raumdeuter:


WHy does Pep winning at Barcelona not make him special

That's because any good or average team would've won UCL with Barca of recent years. Enrique has proven that and he's still proving it. Barca team is an exceptional team.

raumdeuter:


oving around means you would have to study another set of players and build your team which someone who stays at one club doesnt need to deal with

This also applies to a coach that stays in one club because he'll have to rebuild his team at least every 5 - 7 years. Teams needs to be rebuilt and it also takes time to rebuild to top level.

tess1:


That's because any good or average team would've won UCL with Barca of recent years. Enrique has proven that and he's still proving it. Barca team is an exceptional team.

Why didn't Tata and Tito win it?

nyabinghi:
Aside early 90's you guys should tell us how many teams won consecutive ucl titles. Fergie's record in europe isn't the best but it is still one of the best. Mourinho has 2 ucl in over 14 years of mgt, if he stays in chelsea for the next 12 years the probability of him winning it would be less than 0.08. If ancelotti had stayed in psg, he won't win ucl in 15 years so fergie has a good record in ucl, let us check his win rate wrt other coaches, madrid, ac milan, ajax had better players in those period.

We dont need him to win consecutively but win more than 2 in a 20+yrs on the same job

Ancelotti won 2 in AC Milan where he spent 8yrs

Pep won 2 in barca where he spent just 4yrs

None of them won consecutively

So if you are staying in one club for long you should be winning more than Fergie did

Odunharry:

which coach did Fergie defeated in 1999 Ucl final?

The only game I remember him defeating Hizfeld while Ottmar returned the favour 4 games

raumdeuter:


Since its the teams that make a league then how is foreigners in a team different from foreigners in a league

In those Italian teams of the early 90 their teams are mainly Italians because there is a limit on the number of Italians you can field

E.g Lets take 1991 very early in the 90's
In 1991 Leed won the English league they had 8 foreigners,
AC Milan won Serie A they had just 3 foreigners,
Barcelona won La Liga had 4 foreigners,
Stuttgart won the Bundesliga they had 3 foreigners

So tell me how it was the English league that was particularly not welcoming to foreigners

The foreign players in Leeds, were they not from Scotland, Wales and Ireland, apart from may be Cantona?

I remember very well English teams were angry with Eufa for counting players from other parts of United Kingdom as foreigners, so they couldn't use all their players in Europe.

English FA and authorities didn't see players from other parts of UK as foreigners as such, but work permit was made very difficult from players from other parts of the world, particularly outside Europe. All these made the league to be substandard and restricted the coaches in English league.

tess1:


That's because any good or average team would've won UCL with Barca of recent years. Enrique has proven that and he's still proving it. Barca team is an exceptional team.

Barca had Tito Villanova, they had Tata Martino none of them won with Barcelona So find another talk

ollah1:


Why didn't Tata and Tito win it?

I have answered this question earlier. You like going back and forth.

Where did Tata come from? Tito had only one one season wish was riddled with cancer.

ollah1:


What year was that?

google.com

raumdeuter:


Barca had Tito Villanova, they had Tata Martino none of them won with Barcelona So find another talk

I've answered that. What about Enrique? Why not talk about him? Pep was a rookie coach when he won it first time. Why didn't he do the same with Bayern as the defending champion?

elampiro:


The foreign players in Leeds, were they not from Scotland, Wales and Ireland, apart from may be Cantona?

I remember very well English teams were angry with Eufa for counting players from other parts of United Kingdom as foreigners, so they couldn't use all their players in Europe.

English FA and authorities didn't see players from other parts of UK as foreigners as such, but work permit was made very difficult from players from other parts of the world, particularly outside Europe. All these made the league to be substandard and restricted the coaches in English league.

Are Scotland, Wales and ireland not separate countries? Dont they have separate representative in the Champions League or are they the same country? Dont they go to Euro cup or World cup differently?

Leeds had players from Scotland, Wales, Ireland, Northern ireland, France and Malta

AC Milan too aside from Italian players only had players from Holland

raumdeuter, I will like you to see this.




Did Bosman help Manchester United win the Champions League?
British clubs pre-Bosman found themselves at a huge disadvantage in European competitions, because Uefa decreed that Welsh and Scottish players counted as foreigners under their "three-plus-two" rule.
That meant that United, for example, had to make wholesale changes to their normal line-up when playing in Europe - most memorably when Alex Ferguson brought English goalkeeper Gary Walsh in for the Danish Peter Schmeichel in the 4-0 thrashing by Barcelona in 1994-5.
When clubs were suddenly freed to play all the EU players they wanted, Sir Alex Ferguson was at last able to play his first-choice XI in Europe.
Only five of the 13 players who featured in United's 1999 Champions League final win over Bayern Munich were English.
Before the Bosman ruling, that team could never have set foot on the pitch.


