maclatunji


one day you'll wake up from your dream.

i'm not interested in debating this with you but i do have an issue with the way you're attacking the op.


that's uncalled for and totally unnecessary.


i will leave you to your delusions since i have no personal stake in whatever you say is bugging you about the thread. Who you marry or want to marry, is not my business.

My focus is the black community and neither am i concerned with those who say they do not see a problem. That doesnt mean others must not see the problem.

if you feel your destiny lies outside these basic issues, then by all means follow your heart wherever it takes you- but stop attacking others who are grounded in the reality of life.

dare2think:

Actually, there are several factors that may induce men in general to go for fairer ladies.
I was helping someone out with her psycology and media essay about the black male body and its portrayal over the past decades, including the colonial era.

The role of the media played a big role the defining the image of black people as in-organized and brute as opposed to the white people, especially white women as pure, innocent and intelligent.

Take for example the picture below;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/'Destroy_this_mad_brute'_WWI_propaganda_poster_(US_version).jpg/170px-'Destroy_this_mad_brute'_WWI_propaganda_poster_(US_version).jpg

It portrays an innocent white, helpless woman at the mercy of a brute 'black' animal

Now compare the physique and mannerism depicted of the black animal to that of Lebron James below;

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4006/4201732155_f86c996051_o.jpg

Notice the 'innocent', 'pure' image of the white lady.

I agree with the role of the media on our psyche But the direct effect it has in this case I cant fathom.

dayokanu:

Deols,

Have you noticed that Black women are generally fairer than men?

Even among siblings females are usually fairer than male


So if you even want to marry your own twin sister, you would still be accused of marrying a woman fairer than you

true. But the op's concern does go beyond that.

tpia@:
maclatunji


one day you'll wake up from your dream.

i'm not interested in debating this with you but i do have an issue with the way you're attacking the op.


that's uncalled for and totally unnecessary.


i will leave you to your delusions since i have no personal stake in whatever you say is bugging you about the thread. Who you marry or want to marry, is not my business.

My focus is the black community and neither am i concerned with those who say they do not see a problem. That doesnt mean others must not see the problem.

if you feel your destiny lies outside these basic issues, then by all means follow your heart wherever it takes you- but stop attacking others who are grounded in the reality of life.

Huh?

I am not attacking OP. I think her attempt at 'opening the eyes of the Black man' is kind-of cute. Is it a Nigerian thing to take disagreeing with you to mean not liking you?

Get this straight from me, even if I love someone, that will not prevent me from destroying their points or logic when we debate an issue. Let us push our intellects a little bit. That is not hating but healthy debate.

Tpia, I am begging you to show me this reality of life. Let me learn from you now. I don't claim to know-it-all. I am always willing to learn. #Nosarcasmhere

I could also argue for OP's position if I wanted but she took the weaker point to support her claim(s). Instead of claiming that Black men are sending their wealth to white people by marrying their women, show us what the Black woman has as an advantage over her white counterpart and make us Black men wish for nothing else except a Nubian Princess.

Surely that is not too much to ask for.

I think her attempt at 'opening the eyes of the Black man' is kind-of cute

does the black community only consist of black men?

show us what the Black woman has as an advantage over her white counterpart and make us Black men wish for nothing else except a Nubian Princess

what you consistently fail to get is it's not a competition, and only a lefulefu aka lost soul would make it such.

do you not know the meaning of apples and oranges and arent you judging people based on skin colour even though you claim you're not racist?


anyway, i want to be done with this thread sha. I dont argue with people who reason like this. Its a problem that's beyond me.

Tpia, I am begging you to show me this reality of life. Let me learn from you now. I don't claim to know-it-all. I am always willing to learn

everybody has their own reality, and mine isnt yours and vice versa ie yours isnt mine.

so, technically, i cant claim to know more about life than the next person, even if i say i do. The next person can however, feel I know more.

different experiences, different realities.

^Na wa for you O Tpia. I have been very clear in explaining my position on this topic. You have been elusive so far, claiming some 'greater wisdom'. When asked to explain what this wisdom is, you go philosophical.

Seriously, whatever it is you think of this topic, baby-sitting the Black man will not help his case. Have you read the biography of Malcolm X? If you haven't, read it. If you have, re-read it.

It will help you understand some of the positions I hold here. It may not be for you since you say you are not interested. Someone else might find it useful.

How does Malcolm X support your positions? I read his book and it is more in line with what I am saying. He was also one of the few non-hypocritical black activist men that actually married a black woman and had black children.

