@Physique, since a mere 45,000 are not needed in Edo state why can't Edo state cede Igbanke land to Delta state without the Igbanke clamoring for it? It should be that simple. I am sure Igbanke leaders are also to be blamed because there is no history of them protesting their inclusion as part of Edo state hence making them a tiny minority. The Bini from what I know also only remember them during elections then dump them. They are highly marginalized and neglected and receive a lot of services from neighboring Delta North instead of Edo. Why is Edo state not willing to simple create a separate Igbanke LGA instead of lumping them with other groups? I am sure if Igbanke ppl asserted their Igbo identity more they won't be in their current situation.

udezue:

@Physique, since a mere 45,000 are not needed in Edo state why can't Edo state cede Igbanke land to Delta state without the Igbanke clamoring for it? It should be that simple. I am sure Igbanke leaders are also to be blamed because there is no history of them protesting their inclusion as part of Edo state hence making them a tiny minority. The Bini from what I know also only remember them during elections then dump them. They are highly marginalized and neglected and receive a lot of services from neighboring Delta North instead of Edo. Why is Edo state not willing to simple create a separate Igbanke LGA instead of lumping them with other groups? I am sure if Igbanke ppl asserted their Igbo identity more they won't be in their current situation. 

I agree with most of what you said actually, especially the last part.

Government ignoring large communities in Edo south, Edo central or Edo north is not based on ethnicity though. I think that's a misconception.

If it was up to me, Igbanke would be ceded, but the different factions need to reach an agreement, and make it clear unanimously to the government of Edo state that they really prefer to leave. Only the actual Igbanke people can resolve where they stand and make it unequivocally and indisputably clear to others.

Hmmm. . .does everybody still get emails notifying them when someone has responded to a thread they've posted in?

Anyway, I'm sure he'll be back with more stories and fables. . .

haha, you all want to carry your arguements from the cultural section to this section.
I hope when he replies, the thread wont go roll up to at least 20pages.
I dey watch una arguement. Let it begin.

@Physics of lies and deceit,
1)Ogbuefi  a liar , very funny , I bet you dont even know what Ogbuefi means and why I choose to bear that name, I think that title suits you " Physics of lies and make believe " , Physics is the foundation of the sciences and has nothing to do with with the arts and the culture especially one derived from unwritten sources and speculation.  I deliberately refused to read anything posted on Nairaland for some months because those chiddish and provocative statements of yours might tempt me to waste my precious time to write. Of course I do leave fora like this (when it pleases me  and I did that on NBF) for very the stupid and foolish so that they can "enjoy" the idea  of being the " sun "and others are the "planets". I left Omojie because he clealy falls into this category and your case is so pathetic , and you know why ? I think you are brilliant but writing on fora like this will definitely take you nowhere .You may think you are "educating "  people but you are just wasting your time . You claim that you are in school I know you love your people but the only way you can really help them is to face your education and try to make the best out of it.People especially Nigerians are very stubborn with their own opinions even when its apparent that they are wrong.One of my Cameroonian friends told me this fact some years ago.He said no doubt Nigerians are very enterprising but the problem with them is that everyone wants to be a hero. Of course I have seen some of those "heroes" that have taken writing on Nairaland/NBF as a new territory to conquer.I wish them the best.

When I see fools I just leave them so that they can be comfortable in their "paradise"  . Everything I debated with Omojie has come to past , Where is the Doris Uboh of this world ? He thought Igbodo has no say in Ikaland , where does the present Rep for the Ika people  come from ? I was the person who had exposed him when he had used the cover of being a native of Agbor to make some irresponsible claims. In Agbor the people are not happy with this Obi and you are free to brand it as lies but that is irrelevant to me. This is a highly respected  monarch whose mother has become a major stakeholder in the murky waters of politics which is an insult to the Agbor and the entire Ika people.  Considering how dramatic his father Obi Ikenchukwu had joined his ancestors it would have been imperative for the Obi to get married and produce a successor , but no way !  It is all abt money and power and the Obi who is first amongst equals in Ikaland is not living up to his role as the "father of all" I therefore donot think I should engage in a debate with such a person. I am beginning to understand that there are some people who are "landlords" of fora such as this where they will take the role of the teachers why others are here just to learn.

The primary reason I even came to nairaland was to challenge your fiery response  as regard the killings in Benin. I also donot think I even have much to write when you admitted that it was committed by a "small group" I was unimpressed when you denied that you never insinuated that Igbos are cannibals.  If that was the case I am lost why did you have to post such rubbish because it has no connection with what is being discussed here. But I know the real motive , if you like make more denials .I think you had behaved cowardly by such denials , come on admit it but I know you will not.  A true Edo man with so much pride yet so much cowardice. It was the cowardly act by your ancestors by killing some Europeans that led to the dramatic fall of the Benin "Empire" with the all powerful Oba fleeing to the bush to save his head. What could be more cowardly than that ? That  was in the era of Sultan Attahiru who died in war and in Islamic doctrine "died as a martyr" Please spare me those trash.  I just changed my mind about postponing my "lies and fabrications"  Of course I am not begging you to accept them just as I neva begged Omojie or accept whateva you have posted here. I dont even have any interest to write beyond this year on this thread because I can leave you as you engage on your "exposition of Benin Art"
In the same vain I will be left alone to meditate in the land of my ancestors , you know where, the forests full of legendry Igbodo leaves, plants you know provide oxygen and you are right about the air , hmmmmm  so fresh and invigorating .

If you think that refering me to forests or whatever would be an insult to my person or my community of origin, My boy you goofed big time !  In fact I take that as a compliment . I merely made references to the vast area occupied by Igbodo kingdom as compared to Owa when Omojie  attempted to belittle the communities of Ika East with a claim of who is the "majority" in the area a claim that is  foundationless.  But land area is something that is permanent and cannot be contested. The name Igbodo is derived form the forests which had in abundance a kind of plant used as a roofing material which had attracted my ancestors to the land some centuries ago.Thus if you say how is Igbodo the land of "forests"   Then I think that question is the most Idiotic I have ever heard in my life.
Igbodo by my calculation occupies an area of 200km2  out of about 500km2 in the entire LGA and our neighbours and beyond  flock to our community in search of farmlands , so wht  is wrong if I make a point out of that, For any sane person that is a perfect  case  but for the "Physics of Speculation and Lies" , it is just a perfect opportunity  to  pour venom, Hahaha you misfire in this one.
I know I dont come from the land of Edo ( a name of a slave or "servant" or Ile Ibinu now Benin ( land of vexation) and I say thank God for that.

When I saw you refer to me as "Nwanne" I said to myself see this idiot  that comes from the land of Iduu calling me "Nwanne"  My dear you are not my "Nwanne" , That word is reserved for people of the same ethnic stock like myself and this would mean that I consider Nd'Anioma as my Umunne and by extension the entire Igbo speaking world. Others are just what we call "Oyi" or "Osi" meaning friends but the people of Benin dont really fall into this category either following their acts of barbarism in 1967 which you even admitted though you claim it was orchestrated by a "small group" Small or large to me does  not really matter.
I dont own anyone apologies for declaring that the Benins are a bunch of tribalistic , callous and irresponsible people, Mind you I am not saying all of them would fall into the classification but the majority do and I dont care what you think of my own people. If some  Benins say they dislike the Anioma people for reasons best known to them that is their own problem. The fact is that the neighbours of Benin even those that are of the same Edo stock like them ie the Esan and Afenmai are not their  admirers and this is why full integration into one Edo nation( advocated by some Edo notables) will  just be a  pipedream. Even the Usen a Yoruba speaking people with an Edo culture have had enough of their irresponsibility and the Elawure of Usen would even prefer to be in Ondo State not because of the attraction of oil or whatever. Oh, I just remebered the issue of an Afemesan State which the Physics of lies declared as just "politics" , If there is anyone that should bear the title of chief political maverick  in Edo State that title clearly falls on this present Oba , an Oba putting on Ododo robes to place a "curse" on a sitting Guv simply because the man just want to be his own person not the one to be manipulated from the palace, Or have I forgotten the show of shame between the Oba and his Esama ? What could be more political than that ?
Indeed my grand mother is an Esan from Ewohimi a wealthy trader , she was one of those who had embraced Christainity and because of religious tension within  the community moved to a site which was exclusively Christain in those days. Igbodo and the Esan people remain very close friends and let me make this declaration that the Esan are different from the Benin eventhough both of them are of the same Edo stock.There had been serious settlement of Esanland by many people with Anioma origins and in our tradition the town of Ewohimi which I have some connection was founded by people from Mbiri (in Ikaland) which R.E Bradbury had identified in his book on Edo speaking people as "Agbor".

