DesChyko:


You're not really being realistic. Are you also mindful that this information of yours I'm responding to is 'written on the web'?

Stoplying:

1) No Benin "oral tradition" told Edo people that they learnt how to cast from Ife. So that part of the documentary is just a lie. I guess the narrators got duped by some guys in Ife and didn't even care to actually ask the palace of Benin.
2) the documentary also makes a lot of unsubstantiated claims such as "it is thought to be 800 years old", that is not exactly a scientific statement, is it ?
3) the narrators were just trying to generate interests for the Ife head, that is why they linked it to Benin and linked it to Benin bronzes. In order to create excitement for the Ife head, you have to claim it predates Benin bronzes and those who made it thought Benin how to make Bronzes.
4) the narrators did a very poor historical work, they basically did zero research and just blabbed out Yoruba folkloric fairytales about Benin in order to make Ife head look interesting. Benin bronzes don't need to be attached to anything other than Benin to be interesting, but Ife head needs to be attached to Benin bronzes or else nobody cares about Ife head 😅
5) I bet you guys thought we would fall for this scam of a video because the narrators are white ...try again later 😂
6) white crooks in the art industry are so annoying

7) I am yet to see a Yoruba attempt legitimately to prove his Ife claims with logic and historical rigor, it is always about: "this white man says it" or "this newspaper says it" or "oral tradition"... Come on, we are more educated than this, bring out eyewitness written docs like everybody else has to.

8. I didn't watch beyond time stamp 4:32 because it had become obvious by then that the documentary is not a serious work with regards to history or truth, but just a video trying to create excitement for the Ife head by linking it to Benin bronzes and by claiming without any proof that the bronze is 800 years old "thought to be 800 years old" and that Benin learnt iron casting from Ife, no proof provided, instead the narrator claims my oral tradition says so, not only do I disagree, but I also understand that the use of "oral tradition" is a way to make an unsubstantiated claim and look credible without ever having to prove it.

Trizyd:
Lol, 🤣🤣🤣 you dismissed videos and somr arguments here and your reason was that they were from white people.

Stoplying:

That wasn't my argument, are you blind or just stupid?

Trizyd:


And your comment on the pictures and maps and google screenshots is?📢

Stoplying:

Are you actually asking me to repeat my comments which you can already access on this topic ?

Trizyd:



So in conclusion, when you where presenting your arguments, you brought out facts, picture evidences(maps) not made by you or your kinsman but by white people who owns the research and are the owners of what you use.

THE SAME PEOPLE THAT RAIDED YOUR EMPIRE?

Stoplying:

I presented documents written by people who witnessed my ancestors. The ethnicity of those who wrote them is irrelevant, all that matters is that they witnessed my ancestors which none of us alive today did !

Also for your info, not that it matters, none of those documents were written by British people and they were written hundreds of years before 1897.


As for the photos, they could have been taken by the devil for all I care...so long the photos are showing my people in the period of time which I am interested in.


I really fail to get your point eventhough I am trying really hard. I don't throw away evidence because of the colour of the skin of the person who provided the evidence.

Trizyd:



Which documents please? All you showed here where not possible to have been obtained during those era. All you just posted here are what you heard or what someone too heard as well. The only the note worthy was the arts that the empire had and no one is disputing that even someone else here made mention of it, I can also add the fragments of the man made wall around the city too. Awesome structure, nothing else again. All these maps, graphics and screenshot you are using to prove a point is nonsense. I can ask chatgpt and stability to get me something similar.

A little bit about the history of Lagos
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=150215;2
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b530530714/f1.item.r=Royaume%20du%20Benin.zoom

Stoplying:


And the photos are from either 1897 either before 1897

Trizyd:



Please house, what does this statement mean? And map reader's and all, how are those maps related to Ancient Benin Empire. I'm not so learned in reading maps and French.

Trizyd:



Please house, what does this statement mean? And map reader's and all, how are those maps related to Ancient Benin Empire. I'm not so learned in reading maps and French.

Stoplying:
Eyewitness writen precolonial text stating clearly that Lagos belongs to Benin:

"Captain Horseley called it Eco, and that is how the yebous refer to it; but it is not their land: it belongs to Benin, whom have named it Korame, you can recognise the Curamo from older Portuguese reports, just like Eko represents the Ichoo from Holland Hydrographs. Long ago Korame was linked to its metropolis by a very narrow piece of land contained between the great Laguna and the sea; but it has been a while since the Yebous have seazed that very narrow piece of land of which the eastern extremity was invaded by ouyo pirates; and Karamé remained isolated at the extremity of the great Laguna, while it continues to receive from Benin it's governor or political chief."

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5806879x.r=Y%C3%A9bou?rk=21459;2

Precolonial map of the region showing that Lagos (in its currents form) and its environs were part of Benin (see below)
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=150215;2


Conclusion: Lagos and its environs were part of Benin.

I am not interested in debating things which have already been proven. Also I am not interested in talking to people whom have been harrassing me. (I also want to add that I am actually the only person whom has commented here who actually speaks french and that I am the person who posted the french caption and the book from which it is to nairaland. Some delusional people who don't speak a word of frecnh were trying to "debate" me on the translation of the text several months ago. Fools can only fool other fools.)

