Rebelutionary:

Neither you nor GanagiBitrus is wrong following your back and forth! He is speaking from the obtainable realistic point of view while you are speaking from the idealistic view which you and I know isn't the obtainable.

Examples will suffice: one IG after another has made these boast whenever they assume office
A. Recalling all police personnel from VIPs and you know its just blowing hot air
B. Dismantling "illegal checkpoints" all over the country. How far with that?
C. The police have no right to check your phone. Lol yimu

You cant blame Nigerians who don't buy that statement when there are a litany of statements that don't involve life that don't pass a day or two of enforcement and then we are back to status quo

The Police needs to liase with the Nigerian Medical Association body to workout a working framework in such situations. This doctors are learned people who by their sworn oath are bound to save lives and if they do not in such situations, the questions should be why are they not. There should be an open conversation on grey areas of uderstanding between both bodies.

It is not about making statements because we have an unfortunate incident on our hands and then make more when another occurs or transferring litigation responsibility (like you are advocating) to ordinary Nigerians who won't take that route for obvious reasons!

Suing is medicine after death!!

The only sane and cerebral person in Nairaland

YoungBlackRico:
People like you with this kind of reasoning and mentality is the reason this country will never witness any growth. In saner climes, first aid/treatment is given first. In USA, even if na police shoot you themselves and the intention was not to kill, if you're lucky not to die, the first line of action is how to safe your life.

The US have a police department that works. Ours is interested in harassing citizens

Shouldn't the Health Ministry / President be the one making this order ?

It is just a media statement that would ultimately carry no authority.

Federal govt or relevant ministries are the only ones that can order health workers to follow a particular policy.

JagabanB:

So u work in a hospital that don't have any other staff apart from u the doctor on night duty?
U work in a hospital that can't reach out to the police station?
The big is, how did the police find out that you treated a patient that was stabbed by 7am?
The law is written that you should notify the police within 2 hours of treating a gunshot wound or stabbed patient, did u notify them?
There's a popular teaching by Confucius, it says "let the ruler rule as he should, let the minister be a minister as he should, let the father be a father as he should, let the son be a son as he should, only then will the social order be sustained".
The police force is fiIIed illiterates who thinks flexing muscles makes them important, I am not disputing that, the big question here is, did u behave the way u are supposed to behave?
If u contacted them within two hours, would they have the right to come and tell u anything?
If u had followed the time they came, would they have come back with armed police men?

Patient was brought in by 11pm. Passed on circa 12am. That is a small hospital, the name is Anume Hospital, Eleme. Year circa 2008. The only staff on duty then was myself and 2 nurses, and a cleaner. All of us were busy with this patient. Plus the hospital was chock full with cases. Also police hotline numbers are useless. You and I know that. So what did you expect me to do? Mind you I wanted to report the case as I'm leaving duty by 8am when another doc is already around

JagabanB:

You are looking at this from another perspective, are you also aware that u can reject a patient that's simply a victim of armed robbery and he can die?
I read a news where a young man was shot in the early hours of Thursday and University of Ibadan teaching hospital rejected him, on going round Ibadan that night, he died, that Saturday was supposed to be his wedding.
The law says a hospital should report stabbing and gun shot wound to the police within 2 hours of treatment.
I am also aware that criminals can invade a hospital especially if it was cult clash to disrupt the hospital, but does this mean innocent people should continue to die?

This case of cultists invading and threatening medical personnel is common. They bring in a dying or dead colleague and tell the doc their colleague must not die no matter what. Happens in UPTH Port Harcourt regularly.

