FXKing2012:

@PastorKun, why do u even call yourself a pastor?

Becos I am a pastor

Pastor Kun:

Becos I am a pastor

in the church of satan?

[b]@ snowwy,

you make me laugh. It's a pity that despite spelling it out for you, you still say Abraham made a 'mere vow' regarding tithing. Since you still cannot see that Abraham tithed WITHOUT making prior a vow to tithe, then let's let it be. No need for argument.

STOP USING THE WORD THAT ABRAHAM TITHED, BECAUSE I REAPEAT THE WORD 'TITHE' IS STRICTLY ON INCREASE, IS A STATEMENT OF FACT.

THAT IS TO SAY THAT WHENEVER THERE IS NO INCREASE, THERE IS NO 'TITHE'. to butress my point, BECAUSE THERE IS NO 'INCREASE ON EVERY SABBATH YEAR'(7th)yr, TITHE IS NOT PAID , FOR THE WHOLE OF SABBATH YEAR.

CAN YOU COMPARE THAT TO YOUR OWN CONCEPT OF 'EVER CONTINUED PAYING OF TITHE' TO THIS THAT YOUR OWN TITHE DOES NOT FOLLOW ANY PATTERN?

WAR SPOILS BELONG TO GOD,BECAUSE HE GAVE THEM(ABRAHAM) THE VICTORY,AND LEFT TO ABRAHAM,HE IS NOTHING WITHOUT GODS BACKING,

IT IS CRIMINAL AND ABSURD AND AN INSULT OR DISRESPECT TO THE ALMIGHTY GOD TO ALLOT WAR SPOILS AS ABRAHAM'S PERSONAL BELONGINGS BECAUSE ABRAHAM BARGAINED WITH GOD HOW THE SPOILS WILL BE USED 'ONLY IF' GOD ASSIST HIM TO WIN .

SO,WHO OWN ABRAHAM, AND WHO OWN THE WAR SPOILS.?IS ABRAHAM INDEPENDENT OF GOD?

HOW DO YOU RECOGNISE AN INCREASE ON WAR SPOILS WHEN THE TRUE OWNER HAVE EITHER FLED AWAY OR HAVE BEEN STRUCK DEAD IN WAR ? THIS SHOWS THAT ABRAHAM DID NOT TITHE BUT FUFILLED A MERE VOW OF GIVING TENTH PORTION. HE DID NOT GIVE ON INCREASE AND STAND DISQUALIFIED TOTALLY TO BE REFFERED TO AS TITHE. SIMPLE.

AGAIN,

GIVE THE FULL DEFINATION OF 'TITHE' THAT SHOULD BE PRACTICED BY CHRISTIAN.ITS NECCESARRY TO CREATE A BOUNDARY.

YOUR REFUSAL WILL CLEARLY SHOW PEOPLE YOUR CLEAR INTENTION ON TITHE MAYBE ITS GENUINE OR NOT,OR BASED ON FRAUD.


[/b]

@Bernimoore,
in order to slander me, you keep showing how pathetic you are. Seriously.
1. You initially said tithe & tenth were not the same & i showed you Heb 7:2 & Heb 7:6.

2. You said Abraham made a 'mere vow' to GOD and I told you the vow Abraham made was not to take anything from King of Sodom so that the King of Sodom will not say that he made Abraham rich. Gen 14:22-23. It had nothing to do with the tithe.

3. You have now said that I Sam 15 shows that Saul's spoil was for GOD. Did you read I Sam 15:3. GOD did not want any of it. GOD told Saul to destroy EVERYTHING. Is that what you tell me is God's?
Did you read that Saul defied God's command and the people tnok OF the spoil, the best for GOD, verse 21?
They didnt take the whole spoil, they took the best out of it for GOD and GOD was angry with Saul for disobeying him.
That was weak, the spoils are for the victor. I Sam. 30:19-20.

I can see you love to argue blindly and I have nothing further to add this argument since you prefer to remain confused.

