Lovely, I can see where the Igbos from the ofala ceremony got their idea.

@ topic

i noticed the ifa divination trays seem to be mostly oval or round, with a few square ones on occasion.

does the shape represent the cyclic universe, the sun, or what exactly?

please keep the explanation as simple and straightforward as possible, for anyone who wants to reply.

In answering this question, I have no scholastic analysis to share but I can give a living mystical explanation that will add tremendously to the pool of knowledge. Let me know first your temeprament for accomodating a non-scholastic answer to a mystical question.

^^not sure what my temperament is yet until i check my temperament chart [or see your answer- either one].

but you can give it a shot as long as its simple and easy to follow with no intentionally vague interpretation.

.

^^not sure what my temperament is yet until i check my temperament chart [or see your answer- either one].

but you can give it a shot as long as its simple and easy to follow with no intentionally vague interpretation

Aww C'mon tpia, let me enjoy myself.

Well, I will tell you what, it won't matter how I give it there will be contentions. Reason being that there are certain things you first need to know and understand before I ever discuss the tray. In discussing the tray I intend to also discuss the crown and the consciousness. So I will give you a lengthy but interesting read on the journey of that tray and that crown. Will that work for you?

go ahead.

Tpia,

Of all the people in here on this discussion, you are the only one, since I started on the story line of the roots, who has accompanied me along on the narrations. You are intimate with all my assertions beginning back when we discussed the person of Lamarudu, Nimrod, Al' Marud, Noah, Qahtan, Yarib, the Phoenicians, Atlas, Atala, Obatala and so on and on. . . . Against that backdrop, I want you to open your mind as you read this account and whatever you make of it becomes your truth.

THE HISTORY OF THE YORUBAS

PART I



Chapter I
ORIGIN AND EARLY HISTORY

The origin of the Yoruba nation is involved in obscurity. Like
the early history of most nations the commonly received accounts
are for the most part purely legendary. The people being un-
lettered, and the language unwritten all that is known is from
traditions carefully handed down.

The National Historians are certain families retained by the
King at Oyg whose office is hereditary, they also act as the King's
bards, drummers, and cymbalists ; it is on them we depend as
far as possible for any reliable information we now possess ;
but, as may be expected their accounts often vary in several
important particulars. We can do no more than relate the
traditions which have been universally accepted.

The Yorubas are said to have sprung from Lamurudu one of
the kings of Mecca whose offspring were : — Oduduwa, the ancestor
of the Yorubas, the Kings of Gogobiri and of the Kukawa, two
tribes in the Hausa country. It is worthy of remark that these
two nations, notwithstanding the lapse of time since their separa-
tion and in spite of the distance from each other of their respective
localities, still have the same distinctive tribal marks on their
faces, and Yoruba travellers are free amongst them and vice versa
each recognising each other as of one blood.

At what period of time Lamurudu reigned is unknown but
from the accounts given of the revolution among his descendants
and their dispersion, it appears to have been a considerable time
after Mahomet.

We give the accounts as they are related : —

The Crown Prince Oduduwa relapsed into idolatry during his
father's reign, and as he was possessed of great influence, he drew
many after him. His purpose was to transform the state religion
into paganism, and hence he converted the great mosque of the
city into an idol temple, and this Asara, his priest, who was himself
an image maker, studded with idols.

3



4 THE HISTORY OF THE YORUBAS

Asara had a son called Braima who was brought up a Moham-
medan. During his minority he was a seller of his father's idols,
an occupation which he thoroughly abhorred, but which he was
obliged to engage in. But in offering for sale his father's handi-
work, he usually invited buyers by calling out : " Who would
purchase falsehood ? " A premonition this of what the boy will
afterwards become.

By the influence of the Crown Prince a royal mandate was issued
ordering all the men 'to go out hunting for three days before the
annual celebration of the festivals held in honour of these gods.

