Chapter 5 verse 101 of Quran;

O you who have believed, do not ask about things which, if they are shown to you, will distress you. But if you ask about them while the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be shown to you. Allah has pardoned that which is past; and Allah is Forgiving and Forbearing.

This is self explanatory; Allah wanted believers around the Messenger [as] as the revelations were still coming down to answer questions and set up their lives; secular on day to day affairs as well as spirituality that they should not ask questions about subject matters just because they need to know. Rather let Allah set up the pattern of life for them, because if they ask what they wished to know the answer, the answer given will distress them, making life difficult for them, restricting them, because Allah had wished to give them in Islam enough freedom, instead they would be using their questioning to create less freedom and much demands and restrictions for themselves.
read it. Allah says He has pardoned them of wrong doings of the past. Allah is Forgiving/as the Only True Forgiver, Allah is Forbearing/ as the Only True One Who can Forbear as to overlook.

tbaba1234:

Hi Mkmyers,

Thanks for your questions even though i do feel it is not totally about Islam:

I would request an open audience that seeks to understand the Islamic position: Because you have made assertions you consider "facts" without a thorough understanding of the Islamic position.

When the Quran talks about torah and the gospel,it talks about the original messages to Moses (A.S) and Jesus (A.S) respectively. You do not have to be a genius to know that in its original form, those messages do not exist. We do not say that the words of God do not exist somewhere within the Torah or the bible. We say, it is not a reliable source because it also contains the word of man, historian and a host off other people. We can explore a little bit about that.

The books that represent the torah are Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. Deuteronomy talks about the death of Moses; so unless Moses could write from the dead, he couldn't possibly write about his death and what happened after. Obviously, these parts could not have been written by Moses. Also, the history of the Torah shows that there have been a need to rewrite the story of Moses after the freedom from Babylon (5 BC), because verses of the torah had been lost. those were still available were incorporated into your current torah. These are facts. Scholars of the Jewish texts recognize this.

Surah 5:45 (i suspect this is what you mean not 5:48)

We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if anyone remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) wrong-doers.

Exodus 21:23-25

23And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

24Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

25Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

I see no problem with this, we acknowledge the words of God that might exist in the present torah, But we maintain that these books have been largely corrupted by the hands of Man...

The Quran states repeatedly that it confirms what was revealed, it never states that it confirms that which was added into the Bible by the scribes.

So the truth of what was revealed in the scriptures are confirmed in the Quran; So you need the Quran to confirm what is truth in the older scriptures not the other way round

The Quran talks about this corruption in the older scriptures:

But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind. – [Quran 5:13]

From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the Day of Judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done. – [Quran 5:14]

The first verse talks about the Jews, the second about the christians

The first verse refers to the Jews as seen from the preceding verse in the Quran. Two points are being stressed in the above verse as can be seen by any layman. First is that the Jews broke the covenant for which they were punished by Allah (swt). Second is that they changed the words of their Scriptures. This is clear evidence that the words of the Torah were changed by the people.

The Quran also clearly mentions people who call themselves “Christians” (i.e. followers of Christ) broke their covenant and abandoned the true message that was sent to them.

Our position is that these books lack reliability and the Quran confirms the truth in them. Belief in scriptures before the Quran only talks about belief in what was originally revealed.

The Quran confirms the truth of revelation.

you quoted 5:71 but i think you refer to 5:69

5:71 says:

They thought there would be no trial (or punishment); so they became blind and deaf: yet Allah (in mercy) turned to them: yet again many of them became blind and deaf. But Allah sees well all that they do.

5;69 says

Surely, those who believe, and those who are the Jews and the Sabians and the Christians, whosoever believed in Allah and the Last Day, and worked righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

I can safely assume you are talking about 5:69, even though it says nothing about their scriptures: If you follow the context of the conversation, it talks about the Jews and the Christians and the sabians before the coming of the final messenger but it has nothing to do with their scriptures. Those who believed in God and hereafter before Muhammad have nothing to fear or grieve.

I would assume you got the reference 5:101 right

O ye who believe! Ask not of things which, if they were made known unto you, would trouble you; but if ye ask of them when the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made known unto you. Allah pardoneth this, for Allah is Forgiving, Clement.

