where is dumb stool sorry daycpool? have the little fact I have given cause you to run into hidding?

kola oloye:

Kudos to Alhaji Olabowale and prophet David.Keep up the good works.

Olabowale has re incarnated to nopuqeater whilst David remains David

kola oloye:

Well said because Jehovah did not write any of them.
God is too perfect to have inspired people to write anything anyhow but don't forget that
JESUS is LORD,no controversy.

The Muslims claims quran was written by God

toba:

Kudos to Alhaji Olabowale and prophet David.Keep up the good works.

Quote from: omobadan on October 06, 2010, 01:41 AM
I'm a neutral too o! But I think both the Bible and the Quran are inconsistent!
Well said because Jehovah did not write any of them.
God is too perfect to have inspired people to write anything anyhow but don't forget that
JESUS is LORD,no controversy.

The Muslims claims quran was written by God

But you agree that Jehovah did not inspire the Bible. Which indicates That yours is faith by Despiration, as for Kola How can you accept that the same book(the bible) that Jehova did not inspire, Meaning any slowpoke could have wrote the Book in a state of drunkenness or Outright fabrication is what you use to say Jesus is Lord, Your case deserves pity no doubt.

@OP c. sura 6 :38 says that all animals and flying beings form communities, like humans. I would like to ask whether this includes spiders, where in some species the female eats the male after mating has taken place. Is that a community like ours?

You are quite Pathetic Mr. OP as any with common sense knows the verse is not saying animals and Human behaves alike rather it says Just as Human tend to Congregate Animal also come together. That is what it means by Community.

In sura 7 :124 we find Pharoah admonishing his sorcerers because they believe in the superiority of Moses's power over theirs. Pharoah threatens them with cutting off their hands and feet on opposite sides, and then says they will all die on the cross. But their were no crosses in those days. Crucifixion was first practised by the Phoenicians and the Carthaginians and then borrowed extensively by the Romans close to the time of Christ, 1700 years after Pharaoh!

Now how do you know where the crucifixion comes from we need proof not your words, further more we read the following:

As usual no documentation is provided to substantiate the missionaries claim – surprisingly, even the usual barrage of internet citations are not present. Such a situation is quite understandable because this statement is factually incorrect so one would search in vain for any supporting references. It is clear the missionaries have failed to take into account those periods of history preceding the Romans. Such restricted reading has meant they are not fully aware of the genesis of crucifixion and the importance and meaning that are attached to certain words that aim to define crucifixion. So what does the Qur'an have to say about crucifixion? Certain parts of the Qur'an talk about crucifixion as a method of punishment in ancient Egypt during the time of Joseph and Moses. In the story of Joseph, Joseph interprets the dream of his companion in the prison and says:
O my two companions of the prison! As to one of you, he will pour out the wine for his lord to drink: and as for the other, he will be crucified, and the birds will eat from his head. Thus is the case judged concerning which you both did enquire. [Qur'an 12:41]

As for the mention of crucifixion in the time of Moses, when the Pharaoh's magicians believed in the message of Moses, the Pharaoh threatened them by saying:

Be sure I will cut off your hands and your feet on apposite sides, and I will cause you all to die on the cross. [Qur'an 7:124]

(Pharaoh) said: Ye put your faith in him before I give you leave. Lo! he doubtless is your chief who taught you magic! But verily ye shall come to know. Verily I will cut off your hands and your feet alternately, and verily I will crucify you every one. [Qur'an 26:49]

(Pharaoh) said: "Believe ye in Him before I give you permission? Surely this must be your leader, who has taught you magic! be sure I will cut off your hands and feet on opposite sides, and I will have you crucified on trunks of palm-trees: so shall ye know for certain, which of us can give the more severe and the more lasting punishment!" [Qur'an 20:71]

The Qur'an also supplies a very important piece of information concerning the Pharaoh. The Pharaoh is addressed as the Lord of the Stakes.

