lawani:


What do you mean by Borgu Nupe people. Borgu is different from Nupe. Borgu is called Bariba by the Yoruba while Nupe is called Tapa

Olu317:
lawani, I expect you to check who are Borgu ? Bro ,you can do better than this. Go to Northern Nigeria's history and verify properly. The same way Yoruba changed name at different times, is the same way, Borgu broke into pieces and migration took place to some areas. Go visit Niger state and Kwara state respectively. In these two States ,your questions is resolved.

lawani:


The Nupe King is called Elenpe by the Yoruba. I guess it means Olu Enpe. Eastern Borgu is in Nigeria while western Borgu is Benin republic

Olu317:
I beg you pardon! You are wrong. Did you you care to read the reason I responded to the difference between Onu and Ooni ?
Apart from that, your opinion gotten/got from Samuel Ajayi's Crowther book is a bloody lie. Ooni means ‘owner'. I cant imagine you too can fall for such nonexisting theory created by Samuel Ajayi crowther as a contraction for Ooni? What's Omo Oluwo ni? Kì O nì ? Tà nì Olùwo nà?

Obalufon:
Ooni =Onu...house Ile=Ule.. U-I difference

Olu317:
lawani, I expect you to check who are Borgu ? Bro ,you can do better than this. Go to Northern Nigeria's history and verify properly. The same way Yoruba changed name at different times, is the same way, Borgu broke into pieces and migration took place to some areas. Go visit Niger state and Kwara state respectively. In these two States ,your questions is resolved.

Olu317:
I guess I need explain better. I did not say Onu = Ooni but showed the difference. May be, I don't understand you

Olu317:
some of the people you mentioned were descendants of famliy that their ancestor were conscripted servants-messenger of Óoní.

N.B:
Yoruba don't disrespect people even if they are low in real status because slave can be become a ‘son' via intermarriage and great exploit.

0balufonlll:


Not everyone was a servant-messenger. Some were colleagues of the Ooni, traders, explorers & warriors, baba.

0balufonlll:


Loool why waste your time arguing that nonsensical conjecture bro?

I am guessing O ONi is an abbreviation of Omo Olowo Ni. Abi wetin you think?

Obalufon:
who are the Efa?

0balufonlll:


What?

If it is the ‘Efa’ in the Efa & Oje proverb then this your post is wrong o.

Efa & Oje were part of Egba Agura in the present day Ibadan. They were razed by the combined forces of Ife, Ijebu & Oyo. See IB Akinyele’s ‘Iwe Itan Ibadan’ book.

Efa had nothing to do with Offa & neither Efa nor Offa had anything to do with Edo.

Obalufon:



Good offa and oje .. Offa is far ooo..OJe is farther

0balufonlll:


What?

If it is the ‘Efa’ in the Efa & Oje proverb then this your post is wrong o.

Efa & Oje were part of Egba Agura in the present day Ibadan. They were razed by the combined forces of Ife, Ijebu & Oyo. See IB Akinyele’s ‘Iwe Itan Ibadan’ book.

Efa had nothing to do with Offa & neither Efa nor Offa had anything to do with Edo.

0balufonlll:


1. Not true. Yoruba used & still use agbo ile to separate citizens from migrants. You could not just move into a community, occupy a land & build. The owner of that land or the king has to sanction the record of that settlement history is ‘filed’ in oriki or song or event narrative which are employed till today when people get out of hands with demands or relations generally.

2. Not true. Afonja’s army were mostly Yoruba, greedy ones & those who had scores to settle with other people in Oyo especially. The Hausa & Fulani mercenaries mostly ran to Alimi. After Oyo’s collapse they parted ways with Afonja & stuck with Alimi/Abdusalam.

0balufonlll:


You seem to have a proclivity for bothering yourself with drawing up connections especially where there is none. No offense intended, just stating an observation.

Now, while the post above is your opinion, you will permit me to disagree & also say that it is wrong in all corners.

Ibadan is an usurped city. All Egba towns that traversed present day Ibadan/Ijaye were as old as Oyo, Ketu & the formative period of early Yoruba states. Efa & Oje fall within this category & this makes them tens of centuries old. You must not know Egba owned all of the present day Ibadan & old Ijaiye.

At the time of Orangun’s wanderings, Offa had not be founded. Orangun was Olofin’s first son. While Orangun’s wanderings were on, Oranmiyan was still caught up with Oko & Bini. Offa was founded by an Oyo prince in the 14th/15th century long after Ila had been founded & well established.

Efa predates Offa & Efa in Bini. Why the need to connect dots, brother? There’s Efa in Cross River, Akwa Ibom, Ile-Ife & several other places across Naija. Do they all connect Efa & Oje as well? Fam, go read IB Akinyele’s book for Efa & Oje history, please.

0balufonlll:


Quite a number of people on this forum can say the same about their backgrounds.




At least we have both said the same things except that you broadened it.



The emboldened is Lagos, a center where intergroup mixture is high, a testing ground for the one Nigeria project. The hybrid 'indigenes' are expected to crop up into the political space but then that 'space' is limited, there are areas within the same Lagos their ambition won't fly.

Anywho, like I previously stated, the history and indigene-ship status of these people in the core Yoruba towns will and can be revisited any day they stretch their hands towards what isn't within their purview. This is my argument.

