

I have my foreskin removed and i was not physically there when Abraham was getting the covenant.

[size=13pt]Can allah have a covenant with a slave?[/size] Why didnt he reserve a similar covenant for mohammad?

Joagbaje^^^^^^^^^^^^ you are already dismissed, because i see you that you have no ability to spiritually process the truth.

Sweetnecta:

Joagbaje^^^^^^^^^^^^ you are already dismissed, because i see you that you have no ability to spiritually process the truth.

what is spiritual about wondering why allah ignored the covenant son and picked virtually all his prophets from the line of the irrelevant son as islam claims?

why is the quran silent on this covenant ishmael but has plenty to say about isaac and his sons?

People continue to worship a piece of black stone like idols, follow the tenets of a moon god and come here and talk.

It is not by force. Christianity does not compel me to cut off your head, unlike Islam. I am just concerned for your soul.

Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, save your soul and seek deliverance before it is too late.

God bless.

@ , necta

You seem literate and thirsty for knowledge yet you have eyes but cannot see.

The word of God and the love of the holy spirit is written in your heart, look deep within yourself and find the deliverance.

God does not seek harm or wickedness for his children, God does not need others to fight his battles. God's words always come to pass and the Heavens and Earth will bear witness that Jesus is the son of God, from the House of David. David is a descendant of Isaac.

Ismael's line has been blessed with oil but their greed means that is not enough for them. So rather than seek God's deliverance they choose to make war and terror to claim Isaac's inheritance.

@Martian
lol , sorry about that , would never disrespect a brother.

Both ethnic groups descended from Abraham. The Arabs through Ismail and the Jews through Isaac- chikena!

He was neither. He probably never existed

ujukala:

@Rgp92 what do you mean?

Belive it or not, but the story about Abraham is just a myth.