@Snowwy,

Make up your mind. Are you following Abram's example of giving a tenth of spoils and keeping nothing for himself (a ONE-TIME event), OR are you saying that since Jesus did not condemn the tithe that you are to follow God's tithing commands? Jesus did not condemn MATTERS OF THE LAW. Stop taking just a part of a verse and saying Jesus didn't condemn it. You are taking parts of verses and/or just words out of context.

Unless you can define what Christian tithing is, then tithing is just a word game for you. It makes you feel good to use the term "tithe" when you give, even though you are NOT following tithing as presented in the scriptures. It makes you feel like you are being obedient to God even though you are NOT following His commands. It's all in your head. It just makes you feel good to be able to tell others that you "tithe."

Get over it.

@garyarnold, Heb 7 used 'pay' & 'gave' together.
Heb 7:9 said:

'And as I may so say, Levi also, who received tithes, paid tithes in Abraham'

Since you say Abraham gave a tenth, why is it stated Levi PAID TITHES IN Abraham?
How can someone give yet pay on behalf of another?

Verse 6 says 'But he whose descent is not counted from them received TITHES of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises' (KJV).

Does that scripture not mention Melchizedek receiving TITHES of Abraham?
So are you saying that Abraham paid Tithe or gave tithe now?

Oh I remember you said Tithe=Tax

Are you saying Melchizedek received 'tax' from Abraham?

@garyarnold, KJV of the bible is consistent.

@garyarnold, you keep making me laugh.
'Get over it'?
Why does tithing bother you so much. My ten percent start in giving to God is really bothering you yet you give 'far far more than a mere tenth'.

I have not told you whether or not to tithe, I have shown you in scriptures were tithing is valid, why do you keep telling me to 'loose the word or get over it'?

You really need to cool it.

@Snowwy,

First, you misquote me by saying I said the tithe was a tax. I said it was LIKE a tax. It was SIMILAR to a tax. I never said it WAS a tax. Quote from me: "It was like a tax that had to be paid."

Since you say Abraham gave a tenth, why is it stated Levi PAID TITHES IN Abraham?
How can someone give yet pay on behalf of another?

Easy. Levi PAID tithes in Abraham because the Levites were to be under the law. This again distinguishes between Abram's giving and the payment under the law.

Does that scripture not mention Melchizedek receiving TITHES of Abraham?
So are you saying that Abraham paid Tithe or gave tithe now?

The government receives tax dollars which are PAID. You receive a gift on your birthday. You can receive something whether it is giving or paying. Abram GAVE a tenth.

Tithers - if you can't or won't define tithing, you need to just shut up. There is absolutely no sense in using the word tithe/tithing for Christians unless you can define what it is.

@garyarnold,
i'm posting on phone hence can't go back to check whether or not I  wrongly quoted you. I apologise.
Tithe= like tax as quoted by @gary

However your dabbling into tithe being similar to tax, you did for a purpose, pls don't feign surprise.

Abraham gave a tenth and Melchizedek received a tithe? Is that the next angle you are coming from again?
LOL.

The levites, still in the womb of Abraham are the ones you are saying  were to be under the law?
Oh, ok you mean, Abraham gave a tenth (no law), while the Levites, still in his womb were under tithing in anticipation of the law?
*Scratches head*

So while Melchizedek received tithes, he was receiving it as a giving from one person and a payment from another?

You are beginning to sound frantic.

Snowwy:

@garyarnold, you keep making me laugh.
'Get over it'?
Why does tithing bother you so much. My ten percent start in giving to God is really bothering you yet you give 'far far more than a mere tenth'.

That's the thing . The tithe is the smallest of our giving. Whats the fuss about it. People dey give moto, land, house as seed. The man who give tithes gives far more than tithes. Why is it this tenth that is being fought? There' must be something spiritual about it.

If tithers will not, or cannot define what Christian tithing is, how does one know whether or not they tithe?

Church goer A goes to Church A.  Pastor A teaches tithing as a tenth of Net Income and nothing else.  Church goer A gives a tenth of his net income and claims he has tithed.  Problem here is the definition of "net income."  It can mean after ALL expenses in order to get that income which would include transportation expense, etc.  When pastors say "net income" they generally are referring to how the tax code defines net income for income tax purposes.

Church goer B goes to Church B.  Pastor B teaches tithing as a tenth of Gross Income (even though I have yet found a pastor who knows the definition of gross income).  Church goer B gives a tenth of his gross income and claims he has tithed.