I also think yo should watch this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8TsnaOAPT8

nene1: How does Malcolm X support your positions? I read his book and it is more in line with what I am saying. He was also one of the few non-hypocritical black activist men that actually married a black woman and had black children.

I also think yo should watch this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8TsnaOAPT8

So the only way to show that you are a non-hypocritical Black man is to marry a Black woman? Malcolm's biography is in line with what you are saying, really? Nene, Malcolm preached that the Black man should see the greatness in himself and not seek the validation of the white man to make his life meaningful. Like I said earlier, that does not in any way mean you must marry from the black race to be true to yourself.

It simply means being true to yourself and making decisions that are the best for you based on your convictions. Towards the end of his life, he realized that most of the people and things he fought for, were undermined by his fellow Black men.

In essence, I am saying that if every Black person seeks to truly be the best they can be, there will be no need for you Nene to preach that we should marry within our race as a means to move 'our people' up the social ladder.

Look, I admire and applaud your aims but your approach is way too simplistic for a complex problem.

I agree that black people getting educated and doing other things to better themselves will help them move up. However, when they do reach that success, it is all lost if they marry a nonblack and have mixed kids. It is not just about getting success and money, but KEEPING it. The majority of the cream of the crop black people both men and women, tend to marry nonblacks TRANSFERRING all their wealth to them. Family is what makes a community grow. It is the foundation. A successful black man and black woman making a black family increases the number of wealthy blacks on the world and creates a generation of successful blacks. When a black man makes success and marries a white woman, when he dies his estate is transferred to her and her mixed kids who may or may not marry blacks. Abdoulaye Wade's wife is white and has a half white son. Now that son married a white woman so now his grandkids are practically white.

Also I didn't say ANY black man who married a nonblack woman is a hypocrite. I am taling about the black activists, pro-blacks, and pan africans who marry nonblacks. Is isn't it awkward that the MAJORITY of these men who promote black consciousness and black economic power and unity have white wives and half white families instead. That is just going to turn the next generaton of black people into biracials. How is that promoting black success?

Anyway, the reason why I made this post is not even to condemn interracial relationships as I don't think the world should be divided like that, but I am pointing out the inferiority complex a lot of black men in regards to skin color and race. All these black men marrying white women is not about following your heart, but a PATTERN of colonial and slave mentality that lighter is better. Why is this phenomenon ONLY with black men? Most successful menof other races marry their own despite being surrounded by many beautiful women of all races.

You need to take off your rose colored glasses and look at the world realistically. Interracial love especially that inluding blacks is A LOT of the time not about "love" or any of that Romeo and Juliet nonsense. It is due to an inferiority complex. A lot of black people are in denial about this.

Wow, I have only read the one post. I find that OP quite disturbing. I am married to a Nigerian and have mixed race kids. My husband has a very balanced mentality when it comes to things British and Nigerian - that is what our marriage work. What makes it hard is the lack of knowledge, the steriotypes and the nonsense that comes out from family members who have no idea what they are talking about regarding mixed relationships NOW. We are NOT living in the past are we? We can't change those feelings that our ancestors have bore upon us, But you can stand up to change it.I have lived in Nigeria and other countries, I know where my husband comes from, his culture and upbringing. I want my children to reflect that too in their heriatage. Its a shame some people on here are so upset by certain types of LOVE - who are you to say that inter reacial relationships are not based on love?
In fact it is a hell of a lot harder than in a normal relationship because of all the rubbish that people spew to try and make it harder for you.
And above poster - I can assure you that my husband does not ahve any inferiority complex.

For those talking of money. Again its very often rubbish. You see a white person and think they have money?! Anyone who has any sense knows fulls well that we don't all have millions stored away in banks and live in grand houses. Most of us married to black men FOR LOVE are simple HOUSEWIVES with kids, with no savings and our husbands earn our keep. YES sound familiar - we are very similar arent we?!
My husband is the one who had the savings, the good job and the sucess when we met as were most of the mixed race marriages I know of.

And your 'values' you talk of?
Yes I grew up in a very strict christain family with 5 kids. Our values much the same as your own. When it comes to divorce I have realised that actually the rate of Nigerian divorce is actually quite high. Now I wonder why this is when we are so different because of skin colour or that your own culture is so seemingly superior to ours in our morals stances?
Thing about morals is guys, is that we have different morals, not that they do or don't exist. What we deem as immoral might be deemed acceptable to yourselves and vice versa. Christians and Muslims alike should know what those stand on.