0balufonlll:


Baba, I respect your opinion but mineis that having the same names (in spelling but with likely different pronounciations/meanings) does not mean a connection between Efa of Edo & Efa in Ibadan. The connection between cultures in all of Nigeria is not my field, I have no authority to speak on it.




I pegged 14/15th century to Offa’s foundation. I said Oyo was much earlier than Offa. I never stated a period for Oyo. How you have picked a date I pegged & how it is wrong confuses me. . I don’t know if Oranmiyan firmed up a pre-existing Oyo but my people back home would say Oloyo, Oranmiyan & Owa Ilesa were siblings of the same mother. I haven’t investigated that perspective od Oyo early history, so I have no pedigree to speak on it.



If you have read Akinyele’s work you’d know Efa/Oje were within the purview of his work. I seem to accept what authors write? There’s a thing called ‘Historiography’. And Akinyele, from colonial reports & even Morgan’s revisions, was said to be deeply rooted in Ibadan history - the man’s work is an authority in Ibadan history. Professors of Yoruba history agree on that fact & that is that. Also, facts are not emerging in cultural history & that is why it is a dead aspect of history. The sub-field relies heavily on archeology for its ‘facts’. If you were a trained historian you would know this & not say ‘facts are emerging’. Brother, no fact is emerging. That is that. Ibadan a baby land? You do not seem to be aware of the Lagelu/Sango period of Ibadan history. Idoko & other migrant based communities are exceptions not the rule. You are oblivious to Egba history such that you do not know Efa & Oje were Egba towns. Egba Ake, Egba Agura etc were/are conglomerates of several independent towns. It is like the Awori, a single body but with numerous units under one large umbrella.

0balufonlll:


Bro, you killed me with the emboldened. Akinyele’s data was collectted for him? You certainly do not know the man or about his work.

Like I said in another post, these Yoruba methods of preserving history help Yoruba know who is a citizen & who migrated from somewhere. See Prof Olukoya Ogen’s paper on the connection Usen & Idepe (Okitipupa) for instance. Everybody knows who is autochthonous & who came from somewhere; everybody knows whose fathers did exploits and who he did it with. And so on & so forth.

Egba was not an offshoot of Owu & neither was it vice versa. Wan da duro gbedegbe ni. While Egba was in central Yorubaland, Owu was a powerful state up north with Oyo as its tributary state for a while. Owu had internal problems that led to an implosion and they migrated to central Yorubaland. Prior to this period, after Owu had tucked Oyo under it and a good number of other towns, it conquered Iraye and this led to the dispersal of Iraye citizens back to Ile-Ife then some went to Aye town in Eiigbo LG, Osun; Efon Alaaye in Ekiti, Ife Ijunmu, Igbede & Ipoti Ekiti to mention a few. This dispersal of Iraye was right before Owu-Ife/Ijebu war. Egba exisyed on its own without connections with Owu. Rather, Egba& Ketu are related, they are offshoots of each other & had traditional relations they play in each other’s cultural activities such as coronation.

Finally sir, a good number of towns were already towns before princes settled. And also, not all who supposedly left ‘Ife’ or usurped occupied spaced were princes.

Let me share my thought I have always had about this ‘Obokun’ etymology/story. The period of Oduduwa’s purported blindness & Owa’s brine fetch were old times. Did Ife have a prior knowledge of the existence of the Atlantic at that time? I would like to think yes, going by Horton’s work where he employed several evidences to showcase Ife was at the center of trade where items from the Sahara/North Africa through Hausalands/Bariba were exchanged with items from Ijebu/Bini area. So I’d like to think, through southern Yoruba folks like Ijebu, Ife had a knowledge of the sea at this point. My confusion however is that, we have an Olokun grove and Olokun sacred well in Ife. The letter is purported to have been the spot from where the seas first cropped up. Now, if we have always had Okun (sea) pool from where Atlantic sprang from, couldn’t Owa Ijesa have gone to this spot to fetch water as opposed to going all the way to Lagos/Ijebu? I mean Ilesa is directly on the route where this Olokun pool lies. Couldn’t his journey to the local sea grove in Ife have informed the direction of his journey and eventual settlement not that has the Olokun laying right inbetween Ilesa & Ife? There is a trend in the migration pattern of Oduduwa’s sons. They settled or founded towns along the line of where they’ve explored not head to a strange land. E.g Oranmiyan already explored & founded Oko before Bini & Oyo giving him an idea towards Northern Yorubaland. After his time in Bini, he headed the same direction he had been before to found or settle in Oyo. Look at Obaloran, Oduduwa’s son, he had been at Iloran and chose to settle right there next to his mother. I do not know if you get my point sir? Why & how possible is it to go to Lagos to fetch sea water when sea water was right in a spot in Ife?

Good morning.

Olu317:
Oh no! You didn't read the post very well. I said,‘The point here is that Akinyele, yes rooted in Ibadan history, got information from researches conducted by him'. Oh yes, Ketu and not Owu,it was typo error.
The Yoruba as having knowledge as it regard (Olokun) Atlantic predated Nigeria.

Awesome piece

Cheers.

0balufonlll:


e ma binu, brother mi. I replied when I got to the office at the time. I guess my brain was muddled up while reading through your post.