..............

tess1:


I've answered that. What about Enrique? Why not talk about him? Pep was a rookie coach when he won it first time. Why didn't he do the same with Bayern as the defending champion?

Why should Pep win it with Bayern, Is he the only one playing? He didnt win with bayern because he met a stronger coach called Ancelotti

What do you want us to say about Enrique?

ollah1:


What year was that?

My friend stop asking questions and use ur......

elampiro:
raumdeuter, I will like you to see this.




Did Bosman help Manchester United win the Champions League?
British clubs pre-Bosman found themselves at a huge disadvantage in European competitions, because Uefa decreed that Welsh and Scottish players counted as foreigners under their "three-plus-two" rule.
That meant that United, for example, had to make wholesale changes to their normal line-up when playing in Europe - most memorably when Alex Ferguson brought English goalkeeper Gary Walsh in for the Danish Peter Schmeichel in the 4-0 thrashing by Barcelona in 1994-5.
When clubs were suddenly freed to play all the EU players they wanted, Sir Alex Ferguson was at last able to play his first-choice XI in Europe.
Only five of the 13 players who featured in United's 1999 Champions League final win over Bayern Munich were English.
Before the Bosman ruling, that team could never have set foot on the pitch.


..............

Elamps. What does this mean?

UEFA says every team should use a maximum of 3 foreigners. So why didnt Man Utd use their own non UK foreigners?. This would have made sense if Others in Europe were using more than 3 foreigners and only English teams couldnt use that more than 3

UEFA say use only 3. Man utd choose their 3 foreigners, AC Milan or barca chose theirs. Man utd lost and you come back to say its because they didnt allow Man Utd use 7 foreigners?

raumdeuter:


Are Scotland, Wales and ireland not separate countries? Dont they have separate representative in the Champions League or are they the same country?

Leeds had players from Scotland, Wales, Ireland, Northern ireland, France and Malta

AC Milan too aside from Italian players only had players from Holland

We are getting somewhere.

I don't know much of the Labour laws in UK or England. But it looks like there was a free movement of players withing the UK which meant English teams had like nearly half of their players from other parts of UK.

So take for example, the Leeds team that won the league in 1991/1992 season, when they had to play in Europe, they will be forced to select only 2 out of about 8 players from Wales and Scotland. Plus Cantona the required three is complete. The rest first team members would not be qualified to be even on the bench in Champion League games.

These were the disadvantages SAF faced.

raumdeuter:


Why should Pep win it with Bayern, Is he the only one playing? He didnt win with bayern because he met a stronger coach called Ancelotti

What do you want us to say about Enrique?

And what happened last season? He also met a stronger coach in Enrique.

Like i said, what Pep did with Barca wasn't special because rookie Enrique has done it and he's still doing it.

elampiro:


Did you know by how many goals we dismissed AC Milan that season? Without Rafael's red card and Rooney's injury we would have won it. We were comfortable even against Bayern until Rooney started limping. We had Valencia, Nani, Vidic, Ferdinand who were playing some real world class football at the time.

That Yeye Ac milan Coached by Leonardo abi Wetin be hin name?? That side wasn't better than Spartak Moscow Abeg.

Inter milan had Julio Cesar; best goalie in the world ( he was 1st choice & not Toldo - My bad)

............... Julio Cesar..............

Maicon.....Samuel......Lucio........Chivu

........... Thiago Motta.....Cambiasso

....Pandev...............Sneijder...................

.........................Eto.......Milito..........

Didn't you watch the semi final 2nd leg vs Barca?? This team eliminated Barca despite playing the majority of that match with 10 men....Messi was totally useless throughout.

In the final vs Bayern, it was a typical Mourihno-esque performance - Bayern did the playing while Inter picked their moments & it worked perfectly.

I've never been a fan of bus-packing but mehn, the efficient way the team went about it was excellent.

raumdeuter bring hitzfield record both as player and coach and compare with SAF..

raumdeuter:


Elamps. What does this mean?

UEFA says every team should use a maximum of 3 foreigners. So why didnt Man Utd use their own non UK foreigners?. This would have made sense if Others in Europe were using more than 3 foreigners and only English teams couldnt use that more than 3

UEFA say use only 3. Man utd choose their 3 foreigners, AC Milan or barca chose theirs. Man utd lost and you come back to say its because they didnt allow Man Utd use 7 foreigners?

So United would use there non UK foreigners, then forced to compulsorily dropped first team members who came from Wales, Scotland and Ireland. How could the team play with a good rhythm when the first team had been distorted?

Take for instance, you are forced to drop Irwin and Giggs because you already have chosen other three foreigners.

Where's that ollah that said SAF won the league titles because of free penalties referees were dashing his team? Man Utd didn't even win the league in the season when Man Utd topped the table.