Church goer C goes to Church C.  Pastor C teaches tithing on increase, but never really gives a definite definition of increase.  Church goer C looks in the dictionary for the definition of increase and requests a tithing REFUND for the year because his bank account has decreased.

There is no consistency between Christians as to a standard definition of tithing.  Some include gifts, some don't.  Some include inheritances, some don't.

The definition of increase does not include income.  The definition of income does not include gifts or inheritances.

The definition of gross income includes all fringe benefits.

In order to claim that even some Christians tithe today, there must be a standard definition as to what that means.  Otherwise, saying you tithe actually means nothing.

If I say I gave a tenth of my gross income as defined in the tax code, that should be understood by everyone.

If I say I gave a tenth of my net income, that leaves the door open for interpretation.  If I say I gave a tenth of my net income as defined by the income tax code, that should be understood by everyone.
If I say I gave a tenth of the inheritance I received, that should be understood by everyone.
If I say I tithed, who knows what I included in my definition.

Conclusion:  Tithe is a poor choice of words for Christians to use in their giving as long as a definition is not available, AND you aren't using the Biblical definition of a tithe.  God never gave a definition of tithing for Christians, nor did God ever give any church or pastor permission to receive His tithe.

You say Jesus never abolished the tithe.  Fine.  God never abolished His command to take the tithe to the Levites.

Those who claim they are tithing are sinning by not following God commands.

BERNIMOORE:

@amor4ce,

ITS OBVIOUS THAT YOU HAVE NO ANSWER,AFTER ASKING FOR YOUR REASON AND EXPECTING AN ASWER TO COUNTER MY ACCUSATION,JUST HEAR YOUSELF,
IS THIS AN ANSWER ?

PLS GO BACK TO PAGE ONE AND READ TO THE LAST PAGE,MANY LIKE YOU WHO DID NOT HAVE ANY SOLID PROOF HAVE BACKED OUT SINCE.

Why did you point accusations at me in the first place? Where in my posts on this thread did I claim to "HAVE ANY SOLID PROOF" or not of tithes, offerings and first fruits? I asked questions without making any direct assertion, neither did I directly target you with my first comment. But you chose to respond negatively. Remember that you had a choice of whether or not to respond and the whether or not to respond thus. Is it good to return good with evil? When the Apostles preached as recorded in the Bible did they tell those to whom they were preaching to "keep quiet"? I don’t know whether or not Nairaland has engaged your services as a censor,  Did God tell His people when they were misbehaving to reason with Him or did He bully them into submission? I don’t want to believe that the Messiah wants His people to attack persons who do not share their opinions. Rather, I want to believe that equips His people with the ability to reason with themselves and with others (Isaiah 1:18; John 4:1-30).

I want to believe that the ability to quote from the Scriptures does not immediately equate to comprehension (Mark 1:22). Many employers are aware of this so they get prospective employees to undergo verbal reasoning tests.

As for my response to your demand that I support with a Bible verse what you described as my claim, and your reaction to the manner (in the form of questions) of my response, I had full rights to respond the way I did. You are not my master, you do not own me, you have no power over my life, you have no authority over what I choose to do with what God has blessed me with. Remember that when the Redeemer was asked by the chief priests and the elders of the Temple for the Source of the authority by which He taught and did signs and wonders, He responded with a question first (Matthew 21:23-27). Did He commit a crime? Would you have asked the Redeemer “JUST HEAR YOUSELF”?

I’ll mention this about tithes, offerings and first fruits – I very much doubt that the Messiah who hates lawlessness (do you need a Bible quote for this also?) would have selected as His disciples lawless people who disobeyed commandments and statutes that were handed to Moses by God. The Messiah did not teach His disciples and His people to disobey the Law (Matthew 5:17-20, 23:1-3), rather He came to fulfill it.

If you like, respond. If you respond, you have a choice whether to portray yourself as ITK and condescending or not. If you like you can see this thread as an opportunity for those of us making use of this thread to encourage and build up one another. If you like you can see it as a slugfest of Ctrl C + Ctrl V quotations and/or academic display to see who will back out first. Won’t we account for our words?

Note that I am not wrong as you erroneously alleged. Rather, I am a man, one of His chosen ones.

@garyarnold,
I can see you have no further comment on Hebrews 7. I'm sure you never saw it in that light. But rather than admit it, you decide to go into rhetorics.
I understand that as a Money & Finance Minister (please is this self-appointed or ordained? Is it in the church or it is just a name you call yourself) who has quoted this same scripture to others, you cannot bear to admit the interpretation of what you are seeing.
You see you cannot fight God's word to suit your choice of words.