Basically, this verse talks about asking useless questions that do not benefit you or your practice of your religion. Questions that might bring about new rulings that might cause us difficulty. It was revealed when we had muslims who would ask the prophet useless questions like who is my father? or where is my camel? so even though the prophet answered these questions they have no ultimate value.

Clearly forgiving your dodging of all i wrote

So the bible is largely corrupted by men? How is that so? Doesn't the Qur'an suffer same fate? Even Ayesha admitted that not all written revelations where included in the Qur'an (one part was eaten by a Goat),You and I know that the major divisions in Islam (Sunni and Shi'ai) started as a result of variation in quranic text.We even have books by Shiites on their claims which have not been disclaimed.

Kindly explain Sura 2: 106 on the context of a truthful and never changing God in reverence to his revelation

mkmyers45:

Clearly forgiving your dodging of all i wrote

So the bible is largely corrupted by men? How is that so? Doesn't the Qur'an suffer same fate? Even Ayesha admitted that not all written revelations where included in the Qur'an (one part was eaten by a Goat),You and I know that the major divisions in Islam (Sunni and Shi'ai) started as a result of variation in quranic text.We even have books by Shiites on their claims which have not been disclaimed.

Kindly explain Sura 2: 106 on the context of a truthful and never changing God in reverence to his revelation

Your assertions are wrong and false: Please educate yourself before making these kinds of assertions.

The sunni shia divide is not associated with the Quran> It is linked with a leadership issue not with the Quran... more than 99% of muslims hold the view that the Quran has remained unchanged throughout history. The Quran is the same no matter what part of the globe you are. both sunni and shia attest to the same Quran and there are no differences.

The completeness of Quran is so indisputable among Shia that the greatest scholar of Shia in Hadith, Abu Jafar Muhammad Ibn Ali Ibn al-Husain Ibn
Babwayh, known as "Shaykh Saduq" (309/919-381/991), wrote:

"Our belief is that the Quran which Allah revealed to His Prophet
Muhammad is (the same as) the one between the two covers (daffatayn).
And it is the one which is in the hands of the people, and is not
greater in extent than that. The number of surahs as generally
accepted is one hundred and fourteen ...And he who asserts that we say
that it is greater in extent than that, is a liar."

Shi'i reference: Shi'ite Creed (al-I'tiqadat al-Imamiyyah), by Shaykh
Saduq, English version, p77.

There are fringe elements that might exist but they are largely insignificant.

The story about the goat eating is not an authentic tradition and does nothing to change the completeness of the Quran.

About abrogation:

There are laws that were needed given certain social conditions and were abrogated when those conditions did not exist. It has nothing to do with the non-changing nature of God but more with the mercy of allowing us gradually make changes.

Before the verse banning Alcohol, the verse prohibiting one from praying when not in his right senses was revealed;

Gradually, the verse banning Alcohol was revealed:

The creator of the universe knows that social changes in humans have to be gradual and not instantaneous.....

About biblical corruption; this is well documented even biblical scholars acknowledge that:

The revised standard version of the bible had to remove some verses in the new testament because they were later additions to the script. A number of verses are still considered uncertain...

I don't want to get into a discussion about someone else's book. Id rather discuss islam

tbaba1234:

Your assertions are wrong and false: Please educate yourself before making these kinds of assertions.

The sunni shia divide is not associated with the Quran> It is linked with a leadership issue not with the Quran... more than 99% of muslims hold the view that the Quran has remained unchanged throughout history. The Quran is the same no matter what part of the globe you are. both sunni and shia attest to the same Quran and there are no differences.

The completeness of Quran is so indisputable among Shia that the greatest scholar of Shia in Hadith, Abu Jafar Muhammad Ibn Ali Ibn al-Husain Ibn
Babwayh, known as "Shaykh Saduq" (309/919-381/991), wrote:

"Our belief is that the Quran which Allah revealed to His Prophet
Muhammad is (the same as) the one between the two covers (daffatayn).
And it is the one which is in the hands of the people, and is not
greater in extent than that. The number of surahs as generally
accepted is one hundred and fourteen ...And he who asserts that we say
that it is greater in extent than that, is a liar."

Shi'i reference: Shi'ite Creed (al-I'tiqadat al-Imamiyyah), by Shaykh
Saduq, English version, p77.