NaMe4:


'Prospered from 1200 to 1800' does NOT mean the kingdom started existing in 1200!

This 'prosperity' had to do with expansion, commercial activities with increased trading with transatlantic merchants and high activity of slave trading, which abolishment began in the 1800s; the period when the British colonialists arrived.

Similar activities also occurred in the Ife and Oyo empires within this period. These empires, just as the Benin empire, existed centuries before this period you mentioned.

Finally, these arguments are baseless because historical facts have shown a relationship between the 'Yorubas' and the 'Edos'; artifacts and other forms of documented history reveal this. And I've not come across any Edo person bothering him/herself about such issues/topics which are repeatedly opened on Nairaland in order to cause unnecessary arguments.

What Edo needs to focus on today is how to foster development across the State socially, politically and economically in order to be a people to reckon with.

Stoplying:

He actually is completely right, the web is 99/100 garbage.

Trizyd:



So in conclusion, when you where presenting your arguments, you brought out facts, picture evidences(maps) not made by you or your kinsman but by white people who owns the research and are the owners of what you use.

THE SAME PEOPLE THAT RAIDED YOUR EMPIRE?

Odogwuzack:


You guys should have controlled your feelings when you left the history which is the bone of contention and started insulting a whole tribe.

I'm sure your negative energy is still tied to your recent election defeat.

NaMe4:


'Prospered from 1200 to 1800' does NOT mean the kingdom started existing in 1200!

This 'prosperity' had to do with expansion, commercial activities with increased trading with transatlantic merchants and high activity of slave trading, which abolishment began in the 1800s; the period when the British colonialists arrived.

Similar activities also occurred in the Ife and Oyo empires within this period. These empires, just as the Benin empire, existed centuries before this period you mentioned.

Finally, these arguments are baseless because historical facts have shown a relationship between the 'Yorubas' and the 'Edos'; artifacts and other forms of documented history reveal this. And I've not come across any Edo person bothering him/herself about such issues/topics which are repeatedly opened on Nairaland in order to cause unnecessary arguments.

What Edo needs to focus on today is how to foster development across the State socially, politically and economically in order to be a people to reckon with.

Stoplying:

1) when was Ife an empire ?
2) oyo was a small kingdom
3) nobody noticed oyo or Ife as being empires!
4) the body of water is called Bight of Benin for a reason
5) Oyo doesn't even have artefacts
6) which "historical facts" have shown a relationship between the "yorubas and the Edits" ?
7) "artefacts" show a link between Yoruba and Edos ? Are you kidding me ?



Although there are some people whom are from Benin empire but currently identify as Yoruba for the sake of politics: the people of Ondo state and ekiti state are examples.

Ttalk:


Your argument is childish and deserves no response. No Yoruba is here to prove anything to you. We know our history and culture, we are a great people in Africa and South America, we have fought many wars and built kingdoms and cities of which Bini is just a sub-kingdom of the great Yoruba people, the Egbas, Ijebus Aworis have more settlements area than your over-bloated Bini, we are not I a measuring contest with you, let your Oba deny his yorubaness then I will listen to you

PoloG:
Instead of this tiny bini people to think of the problem affecting them like how to stop their whorish women from disgracing africa in Italy or their cursed lazy cultist and yahoo boys,

Na to dey compare with people wey nor send them

Stoplying:
I will never understand Yoruba obsession about my people. They always claim us eventhough we say no, they don't know the first thing about us, they don't even know their own history, they make it their mission to always misspell our name.
In order to escape their slave ancestry they made a fake past for themselves with some flying super-oduduwa and included us in their story because they need something authentic to stand on.

Vado2:



The Yorubas are primarily descendants of ex-slaves who moved from South America. Because they received a western education, they exploited it as a weapon to fabricate history and utilized cunning and treachery to gain relevance. The Oyo-Empire legend is all folklore. You refer to an empire that ruled over Dahomey, Contonu, and portions of the Upper Volta as a sub-kingdom? To overthrow the empire, they had to wage war. You must be joking I guess.

Vado2:


In order to make the So-called Oyo empire gain credibility, they constantly attempt to link it to the legendary Benin empire. In the early 1400s, the Benins were already a unified and well organized people. We had a bustling trading relationship with the Portuguese and were one of Africa's largest empires. The great Oyo empire was vanished at that time. Just out of nowhere, the vast Oyo kingdom appeared?

phineas:
Hope you all know that ife has been one of the largest archeological research sites globally in the last 5 years.

phineas:

Here's a tip for you all ...buy land in ife, foreigners are doing so already.by the time those publications are made public after peer review. Ife will be viewed as a holy and revered city that it is globally.

Stoplying:

There was never an Oyo empire.

phineas:


The fact that an African child write this is deeply disturbing. In view of the fact that history and archaeology clearly documents the existence of 3 oyo kingdoms so far (by location). Each one lesser in might and grandiosity than the previous one.And yes there is still an Oyo kingdom today

How do you all not know this?

Stoplying:

1) present your source
2)...