Its not to do with what you talk of - its about you heriatage and keeping it clean, not defiling it with another colour. Now this again sounds familiar. Dangerous. I am glad you can be open and honest with your views over there in Nigeria. Here in the UK we would keep those kinds of comments to ourselves even though we are trying to eradicate such ways of thinking.
No white woman or man for that matter is going to say 'drop your Nigerian identity' for me. If they are in a loving relationship, they will encourage them to keep and admire it as part of their heiratage.

Here in London, I would say there as just as many black women married to white men as vice versa, I do not think this is a male 'problem'
Nigerian and other black women are seen much more frequently now in mixed race relationships.

nene1,

Your position is somehow selfish. You saying a succesful black man should marry a black woman so as to keep the wealth @ home makes u sound like a racist.

I remember my mom's family making my uncle divorce his oyibo wife in other to marry a Nigerian woman who eventually turned his back against everyone.

If u live outside d country, then I think I get where u are coming from. Most of Naija men abroad would rather come home to marry or marry a white lady cos most of our Nigerian girls over there aint girls you can take home to mama.

Nene,
I do understand where you are coming from in some way. we all want to keep our culture and our people, our history and our generational sucesses. It's a safe haven, our security and what we know. It is only when you step outside the box that you begin to understand that other communities have just as much to give as you can take away. That you begin to realise that there is life beyond home. Reading your posts you do seem quite ill informed about other cultures though do seem to be pulling on hear say and steriotypes to build your argument.
What if I believed all the Nigerian steriotypes I hear here in the uk? Believe me if I was so small minded I would NEVER have married a Nigerian man.
I love culture, languages, everything that brings me new understanding and new learning. Being part of a mixed race family has only enriched my life, even though I am still British, and he still Nigerian.

@ mogunremi:

Who said I lived in Nigeria. I live in the U.S. I did not say anything about whites having money. I was talking about rich black men marrying white women. You missed the whole point. Don't take it personal. I know NOT ALL interracial relationships are due to an inferiority complex, but many are.

malcolm x? next they will be quoting biggie and tupac no wonder people stay away from this soo called 'black community'

and nene- it's hypocritical of you to take such a stance yet live in the us? If you were really pro black you will be in Africa fighting for everyone's rights?

queensmith: malcolm x? next they will be quoting biggie and tupac no wonder people stay away from this soo called 'black community'

and nene- it's hypocritical of you to take such a stance yet live in the us? If you were really pro black you will be in Africa fighting for everyone's rights?

Queensmith,

I am starting to like your posts these days, Are you doing it intentionally to seduce me?

the very idea. . . .makes me . . . wanna *vomit*

What does me living in the U.S. have to do with anything? Didn't whites/Europeans come to Africa and colonize us? They took advantage of the resources and everything else they could get in Africa. So why can't I come here to get an education and take my skills back with me?

I think we are going to stay bottom of the barrel people as long as blacks stay in denial.

queensmith: Malcolm x? next they will be quoting biggie and tupac no wonder people stay away from this soo called 'black community'

That was a very ignorant post.

Forget Dayo's endorsement, he is obviously infatuated by you.

nene1: @ mogunremi:

Who said I lived in Nigeria. I live in the U.S. I did not say anything about whites having money. I was talking about rich black men marrying white women. You missed the whole point. Don't take it personal. I know NOT ALL interracial relationships are due to an inferiority complex, but many are.

Nene, we get your point. We are only telling you that it is not a point to support or promote. Don't worry, we will hold a symposium for all the rich and powerful black men to marry not just because they want fair/white children or just want to have a white woman. They should think about what you call the 'negative effects' on our community and we will then leave them to marry whomsover they want.

@Mogunremi, nice one. Nene, does not realise that she has Fascist and Racist tendencies with her position and 'her point'. Brazil, is a country where a lot of mixing has occurred, yet people still hold-on to many African traditions that form part of their heritage like African religions, language. Even the carnival that is so big over there has its roots in Africa. If Nene's points are so valid, these things would not be present in Brazil because they would have been lost with most of the Blacks turning white after a few generations from the stop of the slave trade.

Don't get me wrong O. Racism still occurs there but at a minimal level when compared to other prosperous nations with a significant Black population in terms of size.