                             2)FABRICATIONS, WHO HOLDS THE TITLE  ?
I think the person who holds the title is the late Obakhavbaye of Benin Chief Jacob Egharevba   especially as it relates to the history of the Anioma people which is unfounded and it  proves that the work is more or less based on speculation.Let me bring to the fore some of his claims in that pamphlet.
1)The Story of Ovior
In an attempt to connect the present town of Obior to Benin in an account which will be acceptable to the highly sentive monarchical institution of Benin he cooked up the story of "Ovior", His account was not even dated though it was placed in that pamphlet between the two dynasty of rulers of the Benin kingdom.This would put it in the 12th century. Lies , Obior is derived from Obia Nk'Oma meaning he/she came for good in Igbo.This was shortened to Obioma and eventually to Obior. Obior and her husband Ukpali co reigned and most of the present indigenes of that community descend from this couple whose figurines would be seen in the community. Anioma people believe so much in genealogy and the present Obi of Obi of Obior, Obi Kingsley Ofuokwu 111 (installed since 1976) is the 16th on the throne and this would mean Obior was founded sometime in the 16th century by the patriach Eze Chime.
Though Eze Chime was ovbiously of Edo stock , the names he gave most of his children are clearly Igbo suggesting that he was thoroughly assimilated  as Onye Enuani.These are the names of his children Obioma which we know, Onicha named after a principal Anioma deity, Oligbo named after a shrub and Ifite so named because he was given birth in a course of a journey.It will also not surprise anyone who has idea on Igbo naming pattern that "Ifite" or "Ihite" goes with "Ezi" thus in Mbaise we have "Ezinihitte". In Anioma the son of Ezechime named Ifite founded Ezi.

2)On Oba Ozolua being the father of the Obi of Aboh
The Oba was said to have died in 1504 but Esumai the founder of Aboh was from account and genealogical evidence settled on the present site of Aboh in about 1600 while the Aboh kingdom was founded by Ogwezi in about 1650. I begin to wonder if Esume was over 100 years when he founded Aboh.Yet another evidence of speculation. Esume was a member  of the party that was led by Ezechime  in the 16th century and after the settlement of the upland area, a group moved southwards founding such clans like Aboh, Ashaka, Ossissa, Ase , Obetim and Ozoro (now an Isoko clan).From the names of the founders such as Etim, Ozoma, Osuntili, Oputa and so on , it clearly reveals that Esume is not a first generation migrant  since they had been thoroughly Aniomanized before moving towards the south .

3)Not satisfied with his fabrication on Oba Ozolua being the father of the Obi of Aboh( Esume the founder of Aboh did not even take the title of Obi).The acclaimed writer of Edo history wrote how two claimants to the throne   of Aboh  during the reign of Oba Eresoyen in about 1735 (I think) had asked the Oba to mediate.  Lies. In Aboh history the only time there was ever such a dispute was in the century before between Ogwezi and his brother Ugbo.This was only settled after a civil war which had forced Ugbo to settle in the newly founded town of Ogume( in Obodugwua qtrs).The Obi of Aboh does not fall into the category of the "Ada kings" used by Ikenna Nzimiro for the staff used by the Obis of Aboh had never being called "Ada" but "Nma Igbu" which had never been collected by the Obi from the Oba.

4)On Oba Akenzua1 being the father of the Obi of Issele Uku
Another speculation.The present Obi of Issele Uku , Obi Ezeagwuna 1 is the 16th Obi of the town(installed in 1995 - see the genealogical similarity with the lineage of the Obi of Obior).I am not here to claim that Issele Uku does not share some special similarities with Benin. In fact it is one of the "client chiefdoms" of the Benin kingdom and the relationship was mutual. Issele Uku was founded by the last son of Eze Chime but they were the first to receive the "Ada" from the Oba amongst the towns of Umuezechime. This has also been the reason why the Obis of Issele Uku go with the unfounded title of "Clan head of Umuezechime"    a title which should have used by the Obi of Obior or Obi of Onicha Ugbo. Onicha Ugbo on the other hand had neva being close to Benin since it was the forces of Oba Ehengbuda that had forced the Onicha people to retreat to their farms hence that name, Onicha Ugbo.
All Obis of Issele Uku descend from Oligbo via his son Obi Osoezebiwe and I am not aware that another dynasty that sprung up in Issele Uku  in the 18th century.The Obis desend from Oligbo and this is why the Obis of Issele are said to be on the throne of Oligbo its first Obi.

5)On Ezomo Agban being the origin of the name of Agbor
This is the most laughable of his claims, which Ezomo conquered Agbor and had it named after himself.  In our history Agbor had before the 16th century been known by that name. In Agbor history it was often a situation in which the community is named after strong and able rulers which had defended the kingdom from invaders.Thus Igidi and Agbor were just names of such rulers.These men had reigned before the enthronement of Dein in the 15th century thus Ezomo Agban could not have been the origin of the name Agbor. Agbor is an ancient kingdom and the name was deliberately chosen because her people felt tht the kingdom was the centre of the world.In addition , Agbor tradition holds it that the primary reason Oba Orhogbua had attacked Agbor was to avenge the humiliation of Oba Esigie and his mother Idia by Ezechime who had for a while settled in Agbor. In that attempt he failed woefully. And he withdrew his attention to other  chiefdoms  westwards .His son Ehengbuda was more successful , by this time he had launched from the Esan country and brought the Olukwumi people to his side thereafter destroying the original settlement of Onicha people. Issele sued for peace , then Obior in that order.There is little account to suggest he attacked Agbor since Agbor was said to have had a strong and able leader called Akina at that time( this was the same Obi who had waded off Oba Orhogbua's attacks)
It was interestingly during the reign of Oba Eresoyen that Agbor fell during the reign of Obi Mmodu who is claimed by tradition to be a weak ruler. The fabled wealth of Benin during the reign of Oba Eresoyen was nothing but loot from the riches of Agbor .But the respect and glory of Agbor was restored during the reign of Obi Mmodu successor Obi Obanor who expelled the invaders and established the garrison town of Ekuku Agbor to check the Benin garrison town of Urhonigbe .

