Let me be very clear. I have no interest in launching attacks against any particular church or any particular man of God however I have no doubt that some zealots may consider this post as such,  Be that as it may, what I am seeking to understand is the system that Rhapsody of Realities (ROR) operates in and I am willing to stand corrected if the information I have been given is wrong.

Now here is my perception of what happens in the ROR world from my conversations with some committed Christ Embassy members:

(1) RORs are written by Psts Chris and Anita monthly
(2) RORs are published/printed
(3) Each ROR is paid for in cash by church members
(4) The church members who bought them distribute them for free.

Now what is wrong with this picture? Well lets break it down further:

Each month, the actual printing of the RORs are paid for by the church. The church gets its money from its members in the form of offers, tithes etc. So in other words, the church members collectively pay for printing this material.
The newly printed RORs are now sold back to the same members for more of their cash. The justification for this is that printing isn't free. But its been paid for already by the church using money given to it by the members. So in other words, the church members are paying for the RORs TWICE - before giving it out for free.

But that's not all,

One of the church members I spoke to insisted that Pastor Chris himself owns the publishing company that the church pays to publish and print the ROR. If this is true (and I hope it's not) then it means that he will be making a personal profit on each copy of ROR sold. Also, Psts Chris and Anita are the sole authors so they will by law personally own all royalties and other authoring rights of the ROR into perpetuity.

So if we put this all together what we get is Psts Chris and Anita authoring and publishing material which they (strongly) encourage their church members to pay for TWICE (once indirectly in tithes, offerings etc and once directly to the publishers - Psts Chris & Anita themselves) before any one sees it for free.

Now to me, if it looks like a scam and it smells like a scam, then what is it. . . ?

It is not a scam, why? it is open and true.

Gosh!!! Is it a sin to be business minded and enterprising in the house of God. Do u want the church to go bankrupt. They need to get funding from somewhere geez!!

jacobscros:

Gosh!!! Is it a sin to  be business minded and enterprising in the house of God. Do u want the church to go bankrupt. They need to get funding from somewhere geez!!

I understand business minded. Business minded is creating a product and selling it for a profit. Creating a product and then getting your spiritual followers to pay for it TWICE over is not business minded, it's 419!

Besides, when did a House of God turn into a House of Business? No one can serve two masters.

It most definitely is a scam. In addition to what you have written above, the contents of the ROR are poisnous and designed to pollute/distort biblical truths.

Grey Beard:

So if we put this all together what we get is Psts Chris and Anita authoring and publishing material which they (strongly) encourage their church members to pay for TWICE (once indirectly in tithes, offerings etc and once directly to the publishers - Psts Chris & Anita themselves) before any one sees it for free.

Now to me, if it looks like a scam and it smells like a scam, then what is it. . . ?

It depends. You did not tell us the ultimate beneficiary of the sales proceed. i.e. If the sales money goes back to the church. It's possible the church policy is not to use regular collections (tithe & offerings) for such publications, so whatever is made from the sales goes to replace (or seen as a refund) the church fund used for printing. It's also possible that church expenses exceed takings in tithes & offerings (the case fore a good umber of churches).

@Zikkyy
The beneficiaries from the proceeds of sales of ROR are ultimately Psts Chris and Anita because they author it AND publish it - which means they will set the price.

It's possible the church policy is not to use regular collections (tithe & offerings) for such publications, so whatever is made from the sales goes to replace (or seen as a refund) the church fund used for printing

Good point! So why make the church members pay for it again when it was their money that was used to publish it in the first place? If it is their policy to re-coup the money spent then they should just sell it. If they must give it free then give it free. But when church members pay for it again that means the church have re-couped their money AND Psts Chris and Anita have also made a profit on the sales.

It's also possible that church expenses exceed takings in tithes & offerings (the case fore a good umber of churches). 

I wouldn't believe that the cost of publishing ROR exceeds the total takings in tithes and offerings of an organisation the size of Believers Loveworld (aka Christ Embassy). However, if it did then they would just print less copies.

This is why i feel that literature is a scam. They always rewrite old versions and put it in the latest versions. check back as far as 2004, you will read some parts of it in 2012. Abeg jor, rewash mechanism.

A sucker is born every second.
Has any anyone ever heard of the word "Simony"?