In all the scriptures I quoted, it is obvious I am talking about tithe based on the purpose it came about and was instituted in the law. For the support of the God's ministry and those that work full-time in it.

Abraham - to Melchizedek, Priest of the Most High God
The Israelites - to the Levites (who received the Priesthood)
Christians - to those that preach the gospel (Priesthood of Jesus Christ)

In all, these were done as an honour to God.


The first we hear is that Abraham, the father of faith, gave a tenth of all of the spoil which he won in battle. Ofcourse spoil was not limited to food.

The Israelites gave a tithe of all they produced on the land, trees as well of their flocks. Everything we see today was derived from what God gave us of the land.

In Matthew 23;23, Luke 11:42, Jesus said  the weighthier matters of the law should not be bypassed (i.e. mercy, faithfulness, love of God) while not neglecting tithe. Luke 11:42, Matthew 23:23. (In one case, it was recorded that a pharisee tithed on all he owned - Luke 18:12).
He did not castigate the Pharisees on what they tithed on but on what they were doing wrong and he told them not to neglect tithing. SIMPLE


Paul (who himself was doing other work) also said just as the ministers in the temple lived of the temple, in the same way, the Lord ordained those that preach the gospel should live of the gospel. I Cor 9:11-13.
He said it was a right.

Some tithe on gross income, some on net, some on gifts, some on profits, some on all stated. It depends on what they interprete of the bible. 'Tithe on all' is the guide.
Whichever way, do not neglect to tithe. It is simple.



@garyarnold, who claims to give 'far more than mere tenth', obviously has a base to which he used to calculate 'far more than a mere tenth'.
No one is trying to out-do each other, we are giving for the purpose of the gospel.
Therefore, whoever comes here and starts going on and on about why Christians should not tithe (which is a tenth), which is just one of the ways to give, has real issues especially since they claim to give far more.

for your mind to understand from an Ex-member of the church called Christ embassy this is real incite?

This is how the Rhapsody of Realities Scam Really works

it is forbden in the bible to make money out of the preaching or teaching of the scriptures

Every month they ask you to give donations for what they call outreach and on top you are to pay tithes every time you come to church service so if you come in the morning and the evening then you pay tithes or as they call it offerings

At the start of every month they give you the hell fire mentality if you don’t pay your first fruits
You’re not command to give but they always give you a guilt trip implying if you don’t pay you won’t get your blessing because you have robbed God in offerings

Well at the start of every month you come to church and you walk in they ask you have you got your Rhapsody of Realities if you say no and then they get one and then they put their hands out saying that will be £2.00 pounds which your own tithes have just paid for before when you pay for the reach out after about a week they in some of the churches in the UK they get you to give Rhapsody of Realities in your sphere of contact in what they call “CELL GROUPS” in the these “CELL GROUPS” they tell you to sale to the members of the groups and claw back your money you spent in the church buying them and then you are told with the “Cell Leaders”

to give them free in some cases in your outreach and contac but your encouraged to sale them to the person your contacting but your primary mission is to get them to the "cell group" where they start there indoctrination process then if there keen to come to church So when they do come your contact i.e. person, you’re seen as a “soul winner” because according to (pastor Chris) there is two things God does not mess with which is this

1 “soul winner”
2 “Tithers”
Why you wonder well “soul winner” bring in more tithers and pay cash
A perfect enterprise because the by-product is this supposedly you bring people into heaven because as (Pastor Chris) says
1 we make you meaning convert you
2 we build you meaning change your mind there is another word indoctrinate or better put brain wash you
3 We send you? We commission you to get more tithers this is called evangelism in there twist version of truth.
4 to make more souls
5 this means more cash i.e. money

because you’re not a good Christian if you are not winning souls and if your poor you have lack of faith the only primary miracles you see in the church are bills getting paid because all the ministers talk about is business and making money but every now and then the minister preach a good sermon to help make you a better person but 90% is about money and sowing seeds this is Christ embassy in a nut shell

The great commission is to preach the Gospel?
But who said you can’t make lots of cash in the processes because God wants you rich and not poor because being poor is a sin and to “remain poor is a greater sin” this is the words (Pastor Chris) himself I have slightly twisted this but this is the real meaning of what he says
But he did state this “to remain poor is a sin”

Here is a copy of one of the envelopes from Christ embassy to show you I am the real deal and not some babbler

@Snowwy said, "I can see you have no further comment on Hebrews 7. I'm sure you never saw it in that light. But rather than admit it, you decide to go into rhetorics."