6)On the story of Adesuwa war
Another nonsense, If indeed the Benin won the Ubulu  the Anioma people would have admitted it.There is really no shame to admit that you fought gallantly and lost a long war to the Benins. In Ogba (Rivers State) they admit that they were originally defeated by Aboh who had beheaded their first ruler. Any sane person will dismiss such story that a princess or a sweet heart of an Oba would travel 60 miles in the rain forest region to retrieve a debt over , Ok let me guess goats, !  I begin to wonder if a woman acclaimed to be the Oba's lover would be involved in distant trade involving the sales of goats. Was she a herder ? Or  was her trade in goats or when did she come in contact with the supposed traders from Ubulu Uku that made her embarked on a journey of 60 miles to retrieve debts on the sale of goats, Egharevba gave us a clue .He said she was bewitched by the Obi of Ubulu Uku who wanted her at all cost because of her beauty. And let me add that she must have sneaked from the palace and quietly embarked on that journey which should have taken her at least three days while her lover Oba Akengbuda who must have detected that his beloved had been bewitched waited for her just like that to return, Rubbish.
But what I find even more interesting was what led to her death.The pretty Adesuwa had rejected the advances of the lustful Obi and mocked his people as "bush people" I wonder if the Benin people were there when all of this occured.The Ubulu Uku people whose town the entire drama was set have their own version of events that led to the war.
The woman (Adesuwa) is question is a daughter of the Oba who had been married to the Obi of Ubulu Uku to seal a strong relationship which had been the case since the foundation of the Ubulu kingdom in the 13th century by Ezemu. But unknown to the Obi , she was involved in diabolic practices which had brought much turmoil in the palace .Initially the Obi was relunctant to accept that Adesuwa was the source of the problem in the palace even after she was exposed by divination. Of course nobody is above the customs of the land and she was executed not by beheading claimed by Egharevba but stoned to death a penalty reserved for those accused for witchcraft. It was several days after that the Oba learnt of her death and his anger was that she should not have been killed publicly and better still allowed to return to the land of birth and for this reason declared war on Ubulu Uku. This our own version and anyone who is reading both versions is free to adjudge on which out of the two is realistic. A  sneak out of the palace(afer being bewitched) to embark on a journey of 60 miles to retrieve debts over goats or a princess who had been killed for withcraft which had provoke the Benin royal family to avenge .
Ubulu Uku is not a client state of Benin like Issele Uku which is a much smaller and younger community.I read from somewhere where a proud Benin declared that Ubulu Uku was brought to "naught" and I laughed. Ubulu clan of which Ubulu Uku is its metropolis is a large community spread between Delta and Anambra states and I wonder if this is an evidence of a community brought to naught. By 1904 Ubulu Uku in her Ekumeku wars gave a stronger resistance to the colonialists than Benin City which had just 150 years earlier had "destroyed the town".The Obi of Ubulu Uku in 1904 did not have to hid in the bush for months before he was tried and deported to Calabar.
The said war between Benin and Ubulu Uku ocurred in 1750 just about the time Akengbuda was enthroned. I personally donot think that the "local manufacturing of firearms" commenced about the period he became Oba especially as we know that he was on the throne for a long period of 54 years. The Anioma states materially were not poor especially from the 1700s when strong trade contacts was established with the Europeans. The freed slave Olaudah Equiano even gave an insight of the relative prosperity enjoyed by the Anioma states and what I found most significant in his account was that the Oba's authority had by the 18th century dwindled in prestige in Aniomaland. Also by the 1700s the Anioma towns of Aboh and Ossomari (now in Ogbaru) had become the channels of trade between the Europeans and the hinterland peoples.  In Ossomari for instance the attached villages in the town all bear the names of the Anioma towns which had established strong trade relationship with her( especially those which were  connected with the slave trade) these are Igbuzor, Ogwashi and Okpanam. Ubulu Uku on the other hand was close to Ossomari rival and richer neighbour Aboh because of the strong connection both communities have with the trading  settlement  of Afor(now in Ndokwa East). I therefore wonder what is meant by "availability of resources" As student of history we know how the all powerful USA lost woefully in Vietnam despite the available resoures at their disposal  or how Italy lost in her colonial gamble in Ethiopia.
The Ubulu Uku people are explicit on how the Benins lost .The country was unknown to them and they were unfamiliar with the bush warfare tactics which the Anioma people were  experts. The Benins lost so many soldiers via ambush while the Obi and indeed most of the Ubulu people had moved to the trading town of Afor. In one instance , the Ubulu Uku people ensured that water and food items ( which are two neccesary needs of the weary Benin soldiers) were poisoned before they made the evacuation and the result was the decimation of the Benin imperial army.This was why the Oba in his desparation to bring Ubulu Uku to its knees sent for the Ogiugo who had a thorough understanding of the country.In anticipation of such attacks the Ubulu Uku renowned as great medicine had to resort to sorcery to wade off the Ogiugo who was a student of the School of Sorcery at Ubulu Uku after he had been treated of an incurable ailment by the same people he sought to destroy because of greed.
Of course there was no way an apprentice could beat a master in the same game. Our people say "Okwuru adi sofulu onye kwunaa" an Okro plant cannot be taller by the person who had planted it. The Ogiugo was captured along with those who had accompanied him  by spiritual means  and he pleaded with the Obi to spare his life . The Obi spared his life and allowed him to go just to inform the Oba that his latest attempt had failed. A few of the remaining soldiers refused to return and pleaded to be drawers of water and hewers of wood in Ubulu Uku. No problem with that and they were given some lands in the Ogbe section(the royal section) of Ubulu Uku. The servile status of these Benin settlers(in Onije and Idumudu) is a confirmation that the Benins did not win the war. Some of them fled to Ogwashi Uku were they founded what is now called OGBE IHAGO. They also share the same account with their folks who had taken up residence in Ubulu Uku.
Another evidence of the failed Edo gamble in Ubulu Uku comes from Ibusa. One Ezeji had before the Adesuwa war gone to the Oba to receive the Ada with the mandate of being the sovereign of the clan. Such a political revolution is a highly republican clan like Ibusa  naturally would be shaky but because of the exploits of the Benin over a large and rich chiefdom like Agbor(during the reign of Oba Eresoyen) , he was accepted with Ibusa assuming the role of one of such client states like Issele Uku. In the wars , many Benin soldiers had strayed to Ibusa and subjected the people to become betrayers of their fellow Anioma kith and kin  which they refused . Rather they were one of the chief supporters of the Ubulu and the Ibusa people after the wars began to question the supposed alliance with Benin facilitated by Obi Ezeji. It did not take a long time before the Ibusa monarch was deposed and he fled to Ejeme Unor( a sister community to Ibusa which had nonetheless accepted the monarchical system).
Thus when I was confronted with a "trophy head"  attributed to Oba Akengbuda, It was  so easy to dismiss it because it is not enough evidence that it was the head of a victorious Obi whose town has many monuments commemorating that historic feat. Afterall the Oba was confronted by the same Ogiugo who had been accused by the Oba of being "soft" on Ubulu Uku and for this reason had been asked to commit suicide .But the Ogiugo from the account of the Ubulu people decided to fight the his king with the hope that he could be supported by the Ubulu people.And that was his end.The Benins say he drowned ie committed suicide but that does not matter to the Ubulus. One simple question I will ask the "Physics of all knowledge" is a simple one.
Since the Ubulu were crushed , what now happened to the body of the '' beloved " Adesuwa  I will like to get a response from you since I am just a "neophyte"  The  point is that the Benins have their own version just as the Anioma people of Ubulu Uku have their own version.I learnt that Lancelot the film maker has produced the Benin version.This is a challenge to we the Anioma people and we have great movie producers to produce our own version.At least those who watch the two versions will be free to judge which is more authentic  and realistic in content. I will personally monitor whenevr a proposal on our version of Adesuwa is made as a film.What will be delightful is that all the cultural sites that are connected with the story are just there in Ubulu Uku.
These are not the only observation.The Urhobos which he claimed migrated during the reign of Oba Ogbeka has been dismissed by Urhobo born writers as a fabrication and of course this did not go without a fight with some Benins that wish to have the "old order" maintained.I have read a couple of such debates of course both sides have stories smeared with bits of lies just to prove a point.
Even if R.E Bradbury commended Egharevba I will just say he was just being diplomatic because there is little in his writing that suggests that he had followed the lead of Chief Egharevba.His was based on facts and not speculation.