When Braima was old enough he seized the opportunity of one
of such absences from the town of those who might have opposed
him to destroy the gods whose presence had caused the sacred
mosque to become desecrated. The axe with which the idols
were hewed in pieces was left hanging on the neck of the chief idol,
a huge thing in human shape. Enquiry being made, it was soon
discovered who the iconoclast was, and when accosted, he gave
replies which were not unUke those which Joash gave to the
Abiezrites who had accused his son Gideon of having performed
a similar act {see Judges vi, 28-33). Said Braima, " Ask that huge
idol who did it." The men replied, " Can he speak? " " Then,"
said Braima " Why do you worship things which cannot speak ? "
He was immediately ordered to be burnt aUve for this act of gross
impiety. A thousand loads of wood were collected for a stake, and
several pots of oil were brought for the purpose of firing the pile.
This was signal for a civil war. Each of the two parties had
powerful followers, but the Mohammedan party which was hitherto
suppressed had the upper hand, and vanquished their opponents.
Lamurudu the King was slain, and all his children with those who
sympathized with them were expelled from the town. The Princes
who became Kings of Gogobiri and of the Kukawa went westwards
and Oduduwa eastwards. The latter travelled 90 days from
Mecca, and after wandering about finally settled down at He
Ifg where he met with Agb^-niregun (or Setilu) the founder of the
Ifa worship.

Oduduwa and his children had escaped with two idols to He
He. Sahibu being sent with an army to destroy or reduce them
to submission was defeated, and amongst the booty secured by
the victors was a copy of the Koran. This was afterwards pre-
served in a temple and was not only venerated by succeeding
generations as a sacred reUc, but is even worshipped to this day
under the name of Idi, signifying Something tied up.

Such is the commonly received account among this intelligent
although unlettered people. But traces of error are very apparent


ORIGIN AND EARLY HISTORY 5

on the face of this tradition. The Yorubas are certainly not of the
Arabian family, and could not have come from Mecca — that is
to say the Mecca universally known in history, and no such
accounts as the above are to be found in the records of Arabian
writers of any kings of Mecca ; an event of such importance
could hardly have passed unnoticed by their historians. But
then it may be taken for granted that all such accounts and
traditions have in them some basis in actual facts, nor is the subject
under review exempted from the general rule, and this will become
apparent on a closer study of the accounts.

That the Yorubas came originally from the East there cannot
be the slightest doubt, as their habits, manners and customs, etc.,
all go to prove. With them the East is Mecca and Mecca is the
East. Having strong affinities with the East, and Mecca in the
East looming so largely in their imagination, everything that comes
from the East, with them, comes from Mecca, and hence it is
natural to represent themselves as having hailed originally from
that city.

The only written record we have on this subject is that of the
Sultan Belo of Sokoto, the founder of that city, the most learned
if not the most powerful of the Fulani sovereigns that ever bore
rule in the Soudan.

Capt. Clapperton {Travels and Discoveries in Northern and Central
Africa, 1822 — 1824) made the acquaintance of this monarch.
From a large geographical and historical work by him, Capt.
Clapperton made a copious extract, from which the following is
taken : — " Yarba is an extensive province containing rivers,
forests, sands and mountains, as also a great many wonderful
and extraordinary things. In it, the talking green bird called
babaga (parrot) is found."

" By the side of this province there is an anchorage or harbour
for the ships of the Christians, who used to go there and purchase
slaves. These slaves were exported from our country and sold
to the people of Yarba, who resold them to the Christians."