JagabanB:

Suing is medicine after death that will prevent another death.
This law has been passed by the Senate.
Medical doctors watched it on TV, they saw it, they know it, they are aware of it.
If they are learned, why waiting to be begged before enforcing it?
We look at it from this perspective, the immigration comptroller said passport is not more 20k or something of that nature I can't really remember the exact figure and he even went ahead to emphasize that any Nigerian who experiences otherwise should report, what did Nigerians say?
They don't have time for that, a society grows only when laws that are passed are followed by citizens.
Last year around October, I took a young man to the man hospital, thieves raided his apartment and stabbed him, the hospital didn't reject us, they treated him and we duly informed the police which came, asked us a few questions, checked out his house and documented it, they even investigated to check the thieves (although nothing came out of that investigation).
Medical personnels in Nigeria are highly irresponsible, that's a fact that we are not putting into consideration.
I was in the hospital last week, people were sitting to see doctors in consultation rooms, the doctors were just moving around pressing their phones, people were sitting and waiting and their files were held by nurse simply because according to the nurse, the numbers are not yet enough to split them to meet doctors.
U must have seen incidents where doctors turned down treating accident victims because they don't have a hospital card, in the case of a student because they don't have school ID on them and they will only start treatment when card is gotten or ID is brought.
U must have seen these scenario alot.
The law covers the medical personnel, there's no excuse for not treating patient, Nigerians don't leverage on what the law offers them.
That's why so many of these nonsense keeps happening.

You are further exposing your ignorance of hospital dynamics.
1. Imagine a hospital treating patients without ID. In a school environment. Are you aware there is a standing order not to treat patients without IDs because outsiders masquerade as patients just to get free treatment? So take your issue to the school senate who made such laws. Doctors dont make laws we only obey them. When the consequences of disobeying them comes, you'll be nowhere to be.
2. My hospital render help to patients without cards but there are many hospitals that don't do that. Why? Many if such patients receive the care ad refuse to pay once well. I can't count the number of stab wounds that leave the hospital and refuse payments after getting better. In the end, the hospital has to surcharge the poor front desk Officer who brought their cards to the doctor. If you own the hospital what would you do? Its okay running your mouth from outside

YoungBlackRico:
People like you with this kind of reasoning and mentality is the reason this country will never witness any growth. In saner climes, first aid/treatment is given first. In USA, even if na police shoot you themselves and the intention was not to kill, if you're lucky not to die, the first line of action is how to safe your life.

The fundamental problem of police in Nigeria is that nobody trusts them. Nobody wants "police wahala".
Bail is free, Police should not take bribe or search phones... are all paper statements.
Nigeria Police has plenty of work to do in building trust in Nigerians that indeed "Police is Your Friend".
That's the starting point.

na the police go direct or the health ministry?

GanagiBitrus:
This sounds good on paper, but imagine a scenario where a hospital attends to an armed robber.
The police investigations and interrogations that will take place in that hospital may likely disrupt business for them.

This is the major concern of hospitals that police have to address. Unless police can compensate such hospitals for any loss of business.

***
Imagine a hospital attending to an armed robber or victim of assassination attempt & then informing the police.

The other gang members or assassins may come to the hospital to rescue of finish him up.
Even if police starts guarding the place, that's not good for business.
Will you as a patient visit or remain in such hospital.

that is why I.G wrote to his men because normalcy will still return after the whole scenery. It's just it's a very beautiful thing the I.G for gun shot victims because many have died ordinarily where they would have survived so stop been pessimistic , Nigeria must be great and so we should applaud any good development or project. No

Oga make a national press conference and invite health minister join , people will be more convinced then this newspapers talk

jaephoenix:

Its funny how an outsider that has zero knowledge of how hospital dynamics work insist he knows everything. I was threatened with arrest because I was late in reporting a stab case(not even gunshot). The police wanted me to leave the hospital by 12am in the night, and hunt down the nearest police station to report the case. Whether I'm the only doc around or there are unconscious cases on ventilators, is all irrelevant, or possible emergencies coming at that point as outpatient, are all irrelevant. Imagine if you are the hospital owner or a patient that came in an emergency, do you know the chaos this has caused?