There are fringe elements that might exist but they are largely insignificant.

The story about the goat eating is not an authentic tradition and does nothing to change the completeness of the Quran.

About abrogation:

There are laws that were needed given certain social conditions and were abrogated when those conditions did not exist.

Because people hold something as true makes it valid. You and I both know must qu'ranic reciters died in jihads after the death of muhammed especially the battle of Al Yemama(N.B: Quranic compilation was done after this by Uthman). Many Shi'te have written books against what they call the corruption in the holy book e.g The Abridgment on the corruption of the book of the lord of lords by Imam Al-Nuri.Are they not seperate versions of the book? or should i show you? Sura 17:86 And if We willed We could withdraw that which We have revealed unto thee, then wouldst thou find no guardian for thee against Us in respect thereof .Can you explain this sura?

tbaba1234: About biblical corruption; this is well documented even biblical scholars acknowledge that:

The revised standard version of the bible had to remove some verses in the new testament because they were later additions to the script. A number of verses are still considered uncertain...

I don't want to get into a discussion about someone else's book. Id rather discuss islam

I AM NOT A CHRISTAIN so lets focus on our discussion.

@tbaba123

If the bible is corrupted as you claim, then where is the original version? How do you know which parts are the words of god and which are not?. . .Why is it that it is ONLY the stories and prophets that appear in the bible that are talked about in details in the koran?. . .Why is allah swearing by himself in the koran and addressing himself in a third person narrative?. . .Muslims have claimed that koran is the word of god because it was written in first person speech unlike the bible, where third person speech is used. But the very first chapter of koran is written in the third person speech.

Surah 1:1-7. "In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds; Most Gracious, Most Merciful; Master of the Day of Judgment. Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek. Show us the straight way, The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray."

This is not the only one example but there are many surahs which are written in third person speech. So if we take the words muslims use against christians then we can also conclude that the koran is not the word of god. . . .

mazaje: @tbaba123

If the bible is corrupted as you claim, then where is the original version? How do you know which parts are the words of god and which are not?. . .Why is it that it is ONLY the stories and prophets that appear in the bible that are talked about in details in the koran?. . .Why is allah swearing by himself in the koran and addressing himself in a third person narrative?. . .Muslims have claimed that koran is the word of god because it was written in first person speech unlike the bible, where third person speech is used. But the very first chapter of koran is written in the third person speech.

Surah 1:1-7. "In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds; Most Gracious, Most Merciful; Master of the Day of Judgment. Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek. Show us the straight way, The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray."

This is not the only one example but there are many surahs which are written in third person speech. So if we take the words muslims use against christians then we can also conclude that the koran is not the word of god. . . .

And yet he claims that the bible is corrupt with word of men.

tbaba1234:

Your assertions are wrong and false: Please educate yourself before making these kinds of assertions.

The sunni shia divide is not associated with the Quran> It is linked with a leadership issue not with the Quran... more than 99% of muslims hold the view that the Quran has remained unchanged throughout history. The Quran is the same no matter what part of the globe you are. both sunni and shia attest to the same Quran and there are no differences.

The completeness of Quran is so indisputable among Shia that the greatest scholar of Shia in Hadith, Abu Jafar Muhammad Ibn Ali Ibn al-Husain Ibn
Babwayh, known as "Shaykh Saduq" (309/919-381/991), wrote:

"Our belief is that the Quran which Allah revealed to His Prophet
Muhammad is (the same as) the one between the two covers (daffatayn).
And it is the one which is in the hands of the people, and is not
greater in extent than that. The number of surahs as generally
accepted is one hundred and fourteen ...And he who asserts that we say
that it is greater in extent than that, is a liar."

Shi'i reference: Shi'ite Creed (al-I'tiqadat al-Imamiyyah), by Shaykh
Saduq, English version, p77.

There are fringe elements that might exist but they are largely insignificant.

The story about the goat eating is not an authentic tradition and does nothing to change the completeness of the Quran.

About abrogation:

There are laws that were needed given certain social conditions and were abrogated when those conditions did not exist. It has nothing to do with the non-changing nature of God but more with the mercy of allowing us gradually make changes.