[b]@ Snowwy,

What do you mean by slander? when you can't sustain your claim?

1. You initially said tithe & tenth were not the same & i showed you Heb 7:2 & Heb 7:6.

AND I STILL MAINTAIN THAT A ''MERE VOW OF DIVIDING TENTH PART OF SPOILS'' AND ''TITHE LAW'' IN THE LAW COVENANT WITH LEVI, ARE NOT THE SAME.


Hebrews 7:2,6;

2 and Abraham gave him one tenth of all he had taken. (The first meaning of Melchizedek's name is
King of Righteousness; and because he was king of Salem, his name also means
King of Peace.)

6 Melchizedek was not descended from Levi, but he collected one tenth from Abraham and blessed him, the man who received God's promises.

YOU HAVE NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION,

YOUR ANSWER ABOVE HERE IN HEB 7:2,6. IS REFFERING TO SOMEONE (MELCHIZ) RECEIVING AND ABRAHAM GIVING A VOW OR THE FUFILEMENT OF PROMISE HE (ABRAHAM) HAD WITH GOD 'IF GOD' AID HIM TO WIN, AFRTER WINNING,SINCE HE CANT SEE GOD PHYSICALLY, BUT CHOOSE TO FUFFILL BY DIVIDING A TENTH PORTION OF SPOILS.THAT ACT WAS NOT 'TITHING' BECAUSE;

'TITHE' IS STRICTLY ON INCREASE, IS A STATEMENT OF FACT.

THAT IS TO SAY THAT WHENEVER THERE IS NO INCREASE, THERE IS NO 'TITHE'. to butress my point, BECAUSE THERE IS NO 'INCREASE ON EVERY SABBATH YEAR'(7th)yr, TITHE IS NOT PAID , FOR THE WHOLE OF SABBATH YEAR.
1 Sam 15;21 ''

The soldiers took sheep and cattle from the plunder, the best of what was devoted to God, in order to sacrifice them to the LORD your God at Gilgal.”

THE WORD IN BLUE ABOVE SHOWS THAT 'THE SPOILS' WERE DEVOTED TO GOD AS WAR SPOILS USED TO BE IN OLD ISREAL.

THEIR NOT FOLLOWING THE INNITIAL INSTRUCTION IS A SEPARATE ISSUE.

AGAIN,

GIVE THE FULL DEFINATION OF 'TITHE' THAT SHOULD BE PRACTICED BY CHRISTIAN.ITS NECCESARRY TO CREATE A BOUNDARY.

YOUR REFUSAL WILL CLEARLY SHOW PEOPLE YOUR CLEAR INTENTION ON TITHE MAYBE ITS GENUINE OR NOT,OR BASED ON FRAUD.







[/b]

[b]@ joeagbaje,

BACK TO YOU,

HOW ARE YOU DOING?

The structure under the law was strictly for the Jews . The tithes we give today is not based on levitical order.

YOUR STATEMENT ABOVE SHOWS THAT YOU ADMITTED THAT 'TITHING' UNDER THE OLD LEVITICAL ORDER HAS CEASED TO OPERATE,, ITS CONFIRMED IN YOUR STATEMENT.

THIS IS BASED ON THE FACT THAT IT WAS PURELY FOR 'JEWS'ACCORDING TO YOU.

THESE ABOVE AKNOWLEDGEMENT WILL SERVE AS AN UNCHANGED REFFERENCE POINT IN FURTHER DEBATE ON TITHING ISSUES. AND CANNOT BE ALTERED OR REVERSED.

PLS I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS;BUT IF I MAY BE CORRECT,YOU CLAIMED THAT YOUR OWN FORM OF 'TITHING'(of which is yet to be defined) FOLLOWS THE ABRAHAMS PATTERN.

