SIRcumalot:

DJ Spinall
oya tell us how.

when the cavs win,bron won't still be the goat,no be my argument be that.

How not?

The Cavs are as loaded as Golden State. Their bench is even more experienced, they are bigger! Look at their starting V and tell me apart from SG where else Golden State have the significant edge. Let me also show you how the Cavs have the better C

You should be the one telling us why Golden State is so vastly superior to the Cavs.

SIRcumalot:

what is being left on said in this smoke screen of a comment is that:Pippen,was an alpha dog on a 50 win bulls team that lost to the Knicks in the 2nd round.
and is still one of the greatest perimeter defender of all time.
na only Wade close in terms of all time ranking.

Lmao. Wade took the Heat to a 7 game series without Bosh or James so your Pippen example isn't saying much. Why not tell us what the Bulls record was before Jordan returned in 94/95 to bail the team out?

Remove Pippen put Glen Rice, James Worthy, MJ winning his rings still. Pippen went to join Barkley, Olajuwon still no ring. That should tell you why M.J is the G.O.A.T

Donlittle:
fam i said star, or let me rephrase, superstar. I don't get you o. I am saying every star player lebron has played with is a better offensive player that pippen. Did he play with a perennial all star in his first years in cleveland? In 2015, did the NBA playoffs only included nba finals right away? or the conference games wasn't involved?

Oh. I see we're not talking about the same thing. I agree with yours

My only agreement stems from the fact that Lebron's assists are high cos he plays with superstars which isn't the reason.

Sorry for the misquote

Muna15:

Wow!

It's funny how people think Pippen was the only great G on Michael's team. It might be interesting to remind you that Michael also had Rodman, one of the best rebounders of all time, and Steve Kerr who is the most accurate three point shooter in NBA history.

In all, I think it's a good thing that people are comparing LeBron, who is not a scorer,to Michael who was a 10x NBA Scoring champion. It shows LeBron is doing more than just shooting the basketball.

The scary part is just that LeBron isn't done yet!

Lmaoo. Rodman and Kerr were not even there for the first 3peat. They were role players that were easily interchangeable.

How is Lebron not a scorer bikonu? Wetin e come be?

We might as well say Jordan was not just a scorer too. A 1.1 assist differential with weaker scorers show M.J was also a passer

M.J could do it all.

Muna15:


Spot on, Man! God bless you!

To add to the your fact, Pippen also led the Bulls team to the playoffs after Michael left and Mic didn't win until he came along. So,We can't even compare Pippen with Kyrie and Love who were not successful with their teams before the new Cavs team was set up.

A team fresh off a 3peat with Phil Jackson won't just die like that. We saw the Heat without James, Bosh still make the playoffs.

What was the situation on ground when Kyrie and Love got to their respective teams?

Roland17:


I absolutely enjoy rare debates with you because they are respectful, and devoid of emotional tantrums, so yes, it would end in a cool manner as always.

I have to say in some ways, i am now entertaining the argument that Lebron may be the G.O.A.T in modern era in comparison to the "black mamba". His display over the past 2 seasons has elevated the intensity of that conversation in my books.

However, I disagree with your assertion about assists because Jordan's playoff's career APG (Assist per game) is 5.7, while Lebron's is 6.8, that is 1.1 assist more than Jordan. The difference in career assist is not particularly a gulf between both, thus, If Lebron did not make the 1 assist and it is converted to points in his playoff game history, he may achieve Jordan's record with lesser than 33 games.

During his championship seasons, Lebron played with the best. He has always assembled the best players for a championship run and that invariable increases his APG numbers. Quality of offensive players is an important dynamic in the cycle of scoring because good players turn bad passes into assists for the passer. Today he plays with 2 perennial all stars in Love and Kyrie, and potent perimeter scorers in Korver, D. Williams and others. This increases his chances of stacking up those assist numbers. Do i need to remind you of those he played with in Miami?

So you see, the 1.1 difference in playoff APG is not particularly a gulf if he dynamics of the team and era of both players are considered.