Before the verse banning Alcohol, the verse prohibiting one from praying when not in his right senses was revealed;

Gradually, the verse banning Alcohol was revealed:

The creator of the universe knows that social changes in humans have to be gradual and not instantaneous.....

Does it make any sense for a god of standard to change slowly to man's taste?

^^

What I fail to understand is this spurious claim from muslims that the koran is the word of some supernatural entity, there is NOTHING in the koran that CANNOT be written by men and could not have been written by men that lived at that time, all its stories and moral teachings are not new or exceptional to the koran, variations of it exist all over the place already. . . nothing written inside is actually original, all its stories were borrow or plagiarized from earlier stories or civilizations. . .Muslims just uphold the assumption that Mohammed was an illiterate and recited the koraic revelations to people. . .They just keep bandying it around as if its true. . .

mkmyers45: Does it make any sense for a god of standard to change slowly to man's taste?

a similar repetitition:

https://www.nairaland.com/908665/what-does-quran-say-itself#10543017

mazaje: ^^

What I fail to understand is this spurious claim from muslims that the koran is the word of some supernatural entity, there is NOTHING in the koran that CANNOT be written by men and could not have been written by men that lived at that time, all its stories and moral teachings are not new or exceptional to the koran, variations of it exist all over the place already. . . nothing written inside is actually original, all its stories were borrow or plagiarized from earlier stories or civilizations. . .Muslims just uphold the assumption that Mohammed was an illiterate and recited the koraic revelations to people. . .They just keep bandying it around as if its true. . .

it is not suprising to hear these words from someone who says electricity is an invention.

you have a long way to go.i dont mean to aggravate your feelings or make you feel bad.but your words lack susbtance.

Pls who built the Kaabah?. . .Muslims claim that Abraham built the Kaabah, pls where is the evidence for this?. . .

LagosShia:


it is not suprising to hear these words from someone who says electricity is an invention.

you have a long way to go.i dont mean to aggravate your feelings or make you feel bad.but your words lack susbtance.

What is more surprising is you that listed coffe as the contribution of islam. . . . . . .What exactly is inside the koran that could not have been written by men?. . .Why is it that ONLY the stories and prophets that appear in the bible are talked about in details in the koran?. . .Why do muslims use the bible to validate islam?. . .

mazaje: ^^

What I fail to understand is this spurious claim from muslims that the koran is the word of some supernatural entity, there is NOTHING in the koran that CANNOT be written by men and could not have been written by men that lived at that time, all its stories and moral teachings are not new or exceptional to the koran, variations of it exist all over the place already. . . nothing written inside is actually original, all its stories were borrow or plagiarized from earlier stories or civilizations. . .Muslims just uphold the assumption that Mohammed was an illiterate and recited the koraic revelations to people. . .They just keep bandying it around as if its true. . .

Where is the Original Qu'ran? is the one uthman put together or the hot scripts from Heaven?

mazaje:

What is more surprising is you that listed coffe as the contribution of islam. . . . . . .What exactly is inside the koran that could not have been written by men?. . .Why is it that ONLY the stories and prophets that appear in the bible are talked about in details in the koran?. . .Why do muslims use the bible to validate islam?. . .

A corrupted and invalid bible at that. His sig is even to attack the bible but times without number he goes to the bible to prove himself. Disgusting aint it?

mkmyers45: Because people hold something as true makes it valid. You and I both know must qu'ranic reciters died in jihads after the death of muhammed especially the battle of Al Yemama(N.B: Quranic compilation was done after this by Uthman). Many Shi'te have written books against what they call the corruption in the holy book e.g The Abridgment on the corruption of the book of the lord of lords by Imam Al-Nuri.Are they not seperate versions of the book? or should i show you? Sura 17:86 And if We willed We could withdraw that which We have revealed unto thee, then wouldst thou find no guardian for thee against Us in respect thereof .Can you explain this sura?

You feign knowledge of Islam but have proved largely ignorant so far with all due respect.

Some people who memorised the Quran died, This prompted a compilation of the book..... Every muslim memorises a part of the Quran so unless the muslims were at the point of extinction , the use of the word 'most' is not accurate.

Who are the many shites?? 99% of the shiite hold the same position as sunnis. Like i said, fringe elements do exist. You can confirm the position of the shia from lagos shia. Who is imam al nuri?? He is not known anywhere in muslim circles.... There are no two versions of the Quran.