" The inhabitants of this province (Yarba) it is supposed
originated from the remnant of the children of Canaan, who were
of the tribe of Nimrod. The cause of their establishment in the
West of Africa was, as it is stated, in consequence of their being
driven by Yar-rooba, son of Kahtan, out of Arabia to the Western
Coast between Egypt and Abyssinia. From that spot they
advanced into the interior of Africa, till they reach Yarba where
they fixed their residence. On their way they left in every place
they stopped at, a tribe of their own people. Thus it is supposed
that all the tribes of the Soudan who inhabit the mountains are



6 THE HISTORY OF THE YORUBAS

originated from them as also are the inhabitants of Ya-ory. Upon
the whole, the people of Yarba are nearly of the same description
as those of Noofee (Nupe)^"

In the name Lamurudu (or Namurudu) we can easily recognize
a dialectic modification of the name Nimrod. Who this Nimrod
was, whether Nimrod surnamed " the strong," the son of Hasoiil,
or Nimrod the " mighty hunter " of the Bible, or whether both
descriptions belong to one and the same person, we cannot tell,
but this extract not only confirms the tradition of their origin but
also casts a side light on the legend. Arabia is probably the
" Mecca " of our tradition. It is known that the descendants of
Nimrod (Phoenicians) were led in war to Arabia, that they settled
there, and from thence they were driven by a rehgious persecution
to Africa. We have here also the origin of the term Yoruba,
from Yarba, their first permanent settlement in Africa. Yarba
is the same as the Hausa term Yarriba for Yoruba.

It is very curious that in the history of Mahomet we read of
a similar flight of his first converts from Mecca to the East Coast
of Africa (the first Hegira), due also to a religious persecution;
this fact will serve to show that there is nothing improbable in
the accounts as received by tradition. Again, that they emigrated
from Upper Egypt to He Ife may also be proved by those sculptures
commonly known as the " Ife Marbles," several of which may be
seen at He Ife to this day, said to be the handiwork of the early
ancestor of the race. They are altogether Egyptian in form.
The most notable of them is what is known as the " Opa Orafiyan,"
(Orafiyan's staff) an obelisk standing on the site of Oraiiyan's
supposed grave, having characters cut in it which suggest a Phoeni-
cian origin. Three or four of these sculptures may now be seen
in the Egyptian Court of the British Museum, showing at a glance
that they are among kindred works of art.

From these statements and traditions, whether authentic or
mythologic, the only safe deductions we can make as to the mosit
probable origin of the Yorubas are : —

1. That they sprang from Upper Egypt, or Nubia.

2. That they were subjects of the Egyptian conqueror Nimrod,
who was of Phoenician origin, and that they followed him in his
wars of conquest as far as Arabia, where they settled for a time.
How subjects term themselves " children " or offspring of their

ORIGIN AND EARLY HISTORY 7

sovereigns is too well-known in this country, as we shall see in the
course of this history.

3. That from Arabia they were driven, on account of their
practising there their own form of worship, which was either
paganism or more likely a corrupt form of Eastern Christianity
(which allowed of image worship — so distasteful to Moslems).

Again, the name of the priest " Asara " is also a peculiar one ;
it is so much like " Anasara " a term which Moslems generally
applied to Christians (which signifies ' followers of the Nazarene ')
as to make it probable that the revolution spoken of was in con-
nection rather with Mohammedanism, and the corrupt form of
Christianity of those days.

Lastly, the sacred rehc called Idi from its being bound up and
preserved, and which is supposed to have been a copy of the
Koran, is probably another error. Copies of the Koran abound
in this country, and they are not venerated thus, and why should
this have become an object of worship ? The sacred book of the
party opposed to them ! One can hardly resist coming to the
conclusion that the book was not the Koran at all, but a copy of
the Holy Scriptures in rolls, the form in which ancient manuscripts
were preserved. The Koran being the only sacred book known to
later generations which have lost all contact with Christianity
for centuries after the great emigration into the heart of Africa,
it is natural that their historians should at once jump to the
conclusion that the thing bound up was the Koran. It might
probably then be shown that the ancestors of the Yorubas, hailing
from Upper Egypt, were either Coptic Christians, or at any rate
that they had some knowledge of Christianity. If so, it might offer
a solution of the problem of how it came about that traditional
stories of the creation, the deluge, of Elijah, and other scriptural
characters are current amongst them, and indirect stories of our
Lord, termed " son of Moremi."