We always have to remember the dynamics of both era's are quite different. During Jordan's era Low post scoring, mid range jumpers, drive to the baskets, and pure PG passing were considered offense, the 3 point scoring was never prioritized thus Jordan and his peers did not bother improving that skill. In contrast to today's fast paced, transition basketball where 3 point shooting is the prioritized offense for the best teams in the NBA.

When Bron joined the NBA, he did not have the 3 point shooting, however, i credit him for developing that aspect of his game. It does not mean he is a clutch 3 point shooter or the best 3 point shooter in his team, it just means he evolved his game to suit the demands of the current league which ultimately provides him more leverage to score more buckets.

I'm not saying JAmes is better than Mike, its still an illustration that there is a debate worth having. This looks good when breaking it down the APG to James having 1.1APG over jordan. In number, James has 400 more assist than jordan.

You're comparing Jordan's teams after they became a contender in 1990 and LeBron after he left Cleveland. Let's not talk like James started his career in Miami cause you listed Wade, Bosh, Irving and Love, talk about his playoffs years in Cavs were he has had to share shots with another guard-type scorer as opposed to a center, but had no one.

Don't tag black mamba here cause the aurgument has changed to players who had more supporting cast. Shaq,Gasol,Bynum,Odom,Artest would get you more rings compared to Bosh,Wade,Irving,Love and Maybe Mo williams. He had the best supporting cast than jordan and LeBron.

Una no dey tire?

A40:

A team fresh off a 3peat with Phil Jackson won't just die like that. We saw the Heat without James, Bosh still make the playoffs.

What was the situation on ground when Kyrie and Love got to their respective teams?

Congrats to you and your Penguins, you guys barely escaped the Senators after double over time.

Well, here comes PK Suban and his Predators.

A40:

Lmao. Wade took the Heat to a 7 game series without Bosh or James so your Pippen example isn't saying much. Why not tell us what the Bulls record was before Jordan returned in 94/95 to bail the team out?

Remove Pippen put Glen Rice, James Worthy, MJ winning his rings still. Pippen went to join Barkley, Olajuwon still no ring. That should tell you why M.J is the G.O.A.T

I should ask If Jordan ever did anything since they both left the bulls.Those wizards years happened.
No need for repetition already said Wade was closer.
Two game below .500 in the first half Of the season isn't a great Way of telling me that.

Don't need no lesson On why Jordan is the GOAT,no come pull wool for our eye with this offensive bull crap.
When Jordan left you saw his production increase,and he led the bulls for Any meaningful stat that season.
You remember the failed big 4 in Houston with players out of their prime but conveniently forgot his best post Jordan work on The blazers. wetin be that?

A40:

How not?

The Cavs are as loaded as Golden State. Their bench is even more experienced, they are bigger! Look at their starting V and tell me apart from SG where else Golden State have the significant edge. Let me also show you how the Cavs have the better C

You should be the one telling us why Golden State is so vastly superior to the Cavs.

two of the top 5,4 of the top 10 players in the league.
Three all NBA team members
Former FMVP in contention for the 6th man award(bench player)
favourite to win DPOY is on the warriors.
3 Almost 7 footers in rotation who doubles as rim protector.
If the cavs bench was so stacked why is bron playing heavy minutes all season long?.

how many elite teams in the 90's had multiple 20 pPg player?
maybe something we should all look up.

Please no excuses when the time comes. The regular season was tied. Let's forget the bullshìt.


I repeat, no excuses and no superstacked team BS. There's no playing underdog so we won't have much to say if Cavs lose. No!! It's not welcomed.

May the best team win..
No excuses.

SIRcumalot:

two of the top 5,4 of the top 10 players in the league.
Three all NBA team members
Former FMVP in contention for the 6th man award(bench player)
favourite to win DPOY is on the warriors.
3 Almost 7 footers in rotation who doubles as rim protector.
If the cavs bench was so stacked why is bron playing heavy minutes all season long?.

Abeg abeg. Klay Thompson is not a top 15 player let alone top 10


So you go siddan like this call 10 players in the NBA and Klay Thompson go appear? Ha!