Here is a definition from Britanica.com
simony, buying or selling of something spiritual or closely connected with the spiritual. More widely, it is any contract of this kind forbidden by divine or ecclesiastical law. The name is taken from Simon Magus (Acts 8:18), who endeavoured to buy from the Apostles the power of conferring the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Simony, in the form of buying holy orders, or church offices, was virtually unknown in the first three centuries of the Christian church, but it became familiar when the church had positions of wealth and influence to bestow. The first legislation on the point was the second canon of the Council of Chalcedon (451). From that time prohibitions and penalties were reiterated against buying or selling promotions to the episcopate, priesthood, and diaconate. Later, the offense of simony was extended to include all traffic in benefices and all pecuniary transactions on masses (apart from the authorized offering), blessed oils, and other consecrated objects.

All of you posting rumours and rubbish wt no facts about the church and men of God had better STOP IT NOW!, you are heaping curses upon yourselves. Be wise!

FXKing2012:

All of you posting rumours and rubbish wt no facts about the church and men of God had better STOP IT NOW!, you are heaping curses upon yourselves. Be wise!

Are you not tired of saying thesame thing? These men of god you always talk about are con men and have no single power to inflict curse on anyone!

2good:

Are you not tired of saying thesame thing? These men of god you always talk about are con men and have no single power to inflict curse on anyone!

I'm not tired cos we are not to be tired while trying to save souls. And it amazes me how you are so sure they are con men, you seem to know everything.

FXKing2012:

And it amazes me how you are so sure they are con men, you seem to know everything.

Cos I am smarter than you on such matters, I use my brain properly to think

2good:

Cos I am smarter than you on such matters, I use my brain properly to think

The fact that claim to be very sure MOG are con men even without any evidence goes to show how smart u truly are.

FXKing2012:

The fact that claim to be very sure MOG are con men even without any evidence goes to show how smart u truly are.

They are con men because they sell lies and deceit to you, which your gullibility makes you to buy, while they extort and milk you dry of your money, living a life of affluence while you live a struggling life, waiting on the day all their prayers will come to pass in your life.

2good:

They are con men because they sell lies and deceit to you, which your gullibility makes you to buy, while they extort and milk you dry of your money, living a life of affluence while you live a struggling life, waiting on the day all their prayers will come to pass in your life.

Again, how do u know the things they say are lies. Have u heard any one of them say something that is not in the Bible? If you do pls I wld love to know.

FXKing2012:

The fact that claim to be very sure MOG are con men even without any  evidence goes to show how smart u truly are.

Nice one there. .  

Satan never agrees there are true ministers , even Jesus was false in his generation.

John 7:12
12 And there was much murmuring among the people concerning him: for some said, He is a good man: others said, Nay; but he deceiveth the people.

Gentlemen, Lets keep it straight shall we.

FXKing2012:

All of you posting rumours and rubbish wt no facts [/b]about the church and men of God had better STOP IT NOW!, you are heaping curses upon yourselves. Be wise!

I presented [b]facts as I saw them in my original post. Perhaps you should read it again. If this business about how ROR works is wrong then please enlighten us as to how it actually is.

@Joagbaje, I heard you are a strong Believer in Loveworld. Can you tell us whether the facts I have been given regarding ROR are true or false?

Jesus said if you are a true follower of Him then u must suffer the things he suffered cos no servant is greater than his master. Jesus was called all sorts of names by the people of that time. They even accused Him of using the power of Baal to perform miracles.
Any pastor who is not being persecuted by being called names is not a true pastor.

Grey Beard:

. Can you tell us whether the facts I have been given regarding ROR are true or false?

The so called fact is false . And I'm disappointed at you. If you claim to be a christian and a finance minister or so. You can speak so carnally about offerings made to God in such irreverent manner.

The publishing ministry has nothing to do with tithes and offerings. It's independent . Every aspect of the ministry is independent. Prison ministry,children , motherless, tv, Internet, satellite  and on and on.

Joagbaje:

The so called fact is false . And I'm disappointed at you. If you claim to be a christian and a finance minister or so. You can speak so carnally about offerings made to God in such irreverent manner.

The publishing ministry has nothing to do with tithes and offerings. It's independent . Every aspect of the ministry is independent. Prison ministry,children , motherless, tv, Internet, satellite  and on and on.