Sura 17:86-88

86. And if We willed, We could surely take away that which We have revealed to you. Then you would find no protector for you against Us in that respect.87. Except as a mercy from your Lord. Verily, His grace unto you is ever great. 88. Say: "If mankind and the Jinn were together to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they helped one another.''

The verses simply make the point that Quran is a mercy upon mankind as evidenced by the next verse(87). The point is that we appreciate this mercy because if God decides to take it away we have no protector against God.

I would appreciate if you stop reading anti-muslim sites and learn islam from muslims. I am here to answer genuine question not to engage in a debate.

tbaba1234:

You feign knowledge of Islam but have proved largely ignorant so far with all due respect.

Some people who memorised the Quran died, This prompted a compilation of the book..... Every muslim memorises a part of the Quran so unless the muslims were at the point of extinction , the use of the word 'most' is not accurate.

Who are the many shites?? 99% of the shiite hold the same position as sunnis. Like i said, fringe elements do exist. You can confirm the position of the shia from lagos shia. Who is imam al nuri?? He is not known anywhere in muslim circles.... There are no two versions of the Quran.

Sura 17:86-88

86. And if We willed, We could surely take away that which We have revealed to you. Then you would find no protector for you against Us in that respect.87. Except as a mercy from your Lord. Verily, His grace unto you is ever great. 88. Say: "If mankind and the Jinn were together to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they helped one another.''

The verses simply make the point that Quran is a mercy upon mankind as evidenced by the next verse(87). The point is that we appreciate this mercy because if God decides to take it away we have no protector against God.

I would appreciate if you stop reading anti-muslim sites and learn islam from muslims. I am here to answer genuine question not to engage in a debate.

You have sumed up your biased view points all in one. I remember lagoshia writing about his apparent hate for uthman so you think he will rever what uthman put together?

LagosShia: this only exists in your speculation that the Quran in use is "usthman's version".had it being Usthman's version,i as a Shia (knowing the dislike the Shia have for Usthman) would be the first to reject it.but it is not.

so clearly the are versions of the qu'ran. You also clearly state that every muslim memoirs some part so clearly what happened to parts memorized by those that died?

@mkmyers

You are indeed very correct sir. If God as described by the religious people is truly omniscient;then it really makes no sense that He reveals in the same scripture one thing only to be invalidated by another revelation.
mr, please do not confuse the adherents of any religion, with the religion itself. Todays islam has absolutely nothing to do with muhammad.the true islam preached by muhammad is buried under tradition, religious dogma and superstition.

abrogation of quranic verses is an invention by the islamic scholars centuries after the death of that noble servant of God. I did present a detailed refutation on this a while ago. Just search for "Quran abrogation:truth or fallacy" using the NL search engine. Pardon me, am using my phone so i can't provide the link.

mazaje: @tbaba123

If the bible is corrupted as you claim, then where is the original version? How do you know which parts are the words of god and which are not?. . .Why is it that it is ONLY the stories and prophets that appear in the bible that are talked about in details in the koran?. . .Why is allah swearing by himself in the koran and addressing himself in a third person narrative?. . .Muslims have claimed that koran is the word of god because it was written in first person speech unlike the bible, where third person speech is used. But the very first chapter of koran is written in the third person speech.

Surah 1:1-7. "In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds; Most Gracious, Most Merciful; Master of the Day of Judgment. Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek. Show us the straight way, The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray."

This is not the only one example but there are many surahs which are written in third person speech. So if we take the words muslims use against christians then we can also conclude that the koran is not the word of god. . . .

We do not make judgement on what part of the other scriptures are from God or not. The Quran confirms what is true about the scripture...anything not mentioned in the Quran could be true or untrue. We place our reliance on the Quran alone.

It is untrue that only the prophets in the bible have detailed stories; we have the stories of Hud and Salih fairly detailed in the Quran: Particularly salih. The Quran was speaking to an audience and its speech is related to the audience it spoke to; The stories of Jewish prophets were relevant to preaching the message to the audience... If the quran spoke about prophets from Africa or Europe:: That does not resonate with a Jew.

These stories were revealed way before contact with Jews and Half the Rabbis of Medina became Muslims. What does that tell you.