AND THAT THE EVENT INVOLVING ABRAHAM IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE WAS 'A FUNCTION' OF 'IF GOD COULD AID HIM WINNING THE WAR AGAINST .HE THEN VOWED (A) TO GOD FIRST.(A1) KEEP THE VOW OUTSIDE THE KNOWLEDGE OF KING OF SODOM(B) KING OF SODDOM HEARD 'PART OF THE VOW' THAT CONCERNS HIM AFTER ABRAHAM HAD ALREADY WON THE WAR.AND IN FUFILEMENT OF PROMISE HE (ABRAHAM) HAD WITH GOD 'IF GOD' WHO AID HIM TO WIN,OF WHICH HE DID WON WITH GODS SOLID BACKING,AND AFTER WINNING,SINCE HE CANT SEE GOD PHYSICALLY, BUT FEEL INDEBTED TO FUFFILL HIS EARLIER PROMISE (A) ABOVE,THEN HE CHOOSE TO FUFFILL IT BY DIVIDING A TENTH PORTION OF SPOILS,AND NOT INCREASE.BECAUSE;(according to the standard that 'tithe laws are deemed fit to be applied,it must satisfy a basic requirement) AND THAT IS;

'TITHE' IS STRICTLY ON INCREASE,, IS A STATEMENT OF FACT.

THAT IS TO SAY THAT WHENEVER THERE IS NO INCREASE, THERE IS NO 'TITHE'. to butress my point, BECAUSE THERE IS NO 'INCREASE ON EVERY SABBATH YEAR'(7th)yr, TITHE IS NOT PAID , FOR THE WHOLE OF SABBATH YEAR.

1,HOW DO YOU RECOGNISE AN INCREASE ON WAR SPOILS WHEN THE TRUE OWNERS WHO HAVE THE HISTORY OR FULL INFORMATION OF WHEATHER THEIR STOCK INCREASES OR NOT OR DETERMINE THE PART THAT ACTUALLY INCREASED WITH YEARS HAVE EITHER FLED AWAY OR HAVE BEEN STRUCK DEAD IN WAR ?

2,HOW DO YOU DETERMINE THAT ABRAHAM HAVE SET A STANDARD TO FOLLOW, AND HOW DO CHRISTIANS FOLLOW IT.

3,IF A CHURCH DEEM IT FIT TO RECEIVE TITHES, NOT BASED ON LAW COVENANT DONE AWAY WITH,
IS IT FAIR TO ALSO HAVE WHAT IS CALLED 'VOW' GIVING, WHEN THE CONCEPT THE CHURCH CHOOSE TO FOLLOW COMES FROM 'THE ACT OF ABRAHAM,, TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION (A) AND (A1) ABOVE.

ANSWERS PLS. [/b]

The point is. When we tithe,we are not doing it because the law says so. It's because it's a spiritual principle. And it works for those who believe in it. There are spritual pronciples under the law. When we do them its not because the law say so. Its because the are spiritual principles. For example I give to the poor regularly on personal basis apart from the ones we do cooperately , but I do it because it's a spiritual principle to help others not because the law commanded it. I help stranded strangers ,not because the law commanded it. It's a principle. Abraham met God in his bid to help strangers. But unknowingly to him. The stranger was God.

Lot also brought angels into his house because he thought they were stranded individuals. When you find fathers of faith operate in divine secrets like this ,we don't need a law to make us do it

@Snowwy,

I think you need to look up the word "increase" in a dictionary. Increase does NOT mean income.

The word "increase" as used in the scriptures to describe the tithe means PRODUCE. The seed increases into fruit. The seed increases into a tree and then produces fruit.

If you work and make $3,000 per month, that is income, not increase. If you get a raise to $3,200 a month, your salary has increased $200 a month.

If your bank account on January 1 is $10,000 and on December 31 is $9,000, you have a decrease.

You have fallen for the false teachings where ignorant and/or dishonest pastors like to use the word increase to mean your income, gifts, inheritances, etc.