Before them (were many who) rejected apostles,- the people of Noah, and ‘Ad, and Pharaoh, the Lord of Stakes, [Qur'an 38:12]

Seest thou not how thy Lord dealt with the ‘Ad (people),-Of the (city of) Iram, with lofty pillars, The like of which were not produced in (all) the land? And with the Thamud (people), who cut out (huge) rocks in the valley? And with Pharaoh, Lord of Stakes? (All) these transgressed beyond bounds in the lands, And heaped therein mischief (on mischief). [Qur'an 89:6-12]

2. What Does The Arabic Root Ṣ-L-B Mean?

Any discussion regarding crucifixion in ancient Egypt mentioned in the Qur'an must begin with an analysis of the Arabic word used to describe it. The word used to describe crucifixion in the story of Joseph in 21:41 is yuṣlabu and in the story of Moses, ṣallibannakum is used in 7:124, 26:49 and 20:71. They both derive from the root word Ṣ-L-B. Below is a selection of the relevant passages from Lisān Al-ʿArab of Ibn Manzur concerning the root ṣād-lām-bā' that is frequently misunderstood to mean "crucify". We will see that such an understanding is a quick shortcut and that this root is more complex than the average Arabic speaker knows.

صلب: الصُّلْبُ والصُّلَّبُ: عَظْمٌ من لَدُنِ الكاهِل إِلى العَجْب، والجمع أَصْلُب وأَصْلاب وصِلَبَةٌ؛ أَنشد ثعلب

أَما تَرَيْني، اليَوْمَ، شَيْخاً أَشْيَبَا،* إِذا نَهَضْتُ أَتَشَكَّى الأَصْلُبا

ṣād-lām-bā': ṣalb and ṣallab refer to a bone from the upper body to the waist [i.e., the backbone], its plural is aṣlub and aṣlāb and ṣilabah. Thaʿlab said in his poetry:

Do you see me today an old grown up man When I stand up, I suffer from my back [Arabic: aṣlub].

والصُّلْب من الظَّهْر، وكُلُّ شيء من الظَّهْر فيه فَقَارٌ فذلك الصُّلْب؛ والصَّلَبُ، بالتحريك، لغة فيه؛

And ṣalb refers to the back, and any part of the back having vertebraes is called ṣalb; ṣalab with a vowel is another variant.

والصَّلابَةُ: ضدُّ اللِّين صَلُبَ الشيءُ صَلابَـةً فهو صَلِـيبٌ وصُلْب وصُلَّب وصلب أَي شديد. ورجل صُلَّبٌ: مثل القُلَّبِ والـحُوَّل، ورجل صُلْبٌ وصَلِـيبٌ : ذو صلابة؛ وقد صَلُب، وأَرض صُلْبَة، والجمع صِلَبَة. ويقال: تَصَلَّبَ فلان أَي تَشَدَّدَ. وقولهم في الراعي: صُلْبُ العَصا وصَلِـيبُ العَصا، إِنما يَرَوْنَ أَنه يَعْنُفُ بالإِبل؛

And ṣalābah is the opposite of softness [Arabic: līn]. We say of something that it has ṣaluba [i.e., hardened/stiffened], ṣalābatan [i.e., hardness/stiffness] and that it is ṣalīb and ṣulb and ṣullab meaning that it is hard. And we say of a man that he is ṣullab [i.e., hard] on the same pattern as qullab and ḥuwwal and we say of him that he is ṣulb [i.e., hard] and ṣalīb [i.e., hard] and that he shows ṣalābah [i.e., hardness] and that he has ṣaluba [i.e., hardened] and we qualify a land of ṣulbah [i.e., hard/rocky]. And it is said: someone ta ṣallaba meaning that he grew severe/inflexible. They also qualify a sheperd of ṣulb ul-ʿasā [i.e., having a hard staff] and ṣalīb ul-ʿasā when they think he is violent with the camels [in other words, the sheperd is so qualified when he hits his camels hard].