^^can you post the source for this?

not sure if it's samuel johnson.


i think i've come across some of this material before, a long time ago.

There are two sources and yes i can post one comfortably.

Here you go: http://www.archive.org/stream/historyofyorubas00john/historyofyorubas00john_djvu.txt

i think i've come across some of this material before, a long time ago

So why do you still have doubts of the origins?

Negro_Ntns:

So why do you still have doubts of the origins?

thought i replied this earlier.

guess it didnt go through.


i have to carefully go through all the information since most of it takes a while to analyze.

On their way they left in every place they stopped at, a tribe of their own people

that's quite possible, all things being considered.

tpia@:

i wonder what the 123 studded nails stand for.

i'd like to hazard a wild guess and hypothesize they could be indicating different stops along a journey?

no one knows for sure though.

^^The Opa Oranmiyan is thought to be a phallic symbol, similar to other, smaller obelisks found at Ife. These smaller phallic symbols are used in Ogun worship, representing Ogun's masculine nature, according to the below book "Yoruba: Nine Centuries of African Art and Thought."



An excellent book for those who want to know about the art and aesthetics of the Yoruba people is "Yoruba: Nine Centuries of African Art and Thought" by Henry John Drewal and John Pemberton III with Rowland Abiodun.

On the "Opa Oranmiyan."

Carved of granite gneiss, Opa Oranmiyan stands over 18 feet (plus 1 foot underground) and is studded over much of its length with spiral-headed iron nails arranged in a three-pronged forklike configuration.  Where they branch into three lines, a low-relief, open, rectangular form rises from the surface of the stone.  This arrangement of nails is probably not merely decorative, but has a symbolic significance that has been lost over the centuries.  Each nail would have been laboriously inserted into the granite before the stela was raised.

The stela, like several others associated with Ogun at Ife (Figure 49), which vary in height from 1 to 4 feet at various sites in the town, is phallic in form.  A hole and engraved lines at the tip of the Oranmiyan "staff" confirm its phallic identity.  This general conical shape may relate all these stelae to the cone-shaped icons (see Chapter 1), and to conical forms associated with heads in terracotta (see Figure 66).

From Yoruba: Nine Centuries of African Art and Thought

lakal:

^^The Opa Oranmiyan is thought to be a phallic symbol, similar to other, smaller obelisks found at Ife. These smaller phallic symbols are used in Ogun worship, representing Ogun's masculine nature, according to the below book "Yoruba: Nine Centuries of African Art and Thought."



An excellent book for those who want to know about the art and aesthetics of the Yoruba people is "Yoruba: Nine Centuries of African Art and Thought" by Henry John Drewal and John Pemberton III with Rowland Abiodun.

^^i suspect it could have multiple symbolism, due to the 123 nails studded in it.

usually, phallic symbols/obelisks tend to be plain, with maybe some graphics.

the legend says oranmiyan's sons erected it after his death.

that would tie in with his travels, like those of his father, and whatever quest led them to found kingdoms.

also, obelisks are usually four sided. It would be nice to know why this one is round.

lakal:

On the "Opa Oranmiyan."





From Yoruba: Nine Centuries of African Art and Thought

those trees around the obelisk- any idea what species they are?

cant be mangrove since those grow in swamps.

when were they planted and by who.

has the rock used to make the obelisk been analyzed- where did it come from.

tpia@:



^^i suspect it could have multiple symbolism, due to the 123 nails studded in it.

usually, phallic symbols/obelisks tend to be plain, with maybe some graphics.

the legend says oranmiyan's sons erected it after his death.

that would tie in with his travels, like those of his father, and whatever quest led them to found kingdoms.

also, obelisks are usually four sided. It would be nice to know why this one is round.