For sake of argument, let's say that Abram owned the spoils of war he gave the tenth from. Was that Abram's regular income? NO. It was a one-time recorded event. Therefore, IF you are going to honestly follow Abram's example, you can only give a tenth ONE TIME, from something other than your regular income, and keep nothing for yourself.

You people are a joke when you use Abram as your example for tithing.

I feel sorry for such gullible church goers. You have been brainwashed to the point of blindness to the truth.

Facts:

There is no scripture showing Abram/Abraham ever tithed from his regular income.

God did not command a tithe on inheritances.  In fact, God commanded ONLY THOSE who inherited property to tithe, and the tithe had to come FROM the inherited PROPERTY.

Under the Mosaic law, the victor did NOT own the war spoils as shown in Numbers 31.  God said how the spoils were to be divided.  That proves, beyond any doubt, that what Abram did was NOT carried forward into the law.  It had NOTHING to do with the law.

You accuse me of making assumptions based on Biblical historians that say it was custom to give a tenth of the spoils yet YOU make the assumption Abram gave the tenth out of faith.  Ignore the assumptions and you are left without knowing WHY Abram gave a tenth.

Most pastors that teach tithing don't teach it as voluntary, but rather you are robbing God if you don't tithe.  PURE FRAUD. 

If the way tithing is taught in most churches today doesn't stop, it will be the downfall of the Protestant Church.  Why was the Protestant Church formed in the first place?  Didn't it have to do over money issues in the Catholic Church?  The Protestant Church is going in the same direction.

Joagbaje:

Abraham met God in his bid to help strangers. But unknowingly to him. The stranger was God.

are you saying Melchi is God? That God came in physical form just to collect tithe from man? Joagbaje are you that desperate? You had to insult the Almighty to save your source of income!

Abraham's tithe was based on the culture of the babylonians which far pre-dates the biblical tithes. For those that don't know, abraham was from the Land of Ur in the babylonian area also called mesopotamia. If in doubt just google 'babylonian tithe' or 'mesopotamian tithe' and you would discover that tithing to Kings at that time was their culture then. Abraham gave a tithe to the King of Salem based on this culture and not based on any religious injunction.

garyarnold:

Facts:

There is no scripture showing Abram/Abraham ever tithed from his regular income,

Let's leave all these arithmetic . One thing us clear. The first belong to God , the tenth belong to God. Why tenth ,why not 11th or 12th only God can say.

The number ten symbolizes a whole item, and also completion.

From Christian Resources Today, “Ten : 10 - Biblical Meaning of Number: deals with completeness that happens in a divine order or completed during a course of time. There's nothing that is left wanting within the complete cycle the number ten has just completed.”

That would be the reason for a tenth and not 2 tenths, etc. One tenth would symbolize completeness; a complete transaction.

I count just over 300 occurrences of the words ten or tenth in the KJV of the Holy Bible. 95% occur before Calvary. The number 10 has much significance in the Old Testament but virtually no significance in the New Testament. In fact, some of the few times those words appear after Calvary it is in reference to the Old Covenant.

At Calvary, the Old Covenant came to its completion. There is nothing after Calvary to suggest that the number ten represents completion.

In the New Testament, God wants 100% of us. Since we are now under grace, rather than use percentages or guidelines for giving, God will look at our heart. Many will have a false sense of security by following the Old Testament tithing law as a guideline when maybe God wants that person to give 50% or more. Using the Old Testament law as a guideline is opposite to using the Holy Spirit.

Zikkyy:

are you saying Melchi is God? That God came in physical form just to collect tithe from man? Joagbaje are you that desperate? You had to insult the Almighty to save your source of income!  

Olodo! Who gave you computer to type sef?

Genesis 18:1-3
And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; 2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, 3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

Hope you've learn something now? Please bring your tithe.

garyarnold:

The number ten symbolizes a whole item, and also completion.

From Christian Resources Today, “Ten : 10 - Biblical Meaning of Number: deals with completeness that happens in a divine order or completed during a course of time. There's nothing that is left wanting within the

No, that's number 7 . It's the number of completeness,fullness or perfection

Joagbaje:

Hope you've learn something now? Please bring your tithe.

from you, there is nothing to learn. Your post was not so clear, but i'll apologise for the false accusation.