The use of first, second or third persons depends on the discourse.

you must understand that the Quran was not revealed in the form of a document or a book, but rather it was revealed by inspiration to Prophet Mohamed (saws) in the form of discourses over a period of 23 years; which the Noble Prophet (saws) recited and declared verbatim to his listerners.

Thus, in the course of revelation, at times it seems that Allah Subhanah is addressing mankind in the first person, most times it seems the Lord is addressing Prophet Mohamed (saws) as in a conversation or the second person, and at times it seems that the Merciful Lord is speaking in the third person, narrating the Truth of what transpired in the past or what will transpire in the future! All three modes of conversation have been utilized by the All-Knowing, All Wise Lord for his chosen last and final Message, which He revealed as the Book of Guidance to all mankind until the end of time.

Examples of when Allah addresses His slaves in the first person in the Quran:

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 22 Surah Hajj verse 5: O mankind! If ye have a doubt about the Resurrection (consider) that We created you out of dust then out of sperm then out of a leech-like clot then out a morsel of flesh partly formed and partly unformed in order that We may manifest (Our Power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term then do We bring you out as babes then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die and some are sent back to the feeblest old age so that they know nothing after having known (much). And (further) thou seest the earth barren and lifeless but when We pour down rain on it it is stirred (to life) it swells and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs).

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 7 Aaraaf verse 27: O ye children of Adam! Let not the Shaytaan seduce you in the same manner as he got your parents out of the garden stripping them of their raiment to expose their shame: for he and his tribe watch you from a position where ye cannot see them: We made the evil ones friends (only) to those without faith.

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 2 Baqarah verses 47-48:
47 O children of Israel! Call to mind the (special) favor which I bestowed upon You and that I preferred you to all others (for My message).
48 Then guard yourselves against a day when one soul shall not avail another, nor shall intercession be accepted for her, nor shall compensation be taken from her, nor shall anyone be helped (from outside).

Examples of when the Lord addresses the Prophet Mohamed (saws):

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 33 Surah Ahzaab verse 45: O Prophet! Truly We have sent thee as a Witness, a Bearer of Glad Tidings, and a Warner

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 33 Surah Ahzaab verse 28: O Prophet! Say to thy Consorts: "If it be that ye desire the life of this world and its glitter then come! I will provide for your enjoyment and set you free in a handsome manner."

Examples of when the Lord All-Mighty address mankind in the third person:

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 2 Surah Baqarah verse 255: Allah! There is no Allah but He the living the Self-subsisting Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to his creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. For He is the Most High the Supreme (in glory).

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 59 Surah Hashr verses 22-24:
22 Allah is He than whom there is no other god, Who knows (all things) both secret and open; He Most Gracious Most Merciful.
23 Allah is He than whom there is no other god, The Sovereign, The Holy One, The Source of Peace (and Perfection), The Guardian of Faith, The Preserver of Safety, The Exalted in Might, The Irresistible, The Supreme: Glory to Allah! (High is He) above the partners they attribute to Him.
24 He is Allah, The Creator, The Evolver, The Bestower of Forms (or colors). To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names: Whatever is in the heavens and on earth doth declare His Praises and Glory: and He is the Exalted in Might, The Wise.

The All Wise, All Knowing Lord has chosen all kinds of ways to portray His Divine Message to mankind to guide them to the Straight Path; and He best Knows which is the best form of relaying His Diving Message to His slaves. As believers, we are satisfied with Allah being our Lord and with everything He does and Commands, we are satisfied with Islam being our deen, and we are satisfied with the Message He has chosen for our guidance.

usisky: @mkmyers

You are indeed very correct sir. If God as described by the religious people is truly omniscient;then it really makes no sense that He reveals in the same scripture one thing only to be invalidated by another revelation.
mr, please do not confuse the adherents of any religion, with the religion itself. Todays islam has absolutely nothing to do with muhammad.the true islam preached by muhammad is buried under tradition, religious dogma and superstition.

abrogation of quranic verses is an invention by the islamic scholars centuries after the death of that noble servant of God. I did present a detailed refutation on this a while ago. Just search for "Quran abrogation:truth or fallacy" using the NL search engine. Pardon me, am using my phone so i can't provide the link.

i will like tbaba1234 to say something on this.

