Mohammed's followers are filled with complete resolve regarding who was not crucified:

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

Even the internal evidence in the verse suggests a contradiction. Jews are the ones that are supposedly quoted as boasting "We killed Christ Jesus, ". Since Muslims understand that the term "Christ" means "Messiah", then the question begs, why would the Jews be quoted as recognizing Jesus as their Messiah, but then kill Him? But that's a separate discussion.

What we discover from that verse is that, unlike any other religion, Mohammed taught his followers specifically what to disbelieve, as part of the very core of his 7th century religion, while leaving an absolute vacuum as to just what Muslims are to believe. .When we ask them who was crucified, it seems we are offered as many different answers, as Muslims that we ask Thus Islam emerges as the only, anti-another-religion, religion, by design. In other words Islam is to Christianity as the negative is to a photograph.

There is perhaps no sect of Judaism that does not believe that Jesus was killed. Of course there has not been a single Christian over the last nearly two thousand years that has disbelieved that Jesus sacrificed Himself on the cross, to save us from dying in sin, because that is what the new covenant (or testament) is about. Jesus fulfilled the old covenant.

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

John 3:16 [/b]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[b]In the Old Testament book of Psalms we find Jesus' crucifixion prophesied:

Old Testament
Psalms 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I may tell all my bones: they look [and] stare upon me. 18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

New Testament fulfillment
Matthew 27:35 [/b]And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.

[b]We find another reference in Old Testament prophecy of Jesus' second coming:

Old Testament
Zechariah 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David [shall be] as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. 9 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

New Testament
John 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

Old Testament
Isaiah 53:5 But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither [was any] deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

New Testament
[b]1Peter 2:21 [/b]For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed [himself] to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

If someone didn't believe Jesus was crucified it would be impossible for them to be a Christian. So Christians and Jews are in complete resolve, and without doubt, regarding who was crucified. Yet when we ask Muslims we find, for example:

"I believe that a true disciple of Jesus took up the cross and died for him knowing that Jesus would raise him again from the dead. I also believe that the true disciple was not one of the twelve, was not even a Jew but was in fact a Gentile."

"If I recall correctly, Narrations state that There was a guy who used to oppress jesus PBUH So Allah turned the guy into His Likeness (When Exactly I don't remember Maybe during the time of carrying the cross maybe Before his Capture, ) and the Guy was Executed instead of Jesus PBUH so it was made to appear that Jesus PBUH was, but he wasn't."

"The Disciple (JUDAS) Who betrayed him was hanged, (God changed him to the shape of Jesus), And before they take him to Court, He keep saying I am not Jesus, [but] The soldiers Beat him so much until he Confess to be Jesus, same as the American Soldiers do in Iraq war."

So Judas was hanged, apparently before he went to court looking like Jesus, or something like that. If you Yahoo - judas was crucified - you will find no shortage of Muslims that believe it indeed was Judas that was crucified. However the New Testament informs us that Judas hanged himself, some time before the crucifixion, as the confused description above seems to acknowledge.

By many accounts Allah put Jesus face on someone else. For example one report says that they came to Jesus' house to get Him, but he had already been lifted to Allah, and when the guy that went in to look for Him came back out, [b]Allah had changed his face to look like Jesus, so they crucified him. [/b]After taking this look-alike down from the cross they decided that his face matched Jesus' face but that his body wasn't a match.

The obvious difficulty with all of these views is that they are pure speculation because Mohammed left his followers empty handed and resolved only in disbelief. In other words, while Jews and Christians are in complete resolve as to who was crucified, Muslims emerge exactly as Mohammed mischaracterized Jews and Christians as ",  those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow , "


When asked where Jesus is now, we find a little more agreement, but still many versions.

"Isa :alayhis: is not in a spiritual state, but in a physical state. He was physically lifted up. He will return, live his life out, and die a natural death."

"The Qur'an reveals, among many other glad tidings, that Jesus (pbuh), one of God's messengers, is not dead and was not put to death.
[b]Qur'an 3:55 and Qur'an 4:157-58 [/b]head the list of those verses that relate how Jesus (pbuh) was not killed but was raised alive to God's presence. Jesus (pbuh), who now lives in God's presence, will return to Earth during the End Times."

Isn't that interesting? Muslims believe that Jesus was taken up bodily to their Allah just before the crucifixion, will spend at least a couple of thousand years with Allah, and then come back to earth for the end times, only to die a physical natural death!

Indeed it would seem Mohammed's religion requires that Jesus to come back and die. Through one of his many instructors Mohammed lifted a concept from an Egyptian apocryphal fable titled "The First Gospel of The Infancy of Jesus Christ". The fable claims that Jesus spoke as an infant, while still in the cradle, and said:

"Mary, I am Jesus the Son of God, that word which thou didst bring forth according to the declaration of the angel Gabriel to thee, "

With Mohammed's spin the infant Jesus was supposed to have said:

Surah 19:30 He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet; 31 "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live; 32 "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;  33 "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!

So we can see Muslims are stuck with it. Jesus has to die someday, even though their most widely held view is that He was raised physically to Allah, and hasn't died yet.