Not correct. I have seen and heard every argument for tithing there is, over and over again. I am just tired of repeating myself over and over and over and over again. I have given up on you as you obviously have been brainwashed beyond any help from me. I now leave it in God's hands to reveal His truth to you.

I am an ordained minister. I have qualified to use the title Certified Professional Money and Finance Minister through the Trinity Institute of Christian Counseling in cooperation with the American Theological Education Association. This was a special title I requested and applied for as a retired accountant and tax auditor. To get the title I had so submit a resume showing my education and work experience along with an essay showing how my education, work experience, and life experiences would qualify for me for this title. Being that my whole career dealt with determining income, distinguishing income from assets, etc., and adding to my work experience my actual experience in teaching finances at a couple churches, along with me filling in for one school year teaching one class at a Seventh-Day Adventist School, my published material on tithing and giving, and I could go on and on.

I don't consider myself an expert on any other topic in the Bible. Just this morning I received another email from a pastor who has found my material and I quote from him:
"Thanks for the link to the tithing website. It is a very well thought out and helpful site! The idea of freewill giving that supersedes tithing is exactly what I want to teach. The scriputres you have provided in an organized fashion will aid me in my research this week." I get that type of email often. There are now pastors and Bible Study instructors in the US, Canada, Australia, and East Africa teaching from my material that I know of. As of this morning, over 3,200 people have downloaded my free book. Many pastors have changed their teaching after reading my material.

God uses each of us in specific ways. God called me to teach this topic (only) a few years ago, and it was God, through His Holy Spirit, that taught me and led me through my studies.

I don't want anyone to accept what I teach as the absolute truth without verifying what I teach with the scriptures. THE SCRIPTURES, not what you have been taught by someone else.

I would rather you call your giving "tithing" than not give at all. My main fight is with those who teach that tithing is a REQUIREMENT of Christians, and that you are robbing God if you don't tithe. Those who just call their giving, "tithing," are hurting getting the truth to those taught that tithing is a requirement. It causes confusion, especially for new Christians, or those who haven't studied the scriptures. The word tithing is used incorrectly so much I run across people weekly that think ANY amount of giving is tithing. The word tithing has been watered down to be almost meaningless thanks to ignorant and dishonest pastors.

I recently read a blog from a new born-again believer who had been going to church only a few weeks. He had already been taught that tithing was required of Christians. He wrote his article on tithing. Several, including myself, gave our comments. He came back and said that now he was all confused and wished he had never started going to church.

Before the law, tithe was merely a mathematical term. Then God defined His tithe and gave specific instructions. After the law we find NO teaching of tithing, and NO references to tithing except when referring to the Old Testament. NO ONE claimed they were tithing by giving a tenth of their income before 1870. If that doesn't tell you something, nothing will. What easier way could satan bring confusion to the church than something dealing with money.

There is nothing more I can do here.

Peace, and may God Bless all of you.

@garyarnold,
thanks for the brief.
I am not surprised you decided to call me 'brain-washed' now after the expose on Hebrews 7.
You just realised you had nothing to argue on again. You have picked various scriptures that after discussion, and you had nothing to counter you quickly jumped to another again.
Ofcourse, with all that has transpired here, it's obvious for all to see how you've been quoting the scripture to suit what you want to hear.
Now you suddenly feel sorry for the 'brainwashed' lots who you've told to 'keep shut' and 'lose the word' or 'get over it'.

Seriously, is this how you teach?
In your haste to win arguments you lost sight of the whole essence of giving.
Abraham's tithing was not the end of his giving, he gave God his son, helped strangers while the Israelites tithed, gave all manner of offering & firstfruits, helped the needy, the fatherless, stranger, gave donations for building projects etc.
It's funny when you say people think when they have tithed, that's all. They were not taught right and they have no scripture, both in OT & NT showing them that once they tithe, they have fulfilled giving. They have no excuse & I know you can confirm same.



Get an independent eye to view your comments against the bible and the responses, you've been getting.
If you have been teaching based on what you've been saying here:

1. Abraham gave a tenth he didn't tithe.
2. Abraham gave a one-off tenth to Melchizedek based on custom
3. Loot wasn't for the victor
4. Tithe is like tax, it's taxation. (Ofcourse, I went back to check. You said in one place that tithe was like tax, then you said it's taxation. And to think I apologised for 'misquoting' you)
5. Abraham gave a tenth while Melchizedek received a tithe as the Levites in his loins were tithing in preparation for the law

It's not a surprise how you've been confusing people. Have we not discussed this and all have been debunked?