Very funny my brother! He talks as if he isnt in this couuntry!

jaephoenix:

You are further exposing your ignorance of hospital dynamics.
1. Imagine a hospital treating patients without ID. In a school environment. Are you aware there is a standing order not to treat patients without IDs because outsiders masquerade as patients just to get free treatment? So take your issue to the school senate who made such laws. Doctors dont make laws we only obey them. When the consequences of disobeying them comes, you'll be nowhere to be.
2. My hospital render help to patients without cards but there are many hospitals that don't do that. Why? Many if such patients receive the care ad refuse to pay once well. I can't count the number of stab wounds that leave the hospital and refuse payments after getting better. In the end, the hospital has to surcharge the poor front desk Officer who brought their cards to the doctor. If you own the hospital what would you do? Its okay running your mouth from outside

We have finally come to an agreement and the agreement is that u folks are busy using the police to cover for ur negligence, ur explanation above has clearly shown that ur interests are the reason why u turn away patients from hospital and the convenient to do is blame the police.
Of course I am ignorant, I can't say I am well versed with hospital laws, if u are so competent and ready to serve like u folks always claim and blame the police, u will not reject a patient that's bleeding to death simply because he doesn't have a school ID, but u all prefer the patient to bleed to death because u are more interested in the finances and u all come back to blame the police.
The law I know 100% is this, the police can't harass u simply because u treated a patient with gunshot wound or stab, it can't happen unless u refused to notify them.
U folks are simply being irresponsible because u haven't met someone who knows himself so much to slam u with a law suit.

jaephoenix:

This case of cultists invading and threatening medical personnel is common. They bring in a dying or dead colleague and tell the doc their colleague must not die no matter what. Happens in UPTH Port Harcourt regularly.

Yes!!!
But that's actually off this topic right now.

jaephoenix:

Patient was brought in by 11pm. Passed on circa 12am. That is a small hospital, the name is Anume Hospital, Eleme. Year circa 2008. The only staff on duty then was myself and 2 nurses, and a cleaner. All of us were busy with this patient. Plus the hospital was chock full with cases. Also police hotline numbers are useless. You and I know that. So what did you expect me to do? Mind you I wanted to report the case as I'm leaving duty by 8am when another doc is already around

No matter how small a hospital is, with this law in place, it is the responsibility of every hospital to have the functioning contacts of police within their vicinity.
If everybody does everything right, the social order will be maintained, in this case, ur hospital is the one who didn't do it right not the police, on every front u didn't do it right, they came for u to go with them to the station, u refused, this is u not doing it right.
I know when to blame the police and I know when I don't have to blame them.

Urheadmaster:
There should be a press conference concerning this issue

you mean in Nigeria

Rebelutionary:

We can go on and on with this and you can choose to solely place the blame on citizens who in your estimation aren't applying the law to their circumstance which I don't completely agree with! That is choosing to see only one perspective in my humble opinion!

It is in this same couuntry that "bail is free" but you still pay for what is free! How many you wan sue biko? Should the police even make statements about not harrasing citizens? Isn't this a no-brainer? But does this still occur frequently?

The issue of medical personnel doing this or that is irrelevant in this case as you find this malaise manifest in every sphere of our polity! Your experience is an exception within the plethora of cases that have gone unheard of outside this unfortunate case!

Nigerians dont leverage the law because of obvious reasons and in such a case this conversation should be sorted by relevant bodies (Police and NMA) not dragging innocent citizens into it. An honest conversation on why hospitals even government hospitals will ask for police report in a case of a gunshot wound should be the focus and ironing out knotty issues should be expedient!

A person who goes to the hospital in an emergency doesn't go there to "follow up laws" that naturally should work if people who are saddled with responsibilities do what they are suppose to do. Is that what is obtainable in climes that work where the need to resort to self help in taking on legal action is usually an exception and not a rule?

The minister of interior made a statement about clearing backlogs of passports and we saw how he followed up vigoroulsy to see it to fruition if not his statement would have been just like any other. And you will be surprised if there isnt an intentional concretization of this move we will be back to status quo just like other "initial gragra" policies. Statements are statements unless enforced by bodies concerned and not passing the whole bulk to citizens who don't know any better.