Sorry, you are not in a position to reaceive my tithe.

@garyarnold,
please give rest to yourself. Our discussion on tithe has ended per my previous post to you. I have gotten what I needed.

However, Numbers 31 shows that the men of war of the Israelites won a battle and took the spoils. The prey was shared between the men that went to war and the congregation of Israel.  Num 31:26-27.
The prey were for the entire Israelites and from it, GOD commanded a levy from the half of the men of war and of the half of the rest of the congregation for a heave offering & for the Levites. Num 31:28-30.
Num 31 :49-54 shows where the officers over the men of war gave an oblation to GOD, of their freewill, of the spoils to God for atonement of their souls since they did not lose anyone in the battle.

verse 53 even says 'For the men of war had taken spoil, every man for himself'

So after the levy, the rest of the prey was THE BOOTY OF THE ISRAELITES.
Nowhere did it state the spoil was GODs.
(edited)


I feel sorry for you when you try to fit a scripture to fit your whims.
I am beginning to take your words with a pinch of salt.

[size=16pt][center]Jews Do Not Tithe Today
[/center][/size]
Thankfully, Jewish theologians know better than their Christian counterparts. They are well aware that only Levites have the right to receive tithe of the people. After all, the Jewish leaders have the Old Testament as their Scripture and that’s what it commands. And since there is no Temple in existence (and consequently no ordained Levites or Priests serving in a Temple), then a major factor in fulfilling the laws of tithing does not exist in our modern world.

In regard to this, it may be profitable to relate an event that happened to me over thirty–five years ago when I was just starting to study theology in college. A letter had been given to me for answering. It was from a woman who heard that modern Jews were not tithing. She wanted to know whether the information was true, and if so, why the Jews seemingly violated the plain laws of the Bible which spoke of tithing as a law to be obeyed?

Having read the letter, I began to share her concern. To resolve the matter I telephoned three rabbis in the Los Angeles area for their explanation. Much to my dismay, all three independently of each other informed me that no religious Jew should tithe today. I was startled at their replies. This appeared to be evidence that the Jews were so lax with their biblical interpretation that they were abandoning even the simple words of their own Scripture about the laws of tithing.

By the time I spoke with the last rabbi, my youthful indignation was beginning to emerge. But that rabbi then wisely began to show me my ignorance (not his) in the whole matter. First, he admitted that none of his congregation paid one penny of tithe that was demanded in the Old Testament. He then said: "If any member of my synagogue paid tithe in the scriptural manner, he would be disobeying the law of God—he would be sinning against God."

I was staggered by his answer. He went on to inform me that since the Bible demands that the tithe be paid to Levites, he said it would be wrong to pay it to anyone else. And further, because there is presently no official Levitical order of Priests ministering at a Temple in Jerusalem, this makes it illegal at this period to pay any biblical tithe. He went on to say, however, that the moment a Temple is rebuilt, with its altar in operation and with the priesthood officiating at that altar (and the Levites there to assist them), then every Jew who lives in the tithing zones mentioned in the Bible will be required to tithe according to the biblical commands.

This teaching was a revelation to me (as it may be to some of our readers), but the rabbi gave the proper biblical answers. To pay the biblical tithe at this time, without Levites and Priests in their regular ordained offices and doing service in the Temple, would be "sin" both to the giver and the receiver. The rabbi told me: "If we are to obey the law, we cannot pay tithe unless we pay it to the ones ordained by God to accept that tithe."

The rabbi explained that though he was the chief rabbi of his synagogue, he was not a Levite. He said he was descended from the tribe of Judah and was thereby not eligible to receive tithe. The same disqualification applied even to Christ Jesus while he was on earth since he was also reckoned as having come from the tribe of Judah. This same restriction was applicable to the activities of the apostle Peter (because he was as well from Judah) and it applied to the apostle Paul (because he was from the tribe of Benjamin). Neither Christ nor those apostles were Levites so they were all disqualified from receiving any part of the biblical tithe. It is just that simple.