I'm suprised you live in the US. Nothing wrong with you taking new skills and money back home, I would support that but why try and start up some kind of thinking like this in a foreign country - this is when people get irritated and angry, YOU are an example of your people, a reflection on your own country and this is what you want people to learn about Nigerians?
I really hope that the next generation will not have views like this and pray that parents will see sense and not believe all they are told but go and see for themselves.
Here in the UK black africans are generally the most accepted people because they partake of the community and learn to live in it side by side with white culture whilst retaining in some way their own identity. Some other minorities however are not seen in such a good light because they come over and just keep themselves to themselves which creates scepticism and fear of the unknown.
You are talking back about the history. No one will and blacks rightly so ever forget the tragedy of the slave trade and how awful whites were to blacks.
I come from part Jewish family, my grandad killed by germans in 2nd world war. My grandma hates the germans. Should I hate germans?
No, because a new generation has arisen, has been forgiven and has vowed that this should never happen again.
We accept this because we do not want to carry this burden on for generations and generations because of the damage it did.

You think you will stay bottom of the barrel people? Well thats the way you see it and I don't think your views are gonna help get you feel any different. You are stuck way back in time and bear a grudge in relation to your ancestors.
I don't know about in the US. I know some of it is still quite racist, but here in the UK ethnic minorities have the upper hand. There is no way we would be allowed to speak openly as some of you have done in this forum about blacks. It would be reported as racist. Its not English people who hold the top jobs, positions and houses here in the UK, We can't afford to.

@ mac Thanks. I'm glad that there are some people like yourself who can see things in another light. We need to get rid of the skin colour way of thinking whilst retaining our respective cultures but that doesnt mean that two cultures cannot come together. To me its kind of like a sign of peace and changing of attitudes. I don't know how my children will be accepted when they are older. They are still very young, I do worry though sometimes about taking them out of the mulitcultural metropolis that is London and into an all white or black community but I can only teach them to stand up for themselves and help them understand the best of both worlds. Am sure they are going to encounter this way of thinking at some stage and I know that will make me and my husband sad when it does.

maclatunji:

That was a very ignorant post.

Forget Dayo's endorsement, he is obviously infatuated by you.

dayo is infactuated with everything- he's nigerian aint he!!

and yes yes I know to some he's the martin luther but there is alot I disagree with- we read different books about him I suppose!

^Dayo's infatuation might be something you don't want to turn-off with the wave of the hand. You might want to give a brother a thought and maybe a chance. I don't know, maybe I embarrassed him with my comment. It is still a sign of affection anyway. #Sorry for slight derailment everybody.

About Malcolm X, comparing him to 2pac and Notorious B.I.G. has to be a joke. As gangsters, those guys don't come close and as a Black activist and leader there is no basis for comparison. Malcolm was way ahead of his peers, even Martin Luther. If Martin Luther's ideals were imbibed truly by Americans, Nene wouldn't be here saying what she is saying as an African immigrant in America.

mogunremi: @ mac Thanks. I'm glad that there are some people like yourself who can see things in another light. We need to get rid of the skin colour way of thinking whilst retaining our respective cultures but that doesnt mean that two cultures cannot come together. To me its kind of like a sign of peace and changing of attitudes. I don't know how my children will be accepted when they are older. They are still very young, I do worry though sometimes about taking them out of the mulitcultural metropolis that is London and into an all white or black community but I can only teach them to stand up for themselves and help them understand the best of both worlds. Am sure they are going to encounter this way of thinking at some stage and I know that will make me and my husband sad when it does.

Don't worry so much about your kids, just let you and your husband give them a proper upbringing as human beings and most of the world will accept them for who they are. I am yet to find an individual that was truly accepted by everybody irrespective of race or creed. Those who will accept us- will and those who won't well... won't.

By the way, Nene is not Nigerian although she is African. This is just for the record as Tpia who is firmly behind her on this is Nigerian. So we cannot say that some Nigerians don't think like Nene.

ah ok mac, Have to say when I was in Nigeria everyone was very good to me as have my husband's family been. We are both lucky we have both very good families like this behind us. I think its just lack of understanding really and people adhering too much to steriotypes of the western woman and way of life.

It's up to the individual to decern what someone wants out of a relationship or marriage for that matter just as it would apply in relationships of the same race.
Anyway I should have read the whole thread before barging in.
I still find it hard to undersstand though Nene, why you would want to go live in another country and not take anything out of the experience other than qualifications or funds. That baffles me. I learnt so much from travelling and living abroad - In fact it is what made me me today. I am always thankful for those times, even though I may not have agreed with all the ways of the culture. It hasn't changed thend fact that I am essentially English, just my perspective on life.

Family is a great thing until it becomes a burden.

[quote][/quote]Oh and one poster said whites don't care who their children marry? Really? With the exception of poor whites, you think elite white families like the Trumps, Johnson & Johnson, Ford, Rockefeller, the Royal family n England would not bat an eye if one of their children decides to marry a black person? Seriously? They would want their children to marry another wealthy WHITE person.