"Bail is free" which is true, except maybe when court grant u bail on certain terms.
Now let me tell u a story, a young man was coming out from his shop, he was closing up by 8pm, he owns a big grocery store (super market), the police parked their van, waited for him to lock up and arrested him.
He was begging them in the vehicle, according to him, he saw a man, one of the staffs working in a particular office (I don't want to specify) in the van also, he was begging them in the vehicle, they parked their vehicle close to their station and one of them came to him pretending to do him a favor and asked him how much he has, that night he was with 15k in his pockets because he already paid his money to the POS earlier in the evening, he begged them with the 15k and the officer told him, the moment u drop from ur vehicle, start running and don't look back.
He jumped down from d Hilux and ran, this is a man in his thirties telling me this story.
Now, why will u do that?
What if they shot u in the process of running?
Why will u give them 15k?
He has a CCTV in front of his shop that clearly captured the whole incident so why was he scared?
Problems like this, can't be solved by IGP or commissioner of police, ENDSARS harrasment stopped because the citizens had enough.
I was watching on TV yesterday when a senior police officer in Ghana was addressing same issues about what their lower ranked officers do and they need cooperation from the masses to help end those stuffs.
For this particular issue, the police has done what they can do, the only thing they can enforce is when a police officer harass a hospital or doctor for treating a patient shot or stabbed without medical report then the hospital and doctor will bring out and the police officer will be duly dealth with, if a doctor or hospital rejects such a patient because of lack of medical report, then the family of the victim should do the needful by slamming that hospital or doctor with a law suit.
That's what I am saying, police can't mount the hospital to enforce this.
Even having this conversation is part of addressing that issue, having this discussion on a bigger platform like TV is another way of enlightening the public and this menace will stop, IGP talking about it, is another way.
People should be made aware of their legal rights.
Many people in Nigeria live in ignorance and cry that there's no law and order.
We are so used to lawlessness that to enforce law and order is abnormal to us.

lexylaw40:


https://dailypost.ng/2023/10/27/treat-all-gunshot-victims-without-police-report-igp-orders-health-workers/

worthless useless country.

Is it the place of s policeman to issue directives or instruction to the nation's healthcare institutes.

Is there any law in Nigeria than mandates hospitals to get police report before treating victims of gunshot injuries? Nope.

But Nigeria police, worst of its kind will always blackmail and drop phantop allegations on anyone to make quick cash.

That was how the culture grew I'm Nigeria where many people with gunshot injuries were left to die due to lack of police report.

jaephoenix:

Its funny how an outsider that has zero knowledge of how hospital dynamics work insist he knows everything. I was threatened with arrest because I was late in reporting a stab case(not even gunshot). The police wanted me to leave the hospital by 12am in the night, and hunt down the nearest police station to report the case. Whether I'm the only doc around or there are unconscious cases on ventilators, is all irrelevant, or possible emergencies coming at that point as outpatient, are all irrelevant. Imagine if you are the hospital owner or a patient that came in an emergency, do you know the chaos this has caused?

I am an outsider in the medical, but I am an insider as long as this issue is concerned.
The law didn't make provisions for the excuses u are giving and these excuses don't show professionalism on ur part and the part of ur hospital.
Why don't u have contact of police in ur neighborhood?
U delayed the report, what u are saying now is what u should have gone with them to explain initially instead of turning them down.
They don't know these things u are saying until you tell them, same way I don't know it and u are telling me now.
Explain yourself first before going on the offensive, that's how a society should work.
I have had so many fracas with police and military alike.
Even at check points, I do what's necessary, I don't overstep my boundaries and u don't overstep yours and we are good to go.
The law says 2 hours within treatment, u didn't report with that 2 hours what prevented u from going with them when they came initially?
Let's all do what we are supposed to do, that's only when the social order will be maintained, it's not about hospital dynamics, this is about the law.