3)On Dr Vincent Maduka, Now what is wrong with the title of "Dr" where did you learn that it is only academicians that go by that title. A
fterall your illiterate Esama goes by the title of Sir Chief Dr whatever even when he did not attend the four walls of a university. Even before "Apostle" Alile took over the mantle of that evangelical church he had took up the title of an Apostle. Its just personal choice and I am not a relative of Dr Maduka to verify why he goes by that appelation. In Akwa Ibom State , Dr Ime Umanah is not a phd holder.In fact I understand your case here. For "Apostle" Alile being an achiever than Dr Maduka well it depends on your own definition.I personally donot take the DG  of the NSE as a big deal because if I had done that I would have listed Mr Oscar Onyema CEO of the NSE ( who is as young as Apostle Alile's son) as one of my notables of Anioma stock. Since you have developed the chiddish habit of comparing misfits I think I will compare Chief Emmanuel Edozien to any Benin born technocrat.I will hope for another mismatch from you.
At one time you vainly tried to declare that Prof Onwuachi was a Dr, I ignored that because your opinion is unimportant.You should even pray that that you achieve a fraction of his achievements. Anioma people have really done well in the diplomatic sector. Take the present Permanent Rep to the United Nations Prof Mrs Joy Ogwu( you are free to declare that she is a Mrs) or Mr Ignatius Olisaemeka.These are proud natives of Aniomaland.

I am at liberty to classify Prof Elizabeth Isichei as a native of Anioma because in our custom in Igboland we place the origin of our wives to our origin(this is even a source of pride to the women and her community of origin). Prof Isichei had also done remarkably well as reflected on  her books on Igbos generally. The present Minister of Finance Dr Ngozi Iweala represents Abia state her state of marriage and you know what not even one person from that state has said that she is not qualified to represent them on account that the state of birth is Delta State.  
I think why you have issues with this is that it is cultural. Benin women really donot identify with their husbands. I saw it myself. A situation where women even in their husbands houses are acquiring properties all over the place and in many instances bear children for three , four or even five men
is just a reflection of the custom of the Benin people.This is why I think there is more attachment to place of birth.For this reason it is baseless to use Mrs Ighodaro married to an Edo man to Prof Isichei married to an Anioma man.

On Prof Maduemezia, This man is an achiever no matter how your idiotic opinion is. He is not in the same class with Prof Ekhaguere and you know it. Fine Let me say I was misinformed. The fact is that we all do. Afterall you shamelessly tried to claim Prof Binitie and Prof Igbafe as your list of "Benin notables" !  You even tried in vain perhaps to impress that Prof Binitie could not have been an Itsekiri.You have to swallow your pride on this one.

4) You know what is my response on the dating of the moats by Patrick Darling , Hmmmm I just remebered, trivial !  On the census of 1921 , hahahaha, you you are pained that in that census the Benins were even outnumbered by the Esan and Afenmai, Well there s noting we can do about it. There is no census that is thorough or everyone counted.Many people evn in this 2006 census were not counted , same for the 1991 census and this will be the case whenever they are ready to organise the next census. All enumeration conduction have that adjective "provisional" and it is not peculiar to the 1921 census. What I like with this census compared to ones we now conduct is the kind of elaboration which at present and of course for selfish reasons we are unable re-enact that act. I think the word "shameless" should be used in describing Physics, How can he make such a claim that the Benins are not interested in the "mere" 45,000 of Igbanke clan .Orhionmwon in the 2006 census had 182,000 residents .Now do the arithmetic and you get less than 140,000 and you say the Benins are uninterested. I think you have heve been bitten by a rabid dog to make such claims. What of the Ovia area where the Ijaws occupy no less than three wards, Ok you are tired on arguing over the Ijaw question because you have defeated Ijaws on the same matter .You could have achieved such a feat because those you were engaged with were not informed and more importantly are not even Ijaws from the area.The saving grace of the Benin over the Ijaw question is the presence of third parties like the Itsekiris , Ilajes and I think they have roped in the Ibibios on this one.
I think you are coming to your senses that the claim of the palace on Igbanke is irresponsible .At one time you claimed that in the NBF I made claims Igbanke that suggests that Igbanke belonged to the Benin.Since my rebuttal I have not heard anything from you since you are an expert in linking us with stories on the net.
On Ozarra, these are part and parcel of Agbor kingdom belonging to the IHU IZOMOR group and there is nothing you write here that can change. However if we decide ie the Benins and the Anioma people we make ethnic boundaries , like I said before it is the Benins that will be the losers because Igbanke is definitely not the only Ika town in the old Benin division. Ozarra is small  and really its of little political value to the Ika people talkless of the Anioma people in general. Ika South had over 162,000 in the 2006 census with the Ozarra having just 7,000 people .That will leave Ika South with a net population of about 155,000.I dont think that is too much to give out but the problem here is that Ozarra is on Agbor land and of course they are free just like some of them did a couple of generations ago to cross the Ossiomo river to Ozanisi.The choice is theirs.
I can tell anyone that the Ika people are not interested on the "mineral royalties" the question we should have asked is the kind of minerals Physics thinks that makes the Ika people so attached to Ozarra. Readers of this thread  the mineral in question is  kaolin(native chalk) and some grades of clay which also abounds in other IHU OZOMOR  settlements like Alisimie.
How much are those worth ? Who cares  perhaps the palace but the palace does not feed the Agbor people, Just get that point.
The Anioma people are not interested with Benin lands because we have more than enough but we are interested in defining our boundaries properly and not a situation where the Palace of the Oba would show much desparation to hold on communties he had no rights whatsoever . What could have explained the reason for the title he bestowned on a native of Igbanke ? We know that outcast very well who would sell his people for a pot of porridge.
Anioma will not by the first ethnic based state in Nigeria.It may not be the last.If you say you dont like the idea of ethnic based state then I wonder why you state was named "Edo state" because Edo is an ethnic definition. I think I quite agree with you that the people of Igbanke to an extent should be held for this predicament of theirs.But it is not the  attitude of the Anioma people to leave their kith and kin just like that.No way,

5) That I should not expect a lenghty response from you , Do I really care ? I know you love to spend the entire day posting your "authentic" opinion for us to read. That is what I expect but bear it in mind that I might even decide to stop any more posts here. There are indeed lots of similarities between you and Omojie and these people love having the last word. To them that is a sign of heroism.When I went to the other thread I just could not stop laughing as I saw the semi-literate Agbontean tackle the Physics of "authentic" knowledge in a battle of who should outwit the other.And you know what is  gratifying is to see people refering to what I have written earlier with such positive remarks and sources of reference . It means all the attempt to smear me has been in vain.

At one time I told you along with Exothief  that when the time comes the Igbanke people will tell the world where they belong. This is a democratic dispensation. Ideally a kind of referendum should be conducted in the community and we will know whether the Palace of the Oba had acted well that could have fostered a warmer relationship between the Anioma and the Benin.I also made it clear without any contradiction that Ekpon belongs to the Anioma .I am so sure because Ekpon and Igbodo are close neighbours.We know ourselves very well. Since you had been convinced by one Idemudia a native of Ekpon , there was no "correction" from the highly "celebral" Physics.
I was also the first person who noted that north of Ebu is the town of Inyele which is yet another Anioma town in Edo state.But because of pride , you went on to say you saw it from the Umuanioma website, Hahaha, The Umuanioma is yet another affiliate organisation to the Izu Anioma and I know  some of  promoters personally.It was even from the Izu Anioma that they heard of the name Inyele.Initially they were pre occupied with Igbanke and Ekpon.Personally I would like Ndoni to be restored to Anioma because tht is were it belongs and maybe Ogbaru but that is doubtful.Onitsha and Oguta are completely ruled out.These are strategic towns and if we as Igbo people mean well for ourselves these towns ought to remain where they are.This was also what I noted in the NBF.

@My kinsmen, now I mean the Igbos on this thread and not outsiders trying to pose as "Nwanne" The Ika people denying that they are not Igbos are in the minority and this is why they make so much noise because their position is not a very strong one. I will enjoin you all to just ignore these people.If they write just ignore them.Because whatever they write will not change anything on ground. We have them in our socio-political orgaanisation the Izu Anioma and they dont even bring up that matter.