You have to remember that the authors of that text compared the Opa Oranmiyan to very similar shapes found elsewhere in Ile-Ife.  There are smaller stone conical shapes found at places like Ogun Oke Mogun, used in Ogun worship.  Even the conical shape is found in certain Ife terracottas, such as this one.

[img]http://www.mcah.columbia.edu/dbcourses/africa/thumb/africa1_066.jpg[/img]

With our non-written traditions, we cannot definitively state what the Opa Oraniyan was built or not built for.  Even if it was raised by Oranmiyan's sons after his death, it might have additional ritual or artistic significance that we do not know.

On the symbolic issue, at least in India, many of their phallic symbols (lingam) are decorated or carved, so that is not to say that it [b]must [/b]be plain.

lakal:

You have to remember that the authors of that text compared the Opa Oranmiyan to very similar shapes found elsewhere in Ile-Ife. There are smaller stone conical shapes found at places like Ogun Oke Mogun, used in Ogun worship. Even the conical shape is found in certain Ife terracottas, such as this one.

[img]http://www.mcah.columbia.edu/dbcourses/africa/thumb/africa1_066.jpg[/img]

With our non-written traditions, we cannot definitively state what the Opa Oraniyan was built or not built for. Even if it was raised by Oranmiyan's sons after his death, it might have additional ritual or artistic significance that we do not know.

On the symbolic issue, at least in India, many of their phallic symbols (lingam) are decorated or carved, so that is not to say that it [b]must [/b]be plain.

i'm just mainly guessing here, none of my opinions are set in stone. Not arguing your point at all.

i have doubts about the opa oranyan being an actual obelisk due to the round shape. It must be rounded for a reason, since it wouldnt have been that hard to make it four sided.

i already aggreed some obelisks can have graphic relief symbols on them. But the opa oranyan has nails, not figures.

now, my next question is does anyone know the constellation directly above the staff.

With our non-written traditions, we cannot definitively state what the Opa Oraniyan was built or not built for

our traditions rely on symbols rather than writing.

so the symbols are what need to be deciphered, and this is very hard.

comparison with opa oranyan:

ancient nabta sundial [located south of egypt or libya in the sahara desert]:



i suspect the small stones in the round circle are a modern rearrangement.





[img]http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/9804/nabta_uc_big.jpg[/img]

Anyone got picture of yoruba weapon and armours ?

[img]http://1.bp..com/_bUlZdWxNK7M/S1akIlyqBaI/AAAAAAAAAEY/2zDQHyON2Wg/s1600/swords.jpg[/img]

(below is via Wiki, so take with a grain of iyo)

The Ida is a kind of sword used by the Yoruba people of West Africa. It is a long sword with a narrow to wide blade and sheathe. The sword is sharp, and cuts on contact but begins to dull if not sharpened regularly. It can be single-edged or double-edged.

During wars, pepper and poison are added to it to paralyze anyone who is cut by the sword. It can be wielded in any way (either one-handed or two-handed). The Yoruba people use this sword for hunting, war and other uses. The blade of the sword is in an elongated leaf-shaped form. It is designed for cutting and hacking.

There were many other variations of the Ida. The Yoruba also used many other bladed-weapons.

Some of them were;

Ada—Used for clearing brush, fighting, or hunting. It is similar to a cutlass or machete.
Obe—Daggers carried by the Yoruba soldiers.
Agedengbe—Single-bladed and eccentrically curved. Also quite heavy.
Tanmogayi—Similar to the sabre.

Some ceremonial and real weapons were also posted on page 5 of this thread:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-770881.128.html

Any picture about the war armour? Those weapon are daaamn sweet

tpia@:


those trees around the obelisk- any idea what species they are?

cant be mangrove since those grow in swamps.

when were they planted and by who.

has the rock used to make the obelisk been analyzed- where did it come from.

I recognise those trees. They are Banyan Trees and are strange beings with aerial prop roots.