mkmyers45: You have sumed up your biased view points all in one. I remember lagoshia writing about his apparent hate for uthman so you think he will rever what uthman put together? so clearly the are versions of the qu'ran.

you sir are an a$$hole (pardon my language).you remember? was it not today i spoke about that?

how mischievous you really try to twist my statement.you said Usthman compiled the Quran and made an "authorized Quran version".i told you that the Quran from its revelation/inception was written and memorized in the days of the Prophet (sa).i also told you that what Usthman did is acceptable to me as a Shia and to the Shia generally because he did not do anything from himself.had he done that,we Shia who are not fond of Usthman would have certainly rejected it.but we Shia accepted the copies Usthman made from the original manuscripts left as written records by the Prophet (sa) and also through the memory of the scribes the Prophet (sa) taught.there is nothing wrong Usthman did by making standard copies and sending the copies to different parts of the muslim world to help people of different languages from confusing with what is Quran and what is not.

with all our dislike for Usthman,we do not discredit the copies he made.even our first Imam, Imam Ali (as) who was the first after the demise of the Prophet (sa) to compile the Quran with commentary did not object to Usthman's effort.

you are very annoying for trying to put words into my mouth,when i really said the opposite of what you are trying to attribute to me.here is the link:

https://www.nairaland.com/908665/what-does-quran-say-itself#10543039

mkmyers45: i will like tbaba1234 to say something on this.

there is really nothing like abrogation in the holy Quran.

you can refer to this:

"The Collection and Preservation of the Qur'an:
by Ayatullah Sayyid Abul Qasim al Khui

http://www.al-islam.org/tahrif_quran/

mazaje:

What is more surprising is you that listed coffe as the contribution of islam. . . . . . .What exactly is inside the koran that could not have been written by men?. . .Why is it that ONLY the stories and prophets that appear in the bible are talked about in details in the koran?. . .Why do muslims use the bible to validate islam?. . .

i listed coffee because i stated that i believe that whatever contribution that came through muslim civilization or muslim thinkers is thanks to Islam.Islam reformed arabia and without it arabia was very backward.

we do not use the bible to "validate" the Quran.the Quran validates itself and in many instances differs on subjects it shares with the bible.and truly the Quranic stance always comes out correct.

Abrogation of verses has been largely abused particularly in the modern days. The muslims were simply eased into their new way of life by a series of laws: None contradicting the other. I highlighted the example of alcohol already.

LagosShia:

there is really nothing like abrogation in the holy Quran.

you can refer to this:

"The Collection and Preservation of the Qur'an:
by Ayatullah Sayyid Abul Qasim al Khui

http://www.al-islam.org/tahrif_quran/

Rofl ..ukisky and tbaba1234 think otherwise.

tbaba1234: Abrogation of verses has been largely abused particularly in the modern days. The muslims were simply eased into their new way of life by a series of laws: None contradicting the other. I highlighted the example of alcohol already.

Have you read the Corruption and Substition by Muhammad Ibn Hassan Al-Sairafi?

LagosShia:

you sir are an a$$hole (pardon my language).you remember? was it not today i spoke about that?

how mischievous you really try to twist my statement.you said Usthman compiled the Quran and made an "authorized Quran version".i told you that the Quran from its revelation was written and memorized in the days of the Prophet (sa).i also told you that what Usthman did is acceptable to me as a Shia and to the Shia generally because he did not do anything from himself.had he done that,we Shia who are not fond of Usthman would have certainly rejected it.but we Shia accepted the copies Usthman made from the original manuscripts left as written records by the Prophet (sa) and also through the memory of the scribes the Prophet (sa) taught.there is nothing wrong Usthman did by making standard copies and sending the copies to different parts of the muslim world to help people of different languages from confusing with what is Quran and what is not.

with all our dislike for Usthman,we do not discredit the copies he made.even our first Imam, Imam Ali (as) who was the first after the demise of the Prophet (sa) to compile the Quran with commentary did not object to Usthman's effort.

you are very annoying for trying to put words into my mouth,when i really said the opposite of what you are trying to attribute to me.here is the link:

https://www.nairaland.com/908665/what-does-quran-say-itself#10543039

I laugh in Arabic.I wont go down that path with you. So we have uthmans copy and imam Ali's copy? definitely those two copies are very different. im sorry but i quoted exactly what you wrote and know you've made it clear they definitely is some diffrence hence the diffrence from other muslims.