You see wetin I talk.
Let the battle of long epistle begin.
Over to you, physics.

LMAO  

The return of the Ogbuefi of lies indeed! You didn't disappoint with your essay. You really piled it on there and I've already spotted several errors just glancing through that epistle you wrote.   Well, I have a test Friday morning, so expect a full response on Friday afternoon! However, when I do post my counter "essay" I'm going to do it in that Delta Igbo Bendel Igbo thread, because you had some other false claims there that I [b]still [/b]intend to correct. I was waiting for you to return, but since you're here now, it's all good. I'll respond in that thread and post the link in this thread just in case you miss it.

PhysicsQED:

LMAO  

The return of the Ogbuefi of lies indeed! You didn't disappoint with your essay. You really piled it on there and I've already spotted several errors just glancing through that epistle you wrote.   Well, I have a test Friday morning, so expect a full response on Friday afternoon! However, when I do post my counter "essay" I'm going to do it in that Delta Igbo Bendel Igbo thread, because you had some other false claims there that I [b]still [/b]intend to correct. I was waiting for you to return, but since you're here now, it's all good. I'll respond in that thread and post the link in this thread just in case you miss it.

Wetin you dey study and for where?
Hope you dont mind my funny questions.

Just wondering if a reply from Physics ever came through. How long does it take to have a 'friday' come by again? When is the next cycle so I can book my seat? There are loads of things I do not agree with in Ogb's assertion and I wouldav loved to read Physics response.

Not interested in posting anything on this thread ; Initially I had planned that when I travel home for the xmas holidays I will be able to use my cache of materials .However I am no longer interested on this thread.

Ogbuefi 1:

Not interested in posting anything on this thread ; Initially I had planned that when I travel home for the xmas holidays I will be able to use my cache of materials .However I am no longer interested on this thread.

I decided to just let this thread die since I was just arguing with a tribalist and someone with reading deficiencies. I have no idea why you resurrected it just to post this stuff about what you had "planned" with your "cache of materials" since it was obvious I had moved on. If did not respond the Friday that I said I would, and not even the next Friday after that, I wonder why you were even planning anything when I had left the thread to die out.

Anyway, you got a lot of stuff wrong - everything from assuming that kaolin (sometimes actually called "white gold" and used in a legion of products) was not worth much, to assuming that Attahiru (who[i] explicitly[/i] pleaded with the British that he not be bothered because he was "simply running away" after the first battle of Burmi (in which the people of Burmi defended him and their town from the British) - and this has already been proven (anyone can check p.181 of the 1964 edition of Concerning Brave Captains: Being a History of the British Occupation of Kano and Sokoto and of the Last Stand of the Fulani Forces by D.J.M. Muffett for proof )) died fighting as a martyr. This is a myth perpetuated by idiots. He actually died seeking protection in Burmi/Bormi while fleeing east after fleeing Sokoto (where he should have died if he were so interested in martyrdom), while the Oba of Benin only left after they fired rockets at the palace (it would serve no purpose to stick around for no reason when rockets are raining down) upon entering the city, and when he returned, he turned himself in for a trial where he was specifically meant to be hanged (there is indisputable evidence of this from the British soldiers themselves, and they even took a picture of where they meant to hang him), until he was found innocent of actually ordering any attack on any British (the British trespassers) at the trial. Really, if the Oba had ran to the Esan (who were invaded in the Ishan Expedition, which was later) begging for protection, then there might have been some similarity between him and caliph Attahiru, who ran almost as far as Borno (and his son, Mai Wurno, continued running and left to the Sudan) seeking protection in Burmi under Musa (the ruler of Burmi). The Oba had the guts to show up to trial and face whatever "punishment" the British decided upon, rather than to desperately seek protection elsewhere, yet the caliph you compared him with pleaded that he be allowed to keep traveling to the east and was the only Nigerian monarch to specifically plead with the British that he be allowed to continue to "run away".

Nearly everything you wrote in this discussion has been junk to me. Everything from you misunderstanding what I said about Ekpon and why I even  mentioned what Idemudia wrote, to the crap about the Ubulu Uku conflict and the nonsense about Adesuwa being the Oba's daughter (as if the Oba's daughters left the palace section of the city!) rather than the Ezomo's daughter (as if the Anioma know better than Benin whose daughter she actually was; anyway, even Isidore Okpewho, in his book (Once upon a Kingdom) blames the Ezomo for starting the conflict over Adesuwa, and that is because he, like some other Anioma, still don't seem to understand what his relationship was with her and why he was so indignant, even over 200 years later), to the stuff about Bradbury and Egharevba (you foolishly assumed that Bradbury's 1957 book was his main or only publication, ignoring the many other things he wrote that relied on Egharevba and his personal praise of Egharevba), to your idiotic comparisons of the fewer troops and fewer guns (and no rocket artillery) used against Ubulu Uku to those used against Benin,  to stupidly assuming that every historical figure in Benin tradition could be traced to one of the families (people living now can be traced to the families, not that every single historical figure in the past could be traced to one of the families),  to even thinking I claimed a murdered man (the alleged man named "Edo" who gives his life for someone else had living descendants (and assuming that the other individuals I named could not have had any living descendants, without even knowing much about who they were), to your ignorance about the enormous difference between the 1921 census and the other censuses, to the unfounded assumption that Bini artists would even depict old peoples' features (wrinkles and other signs of aging) in their art (they never did for aesthetic reasons; the 1997 article "Prestige and the Gentleman: Benin's Ideal Man" discusses this. Not even a single depiction of any Oba or Iyoba looks aged, nor does anyone else. . .), to claiming that I actually posted an image of a 18th century trophy head (I only posted a head with a caption that made reference to a different head kept in the British museum that was considered 18th century), to claiming that Oba Eresoyen's wealth was derived from Agbor (actually, the wealth was from trade with the Dutch and British during that time and there are written documents to very strongly back that up; anyone can check "Art, Politics, and Innovation in Eighteenth Century Benin" by Paula Ben-Amos or Benin and the Europeans by Alan Ryder for more specifics about the ivory trade during that time. There are real, independently written documents which confirm this tradition, not stories alone), and many other things.


And even the "cannibalism" claim is just another misinterpretation from you. Your "friend" came in there and explained how a group was "cursed" over something and I countered back that I didn't believe in that stuff but if any group was cursed, it was not exclusive to just one group. The belief that Europeans ate people was not just found among some of the Igbo but was widespread in some other parts of Nigeria. The Nupes for example, had the same belief, as evidenced by a written document describing a visit to the Nupe capital in the 1800s. Selling people while thinking that they're going to be eaten is pretty screwed up thinking, but it doesn't mean a whole ethnic group is cursed and I made no claim about any Nigerian group being cursed or being cannibals. This "point" of yours was just more evidence of a reading deficiency.

You were even so reading impaired that you thought I claimed that I learned about Inyelen from that umuanioma website. I said to him (Relax101) that I learned about it from an argument I was involved in earlier this year on this very forum (not from some other website, but from a discussion/debate on this forum), which the person asking had already read, and when I gave him the information, he still asked for a source, even though I had already told him exactly where I got the information from. When he asked for a source, I gave him a traceable, quotable source that he could use, since I don't consider anonymous internet postings by myself or anyone else to be a real source. Overall, when I saw that specific complaint from you, I realized I was arguing with a mindless robot who was just grasping for points to argue about, even when they don't make sense. You were even dumb enough to interpret me calling professors with the title "Dr" as though it were an insult of some sort from me, which shows complete and total ignorance not merely of conventions in academia but  also a lack of common sense about these things. At that point, it was just time to ignore you, not to mention the fabrications about names like Alilehan (which you attempted to interpret using a language they don't speak) and the fabrication about the Binis being unable to engage in bush warfare (the 1897 descriptions of fighting by the British explicitly refute this), the fabrication about reading about Naiwu Osahon's article about who could be given a title in a newspaper, and many other lies.