SIRcumalot:
how many elite teams in the 90's had multiple 20 pPg player?
maybe something we should all look up.

I hope you're making case against both Cavs and Warriors cos both have multiple 20ppg players

Love was on 21ppg until injury did him in and his minutes got slashed.

Decale:



Abeg abeg. Klay Thompson is not a top 15 player let alone top 10


So you go siddan like this call 10 players in the NBA and Klay Thompson go appear? Ha!

I don't know about top 10 players but on that all NBA team Klay and not Butler should have made that list.

As a Bulls fan you may not agree, but Klay was and is clearly better than Butler.

aliondo:


lol...Lavar Ball was savage.....

LOL, you figured it out.

SmooshCHN:
Please no excuses when the time comes. The regular season was tied. Let's forget the bullshìt.


I repeat, no excuses and no superstacked team BS. There's no playing underdog so we won't have much to say if Cavs lose. No!! It's not welcomed.

May the best team win..
No excuses.

Even with KD and after that Dec 25 loss, pundits kept saying Cavs have GSWs number. I wonder when the narrative changed to make them underdogs.

Eruditor:


I don't know about top 10 players but on that all NBA team Klay and not Butler should have made that list.

As a Bulls fan you may not agree, but Klay was and is clearly better than Butler.

This season, they were both averages and badly inconsistent. However, Butler had more impact than Thompson.

Both are playing different positions. And I already wrote my all NBA team without including Butler or Klay. So, I do not understand where Butler came from

Klay wasn't even a top 3 SG individually this season. Players like Derozan, Beal and McCollum did better, all reproduced even this post season unlike Klay. Only when you check as a team, some people pip Klay.

You come to me last season and say Klay is a top 10, I might not argue. This season? Not even top 15....

If you make a top 10MVP ranking this season, will Klay Thompson be there?

You're a Warriors fan, so I expect sentimental debates from now on

Even if you want to replace Butler, there's Hayward, Cousins. Which one be Klay Thompson?

Decale:


This season, they were both averages and badly inconsistent. However, Butler had more impact than Thompson.

Both are playing different positions. And I already wrote my all NBA team without including Butler or Klay. So, I do not understand where Butler came from

Klay wasn't even a top 3 SG individually this season. Players like Derozan, Beal and McCollum did better, all reproduced even this post season unlike Klay. Only when you check as a team, some people pip Klay.

You come to me last season and say Klay is a top 10, I might not argue. This season? Not even top 15....

If you make a top 10MVP ranking this season, will Klay Thompson be there?

You're a Warriors fan, so I expect sentimental debates from now on

Butler did not have more impact than Klay whether on the moon or on earth. That is your Bulls' talking. Butler is the primary scoring option for his team and Klay was number 3 yet averaged about the same with him and eclipsed him totally defensively.

I mentioned Butler with respect to the ALL NBA team that was announced as that gives us an indication about the top 15 players in the league. That is why I clearly said I DON'T KNOW ABOUT TOP 10 but that he and not Butler should have made that All NBA team (thus placing him top 15).

Derozan, Beal and McCollum are numbers 1, 2, 2 scoring options to heavy Iso teams and Klay was number 3 yet their numbers don't far outclass his with less efficiency as well. When Klay became number 2 option in GSW (When KD got injured) Klay played substantially better than all those players listed above bar none.

Post season is post season. If that were not the case, SC should be above Harden and Westbrook in the MVP race.

Again, I wonder why I tend to be the most misread poster on this thread; I lucidly, explicitly, unobstrusively, unencumberedly, unhesitantly declared that I am not talking about top 10 but that I can make an argument for top 15 based on that ALL NBA team.

I guess "recency bias" is the reason the 2 people that liked your post did that. His playoffs form is beclouding people's judgment about his regular season form.

Decale:
Even if you want to replace Butler, there's Hayward, Cousins. Which one be Klay Thompson?

Hayward and Cousins are not SGs last I checked so his spot is not being contended with them.