والنِّيقُ: أَرْفَعُ مَوْضِـعٍ في الجَبَل وصَلَبَ العِظامَ يَصْلُبُها صَلْباً واصْطَلَبَها: جَمَعَها وطَبَخَها واسْتَخْرَجَ وَدَكَها لِـيُؤْتَدَم به، وهو الاصْطِلابُ، وكذلك إِذا شَوَى اللَّحْمَ : فأَسالَه؛ قال الكُمَيْتُ الأَسَدِيّ

واحْتَلّ بَرْكُ الشِّـتاءِ مَنْزِلَه، * وباتَ شَيْخُ العِـيالِ يَصْطَلِبُ

And we say that someone ṣalaba some bones yaṣlubuhā ṣalban and he iṣtalaba the bones meaning that he collected the bones, cooked them and extracted their grease or oily matter [i.e., wadak] to be used as food, and this act is called iṣtilāb. Also when you grill some meat so that it melts. Al-Kumayt al-Asadī said:

The beginning of the cold came and the old man cooked/melted [meat].

وفي الحديث: أَنه لـمَّا قَدِمَ مَكَّةَ أَتاه أَصحابُ الصُّلُب؛ قيل: هم الذين يَجْمَعُون العِظام إِذا أُخِذَت عنها لُحومُها فيَطْبُخونها بالماءِ، فإِذا خرج الدَّسَمُ منها جمعوه وائْتَدَمُوا به. يقال اصْطَلَبَ فلانٌ العِظام إِذا فَعَل بها ذلك. والصُّلُبُ جمع صَليب، والصَّلِـيبُ: الوَدَكُز والصَّلِـيبُ والصَّلَبُ: الصديد الذي يَسيلُ من الميت. والصَّلْبُ: مصدر صَلَبَه يَصْلُبه صَلْباً، وأَصله من الصَّلِـيب وهو: الوَدَك. وفي حديث عليّ: أَنه اسْتُفْتِـيَ في استعمال صَلِـيبِ الـمَوْتَى في الدِّلاءِ والسُّفُن، فَـأَبـى عليهم، وبه سُمِّي الـمَصْلُوب لما يَسِـيلُ من وَدَكه. والصَّلْبُ، هذه القِتْلة المعروفة، مشتق من ذلك، لأَن وَدَكه وصديده يَسِـيل. وقد صَلَبه يَصْلِـبُه صَلْباً، وصَلَّبه، شُدِّدَ للتكثي وفي التنزيل العزيز: وما قَتَلُوه وما صَلَبُوه. وفيه: ولأُصَلِّـبَنَّكم في جُذُوعِ النَّخْلِ؛ أَي على جُذُوعِ النخل. والصَّلِـيبُ: الـمَصْلُوبُ. والصَّليب الذي يتخذه النصارى على ذلك الشَّكْل.

And in the ḥadīth: "When he came to Makkah, the makers of ṣalub came to him. It was said that they are the ones who collect bones after meat was removed and cook them in water. When the fat appears they collect it and ate it. We say that someone iṣtalaba the bones when he does so with the bones. As for ṣalub, it is the plural of ṣalīb which means wadak." Ṣalīb and ṣalab also refer to the pus that leaks from the dead. Ṣalb is the infinitive form of ṣalab [past form], yaṣlubu [present form], it is derived from ṣalīb which is the wadak. And in the ḥadīth of ʿAlī, he was asked about the use of the ṣalīb of the dead for crafting [dilā'] and boats and he forbade it. And so was called the "crucified" because of the [wadak] that leaks from him. And ṣalb is that famous death [i.e., crucifixion] which is derived from the same origin because the wadak of the dead and his ichor leaks. The verb is ṣalaba [past form], yaṣlubu [present form], ṣalban [infinitive form], ṣallaba is the exagerated form implying multiplicity. And in the Holy Revelation [i.e., the Qur'an]: wa mā qatalūhu wa mā ṣalabūhu ["they did not kill him or they crucified him"]. There is also: wa la'u ṣallibannakum fī judhūʿ in-nakhl meaning "on the trunks of palm trees". Ṣalīb also refers to maṣlūb, "the crucified". Ṣalīb is what the Christians take [as a symbol] of that form.

From the above discussion, the following inferences can be deduced.

1. The root word Ṣ-L-B derives from bone, more specifically the backbone.

2. Ṣ-L-B is also used to denote hardness in a true as well as a metaphoric sense.

3. Cooking the bones and extracting the greasy or fatty matter from it (wadak) - this action is called iṣtalaba, a word which comes from the root Ṣ-L-B.