I'm happy to disappoint you because to be honest Joagbaje I value the banana in my fruit salad more than I value your opinion of my good self. And I don't know where or when I claimed to be a Finance Minister  but if that is one of your predictions for the future of Grey Beard and it comes true then perhaps I'll start to value what you say a little more than the fruit in my salad. But only a little more 

Anyway, lets not digress. You say the facts are false? OK. Which part?

How does the publishing ministry get the funds to initially print ROR?
Do the members have to pay for RORs before it is distrubuted for free?
Is the printing press owned by an outside business, the publishing ministry or Pst Chris himself?

Grey Beard:

 And I don't know where or when I claimed to be a Finance Minister   .

  I thought  I read you say you are a christian finance teacher or so

How does the publishing ministry get the funds to initially print ROR?

It's not anybody's business , publishing ministry has been triving for decade before rhapsody was born. Either it's from profit or bank loan ,it's not anybodys buinessness .

Do the members have to pay for RORs before it is distrubuted for free?

People either pay or the copies they buy or the copies the give out.

Is the printing press owned by an outside business, the publishing ministry or Pst Chris himself?

Publishing arm had been on for decade before printing press was built.

@Joagbaje
You are sounding more defensive than usual there my friend. Did I hit on a raw nerve? I hope so   

OK, firstly with the Finance Minister thing I think u probably got me mixed up with someone else. So no harm - no foul.

I asked you how is the printing of millions of RORs per month funded and you said:

Joagbaje:


It's not anybody's business , publishing ministry has been triving for decade before rhapsody was born. Either it's from profit or bank loan ,it's not anybodys buinessness .

I take that to mean that you don't know. So again I put it to you that the cash is money the church has coming in from its members as tithes, offerings, first fruits, seeds etc.
BUT even if they are using the profits from the publishing of other ministry material, isn't it the same members who buy these books that are supplying the profit? So undoubtably the money comes in one way or another from the members.

My second question was whether or not members pay for the RORs they give out for free. Your answer was:

People either pay or the copies they buy or the copies the give out.

So that means YES they do. Good.

And my final question was who owns the printing press. And you answered:

Publishing arm had been on for decade before printing press was built.

Hmmm, has anyone ever told u that you would make a good politician? Because you know who to give crooked answers to direct questions. Please if you honestly don't know just say you don't know because my source claimed to know his facts on very good authority. So let me ask you again in a different way -

The printing press used to publish RORs is owned by whom (please choose only one answer):
a. An outside business
b. The church itself
c. Pst Chris himself (as my source claims)
d. An outside business owned by Pst Chris (just to avoid any ambiguity)

My point is. It's irrelevant . Printing press is a business , either owned by pastor chris or church. If church runs a pure water business , shoukd it be sold free? What is the sense there? You give impression there is fraud going on and that's the error I'm pointing out to you.

If a church runs a restaurant and provide service , should it be free? Does it make it fraud. Catholic church has hospital , people pay. Assemblies of God was the first in Nigeria to own printing press, people pay, Jehovah witness had big printing press ,people pay, why is it CEC publication you call fraud?

Joagbaje:

I thought  I read you say you are a christian finance teacher or so
It's not anybody's business , publishing ministry has been triving for decade before rhapsody was born. Either it's from profit or bank loan ,it's not anybodys buinessness .
People either pay or the copies they buy or the copies the give out.[/b]Publishing arm had been on for decade before printing press was built.

You're one of pastor oyaks b#tches. First he takes your money in the form of tithes and offerings, publishes jargon with the money, [b]then sells it back to you. Hilarious.

HOLY SH#T!

Pastor Jo, it is relevant because if the author of this FREE material that is supposed to be for winning new souls and encouraging christian life is also running the printing AND selling of it as a BUSINESS then there is something very, very wrong there.
Church is not a business. The church does not exist to profit from its members and neither should its Pastors.
I'm sure you remember what Jesus did to the business men he found operating in the temple, profiting from the congregation.

My point is since CE publish ROR with monies obtained from their members collectively, they should at that point distribute it for free. Asking the same members to pay for it again so that it can recoup the expenses paid to the printer who also happens to be the author who also happens to be the head of the same church and who is undoubtably making a profit himself - is really just a plain old scam and nothing to do with Christian values.