And listen, if Christ, Peter and Paul did not use the biblical tithe for any of their work in teaching the Gospel, Christian ministers today should not use the biblical tithe either. The Jewish religious authorities are wise enough to read what the Word of God states about the tithe and, thankfully, they abide by it. But our Gentile preachers and priests care very little what the biblical texts actually state and go merrily on their way by devising their own laws of tithing which are different from those of the Bible.

The rabbi then gave me some information on the method that many Jews use today to secure adequate funds with which to operate their religious organizations. He went on to say that the activities of his synagogue were financially supported through the adoption of the "patron system" by its members. That is, families would buy seats in the synagogue for various prices each year. The rabbi mentioned that many of his congregation actually paid more than a tenth of their income to get better seats in the synagogue. This method for raising funds is perfectly proper (from the biblical point of view) if Jews wish to use it. This is because the money is paid to the synagogue and not to an ordained Levitical priesthood.

The final rabbi was correctly interpreting the teaching of the Holy Scripture. While many Christian ministers today teach that Christians may be in danger of missing salvation itself if they do not pay tithe to the church, Jewish rabbis know better than to say such a thing. They realize that it is biblically improper (actually, it is a blatant disobedience to the laws of the Bible) for anyone to pay or to receive the biblical tithe today. And any minister or ecclesiastical leader who uses the biblical tithe (or any one who pays to a minister the biblical tithe) is a sinner in the eyes of God.

Under the Mosaic law, the victor did NOT own the war spoils as shown in Numbers 31. God said how the spoils were to be divided. That proves, beyond any doubt, that what Abram did was NOT carried forward into the law. It had NOTHING to do with the law.

I stand by what I said, and you just proved it, Snowwy, with your comment. That is exactly what I said. The spoils were divided up. The victor didn't own all the spoils, but only a part of them. Quite different than what happened with Abram. I have proved my point, and you merely reinforced it with the actual scripture.

@garyarnold,
I see you are confused.
Were the Israelites not the VICTORS?

How else would each man of Israel have gotten their share if not for dividing it amongst themselves?

The Israelites won the battle and they shared the loot amongst themselves after giving a portion to GOD. The loot was theirs- the victors.

You have proved nothing, sorry, except your confusion.

@ diluminati

Thanks for the post. I have wasted too much time on the subject of tithe and hence, i stayed out of this conversation, just reading comments here but yours are biblical truth. I cant just understand people today believing lies from men of God who wants money to finance their denominations. There is a place for money in ministry and that is free will and cheerful giving. very simple.

I think Snowwy needs a lesson in reading.

I will post it here using a more simple reading and analysis:

Numbers 31:26-27 (TLB)
26“You and Eleazar the priest and the leaders of the tribes are to make a list of all the loot, including the people and animals;
27then divide it into two parts. Half of it is for the men who were in the battle, and the other half is to be given to the people of Israel.


Numbers 31:28 (TLB)
28But first, the Lord gets a share of all the captives, oxen, donkeys, and flocks kept by the army. His share is one out of every five hundred.

1/500 = 0.2% of the Army’s share

Numbers 31:29 (TLB)
29Give this share to Eleazar the priest to be presented to the Lord by the gesture of waving before the altar.


Numbers 31:30 (TLB)
30Also levy a 2 percent tribute of all the captives, flocks, and cattle that are given to the people of Israel. Present this to the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle, for it is the Lord’s portion.”

2% of the people’s share

Total war spoils given = 1.1%
2% to the Levites – taken from the people of Israel’s share
.2% to the Lord – taken from the Army’s share
equals 1.1% of the total went to The Lord

The victor was the ARMY.

Those following this blog should notice that the tithers either can't or won't DEFINE Christian tithing. Of course if they do, it would have to be a definition made up by man.