SmooshCHN:
Please no excuses when the time comes. The regular season was tied. Let's forget the bullshìt.


I repeat, no excuses and no superstacked team BS. There's no playing underdog so we won't have much to say if Cavs lose. No!! It's not welcomed.

May the best team win..
No excuses.

This is what we are drumming into the Lebron fanboys ears. I pray none of their players injure, not even Dante Jones ditto Golden State. I no just wan hear the excuse some of them are already making

Eruditor:


Hayward and Cousins are not SGs last I checked so his spot is not being contended with them.

All NBA team is not about positions. 2 people of the same position can be in an NBA team. Leonard and Bron occupy one team as well as Curry/IT and Harden/WB

Deandre is in there. Does that make him better than Cousins in top 15? Lol

Derozan, Beal and McCollum are numbers 1, 2, 2 scoring options to heavy Iso teams and Klay was number 3 yet their numbers don't far outclass his with less efficiency as well. When Klay became number 2 option in GSW (When KD got injured) Klay played substantially better than all those players listed above bar none.

It's nobody's business if he's number 3 or number 1. Last season, he did; this season, he didn't. That's that
And how do numbers tell the whole story?
Have his numbers deviated much from last season?
Love having more numbers than Draymond doesn't make him better. If we're all about numbers, we can start including Wiggins and Paul George above Hayward this season.

Butler did not have more impact than Klay whether on the moon or on earth. That is your Bulls' talking. Butler is the primary scoring option for his team and Klay was number 3 yet averaged about the same with him and eclipsed him totally defensively.

Defensively? Yes
Offensively? No

Butler was better in creating shots, passing and closing out games. He's sadly as inconsistent as Klay and both shouldn't even be in the all NBA team. I don't know why this argument is still going on

A40:

This is what we are drumming into the Lebron fanboys ears. I pray none of their players injure, not even Dante Jones ditto Golden State. I no just wan hear the excuse some of them are already making

Both teams are equal

They're mentioning final MVP of 2015 like na the same player we dey see for 2017

Even Cavs bench is more potent. You have Deron, Korver, Shumpert, Frye and you're still ruling out Cavs.

Tristan Thompson vs Zaza nko?

SIRcumalot:

two of the top 5,4 of the top 10 players in the league.
Three all NBA team members
Former FMVP in contention for the 6th man award(bench player)
favourite to win DPOY is on the warriors.
3 Almost 7 footers in rotation who doubles as rim protector.
If the cavs bench was so stacked why is bron playing heavy minutes all season long?.

Curry - Irving
Klay - Smith
Durant - Lebron
Green - Love
Pachulia - Thompson

Guys like Tony Parker, Ginobili never made All-NBA teams but we know their quality. Look at that list and tell me where the Warriors have an edge aside SG

Even based on this year's ballots we could argue Golden State have no player in the top 5. While the Cavs do. Who are the 7ft rim protectors? I hope you are not talking about Zaza Pachulia, David West dem

Bron is a stats lover. That is part of why he is playing heavy minutes.

Decale:


Both teams are equal

They're mentioning final MVP of 2015 like na the same player we dey see for 2017

Even Cavs bench is more potent. You have Deron, Korver, Shumpert, Frye and you're still ruling out Cavs.

Tristan Thompson vs Zaza nko?

Lmao the same Iguodala whose shooting range don get network failure like glo. Iggy has clearly regressed. Their bench is Iggy and Livingston, the rest na D-League products and a washed up David West.

Me I just wan make e tell us the 3 7ft rim protectors wey dey Golden State

Decale:


All NBA team is not about positions. 2 people of the same position can be in an NBA team. Leonard and Bron occupy one team as well as Curry/IT and Harden/WB

Deandre is in there. Does that make him better than Cousins in top 15? Lol




It's nobody's business if he's number 3 or number 1. Last season, he did; this season, he didn't. That's that
And how do numbers tell the whole story?
Have his numbers deviated much from last season?
Love having more numbers than Draymond doesn't make him better. If we're all about numbers, we can start including Wiggins and Paul George above Hayward this season.