They are reverred in many Pagan traditional cultures around the world, including Hinduism ( the resting place of God Krishna), Buddhism (as the tree under which the Buddha attained enlightenment), Chinese traditional religion (The Lam Tsuen Wishing Trees near the Tin Hau Temple in Hong Kong), Phillipinies Traditional Religion of the Tagalog and Visayan and other tribes ( abode of the Diwata/ nature spirits/Gods) and in Chamorro Tribal mythology ( also the abode of spirits).

I do not find it surprising that this tree is present in such a place in Yorubaland.

Great photos, Lakal.

On Yoruba weapons--there's a short book by JFA Ajayi and Robert Smith called "Yoruba Warfare in the 19th Century" that has a lot of useful information on warriors and their equipment at that time.

TerraCotta:

Great photos, Lakal.

On Yoruba weapons--there's a short book by JFA Ajayi and Robert Smith called "Yoruba Warfare in the 19th Century" that has a lot of useful information on warriors and their equipment at that time.

Excellent book.

Keep it coming gents. Excellent thread.

[img]http://hum.lss.wisc.edu/hjdrewal/Ife3.jpg[/img]

Ife terracotta.

Child of Obatala (creation divinity).  The sculpture probably depicts a ritual specialist indicated by the bead on his forehead and the skull pendant.

Actually the sculpture depicts the Yoruba rendition of the Ancient Egyptian god Bes (below). Note the similarity of features and skull necklace. This dramatically depicts the continuity among ancient Yorubas with their Nile Valley heritage.

Negro Ntns said:

Amor4ce,

Regarding that sketch, there are two important things to consider.

1. who drew the sketch ?

If it was done by a white man illustrating his surface experience of Africa and Africans, then it should be taken in the same general regard to their written record of Africans.

If it was done by a black man illustrating the oral history and traditions of a people, then it has greater authenticity and can be taken as part of historical collection.

2. in Nigeria there were three Empires - Oyo Empire, Bini Empire and Bornu Empire. The three are inter-related and share root source. Therefore rituals, customs and traditions will not too be different.

When you look at Ashanti, it was a break-off from Sudan. So I am not surprised to find an Ashanti or a Songhay or a Massina priest wearing ephod.

I want to raise a controversy and declare that Epha, Ipha, Ifa, Eepha are all the same and derived from ephod.

Very interesting. I would also add the Igbo OFO to that list. It is the central symbol in Igbo spirituality, held in the form of a staff. The Ephod was manifested both as something that could be worn, and as something that was carried, as shown by the wiki description below:



Even the ephods used for oracular purposes were not necessarily just pieces of cloth, as they are not described as being worn, but carried (though some translations render 1 Samuel 2:28 as wear an ephod rather than carry an ephod); the Hebrew term used in these passages for carry is nasa, which specifically implies that the Ephod was carried either in the hand or on the shoulder. The conclusion thus is that Ephod, in these cases, referred to a portable idol, which the lots were cast in front of; some scholars have suggested that the connection between the idol and the garment is that the idol was originally clothed in a linen garment, and the term Ephod gradually came to describe the idol as a whole.

Other scholars suggest that the ephod originally refers to a container for the stones used to cast lots and later became associated with many objects that also could contain the stones or were used in divination.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephod

Indeed, the Ifa divination tray (Opon Ifa) could also be considered an Ephod.

Madam rgp92

the thread is not a competition with your bini one, ok?

You are understandably attached to bini since its your hometown but there's no need to develop anxiety attacks over yoruba art.

I'm trying to be accommodating here since no one person can claim a monoploy on the thread, but try to disabuse your mind of the notion that the thread must copy the bini one word for word.

That's a very silly and juvenile way of thinking if you ask me.

So, learn to respect other people's views and learn to be civilized in your discourse.

If what you need is male companionship due to loneliness, then there are plenty of males in sexuality and romance sections who can help youwith that.