Since expounding based on the word of God is now what you call 'brain-washing', so let it be.
I'm glad you give 'far far more than a mere tenth' to God, leave the 'brainwashed' folks  who give tithe and all other giving to God, in faith & honour, in peace.
God bless you too.

@ garyarnold,

quote,

I am an ordained minister.  I have qualified to use the title Certified Professional Money and Finance Minister through the Trinity Institute of Christian Counseling in cooperation with the American Theological Education Association.  This was a special title I requested and applied for as a retired accountant and tax auditor.  To get the title I had so submit a resume showing my education and work experience along with an essay showing how my education, work experience, and life experiences would qualify for me for this title.  Being that my whole career dealt with determining income, distinguishing income from assets, etc., and adding to my work experience my actual experience in teaching finances at a couple churches, along with me filling in for one school year teaching one class at a Seventh-Day Adventist School, my published material on tithing and giving, and I could go on and on.

YOU ARE DOING A GOOD WORK, LIBERATING MANY FROM  YOKES, AND RECCOMENDING THE EASY YOKE OF CHRIST TO MANY,

WHAT DO YOU EXPECT? PRAISE? NO,, EXPECT PEOPLE WHO YOU ARE EXPOSING TO CAUSE A RIDDICLE, ON YOUR PERSON OR TWIST WHAT YOU SAY TO DISTRACT YOU, BUT YOUR STRENGHT WILL BE YOUR 'UNWAVERING RESOLVE' NOT TO GET DISTRACTED.BUT THEN,MANY ARE ALSO LEARNING 'NEW THINGS'.

YOU THINK THEY DONT KNOW? SOME KNEW EVERYTHING THAT YOU ARE SAYING, BUT TO ACCEPT BECAME A PROBLEM.

TO ME YOU DONT EVEN NEED TO POST WHAT I 'QUOTED' ABOVE, YOU ARE STANDING FOR THE TRUTH,AND IT MUST COME WITH A PRICE;RIDICULE.

JUST IGNORE IT OR LAUGH IT OFF,AND CONTINUE YOUR CONTRIBUTION.

@snowwy,

ONE PARTICULAR TRUTH THAT STANDS OUT ON THIS ISSUE OF CHRISTIANS TITHING IS THAT YOU GUYS HAVE NO PARTICULAR DEFINATION FOR IT, AND IF YOU DO, AND WE COMPARE IT TO OTHERS THAT SHARE THE SAME VIEW OF TITHING WITH YOU,IT DOESN'NT AGREE,

(and remember that from page 7 till this last page here,i have demanded repeatedly for your own defination but till now you did not,maybe because you dont want to get commited to your own defination which would serve as a boundary and a refference,and maybe you you have the fear that once you give your defination,you cant change what has already been recorded and credited to you.

a christian should be able define and defend what he believes, it should not assume a hidden identity or faceless concept. anyway we still welcome you defination of 'christian tithe').

AND I WILL ADVICE YOU TO FOCUS ON THIS TOPIC, YOUR RESPONSE TO MY LAST POST SUGGEST THAT YOU WELCOME FURTHER DISCUSSION ON BIBLE ISSUES,BUT DIRECTING RIDICULE TO A PERSON RATHER THAN TO FOCUS ON THE TOPIC IS LAUGHABLE,HONESTLY.

@Bernimoor,
the forum is open for all to learn from so I am open to learn and I've learnt and learning.

I wonder what your issue is with me. I'v stated my belief of tithing based on the scripture. You guys have a problem with it & made a big issue out of it. Maybe you should let go of the bias and look at what I'm posting and my answers. I'm surprised you say I am 'afraid'. Of what or who?

Where on this thread have you seen me try to suck up to people who share my belief in tithing? Or quote away from the scripture.

Please just show me one.
So where do you get the idea that I'm trying to be careful.

As per saying I'm riduculing people, I really wonder?
Did I call anyone 'brain-washed' or 'not following GODs commands?', or that their giving is an 'insult' to GOD, or they should 'keep shut' and a host of other things?
Please, you are barking up the wrong tree.

@Snowwy said, "(Ofcourse, I went back to check. You said in one place that tithe was like tax, then you said it's taxation. And to think I apologised for 'misquoting' you)"

Again, he reads what I write no better than he reads the scriptures.