Dadehmola:


That Yeye Ac milan Coached by Leonardo abi Wetin be hin name?? That side wasn't better than Spartak Moscow Abeg.

Inter milan had Julio Cesar; best goalie in the world ( he was 1st choice & not Toldo - My bad)

............... Julio Cesar..............

Maicon.....Samuel......Lucio........Chivu

Thiago Motta.....Cambiasso

....Pandev...............Sneijder...................

.........................Eto.......Milito..........

Didn't you watch the semi final 2nd leg vs Barca?? This team eliminated Barca despite playing the majority of that match with 10 men....Messi was totally useless throughout.

In the final vs Bayern, it was a typical Mourihno-esque performance - Bayern did the playing while Inter picked their moments & it worked perfectly.

I've never been a fan of bus-packing but mehn, the efficient way the team went about it was excellent.

They parked the bus against Barca na.

United had a very swift transition of the ball from defence to attack. We were the only ones who could have easily beaten them. The Inter Milan team we beat a year before was almost as strong. They had Ibrahimovic at the time. They were feared until they met us.

We were so good that year 2010 that we were going to win in Germany then injury played it's part. They were still lucky the cross bar prevented Vidic rocket header from going in. Soon after they scored us.

cont...

elampiro:


They parked the bus against Barca na.

United had a very swift transition of the ball from defence to attack. We were the only ones who could have easily beaten them. The Inter Milan team we beat a year before was almost as strong. They had Ibrahimovic at the time. They were feared until they met us.

We were so good that year 2010 that we were going to win in Germany then injury played it's part. They were still lucky the cross bar prevented Vidic rocket header from going in. Soon after they scored us.

If not for the red, I'm 70% sure we will defeat Inter again after what we did the previous year

elampiro:


We are getting somewhere.

I don't know much of the Labour laws in UK or England. But it looks like there was a free movement of players withing the UK which meant English teams had like nearly half of their players from other parts of UK.

So take for example, the Leeds team that won the league in 1991/1992 season, when they had to play in Europe, they will be forced to select only 2 out of about 8 players from Wales and Scotland. Plus Cantona the required three is complete. The rest first team members would not be qualified to be even on the bench in Champion League games.

These were the disadvantages SAF faced.

How are these disadvantages? UEFA stated it before the season that you can only use a maximum of 3 foreigners They know Wales, Ireland and Scotland are foreigners because they cannot play for the English National Team.

Giggs cant play for England etc.

Other European teams also had the 3 foreigner rule. Some Italian teams too had more than 3 foreigners but when they get to Europe they are forced to drop others and field just 3.

So how was it a disadvantage

tess1:


And what happened last season? He also met a stronger coach in Enrique.

Like i said, what Pep did with Barca wasn't special because rookie Enrique has done it and he's still doing it.

So if another coach wins the CL with Man Utd in the future we can also say what ferguson did wasnt special because new coach also did it

Odunharry:
which coach did Fergie defeated in 1999 Ucl final?

High Chief Onigbinde

Odunharry:
raumdeuter bring hitzfield record both as player and coach and compare with SAF..

How does record as a player affect their coaching ability

Okay if you want to know Hitzfeld scored 169 goals as a player won 2 swiss leagues won a Swiss cup

As a manager
3 Swiss cup
2 swiss league

7 Bundesliga titles
3 DFB Pokal
4 DFB Liga Pokal
2 Champions league
1 Intercontental cup

raumdeuter:


So if another coach wins the CL with Man Utd in the future we can also say what ferguson did wasnt special because new coach also did it

Barce is an exceptional team. How many rookie coaches have won the UCL in their first season in Champions league as a coach?

elampiro:


So United would use there non UK foreigners, then forced to compulsorily dropped first team members who came from Wales, Scotland and Ireland. How could the team play with a good rhythm when the first team had been distorted?

Take for instance, you are forced to drop Irwin and Giggs because you already have chosen other three foreigners.

Irwin and Giggs are foreigners. If you dont drop them then you would be using 5 foreigners

Irwin and Giggs dont play for England National team so why shouldnt they be foreigners?

UEFA made it clear before competition that only 3 foreigners are allowed simple

tess1:


Barce is an exceptional team. How many rookie coaches have won the UCL in their first season in Champions league as a coach?

Pep Guardiola

raumdeuter:



How are these disadvantages? UEFA stated it before the season that you can only use a maximum of 3 foreigners They know Wales, Ireland and Scotland are foreigners because they cannot play for the English National Team.

Giggs cant play for England etc.

Other European teams also had the 3 foreigner rule. Some Italian teams too had more than 3 foreigners but when they get to Europe they are forced to drop others and field just 3.

So how was it a disadvantage

It's a disadvantage because it was only English teams who had first team regular players who were eligible to play Premier League but ineligible to all play in European matches.