Cmanforall:


Forget it. You will not win anything, especially from private hospitals.

Do you know their specialty?
You think because it is 'a hospital', then any case will be treated there? Do you know about their facilities?

I say again, go to government hospitals, especially if you are thinking of heading to court later, not privately, because you will lose.
What the private hospitals may do if they don't want to treat the gunshot patient is to refer to a government hospital (they give you a letter, and that is it). Then you have wasted your time there and if unfortunately something bad happens and you head to court, just tell me how you will win

You were referred is different from "we can't treat the patient because you don't have police report".
With this line, that private hospital will lose the case, the case of referring someone means that hospital is involved.
I have taken someone to the hospital and when we were referred, before getting to FMC the person had died, we had nothing on them because we were referred and it happened immediately.
Now someone being rejected outrightly because of police report has been outlawed.

lexylaw40:


https://dailypost.ng/2023/10/27/treat-all-gunshot-victims-without-police-report-igp-orders-health-workers/

Nice motion moved by my very own senator representing the good people of Cross River. Long live Sen Asuquo Ekpenyong!!!

JagabanB:

The issue here is not accident victims, it's stab and gunshot, it's good u are aware that hospitals reject accident victims too which basically doesn't involve the police.
This is a law passed by the Senate, a hospital not doing it is breaking the law and u are letting them get away.
Treat a gunshot wound or stabbed wound patient and report the incident within 2 hours to the police, with that, no police has any right to harass the hospital or doctor, everything is settled.
The reason why is because many medical personnels here don't want to be responsible.
I have been in a hospital where a patient injected with poison was in emergency ward, there's this drug the doctor was supposed to put in his drip, he kept it on his table and started pressing his system, I heard the nurse telling him that's the drug for the guy in emergency ward and casually replied that he knows and he continued handling with his device.
He knows if the guy dies, nothing will come out of it, that's exactly what they do during gunshot and stabbed wound.
A young lady died, do u know what killed her, a wrong operation was carried out on her so side effects started manifesting and she was struggling to heal, when the doctors came to do round ward checking, the mother complained and they replied her angrily that she should be happy her daughter is still alive, they booked her for operation, a correction operation and she died before the next day.
And the family took her for burial and case closed, if that doctor and hospital were hit with a law suit, they will change.

I agree with you 💯, the problem with Nigeria has always been nobody holds anybody accountable especially those in public service, reason why I am not that emphatic with Nigerian doctors when they cry for better welfare from the govt, even though they have legal right to demand better welfare I am not that emphatic with them.

JagabanB:

You were referred is different from "we can't treat the patient because you don't have police report".
With this line, that private hospital will lose the case, the case of referring someone means that hospital is involved.
I have taken someone to the hospital and when we were referred, before getting to FMC the person had died, we had nothing on them because we were referred and it happened immediately.
Now someone being rejected outrightly because of police report has been outlawed.

Okay. I get your point

Yes
Treat and then report to the police as you are doing so. Human life should be first and paramount

naptu2:


The advice from the police (in the past few years) has been, start treating the patient, then send someone to inform the police (or call them). That way the patient lives and the police are aware. Don't refuse treatment.

Exactly. This thing is easy but in Nigeria, we tend to make things complicated. Every hospital must have a good synergy with police station（s） close to it and must have direct contact number（s）/hotline（s） through which the DPO of the/those police department（s） can be notified.
THE police on their part respond by sending （detective）officers in MUFTI to conduct investigation without disrupting the medical processions and without alerting the people who bring the gunshot victim（s） to their identity.

So everybody continues doing their job like nothing is amiss while the medics （stylishly/cunningly） assisted the cops in their investigation. SO everyone can be safe.

mysticwarrior:
Even with this order most hospitals would still request for Police report before treating patients with gunshot wounds, this would be seen as applying precautive measures for their own safety.

No it's not ....its an excuse for laziness....