Then there was the Gelegele thing. How can anybody be so dumb that they assume that simply because a place is now heavily populated with one group, that that group always owned and occupied that land? The USA alone is a relatively easy counterexample. The truth is that the Ijaws have no historical claim to Gelegele and you were a fool to even suggest that they did. When Royal Navy soldiers under Captain O' Callaghan burnt down Gelegele on February 10th, 1897, these Ijaw people were nowhere to be seen. It was always known as a Bini place and indeed it was specifically identified as the first Bini village encountered in 1897 by the British who were very well aware of the difference between Ijaws and Binis and who even made a point to note that Ijaws in what is now Delta state that they had come across before they reached Benin territory were friendly to the invasion. So much for Gelegele being Ijaw. Prior to 1897 there was nothing like Gelegele as Ijawland, but migrants are now creating fictitious traditional rulers there.

It was also a bit annoying to see someone who can barely handle basic English make references to the role of physics in science. I don't know why you would sit there and try to tell me about the place and role of a science that you know next to nothing about. It's bizarre and annoying at the same time, like when you were trying to tell me how different scientists should be ranked or trying to tell me about what Maduemezia's achievements were when you don't even know what any of his research means and couldn't explain even one thing about it. I don't know why anybody would be dumb enough to rely on Nigerian newspapers for information about the standing or achievements of physicists anyway. I came across claims in a Nigerian newspaper about Dr. Ekhaguere (http://tribune.com.ng/sun/reminiscences/947-i-slept-a-lot-during-prep-cos-i-was-too-playful-gos-ekhaguere-professor-of-mathematicsmacarthur-grant-liaison-officer) calling him a genius, but I knew enough not to accept it as true (the standard for considering someone a genius in math or physics is quite high and that article, like other Nigerian newspapers, was not written by anybody who knows enough about physics or mathematics to accurately assess these sort of things). You know basically nothing about a whole science but made it a point to tell somebody who knows that science how accomplished a scientist in that field was or was not.  You went out of your way to try to rubbish and dismiss G.O. Aiwerioba's achievement in being the first president of the Nigerian Society of Engineers because he did not earn a Ph.D by 1958 when he was president of that society or anytime afterward, but then went on to brag about Mr. Maduka (who you incorrectly presented as a doctorate holder; probably out of ignorance, not deliberate deception) being president at one point of that very same society. There was no way I would engage in another extended comparison of achievers after your refusal to admit to that contradiction.

For every Awele Maduemezia, I could bring up an Emmanuel Emovon (who was president of the Nigerian Academy of Science before Maduemezia, and held more important posts, such as Minister of Science and Technology), and for every Professor Emmanuel Edozien, I could bring up a Professor Milton Iyoha, and for every figure in technology I had another name I could bring up (Kingsley Idehen, John Aisien, Ken Woghiren, etc.) and so on and so on, but you would label people who are much more accomplished than yourself "misfits" because they are of a particular ethnic group, so I decided that this was yet another reason to ignore you and move on. Why would I continue to humor you when people much smarter and more accomplished than you are just going to be labeled "misfits" for no reason?


But the physics thing was more annoying than all the previous stuff. I didn't sit there and tell you the role of biology or history or whatever it is you studied, anyway. I know very well that you couldn't even explain one significant concept from any branch of physics (without using some search engine) even if it were relatively basic like an eigenstate, coherent state, degeneracy, or a four-vector. Please, let's not pretend that you realized that physics is the foundation of the sciences because you actually know anything about physics or have a real understanding of its connections to the other sciences - that would seem ridiculous to both of us and neither of us could really believe it. You realized physics is the foundation of the sciences because that's what smarter people said, so you ran with it without having the curiosity to find out for yourself what all that is really about.


And really if you were "no longer interested in this thread", then why bother to resurrect it over a month later just to declare your non-interest and claim (to who?) what you had planned to do? I wrote my response, and then decided to forget about it and let you have the last word, because it wasn't worth my time to engage you further, but you still felt you had to announce what you had "planned" to do, utilizing your "cache" of materials, on the thread even after I had deliberately let you come out looking like all of the crap you spewed could actually stand up to scrutiny.  .



@ Relax101, I'm not going to say where I study simply because there are too many shady characters on this forum that might try to look me up in a directory or track down and find other information about me and then start using my information for God knows what . We've already seen a few 419 characters exposed on this forum, so I have no doubt that others are lurking and reading the forum. I'm a physics major and I'm interested in AMO (atomic, molecular, and optical) physics for grad school, though I also have some other areas I'm looking at.

@ Wesley, many Fridays passed by, and I even posted on other threads in between that Oct. 20th post of mine and today as you can see from my post history in my profile and my posts in the Culture section. Sorry if you wanted to see a real response, but I was ignoring this thread and had moved on. Ogbuefi said he was not going to post beyond this year, so I assumed that with no response from me by the end of this year, he would just ignore the thread, move on, feel like the "victor" (he finds it very "gratifying" when people give "positive remarks" on what he writes on anonymous internet forums, after all) and this stuff would die out, but he had to come back with one more comment about his disinterest and what he had "planned" with his "cache of materials", which I found annoying and silly. If he was no longer posting, he should have just said that and left, without all that unnecessary self promotion and claims about what he had planned. My full response was detailed, but there's no point in posting it now because it would drag out a discussion that both me and Ogbuefi now find boring. Much of what he wrote is crap to me, but picking it apart piece by piece is too boring to bother with. I could refute much of what he posts in detail, but it would just drag things out longer. Should I really be debating invented claims about a woman being murdered for alleged "witchcraft" and other similar stuff? I don't think so.


I remember that you mentioned that you are from Aboh in a thread in the culture section, but I don't know much about Aboh tradition and don't claim to, so if you were hoping that I would counter anything that Ogbuefi said with regard to Aboh, I'm sorry to disappoint you there. If he says that this is what Aboh tradition holds, I have no reason to believe that he's not telling the truth as it was told to him. I question his numerous other inventions and fabrications, but I have no reason to believe that on this particular issue he is saying anything other than what he learned from Aboh people about their tradition.

If one of the things you were wondering about was the statement about Eze chime and Egharevba in Ogbuefi's response, the truth is that the figure known as Eze chime, while he clearly existed, does not seem to have been known to the Edo speakers, or perhaps was not notable enough to the Binis in comparison to the more well known figures of that era (to them) such as Arhuarhan, Esigie, and queen Idia. As a result, he is entirely unknown to Edo traditions and even the place that Ogbuefi claimed he was from (Udo) had no knowledge or mention of him when they were asked about the events of that era by Patrick Darling. The ironic thing here is that the scholar that he mentioned (Patrick Darling) carried out extensive archaeological work on Udo (and other areas) and recorded its traditions about that specific Esigie-Idia era (in a 1984 book on the earthworks in Edo and Esan areas, he notes the traditions he recorded at specific places in the back of the book and in other parts of the book), some of which mention Arhuarhan and Esigie, but no figure matching the name or historical profile of Eze chime or Ikhime was noted. This is especially surprising because their tradition actually differs somewhat in a significant aspect with the "official" or "standard" Edo history authored by Egharevba about Benin, so they are not just agreeing with Benin tradition or with what Egharevba wrote - they actually disagree with it on a crucial matter, such as whether or not Benin once payed Udo tribute before Benin eventually triumphed over them. Egharevba was definitely not infallible, but he also definitely did not have some sort of grand scheme designed to "protect the image of the monarchy" as alleged above, and no objective person can read his descriptions of Obas Ezoti, Ewuare, Ewuakpe, Ohen, etc. in his book and think he wrote that book with the intention of protecting the image of the monarchy. If he had such an agenda, the book would have to have been completely different. Both Benin and Udo tradition, which don't actually agree exactly, have no recollection of any Ikhime/Eze chime/chima figure, but we know that he existed from extensive mention of him in Anioma tradition and he was even mentioned in colonial intelligence reports.