4. More importantly, ṣalb, commonly translated as "crucifixion", comes from the root Ṣ-L-B and is derived from it because the wadak of the dead and his ichor (i.e., thin watery or blood-tinged discharge) leaks. Ibn Manzur in his Lisān Al-ʿArab gives two examples of its usage from the Qur'an, one referring to the time of Jesus and the other to the time of Moses, viz., Qur'an 4:157, wa mā qatalūhu wa mā ṣalabūhu ["they did not kill him or they crucified him"] and Qur'an 20:71, wa la'u ṣallibannakum fī judhūʿ in-nakhl ["I will have you crucified on trunks of palm-trees"], respectively.

5. he Christian missionaries claimed that the "Arabic word for crucifixion used in the Qur'an refers to a cross-shaped instrument of execution" without any attempt to look into the etymological dictionaries. Edward Lane's comprehensive An Arabic-English Lexicon has a three-page long discussion of the root word Ṣ-L-B, most of it is concentrated on the usage to mean "hard", "firm", etc. While dealing with the issue of crucifixion, Lane says: "[He crucified him;] he put him to death in a certain well-known manner, because the oily matter, and the ichor mixed with blood, of the person so put to death flows."[1] Similar discussion, albeit a lot less comprehensive than Lane's Lexicon, is also to be found in Hans - Wehr Dictionary Of Modern Written Arabic and in dictionaries devoted to the usage of Ṣ-L-B in the Qur'an.[2] We can now conclude that the root word Ṣ-L-B has neither any connotations of a cross nor of the shape of a cross; rather these two are derived meanings. As we have seen, Ṣ-L-B is used to denote hardness or stiffness and/or leaking oily matter from the body when crucified or impaled.

6. In order to distract the readers from the discussion of the root word Ṣ-L-B, the missionaries quote Arthur Jeffery who alleged that the root Ṣ-L-B "cannot be explained from Arabic" and has its ultimate origins from either Persian or Ethiopic.[3] The missionaries misconstrue Jeffery's statement to mean that "this term is not Arabic" even though Jeffery cites its usage in the pre-Islamic Arabic poetry of al-Nābigha and ʿAdi b. Zaid! With a narrow focus on some of the derived meanings of Ṣ-L-B which are "to crucify" or "cross", the missionaries claim that the Arabic term used in the Qur'an refers "clearly to a geometric cross and not a pole, a stake, or a tree". Had there been a genuine interest to establish the levels of meaning associated with the root Ṣ-L-B recourse would have been made to scholarly classical Arabic lexicons which discuss in detail the etymology of the root Ṣ-L-B. Calling the root Ṣ-L-B "foreign" is a mere distraction and as we have discussed, the root Ṣ-L-B has no connotations of a cross, a geometric cross, a pole, a stake or a tree.

In summary, the mention of crucifixion in the Qur'an comes from the root Ṣ-L-B and it has no connotations of a cross or its shape. Rather it indicates any method of execution which makes the body stiffened or hardened (as any movement would cause excruciating pain) and results in leaking of bodily fluids. Therefore, crucifixion by impalement and other forms of crucifixion are included here without making any distinction between them.

The Qur'anic usage originating from the root Ṣ-L-B appears to find common ground with what modern studies suggest about crucifixion in antiquity. It is almost always true that the word "crucifixion" brings a picture of the cross in the human mind. However, in antiquity people were "suspended", "impaled" and "crucified". The terms used to describe these English words were hardly distinguishable. This was pointed out by David Chapman in his recent study of crucifixion in antiquity. He says:

, in studying the ancient world the scholar is wise not to differentiate too rigidly the categories of "crucifixion," "impalement," and "suspension" (as if these were clearly to be distinguished in every instance). Hence any study of crucifixion conceptions in antiquity must grapple with the broader context of the wide variety of penal suspension of human beings.[4]

Furthermore, he says that in the past, "crucifixion" and "suspension" were not perceived by people in antiquity as wholly different spheres of punishment. Chapman adds that crucifixion "on a cross was simply one specific form within the broader category of human bodily suspension".[5] Keeping this in mind, let us look at some of the definitions offered for crucifixion and cross in modern times.