Some want to say you tithe on "increase." Well, if that is true, if during the year your house increases in value, do you tithe on that increase? How about if your family increases in size? Suppose you add on a room to your house increasing it's size? How about the increase in value of stock owned?

If you are going to tithe on "increase" do you reduce the increase by any decreases during the year?

If you say Christians should tithe on their income, is it gross income, net income, or some other type of adjusted income?

OR, do you say it is up to each individual to decide how to tithe, in which case I can reach in my pocket, find ten pennies, and if I give one, I have given a tenth of what I had; therefore, I tithed?

God was clear in His tithing definition and instructions. Man is wishywashy in his defining of tithing. Pastors don't even agree. Some say gross income while others say net income. Some say you tithe on your tax refund while others say you have already tithed on it. Some include gifts and inheritances and some don't. Some are so deceiving they actually ask, "Do you want a gross blessing or a net blessing?"

IS GOD THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION? If God wanted us to tithe today, don't you think He would have made the instructions clear? WHY all the confusion IF tithing is required, expected, or even recommended today?

@garyarnold,
who were the army? Where they not part of Israel? Where they not the children of Israel?

Gen 31:3 says:
'And Moses spake unto the people saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, '
continue reading verse 4 and 5.

It would be said that battle was between the children of Israel and the Midianites i.e. Israel vs Midian.
Israel won the battle over the Midianites.
So Israel was the victor! Is that so hard to understand.

I can see you are spoiling for an argument where there isn't and arguing just for the sake of it. I would refrain to be sucked in further. I rest my case with you.

@Snowwy,

Using todays customs and laws, I would agree. But my own research shows different during Biblical times.

The point I was making regarding Numbers 31 is that God only required 1.1% of the spoils, not a tenth. Therefore, what Abram did was NOT before the law AND THEN in the law.

To say that tithing was before the law and then in the law is at least misleading and deceiving. That would be comparing apples to oranges.

goshen360
link=topic=863724.msg10175734#msg10175734
date=1328992914:

@ diluminati
I cant just understand people today believing lies
from men of God who wants money to finance
their denominations. There is a place for money
in ministry and that is free will and cheerful
giving. very simple.

That's false accusation . Those who teach tithing
and practice tithing do it because they believe it
and are convinced of it. Do you know the
danger of trying to manipulate Gods people by a
lie. Will there be a heaven for such minister?

@newmi said, "Don't you think those who teach tithing and practice tithing do it because they believe it and are convinced of it."

I am pretty sure those who practice what they believe to be tithing do it because they believe they are doing what the Word teaches.

I am not convinced that those who teach tithing believe what they teach. Being a Money & Finance Minister, I have had meeting with many pastors. One admitted to me that he knows tithing ended at the cross, but he said he must teach it the way he does in order to bring in enough money to run the church. Two others listened to my arguments, then did their own research and came to the conclusion that tithing ended at the cross, but both of them continued teaching tithing, but both stopped using the robbing God threat.

I am aware of other pastors who have privately admitted they know that tithing ended at the cross, but they also say if they don't teach it, they won't bring in enough money to keep the church going.

Based on just my own experience, I draw the conclusion there are many pastors who are dishonest.

@ newmi,

Do you know the
danger of trying to manipulate Gods people by a
lie. Will there be a heaven for such minister?

ARE YOU THREATENING?

Those who teach tithing
and practice tithing do it because they believe it
and are convinced of it

KINDLY EXPLAIN WHAT PRINCIPLE YOU BELIEVED ON TITHING, IS IT BASED ON BIBLE?

Did the apostles ever stop giving first fruits and tithes while they were still walking on the face of the earth, while the Temple was still standing, and while the priests and Levites were still around?

@amor4ce - ONLY Israelite farmers with crops and animals tithed. The Jews continued to tithe to the Levitical priesthood up until the Temple was destroyed in 70AD. The gentiles never tithed.