With regard to Egharevba, no Edo historian, when writing a history of Benin, was under any obligation to go to Anioma for information, just as no Anioma historian when writing a history of any Anioma place, was under any obligation to go Benin for information, even though references were sometimes made by some historians to the other group (Anioma areas or Benin areas) in their works, so I have difficulty faulting Egharevba for not knowing about a figure that nobody in Benin or any other Edo speaking area knew about. It might have been better for both groups if efforts had been made to collate the traditions from both sides that reference each other, but that would have been a difficult and extremely time consuming thing to do.

Since Aboh tradition links them to Eze Chime's group, then I am not going to dispute their tradition in any way. Perhaps you have a different perspective on Aboh's link to Benin, though.

Wow. Epistles upon epistles. Some mothers sure do have 'em.
Anyway, I shall read the comments on this thread like I read my software's End-User License Agreements - by never reading them

At long last that special friday has come but not after I have declared that I am no longer interested in posting anything in this thread. Now, I am not going back on my words and I mean it this is inspite of those provocative remarks of Physics . I am not a regular contributor on such fora like this and I dont expect to continue posting especially when it involves insults( counter insults) like is the case now. Indeed I have materials at home and this was the reason for even resurrecting this matter just to make a few points clearer and hopefully with less insults ie towards the end of the year. But I am someone who keeps to his word ; when I noted I was not interested in posting on the other thread I meant it and I will not do that even if Physics decides to post whatever there . My responses would have been here but I changed my mind . I will not engage myself in debates with a "student" who just wrote his test some few weeks ago. For people with issues of complex to which the likes of Physics and Omojie fits perfectly into , fora like this is an opportunity to "shine" for Physics reading a few books and articles in the internet is just the perfect justification to take charge of such fora, I understand the mentalities of people like that and indeed it is perfect to give them the reason for being "internet heroes"

Tribalist, ?? Everyone has a bit of clannish tendencies especially in Africa and this is not peculiar to Ogbuefi. Before Physics came up with his claims of Ogbuefi being a "tribalist" he has been called that by other contributors on nairaland. I dont even need to respond to such accusations. Anyone can see through his postings, I only know about Benin , I am not aversed to other peoples and to complete it for him I dont care or even bother to know about groups . What is a better definition for a chronic tribalist for peoples with such mentality ? And why his case is so pathetic is that he is a young chap and with the engagement I have had with him he seems to be bright, Very unfortunate.

When I see anyone lying I know because I have trained to read people beneath what they write or say; In fact this is why he keeps denying , he knows exactly what me meant, so just keep those explanations and move to other issues, This was why I quickly countered that "crap " by noting that cannibalism have never being practised in Aniomaland , he even went as far to claim that the Urhobos have Igbo origins just to make a point to justify the killings of civilians in Benin and other places, A statement like that suggest that his is wicked and when this is meshed with chronic tribalistic tendendies it becomes only God knows. Continue denying boy because those denials cannot convince Ogbuefi and many others who understand people like you.

Ogbuefi cant write good English , ?? Vainly Physics just concentrate on your studies and pray so that you can get something out of your life because you are just a beginner. My writing style is not the point far from it. Most of us are anonymous here and I dont own anyone explanations for that just like the Physics does not own me any explanations. When I write time is what I consider the most and I write to conserve time and not to impress anyone definitely not for the little brat Physics, We all know how Sultan Attahiru died , Yes he may have asked to flee but he died within his domain (and more importanly in war) and was buried there ( Bormi is within Gombe emirate which is is a part of Sokoto Sultanate), Please tell us where the great hero Oba Ovonramwen was buried , we all know he was "unaware" of the ambush that left Capt Philips dead however he was the chief architect of the horror of human sacrifice which according to the monarch and his subject would have waded an imminent attack on the kingdom, Hundreds of people were killed and the king would have been convicted for that and exiled because that was wht the British wanted. A true hero especially a leader is someone who dies in the course of fighting for what he believes and not the shameful manner an Oba fled into the bush, tried, convicted, exiled , died and buried in a strange land.

Like I said I am not interested in this thread , I dont just have that time and more importantly I dont care with what people think about my position, Afterall I learnt from somewhere that the Benin forces "crushed" Ubulu Uku yet the Ubulu community is amongst the largest in Delta State with vast colonies in Imo and Anambra State or that for aesthetic reasons the supposed trophy head of Obi Olisa became "young" I did not see something like that with the heads which are supposed to represent the heads of the captured Igala soldiers in the catalogue of such "trophy heads " he presented to us . For some of us half truths are just too sweet , Prof Okpweho who is a recipient of the pretigious National Merit award this year did not end with Adesuwa being the Ezomo's daughter he noted without contradiction that the invading forces were disgraced when they attempted to bring Ubulu kingdom down a reason the great prestige of Benin went flat within the various Anioma chiefdoms throught the 19th century, At tht point it becomes apparent who is lying here,

This is the last I will write here and I will keep this promise.

Clap for yourself. You've managed to end with more lies and also with more distortions of what I posted, even in your final remark. It's really not worth responding in detail anymore. Goodbye and have a nice life. 

A round of Applause !!!!!! @Vainly and mischievous Physics, Thank you for not responding, lol, It is not worth it.

Ogbuefi 1:

This is the last I will write here and I will keep this promise.

Ogbuefi 1:

A round of  Applause !!!!!!    @Vainly and mischievous Physics, Thank you for not responding, lol,  It is not worth it.

Na wa o. . .

Laugh don kill me , oh, I thought as much, Simply because I declared that I not post , it becomes yet another opportunity for the brat Physics to post ; as usual I think to have " the last word"

@Vainly and Mischievous Physics , Just like I noted earlier , I understand the psychology you are operating from, Initially I thought you were an older man , I am convinced without any doubt that you are just a boy. Like I adviced earlier just concentrate on your studies and make something out of your life because the path you are following will lead nowhere, My " trap " has caught you once more , God I cant believe it , just within a day , ??!!!!!, Ok boy you have passed the test, you are free to make the last word becase I am not interested in this thread, Wait just a closing remark, Your father is a honourable man, a palace chief you claimed saved many Anioma lives during the "1967 Benin massacre" I hope he is yet alive and coupled with such "brillance" exhibited by you including foolishly falling into this small trap, Make him understand the futility of the Oba's claim on Igbanke , The Benin traditional administrative according to Egharevba is "democratic", Let him and chiefs of such respectable conviction plead with the Oba to hands off Igbanke because an Oba of Benin people cannot be an Oba of Ika people.The Ika people have their respective Obis, Ndiches, Omus, Okiwenes, Ogbuebunues, Olinzeles, Olotus, Okparas, Ogenes etc in charge of their affairs including the people of Igbanke.

And lest I forget endeavour to ask your father the true pedigree of Chief Sam Igbe and confirm if indeed he is an "Urhobo man" instead of playing around with Igho Natufe assumptions that he is one, Good bye for now or can I say happy new year in advance, I dey laugh oooohhhhhh,

I said that my late grandfather saved one man. I did not mention my father earlier.

Also, that post of mine immediately above was a lighthearted observation and not a real jab or insult.  It is a little amusing though how fired up you got over one cheeky observation. I thought you would detect the "mischievous" humor in the post, since everyone, including you, should be able to appreciate simple irony.

Something I came across a year ago (the site is no longer up), where the  interviewer, Isesele Ezekiel,  was told directly about the relationship between Usen and Benin:

"The Olu-Awure has a very cordial relationship with the Benin monarch, even till tomorrow we are still saying that Usen and Benin are one." - HRH Oluogbe II, the Olu-Awure of Usen, April 2010


So how about this: I'll consider spending a little of my time asking around about Chief Igbe's background when you decide to use up any of your time finding out from someone directly associated with the royal house of Usen whether what you claimed (about Ondo, Usen, and the Elawure) is actually true or whether or not you're distorting what another man said and putting words into his mouth.