I NEVER said "it's taxation."  I quoted John MacArthur, Dr. Russell Kelly, and the Jewish Encyclopedia, all of which state that the tithe was a method of taxation.  Since the Bible does not call it a tax, I don't call it a tax.  But I do point out the similarities.

My position on Hebrews 7 hasn't changed, and it agrees with that of many theologians.

My position agrees with many well respected individuals known throughout history.

LIST OF TITHING OPPONENTS IN HISTORY

Tithing opponents throughout the years as compiled by Dr. David Croteau, Liberty University, You Mean I Don’t Have to Tithe?, p271-292.

Clement of Rome 100
Didache 100
Justin Martyr 165
Tertullian 230
Origen 255
Cyprian 258
Waldenses 1150+-
Thomas Aquinas 1275
John Wycliff 1384
John Huss 1415
German Peasants 1520
Anabaptists 1525
Erasmus 1536
Otto Brumfels 1534
Martin Luther 1546
Philip Melanchthon 1560
Separatists Amsterdam 1603
John Smythe 1609 Baptist
John Robinson 1610
English Parliament 1650+-
Puritans & Plgrims Mass 1650+-
John Cotton 1652 Puritan
Roger Williams 1636 Baptist
Little Parliament 1653
Oliver Cromwell 1658
John Milton 1658 Puritan
Particular Baptists 1660
John Owen 1680 Baptist
Francis Turretin 1687
John Bunyan 1688 Baptist
Quakers 1768
John Gill 1771 Baptist
John Wesley 1791
BAPTISTS IN AMERICA 1800s
Adam Clarke 1832 Baptist
Charles Buck 1833
J C Philpot 1835 Baptist
Charles H Spurgeon 1832 Baptist
Parsons Cooke 1850
Samuel Harris 1850
Edward A Lawrence 1850
John Peter Lange 1876
Henry William Clark 1891 Engllish
S H Kellogg 1891
G Campbell Morgan 1898 Congregational
Albert Vail 1913 Baptist
Frank Fox 1913
David MaConaughy 1918 Episcopal
William Pettingill 1932
John Harvey Grime 1934 Baptist
John T Mueller 1934 Lutheran
H E Dana 1937 Bapt Historian
R C H LENSKI 1946 Lutheran
Lewis Sperry Chafer 1948 DTS Foundeer
W E Vine 1949
James F Rand 1953
Francis Pieper 1953 Lutheran
Ray Stedman 1951
L L McR 1955 Catholic
Paul Leonard Stagg 1958 Baptist
Hiley H Ward 1958 Baptist
Roy T Cowles 1958
Elizabeth P Tilton 1958
R C Rein 1958 Lutheran
Robert A Baker 1959 Bapt Historian
Wick Bromall 1960
John Byron Evans 1960
Norman Tenpas 1967
James Edward Anderson 1967
Alfred Martin 1968
CHARLES C RYRIE 1969 DTS
Jerry Horner 1972 S Baptist
Pieter Verhoef 1974
Dennis Wretlind 1975
Jack J Peterson 1978 Pres
Donald Kraybill 1978
Jon Zens 1979 Baptist
Richard Cunningham 1979 S Bapt
Gary Frieson 1980
JOHN MACARTHUR 1982-2000
Paul Fink 1982
George Monroe Castillo 1982
Tony Badillo 1984
James M Boice 1986
Michael E Oliver 1986 Rest
W Clyde Tilley 1987
Scott Collier 1987
Ronald M Campbell 1987
R E O White 1988
William McDonald 1989
Charles Swindoll 1990 Dallas Seminary
Rhodes Thompson 1990
J VERNON MCGEE 1999
Jerome Smith 1992
CRAIG BLOMBERG 1993 Denver Seminary
J Duncan M Derrett 1993
Walter Kaiser Jr 1994 Gordon-Cromwell
Moises Silva 1994
Benny D Prince 1995
Brian K Morley 1996
Linda L Belleville 1996
Ron Rhodes 1997
Ernest L Martin 1997
Michael Webb 1998
R Johnston 1999
Mark Snoeberger 2000 Baptist
Stuart Murray 2000 Eng
George W Greene 2000
Old Line Primitive Baptists 2000
Jaime Cardinal Sin 2000 Cath Archbishop
RUSSELL EARL KELLY 2001 Baptist
Jonathan Kitchcart 2001
Frank Viola 2002
George Barna 2002
Michael Morrison 2002
Elliott Miller 2003
Matthew Narramore 2004
David Alan Black 2004 Baptist SEBTS
Andreas Kostenberger 2007 Baptist SEBTS
Danny Akin 2007 Baptist SEBTS
Mark Driscoll 2008
Roman Catholic Church
Jehovah’s Witnesses
New Worldwide Church of God

@garyarnold,
oh you did not say tithe is taxation but you quoted someone that did? So what should we make of that? You quoted someone for the fun of it or for a purpose? please, I know where you were heading to.