Cmanforall:


Not in Nigeria

You cannot win this case if it involves a private hospital


Gunshot wounds should think of government hospital first. Hopefully they won't be on strike.

The people that are shouting 'Hospitals must treat gunshot victims' including IG, who is taking up the bills? Do they do the manpower, blood transfusion, surgical procedure costs involved? This people are something else

Shattuck:
I agree with you 💯, the problem with Nigeria has always been nobody holds anybody accountable especially those in public service, reason why I am not that emphatic with Nigerian doctors when they cry for better welfare from the govt, even though they have legal right to demand better welfare I am not that emphatic with them.

These same doctors will come to complain about how bàd Nigèria is.
They need to be held accountable that's what I have been saying.

JagabanB:

The issue here is not accident victims, it's stab and gunshot, it's good u are aware that hospitals reject accident victims too which basically doesn't involve the police.
This is a law passed by the Senate, a hospital not doing it is breaking the law and u are letting them get away.
Treat a gunshot wound or stabbed wound patient and report the incident within 2 hours to the police, with that, no police has any right to harass the hospital or doctor, everything is settled.
The reason why is because many medical personnels here don't want to be responsible.
I have been in a hospital where a patient injected with poison was in emergency ward, there's this drug the doctor was supposed to put in his drip, he kept it on his table and started pressing his system, I heard the nurse telling him that's the drug for the guy in emergency ward and casually replied that he knows and he continued handling with his device.
He knows if the guy dies, nothing will come out of it, that's exactly what they do during gunshot and stabbed wound.
A young lady died, do u know what killed her, a wrong operation was carried out on her so side effects started manifesting and she was struggling to heal, when the doctors came to do round ward checking, the mother complained and they replied her angrily that she should be happy her daughter is still alive, they booked her for operation, a correction operation and she died before the next day.
And the family took her for burial and case closed, if that doctor and hospital were hit with a law suit, they will change.

Ignorance like this is unbelievable!
I don't want to defending people cos I wasn't there but do you have an idea of the diagnosis? No. And I don't know but I have an idea what it is. In my experience, I found out patient narratives are always tinged with falsehood. And I take both sides of an argument

Every hospital should get or acquired handcuff for a purpose like this. They will just handcuff the patient to the hospital bed and treat them and get police involved immediately😂🤣🤣🤣

Cmanforall:


Forget it. You will not win anything, especially from private hospitals.

Do you know their specialty?
You think because it is 'a hospital', then any case will be treated there? Do you know about their facilities?

I say again, go to government hospitals, especially if you are thinking of heading to court later, not privately, because you will lose.
What the private hospitals may do if they don't want to treat the gunshot patient is to refer to a government hospital (they give you a letter, and that is it). Then you have wasted your time there and if unfortunately something bad happens and you head to court, just tell me how you will win

The guy loves hearing the sound of his own voice. He doesn't understand the dynamics of medical care.
If you take a gunshot victim who is bleeding profusely to a cottage hospital with no blood facility , the doc has the power to refer immediately. Keeping the patient is counterproductive and at that point the hospital can be sued if the patient dies.

JagabanB:

We have finally come to an agreement and the agreement is that u folks are busy using the police to cover for ur negligence, ur explanation above has clearly shown that ur interests are the reason why u turn away patients from hospital and the convenient to do is blame the police.
Of course I am ignorant, I can't say I am well versed with hospital laws, if u are so competent and ready to serve like u folks always claim and blame the police, u will not reject a patient that's bleeding to death simply because he doesn't have a school ID, but u all prefer the patient to bleed to death because u are more interested in the finances and u all come back to blame the police.
The law I know 100% is this, the police can't harass u simply because u treated a patient with gunshot wound or stab, it can't happen unless u refused to notify them.
U folks are simply being irresponsible because u haven't met someone who knows himself so much to slam u with a law suit.

I know you're literate so I guess you read the part where I said docs don't make laws. And such laws mandate us not to treat patients without ID. Please take off your hate tinted glasses and read slowly