However, I think we both have much better uses of our time and that you probably shouldn't bother since I already have the answer. 


As for Isidore Okpewho and his claims, Peter Ekeh (an Urhobo man, who also criticized Egharevba) dealt with his claims and criticized his glaring bias in his 2000 article "Contesting the History of Benin Kingdom" (Research in African Literatures, Volume 31, Issue 3, 2000.)

The article is reproduced here on an Edo website: http://ihuanedo.ning.com/profiles/blogs/contesting-the-history-of-benin-kingdom

Once again, have a nice life. 

Ishan is the real and correct name of the area and the people of that ethic group of Edo State and Not Esan incorrect.

Ishan4real:

Ishan is the real and correct name of the area and the people of that ethic group of Edo State and Not Esan incorrect.

Why do you say that? I've read the exact opposite (that "Ishan" is an anglicized or corrupt version of the original name "Esan" everywhere else.

@PhysicsQED, do you think its best that the Igbanke and Oza nogogo work with each other in such a way that the Oza Nogogo people will be ceded to Edo state and the Igbanke to Delta(basically swap place)?


Although, because of recent interactions with these people(the igbankes) i dont really want them in Anioma State, but that is besides the point.

Chyz*:

@PhysicsQED, do you think its best that the Igbanke and Oza nogogo work with each other in such a way that the Oza Nogogo people will be ceded to Edo state and the Igbanke to Delta(basically swap place)?


Although, because of recent interactions with these people(the igbankes) i dont really want them in Anioma State, but that is besides the point.

Why do you not want them to be with their kits and kins in Igbo areas or states?.

Andre Uweh:

Why do you not want them to be with their kits and kins in Igbo areas or states?.

These people don't want to associate with Igbo at all. Some of them, upon all the mistreatment by the Edo gov, want to continue staying in Edo state. They the want to stay are asking that they get their own separate LGA. They now want to drop their Igbanke identity completely and take up the name ika. They have identity crisis. Can you believe that they had a conference abt a week and a half ago in lagos and was asking their people whether they should take up the identity of Bini or Ika?!!! What a shame. I don't know whether to feel sorry for them or laugh at them. Wow! it translates that they would rather be called somehting that they are obviously not(bini) than to fully claim Igbo. If we allow them into Anioma and they take the ika name, they will cause disuntiy among the ika and Anioma as a whole. Majority of Ika already claim Igbo but the Igbanke will spoil all of that. Its better they stay out of Anioma.

Chyz*:

These people don't want to associate with Igbo at all. Some of them, upon all the mistreatment by the Edo gov, want to continue staying in Edo state. They the want to stay are asking that they get their own separate LGA. They now want to drop their Igbanke identity completely and take up the name ika. They have identity crisis. Can you believe that they had a conference abt a week and a half ago in lagos and was asking their people whether they should take up the identity of Bini or Ika?!!! What a shame. I don't know whether to feel sorry for them or laugh at them. Wow! it translates that they would rather be called somehting that they are obviously not(bini) than to fully claim Igbo. If we allow them into Anioma and they take the ika name, they will cause disuntiy among the ika and Anioma as a whole. Majority of Ika already claim Igbo but the Igbanke will spoil all of that. Its better they stay out of Anioma.

I also followed the events at that conference in Lagos. Most of them who spoke reiterated the need to join Anioma. I have copies of the speeches delivered.

Andre Uweh:

I also followed the events at that conference in Lagos. Most of them who spoke reiterated the need to join Anioma. I have copies of the speeches delivered.

I laugh at them. Let them stay in Edo state. They are not included in the Anioma State proposal anyway.

Chyz*:

I laugh at them. Let them stay in Edo state. They are not included in the Anioma State proposal anyway.

Supported. I hate forcing or goading people into my own ethnicity. Every Igbo should be VERY PROUD AND TOTAL Igbo.
All these half and halfs are starting to get boring, and tend to work against GENERAL Igbo cohesion.

Onye obuna zaa afa nna ya. No be by force. 

Chyz*:

@PhysicsQED, do you think its best that the Igbanke and Oza nogogo work with each other in such a way that the Oza Nogogo people will be ceded to Edo state and the Igbanke to Delta(basically swap place)?

I honestly don't think any groups are going to go to other states except that some miracle happens and every faction from every group reaches a consensus. All of the complaints I have read from the two groups (Igbanke and Oza nogogo) are very impassioned and serious, but I still do not think it is likely to happen any time soon. Even if they were to switch places, other groups would also want to be transferred to other states in addition to these groups, and then more and more groups until you have states that are ethnically homogenous. I don't think this issue is a priority for any state's government right now. Maybe when (or if) Nigeria is more developed these groups might get their wish granted.

^^^ Yep, its not a priority right now. Scrapping some states is even the better route

I can't help but laugh at the idea of igbanke people choosing which ethnicity to belong to. Is an ethnic group now a club or something?

1. igbanke people deserve and reserve the right to decided which ethnicity they want to belong to , but i do know from my opinion that they are ika people ,and also i know that ika has close relationship with benin people , i did not say ika people are bini people , and also we have relationship or links too with igbo .having said this our elders have taken a postion that they are ika .
2. edo state is made up of many ethnic groups but all of them have one or two relationship with ancient benin empire ,and so igbanke is not the only people different from the core majority in the state.all i think in my opinion they are agitating for is a fair share of the development in the state, after the regime of ogbemudia ,they igbankes have been left out of development in the state.,but there are also many areas of edo state that are not developed ,but i pray that the adams oshiomole as a minority from edo , will remember to develop igbanke.
3. even if igbanke wants a new local govt .or want to join anioma state ,if it is created ,it is only the federal govt.that can ceed them to this new state.,ijaw people are in edo ,delta and other state too ,so our people in igbanke should fight for their right to be developed.
4. as for ogbuefi that reminded me of the igbodo man that is representing ika in house of representative in abuja , i want to remind him that it was the same owa politicians that assisted him to that position,and even doris uboh complained about it openly in ika land.however i want to remind you that owa kingdom is the headquarters for ika north east local govt in which igbodo and other kingdoms are located and that owa is not deficient of great movers and shakers in delta /nigerian politics right from olden times till now, the highest political office holder from delta north is from owa in person of chief author okowa, also ambassador godson echegile egwabor , comissioner of commerce and industry in delta is kingsley emu from owa .we have even extended our progress into many professions like prince nduka obaigbena owner of thisday news paper, nduka irabor -famous journalist/ fed.law maker, primate nicholas okoh -head of anglicans in nigeria, major general ugo -buzugbe the secretary of the nigerian army, emeke iwerebor -one of the head of UBA bank,provost of college of education agbor- okobia, and a host of others .
5. i want to say that since i was born till my father died last year ,and through all my discurssions with my uncles in owa ,they all told me i am ika , so i remain ika. as for ika and benin it is impossible to cut ika away from benin in terms of relationship as many of the concept used in ika daily living was taken from benin, and our most cherished tradition of obiship was taken from there , also igbo has also influenced ika tradition too,but this have a more recent time lag.
6. i also want to say that ika communities in edo are many and some are not igbanke people like owa iru,owanikeke, ute oheze, igbogiri and others and these people are very numerous.
7.igbanke people should unite and work for their communities , because i also see many of them who are rich ,but they clearly avoid going home or building in igbanke ,.
i know they will over come their problems ,but i just want to say that even in the anioma or delta north area , there are still inherent politics as the four groups that came together to form that unit still have in fighting and there is often no unity of purpose as some groups in the union are working to group others under a known ethnic group while others are ressiting it.

@agbotaen

do u realy have a job?
or are u just looking for anioma/igbo discussion every where to reply.
pls get a life.