Defensively? Yes
Offensively? No

Butler was better in creating shots, passing and closing out games. He's sadly as inconsistent as Klay and both shouldn't even be in the all NBA team. I don't know why this argument is still going on

Ofcourse I know the ALL NBA is not about positions, that is why I am making my case for Klay and Butler even though they listed Jimmy as an SF.

Again, I could have decided to argue about Deandre being on the list but it is not the crux of my point. The lists are questionable there is no gainsaying that. After all, Klay is not on the list. I am using the list to make an argument for Klay being top 15.

LOL, it is not about numbers. In fact, numbers is the only reason Derozan is on that list. Defensively Klay shytes on him and offensively, one can argue Klay will outdo him if he was the primary scorer of his team.

Klay also created his shots better this year. He was the leader of the 2nd team for GSW. Jimmy might pass better but he is not even that great of a passer. I am glad you know Klay was better defensively, on offense, Jimmy averaged 22.4ppg as the top man for Bulls. Klay had 22.3 as the number 3 option. You say e no matter because e no get weight and no occupy space

The point I was even trying to make is that Klay has an argument as a top 15 player and so does Kyrie (even though both do not make the All NBA team).

I am actually agreeing with you that Cavs and GSW measure out.

SIRcumalot:

I should ask If Jordan ever did anything since they both left the bulls.Those wizards years happened.
No need for repetition already said Wade was closer.
Two game below .500 in the first half Of the season isn't a great Way of telling me that.

Don't need no lesson On why Jordan is the GOAT,no come pull wool for our eye with this offensive bull crap.
When Jordan left you saw his production increase,and he led the bulls for Any meaningful stat that season.
You remember the failed big 4 in Houston with players out of their prime but conveniently forgot his best post Jordan work on The blazers. wetin be that?

Lmaoo. Who was Jordan's #2 at the Wizards? Can you tell us who he was without the help of google? You are expecting magic from a player that left the game for 3 years and returned at 38

I don't know why you are in touch with your feelings now. The players he failed with at the Rockets had more combined talent than the Bulls roster

Even if we check that Blazers team he was only good for one season, maximum two and was still a #2 probably #3 option at best

A40:

Lmaoo. Who was Jordan's #2 at the Wizards? Can you tell us who he was without the help of google? You are expecting magic from a player that left the game for 3 years and returned at 38

I don't know why you are in touch with your feelings now. The players he failed with at the Rockets had more combined talent than the Bulls roster

Even if we check that Blazers team he was only good for one season, maximum two and was still a #2 probably #3 option at best

man really mentioned the wizards? Like the wizards bruh.

I hate to compare but the truth is LeBron is the best player of the modern era and no one come close, not even Kobe.

Warriors might not be able to handle what's coming their way. Draymond is the only player I believe is ready for battle with the cavs.
I see argument about who's better..... Simple
You are to choose a duo between
LeBron + Kyrie and
Durant + Curry........who you going for?

Cavs got this.

Decale:


I hope you're making case against both Cavs and Warriors cos both have multiple 20ppg players

Love was on 21ppg until injury did him in and his minutes got slashed.

Part of it but not my main point.

look up the side kick or the (Pippens) of Ewing's,draxler,barkley and see what their PPG's.
That tell us how good PIppen was.

Basketball Don too change.

A40:

Lmaoo. Who was Jordan's #2 at the Wizards? Can you tell us who he was without the help of google? You are expecting magic from a player that left the game for 3 years and returned at 38

I don't know why you are in touch with your feelings now. The players he failed with at the Rockets had more combined talent than the Bulls roster

Even if we check that Blazers team he was only good for one season, maximum two and was still a #2 probably #3 option at best

Why did you "forget" his best year with the blazer and only remember the bad one with Houston?

But that no be the point shay two of them win anything when them part ways na the issue here ? Yes or no.
Jordan na the goat so I no understand why I gats check my expectation.
If he reach one playoff you no go bring this age issue,infact na the opposite you go do. .