On Heb 7, you feel happy since you have a long list of Theologians that support your belief. I am happy for you. Yet when those in support of tithing just make a mention of an individual who explained tithe to them, those against tithe'll say they are brainwashed and cannot understand scripture themselves.
Ok, I respect that.

Heb 7 has alot of indepth meaning. I got the inspiration of the understanding by the Holy Spirit. I don't need theologians to support me.

@Snowwy said, "I know where you were heading to. "

The problem is, Snowwy, you have NO IDEA where I was heading to.

You miss my points completely. No sense going any further. You have demonstrated well your lack of knowledge and understanding. Exactly what I would expect of a church goer who believes everything the pastor says.

@garyarnold,
now this get hilarious.
You had no comeback on what was debunked yet you say I didn't understand you?
After Hebrews 7, expose along with the various scriptures you could not counter their plain explanations, you tell me I'm brainwashed?

Rather you started rhetorics, and belting out your academic achievements while brandishing a title you requested for and
you gimme a long list of individuals who oppose tithing which makes you very confident yet all I showed you was the Word and yet you say I act like just like a church-goer?
You have really confirmed alot. Ofcourse, your fellow anti-tithe posters see nothing wrong (but will let hell lose if those in favour of tithe said just an inch of what you said), rather they praise you. (Laughs)

This shows alot. Let's let it be then.

A study of Hebrews 7 could take up a whole book. There is not space on a blog to do such.

Below are excerpts taken from the book, "Should the Church Teach Tithing" by Russell Earl Kelly, Ph.D.:

2 Cor. 3:14 But their minds were blinded; for until this day the same veil
remains un-taken away in the reading of the old testament—which veil is
done away in Christ.
Christian tithing falls into the trap described in verse 14. In order to teach
tithing, one can only go back to pre-Calvary texts like Genesis 14, Leviticus 27,
Malachi 3 and Matthew 23. Thus the tithe-advocate is still standing on Old
Covenant, pre-Calvary, ground and does not see the changes brought about
through viewing Christ. “The same veil remains un-taken away in the reading of
the old testament.”
Since Hebrews 7 teaches that “the commandment to take tithes of the people
according to the law” was “disannulled” when the priesthood was changed, then,
the veil should have been taken away by the truth of the high priesthood of Christ
and the priesthood of every believer (Heb. 7:5,12,18).

By beholding Christ we are guaranteed to be changed from an Old Covenant
no-glory status into a New Covenant glory standing. As church members feel
compassion towards the lost world around them, their giving will increase spontaneously without regard to commands or percentages. The problem is that too
many pastors feel secure with a set percentage to request and are afraid to remove
the Old Covenant veil and take the step of faith towards other New Covenant
glorious principles.

The most important reason that tithing does more harm than good relates
to the gospel. Teaching tithing to meet financial needs actually robs the church
of God’s blessing available if it had used the Spirit-approved New Covenant principles.
Those pastors and churches that teach tithing will never experience the
greater success they will enjoy from God’s hand when they replace tithing sermons
with sermons about soul-winning. The success of the New Covenant church
proves that the first century poor, women, children and slaves were motivated by
the desire to see souls won to the Lord. Their giving was motivated by love, not
Law.

Since tithing is included within the scope of Hebrews 7:18, one must
conclude that teaching tithing is equivalent to teaching a spiritually “weak” and
“useless,” or “unprofitable” doctrine.

@ snowwy

,

I'v stated my belief of tithing based on the scripture. You guys have a problem with it & made a big issue out of it.

OK,LETS ASSUME I DID NOT NOTICE IT AS YOU SAID,BUT BECAUSE OF OTHERS,STATE IT FOR THE LAST TIME.

I thought I was done here, but it appears some still need more help in understanding the scriptures.

Matthew 23:23 (KJV) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

1 - Did Jesus commend them for tithing on income? No.
2 - Did Jesus commend them for tithing on wages? No.
3 - Did Jesus commend them for tithing money? No.
4 - Did Jesus commend them for tithing per the law? Yes.