Sura 4.57 ., but they killed him not, nor crucified him,  158 Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-

There can be no doubt as to who inspired a religion that, at it's core, resolves it's adherents as to what to disbelieve. A religion that requires it's followers to reject the 1600 year record of God to mankind, as revealed through all of the prophets and witnesses of that record, that God's people have followed through two covenants, over 3500 years. Rejecting God's Word to follow the 23 year, 7th century record, of a single, murderous, sex slave capturing, stepson's wife taking, child doing, thief, as revealed through Islam's own books. A "prophet" - without fulfilled prophecy, that never performed a single miracle, whom not a single witness ever heard "Allah" or Gabriel's voice speak to. Indeed a "religion", whose single most important fundamental, is antichrist:

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

To our Muslim could-become brethren:

1John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship [is] with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

http://brotherpete.com/id33.htm

[img]http://1.bp..com/_FrfR-Qg3F2U/TJtti7FcYjI/AAAAAAAAABU/0f4_L5ItUNE/s1600/Copy-And-Paste-Will-Kill-You-350x188-Pixels.gif[/img]

@Frosbel: I will have time to read your NT and OT opinion of the unseen, unknown later which you wrote above.
[Quote]Even the internal evidence in the verse suggests a contradiction. Jews are the ones that are supposedly quoted as boasting "We killed Christ Jesus, ". Since Muslims understand that the term "Christ" means "Messiah", then the question begs, why would the Jews be quoted as recognizing Jesus as their Messiah, but then kill Him? But that's a separate discussion.[/Quote]Even your Bible agrees with the Quran, since the jews mocked Jesus. In mockery, the jews called him Messiah. In the Bible, even in mockery they waged fingers at him, treating in similar fashion the bible reported satan to treat him. The jews even said that he called Elias when you people reported that he said My Ellah, my Ellah, . . .!
The QUran says the jews did not believe in Jesus even as a prophet, so it would not be difficult for a thinking person to know that when the Quran says they say in boast [making jest of Jesus condition/demise] that they killed Christ Jesus son of Mary. For illustration, if i call you son of Jehovah now, it will be in jest [i will be boasting in my statement to mean that you are a liar believing that your father is God], since i dont accept that God has any child and i know for a fact that your Father is a man born and raised in Nigeria. This is what Quran is saying that the Jews said when they called Jesus Messiah.


[Quote]What we discover from that verse is that, unlike any other religion, Mohammed taught his followers specifically what to disbelieve, as part of the very core of his 7th century religion,[/Quote]Versus 1st century religion!


[Quote] while leaving an absolute vacuum as to just what Muslims are to believe. .[/Quote]Look. Above is what we believe.


[Quote]When we ask them who was crucified, it seems we are offered as many different answers, as Muslims that we ask Thus Islam emerges as the only, anti-another-religion, religion, by design.[/Quote]How is Christianity versus Judaism since you use the same book? Note the jews will never read NT except to mock you. You read their OT and discovered 3 gods while they say God is 1 and not 3 persons. Go figure.


[Quote] In other words Islam is to Christianity as the negative is to a photograph.[/Quote]And what is hindu is to christianity, since I used judaism above, i want you to think about something new; yu are not using the same books as the hindus, the same way the muslims don't use any of your books.


[Quote]There is perhaps no sect of Judaism that does not believe that Jesus was killed.[/Quote]Was this not their hope? The reality is with God and He says Jesus was not killed, even as the jews wished, and you accepting. Neither of you have the proof, except that you are just guessing.


[Quote] Of course there has not been a single Christian over the last nearly two thousand years that has disbelieved that Jesus sacrificed Himself on the cross, to save us from dying in sin,[/Quote]Show me where Jesus said this was his mission, from God WHo could easily forgive sins of man and He did forgive sins of man before Jesus and your claimed death on him? Did you forget the groups and individual christians who did not agree to the idea of the death of Jesus? Lets ask Jesus if he died; Once dead, no death again and we wonder why he never showed himself to those who boasted that they have killed him? Did he want them to believe he was dead when he was not? He said to his people that spirit [meaning dead people] do not have flesh and bones. Deal with the others who believed that Jesus was not dead.


[Quote] because that is what the new covenant (or testament) is about. Jesus fulfilled the old covenant.[/Quote]This is the work of Saul Paul. Carry on. Show me where Jesus mentioned any covenant. I bet Saul Paul is your another comforter. At least he spoke, he wrote and you have him in your heart.

^^^^


Hey Brother, thanks for your contribution

^^^ Hey frosbel; Hopefully you will learn somethings new. {I doubt it. His heart is already rotten to the core}

@Frosbel; [Quote]Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.[/Quote]New testament here, some say new covenant in other places. Tell me what is the essence of the new testament, when Jesus himself was dragged to the gallows, if ever and even the elects among the christians, the miracle workers will be rejected by Jesus as in "i do not know ye" and not to forget his seeing all the past saints in hell when he was there wrestling, trying to kill death that is still killing christians, even now? Frosbel, I am trying not to upset you because you know the blood is powerless if the one whose veins it flowed was powerless. remission of sin, especially when the miracle workers of christianity will be rejected.


[Quote]John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.[/Quote]Did Jesus say this or was said for Jesus or about Jesus by those with wishful thinking and can't prove that Mary is spouse of Jehovah?

[Quote]In the Old Testament book of Psalms we find Jesus' crucifixion prophesied:

Old Testament
Psalms 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I may tell all my bones: they look [and] stare upon me. 18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

New Testament fulfillment
Matthew 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.[/Quote]Is the old testament of Christian bibles talking about Jesus here? hardly by the parting of garments. How many garments had Jesus except what was on his back?

[QUote]We find another reference in Old Testament prophecy of Jesus' second coming:

Old Testament
Zechariah 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David [shall be] as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. 9 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

New Testament
John 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.[/QUote]Is Jesus back yet? Its been over 2,000 years now. The people who were to see him return to them have been dead for almost 2000 years now. i almost believe that if he arrives now, some in ekiti greeting fashion will say "o yaa oo" [you arrive soon enough]. Imagine that? Then contrast it to Muhammad [as] preaching his ministry 710 years later, a whopping 1302 years [and still counting] earlier than Jesus ever to have a second coming. Talk about just in time for the another comforter.