@op sura 17 :1 says Muhammad went to the "farthest Mosque" during his journey by night (the Mi'raj), which Muslims explain was the Dome of the Rock mosque, in Jerusalem. But there was no mosque in Jerusalem during the life of Muhammad, and the Dome of the Rock was not built until 690 C.E., by the Amir 'Abd al Malik, a full 58 years after Muhammad's death! There was not even a temple in existence at that time. The temple of Jerusalem had been destroyed by Titus 570 years before this vision. So what was this mosque Muhammad supposedly saw?

Your shallow understanding of everything is the reason why you shamelessly showed your Ignorance, as the word Masjid Literally means place of Prostration, and Pity you Christians do not Prostrate as your Lord?! Jesus Christ who followed Jewish Customs of Prostrating when worshiping God.

@Op: I4i: Man's Greatness
Sura 4 :59 states,"Greater surely than the creation of man is the creation of the heavens and the earth; but most men know it not." This implies that greatness is only measured by size; that the mere vastness of the physical universe make it greater than man, an argument which would make a football of immensely greater value than the largest diamond. Our scripture tells us that Man's greatness lies not in his size, but in his relationship with God, that he is made in God's image, a claim which no other animate or inanimate object can make.

This is the actual reading of the verse:

004.059
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.

Now DasyLiar do really know what you were doing or where u on sayo when you posted this thread oh! I forgot you are actually deaf and dumb, since the truth came to the fore front.


@OpI4ii: Seven Earths
Sura 65 :12 reads, "It is God who hath created seven heavens and as many earths." We would love to know where the other six earths are. If these refer to the planets in our solar system, then they are short by two (and now possibly three).

Again you showed your highly limited Intellect as the verse is talking of the Universe and you said were is remaining Earths? poor you, no wonder the Catholics burnt Bruno Just because he said there are other Planets, and again The universe is wide and man is yet to Transverse it in its entirety, but we did expect you to understand anything.

@OpThe wind was subject to Solomon, travelling a month's journey both in the morning and in the evening (though the wisdom of its timing is somehow lost in translation) (sura 3 :11 ; 21 :81).

The real surah 3:11
003.011
YUSUFALI: (Their plight will be) no better than that of the people of Pharaoh, and their predecessors: They denied our Signs, and Allah called them to account for their sins. For Allah is strict in punishment.

It seems your Pastor Just woke you up one morning and started dishing Lies as all the verse you are quoting are not available or wrong, too bad some people are Just to gullible.

how many times do i have to tell this christians that i am not Olabowale?

if you fuse Yahweh and Jesus together, to fuse Olabowale and me together is worse.

Dude u r just sad . .... Dats so ancient .. . Such a cliche .... U have got to get a life .. I mean seriously asap ppl have been trying to sabotage dis religion since thy kingdom come .. Wake up man its still d fastest growing religion ppl r still reverting. I mean seriously I can get u help I know sm1 Amman hook u up haven't u learned Any fng frm ur predecessors deny trd n failed woefully such is d shame .. Oh sight it won't stop d next lunatic buh den a round of applause for u effort I know u worked really hard on it - ur whole life- u trd ma child brings tears to ma eyes ... Am so proud of u now be a good boy n don't go looking for trouble no more .. Mummy loves u -I think.m

Dude u r just sad . .... Dats so ancient .. . Such a cliche .... U have got to get a life .. I mean seriously asap ppl have been trying to sabotage dis religion since thy kingdom come .. Wake up man its still d fastest growing religion ppl r still reverting. I mean seriously I can get u help I know sm1 Amman hook u up haven't u learned Any fng frm ur predecessors deny trd n failed woefully such is d shame .. Oh sight it won't stop d next lunatic buh den a round of applause for u effort I know u worked really hard on it - ur whole life- u trd ma child brings tears to ma eyes ... Am so proud of u now be a good boy n don't go looking for trouble no more[color=#550000][/color] .. Mummy loves u -I think.m

tho.....bible song of solomon 5:16 mentioned Muhammad