Those that use Matthew 23:23 to say that Jesus commended tithing are leaving out the fact the He commended tithing PER THE LAW (matters of the law). Therefore, if you feel that justifies tithing today, FOLLOW THE LAW per the scriptures.

He is an example to show how some are taking scripture out of context:

Your son, John, came home from school today. During school, Jeff told the teacher that every day when he gets home from school his mother let's him eat an apple for a snack. The teacher commended John for eating an apple each day for a snack.

John came home and looked for an apple but there were none. Instead he found a candy bar and ate that instead. When you come home you ask John why he ate a candy bar and John says the teacher commended Jeff for eating a snack when he gets home from school. Since we didn't have any apples, I ate the candy bar instead.

Those who say Jesus commended tithing are doing the same thing as John. You are leaving out WHAT Jesus commended tithing from.

You are taking a specific and making a generalization out of it. That is not the proper way to interpret scripture.

This is the KEY to understand Matthew 23 vs 23. Tithe teachers had taken verse 23 out of context.

Matthew 23:1-3

v1. Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples

v2. "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. (N.I.V)

v2. "The teachers of religious law and the Pharisees are the official interpreters of the law of Moses. (NLT)

v2. Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: (KJV)

v3. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. (NIV)

v3. So practice and obey whatever they tell you, but don't follow their example. For they don't practice what they teach (NLT)

v3. All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. (KJV)

v4. They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. (NIV)

Then read verse 23 in context.

Jesus was recognizing ordained authority after the law of moses because he was still under the law during his days. Notice he told his disciples and the crowd, "DO NOT DO WHAT THEY DO" verse 3.

VERY CLEAR AND SIMPLE, IF THE PHARISEES AND TEACHERS OF THE LAW PAY TITHES, IN VERSE 23, JESUS WOULD BE SAYING TO HIS DISCIPLE NOT TO PAY TITHE AS IN VERSE 3.

Am out of here but might come back if need be. SHALOM !

Mark 12:14

And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we KNOW that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not? (KJV)

They came to him and said, "Teacher, we KNOW you are a man of integrity. You aren't swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who they are; but you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not? (NIV)

"Teacher," they said, "we KNOW how honest you are. You are impartial and don't play favorites. You teach the way of God truthfully. Now tell us--is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not? (NLT)

LORD, I WANT TO BE MORE LIKE JESUS. SO HELP ME GOD.

If tithes, offerings and first fruits are for priests, Levites and widows, orphans and the fatherless according to the Law, can those who head churches and stand at the pulpits today prove to us that they are descendants of Levi? Is it right for them to call themselves priests? How is it that the focus today is on individual and not collective/national prosperity as mentioned in the Bible?

Was Melchizedek a descendant of Levi?

goshen360:

For those who said Tithes is being taught out of revelation the pastor received. THIS IS HERESY AND FALSEHOOD. EVERY REVELATION IS ROOTED IN BIBLICAL TRUTH AND ANY REVELATION THAT IS NOT GROUNDED IN THE TRUTH IS FALSEHOOD AND IT IS TAUGHT OUT OF GREED OR TAUGHT AS "WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING" TEACHING.

Don't manipulate dear . Revelation is not a personal thing. It simply means understanding of Gods word.  You're trying to make it sound as if revelation refers to a man seeing vision in the night.

Tithing is not based on personal revelation but it's a spiritual principle in God. And as other spiritual principles . They are for ever. Such as honoring your parents, prayer, worship, offerings,

The issue of personal revelation has to do with different convictions based on Gods word. Everybody has a right to what he persuaded by.

Some eat meat offer to idols others feel its not right. You have no right to judge another mans conviction. That' will be manipulation . What makes you feel your own understanding is the correct one. Hope you get the point. Pls try meditate on the scripture below.

Romans 14:2-6
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

If we all abide with the word of God there should be no contention. It is the spirit that quickeneth. Let's not get in the flesh in winning argument .

Tithing is in NO WAY a spiritual principle. That is garbage. If tithing was a spiritual principle, you would tithe spiritually, not materially.

Look up the word spiritual in the dictionary.

That is carnal. The issue about the giving is not the substance ,but the heart. Is baptism and communion not spiritual . Yet we do them physically . Because it is not about the bread and drink. That's how a carnal mind sees it. But the principles it stands for.

See Paul's comment on physical giving and how he related it to spirttual sacrifice

Philippians 4:18
18 But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.