Maybe true amongst the elite but does not apply just to the poor. I know many wealthy, professional whites who married interracially.

You can blame western women for stealing black men or black men for forsaking their culture, but the reasons behind a mixed race relationship are usually far more simple than you try to make out. (apart from the marriage for visa and documents people which is another subject)
When I see a western man with a woman of another race, I honestly don't bat an eyelid, its their choice, they have their own reasons and personal choices - its really non of my business!
and My brother has just got married to an indionesian woman with very dark skin

Right, am going to stop waffling before I get bashed

@ mogunremi:

What is your definition of integrating into the community which you say UK Africans do unlike other minorities? What do those other minorities do that is diferent and who are those other minorities?

maclatunji: ^Dayo's infatuation might be something you don't want to turn-off with the wave of the hand. You might want to give a brother a thought and maybe a chance. I don't know, maybe I embarrassed him with my comment. It is still a sign of affection anyway. #Sorry for slight derailment everybody.

About Malcolm X, comparing him to 2pac and Notorious B.I.G. has to be a joke. As gangsters, those guys don't come close and as a Black activist and leader there is no basis for comparison. Malcolm was way ahead of his peers, even Martin Luther. If Martin Luther's ideals were imbibed truly by Americans, Nene wouldn't be here saying what she is saying as an African immigrant in America.

ok u may call me a conspiracy theorist with this one but i believe the racist, hateful, vengeful culture of gangs and violence started from him and his movements. I genuinely believe theres a connection and not a positive one.
People believe tupac is a black activist and leader? he started very much the same way? no? I dunno I understand where the black americans are coming from and as an african theres only soo much I can comment on, but I have very little respect for the direction most of these black movements take themselves. Very little, theres a difference between taking a stand for your race and being a racist.

nene1: @ mogunremi:

What is your definition of integrating into the community which you say UK Africans do unlike other minorities? What do those other minorities do that is diferent and who are those other minorities?

Don't mind her.lol She says she comes from Jewish family. But seems like she doesn't know the history of the Jewish race.
The reason the Jews were so successful is because of the same exact things you are talking about!
Their religious laws (Torah) forbade intermarriage for centuries. They make their success and kept it within their community. that's why others including germans and americans hated them with a passion. The Jews were extremely successful!
of course, they are no longer as influential as they were in the past because they have assimilated and blend in with the whites for the most part.
even this guy explains it http://factoru..com/2011/02/intermarriage-divorce-and-great-jewish.html that intermarriage leads to a transfer of wealth.
that's why the richest and most powerful (the like of Rothschild and other Jewish magnates) generally refuse to intermarry because they keep their wealth among themselves that way. but it is only black that the richest are actually more likely to intermarry. isn't that a strange reverse of the norm?
Imagine an African country like Senegal where there has never been a black first lady because all their presidents marry white women. How can anyone find that normal and not see that there is a problem there.

no one is saying that intermarriage is bad. but when an unnaturally high number of successful blacks are intermarrying then that's a problem. what success is left to stay in the black community? how many successful Lebanese and Asians in Nigeria do you see intermarrying with Nigerians? isn't that how they keep their wealth and success within their group?

I like the Malcolm X video by the way. very straightforward and honest. but of course, many of us will forever remain in denial.

i swear jews are rich because they got restitution from the holocaust? seriously i've missed alot!

hindu's are forbidden intermarriages yet most of them are poor? hmm racism is not good for the thinking. Many people only marry thier brothers and sisters and that does not make thier families rich.

The whole theory in my opinion is bs!

^Don't mind them, I mentioned Nigeria earlier, they avoided it. I don't think up to 1 per cent of Nigerians living in Nigeria marry foreign women. So how come about 3% of the population hold over 70 per cent (conservative estimate) of the country's wealth whilst the rest of us are struggling to survive?

I guess we should blame foreign elves and imps for that since white women are not available to blame.

@Queensmith, Malcolm held many notions that were wrong and he was the first to admit that. Unfortunately, people like Nene still hold on to such. The turning point in his life was when he went for Hajj in Mecca and saw people of all colours all together united as one people. By the time he got back to America after visiting Nigeria and Ghana from Mecca. His perspective had completely changed. He admitted to being honoured by people who we can only classify as being 'white' when push comes to shove in Mecca.

I am sure the race issue in America would have been a different ball game had he not been murdered. By the way, he wasn't a very big fan of Martin Luther's tactics.