Grey Beard:

Pastor Jo, it is relevant because if the author of this FREE material that is supposed to be for winning new souls and encouraging christian life is also running the printing AND selling of it as a BUSINESS then there is something very, very wrong there.

Do you get your bibles free. Even the Gideon free bibles have to be paid for to make it free. Nobody publish free. Ink is not free .Somebody must pay somewhere. Hope you get my point.

Besides rhapsody is not free . We pay for some copies to make it free. There are several devotional in the world. Our daily bread used to be my favorite . I paid to buy them. Why should CEC matter be exceptional. Is it because it's oyakhilome?

Church is not a business. The church does not exist to profit from its members and neither should its Pastors.

We are not talking about church,we are talking about publication . Do you get your bibles free? Do you buy christian books? Do you visit christian bookshops? If you do ,that's hypocrisy .don't you think so? Rules change when it's CEC

I'm sure you remember what Jesus did to the business men he found operating in the temple, profiting from the congregation.

The temple was meant for prayer. We are not talking about church building here but book sales. Rhapsody is a universal book. Not only a CEC material .

Joagbaje:

Do you get your bibles free. Even the Gideon free bibles have to be paid for to make it free. Nobody publish free. Ink is not free .Somebody must pay somewhere. Hope you get my point.

Besides rhapsody is not free . We pay for some copies to make it free. There are several devotional in the world. Our daily bread used to be my favorite . I paid to buy them. Why should CEC matter be exceptional. Is it because it's oyakhilome?

We are not talking about church,we are talking about publication . Do you get your bibles free? Do you buy christian books? Do you visit christian bookshops? If you do ,that's hypocrisy .don't you think so? Rules change when it's CEC 

The temple was meant for prayer.  We are not talking about church building here but book sales. Rhapsody is a universal book. Not only a CEC material .

No printing isnt free and costs more when the owner Pst Chris uses it as a personal business. You mentioned Daily Bread, well they go strictly by donations. You can choose to donate or not but you'll still get it for free. This isn't a personal attack on CEC or Pst Chris - this is just an account of what the ROR  is all about. The point is that is has already been paid for once by the members and they are charged yet again. People are paying twice for something that CEC calls free.

Although I think the ROR contents are just about ok, Martian put it best

Martian:

First he takes your money in the form of tithes and offerings, publishes jargon with the money, then sells it back to you. Hilarious.

Joagbaje:

If church runs a pure water business , shoukd it be sold free? What is the sense there?

And what's wrong with the church providing clean drinking water to poorer people who cannot afford it? To those who constantly get sick and sometimes die of diseases caused by drinking unclean water? What's wrong with that?

If a church runs a restaurant and provide service , should it be free?

And why not? What is wrong with feeding the poor and the hungry? Did Jesus charge when he fed the 5000?

Catholic church has hospital , people pay.

And why can't CEC show some true Christian values and provide free healthcare to those who can't afford it? Go and see what Faith Alive is doing in Nigeria (http://www.faithalivenigeria.org/) and you'll see true Christian values at work.

The trouble with Pastors like you is that you see everything the church does as a business.

The trouble with Pastors like you is that you see everything the church does as a business

CEC does many charity work and I personally do many charity work. Rather the trouble  we have is that critics like you don't do anything neither help anybody but rather busy criticizing those who are at least doing something.

[flash=400,300]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgtIwGs0D0U&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/flash]

I've been watching this thread in silent amusement. The scam is well known; started by American fraudsters calling themselves "pastors" and was (maybe still is) even being practiced by a well known Nigerian ministry m-industry here in the UK.

Another aspect of it that has not been highlighted: once (or even before) the book/material is produced, the entire production is first sold by the author/"pastor" in his own name to the church in its own name; so the "pastor" gets paid upfront ----- whether or not a single copy is sold subsequently.

Thanks Gray Beard. I think some one has to remind Joagbaje that churches are not businesses. They ve been so taken in by 'new revelations' that they ve ceased to be compassionate to the poor and deify their pastors. If he doesn't know , abroad, churches run soup kitchen where the poor are fed for free of charge. There are so many foundations that provide free books and other resources free of charge to students and people who need them. The problem with Iberian Christianity is that the spirit of materialism has taken over. If this was othe Christianity introduced by theciatholics, I dare say that our for ethers would phase rejected them!