mkmyers45: Rofl ..ukisky and tbaba1234 think otherwise. Have you read the Corruption and Substition by Muhammad Ibn Hassan Al-Sairafi?

what tbaba for instance said about alcohol is true and correct even if he thinks that is called "abrogation".

what a christian or yourself think about the term "abrogation" is one verse coming to cancel another or contradicting the other.that is not the case in the Quran.there is uniformity and consistency.

in the case of alcohol,muslims were told not to drink and pray.that still holds even when alcohol is totally forbidden.you can't drink and pray even if you've broken the laws of not drinking.also,drinking is described as an influence of satan.simply because there was persuasion and gradual steps to shun alcohol does not mean there is any contradiction when finally we are told to shun it and abstain from it.and even if someone like tbaba thinks that is abrogation,that is fine with me because i am 100% certain that tbaba believes there is no contradiction.yet still,i hold to my own view that we should rightly not think that is abrogation because the mischief mongers like yourself think negatively of the word "abrogation" and try to throw in speculation and doubts.

mkmyers45: I laugh in Arabic.I wont go down that path with you. So we have uthmans copy and imam Ali's copy? definitely those two copies are very different. im sorry but i quoted exactly what you wrote and know you've made it clear they definitely is some diffrence hence the diffrence from other muslims.

so how did you know there are differences?

two men made copies of the same books,from the same source and method and one accepts the other's.how does that imply that there is difference?

@Tbaba . Peace.

i really do believe that you doing what u doing out of honorable intentions. We have never had any aquaintance, maybe cos u are new here. I said something here in d past and i will say it again: until the muslims realize that they have been mislead en masse, and decide to make a change to restore islam to its pristine purity- the world will never acknowledge the quran as God's word.
What MAZAJE and others say about islam is the reality as seen today .the muslims invented indefensible tales(lies: hadith & sunnah) and attributed them prophet muhammad.this is what is haunting them today.this is all due to ease of access to information, and am happy to that.

To discuss about the corruption in islam will take months. However, i see that u appear to be a sincere person as opposed to the others i had chats with before. So, i will start by inviting u to consinder the following proposition:
1)visit: www.miracleof19.org , www.masjidtucson , www.submission.org

2)after u have perused through the infos there, then we can have an open discussion.

LagosShia:

what tbaba for instance said about alcohol is true and correct even if he thinks that is called "abrogation".

what a christian or yourself think about the term "abrogation" is one verse coming to cancel another or contradicting the other.that is not the case in the Quran.there is uniformity and consistency.

in the case of alcohol,muslims were told not to drink and pray.that still holds even when alcohol is totally forbidden.you can't drink and pray even if you've broken the laws of not drinking.also,drinking is described as an influence of satan.simply because there was persuasion and gradual steps to shun alcohol does not mean there is any contradiction when finally we are told to shun it and abstain from it.and even if someone like tbaba thinks that is abrogation,that is fine with me because i am 100% certain that tbaba believes there is no contradiction.yet still,i hold to my own view that we should rightly not think that is abrogation because the mischief mongers like yourself think negatively of the word "abrogation" and try to throw in speculation and doubts.

hmmm a new stance? Shoulda known. You can just make what is there go away.

usisky: @Tbaba . Peace.

i really do believe that you doing what u doing out of honorable intentions. We have never had any aquaintance, maybe cos u are new here. I said something here in d past and i will say it again: until the muslims realize that they have been mislead en masse, and decide to make a change to restore islam to its pristine purity- the world will never acknowledge the quran as God's word.
What MAZAJE and others say about islam is the reality as seen today .the muslims invented indefensible tales(lies: hadith & sunnah) and attributed them prophet muhammad.this is what is haunting them today.this is all due to ease of access to information, and am happy to that.

To discuss about the corruption in islam will take months. However, i see that u appear to be a sincere person as opposed to the others i had chats with before. So, i will start by inviting u to consinder the following proposition:
1)visit: www.miracleof19.org , www.masjidtucson , www.submission.org

2)after u have perused through the infos there, then we can have an open discussion.

WORD!