Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message - Religion (12) - Nairaland
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| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by Anna7: 7:38am On Sep 02, 2015 |
justcool: Dear Mr M Nwankwo You have very rightly mentioned in your post that “If the added verse had said, “In addition to the afore-mentioned, there is another cause of disintegration…” that would have corresponded to the Truth.” And this is what has been said in the added verse. I am quoting this passage for our reference from the revised edition: “The afore-mentioned sporadic disintegration of all matter at a certain definite point in its cycle is a consequence of the fact that the human spirit seed-grains, which have the capacity to make a free decision, are permitted to develop in the Worlds of Matter”. The word periodic has now been replaced by sporadic. In fact we can imagine that the English translator is not sure how to say what is written in German. So the problem is with the translation and not with the Message. As per me there is no contradiction at all in the final edition otherwise in the last 65 years of its existence; it would have been pointed out much earlier. Not now. We should also not think that we are more mature more responsible now than the called ones who helped in editing printing and publishing this edition. You will find all such rumors are being spread by those who badly failed at the time of Abd-ru-shin and are again here on earth. They are here only because they cannot return, you know why. So one should trust only trustworthy people and not everyone, like Incas done. |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by Fefe43: 5:12pm On Sep 02, 2015 |
Hi every1... Hello @m_nwankwo I feel blessed having dis forum 2 strengthen me. I have read d Grail message up 2 vol.2 but @ some point I lost courage,buh dis site has given me an inner urge 2 carry on! Pls sir... Dis is my email...Uoguaka@yahoo.com . I ve a lot of questions 4 clarification and I believe ur perception of d Grail message can be of help 2 me! Looking 4ward 2 talk 2 u! I started all over 4rm Vol 1. I am @ d lecture"The world" Thanks 4 ur time...! |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by Anna7: 3:13am On Sep 03, 2015 |
Justcool I am sorry for writing your name Mr Nwankwo instead of Mr Justcool in my previous post. Here it is only a case of using wrong words “aforementioned sporadic” in place of “below mentioned sporadic”, but no contradictions. However if you have found any other contradictions in the final edition, please let us know. Warm regards, |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by shinealight(m): 1:26pm On Sep 10, 2015 |
Anna7: Thanks for your comments Anna 7. It would appear that Justcool has already taken his own decision on how he wishes to view the portion of the Grail Message in question. That is his prerogative. However, every decision has consequences, even more so when one allows that decision to affect or influence other human beings who are susceptible to one's guidance and/or direction. For your benefit and that of others who are still inwardly free to make their own assessment, deductions and conclusions, I would like to make a further clarification on the issue. The first point to note is that there is no contradiction whatsoever in the entire Grail Message. Any apparent contradiction or error is only due to the inner incapacity or intellectual inadequacy of the individual reader to grasp correctly what is being offered to him. The Bringer of the Grail Message is totally incapable of introducing "error or contradiction" in his Work because he is "Perfection" itself! The notion that any third party may have added or introduced such contradiction is also nothing but unmitigated fallacy! The second point to note is that the Grail Message is a single Work, though given to mankind of today in three volumes. Therefore a concept introduced in Volume 1 can be referred to as "afore-mentioned" even in Volume 3. The whole concept of "disintegration setting in at a certain point of the great cycle" had been thoroughly explained in the lecture The World (Volume 1, Lecture 13). Hence the Author has admonished readers to go through the entire Message step by step without jumping lectures or passages. The Author expressly states as follows in the Epilogue: Quote - "Therefore avoid anything desultory, but fathom each of my words from the beginning, and sentence by sentence. No person is able to exhaust the value of the Message here on earth, for it is intended for all parts of the World. Do not pick out certain passages of the Message at random! It is one whole, indivisible, like God’s Laws of this Creation. No human spirit can alter or distort anything without being harmed in the process. Nor can you introduce anything into it from outside either; you cannot insert anything alien which is more pleasant to you into individual passages, no matter whether it originates from a known teaching or comes from yourselves! You must leave my Message unchanged from the first to the last word if it is to benefit you! You must first experience it within yourselves so as to form your outward life in accordance with it!" Unquote. (bold emphasis mine!) Now to the passage in question (Volume 2, Lecture 52). While it may help somewhat in attaining clarity, the main issue is really not about the use of the words "afore-mentioned periodic" or "afore-mentioned sporadic", etc. The main point is that the Author is describing a scenario to us and telling us what happens under such a scenario. The scenario he is describing explains the circumstances that lead to a "purification" taking place! It is noteworthy that a normal process of disintegration will take place in ALL celestial globes when they reach a certain point in the great cycle (regardless of the condition of the globe or its inhabitants). Such a natural process of disintegration which accords with the Will of the Almighty serves to revert all matter to its primeval substance but this does not entail a purification process! "Purification" only takes place under a situation of over-ripeness of a celestial globe occasioned by the inhabitants not following the Will of the Almighty. The Author introduces this passage and starts off by saying - Quote "The processes in the cycle of the World of Matter indicated here only in broad outline may also produce a few exceptions which, however, are not caused by any changes or distortions in the effective Laws of Creation, but which contain complete and inexorable fulfilment. In order to avoid errors creeping in I now wish to give a few brief explanations in advance of later lectures where the subject is dealt with more fully :" Unquote. Two things to take note of in this introduction. Firstly, he says the processes in the cycle.....may also produce exceptions ....which remain valid within the Laws of Creation. Secondly, he ends that introduction with a colon ( : ). Anybody with access to the original German text can check it and will find that the colon is also there! What does the colon tell us? Simply that he is about to unfold a scenario which may constitute an exception to the processes in the World of Matter but which nevertheless conforms with the Laws! The Author then goes ahead to describe a situation whereby the celestial globe is brought to that point in the great cycle (when disintegration automatically sets in) brought there not by normal process of development but through the fact that the human spirits have not been living aright but have contributed to an increase in the density and heaviness of that globe which was not willed by the Light. This increase in density/heaviness forces the globe unto a course that leads to over-ripeness and to the funnel where disintegration takes place! It is under these circumstances that, through an Act of Grace of the Creator, an Envoy of the Light may be permitted to incarnate in order to strengthen the Power of the Light which then results in a purification taking place to sweep away all that is dark and to pull up the thus blessed globe into more luminous regions so that it passes above the funnel of disintegration and remains in existence! SINCE THE FOCUS OF THIS LATTER PASSAGE IS ENTIRELY ON THE ISSUE OF "PURIFICATION AND THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT LEAD TO IT", THERE CAN BE NO QUESTION OF THE STATEMENT ABOUT THE "WRONG DECISIONS OF MAN" BEING ABOUT THE NATURAL/NORMAL/PLANNED DISINTEGRATION PROCESS. THE STATEMENT ABOUT THE WRONG DECISIONS OF MAN IS CLEARLY REFERRING TO WHAT GIVES RISE TO OVER-RIPENESS WHICH THEN NECESSITATES A PURIFICATION IN ORDER TO AVERT A PREMATURE DISINTEGRATION. HENCE THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION WHATSOEVER IN THE STATEMENT CONCERNING THE WRONG DECISIONS OF MAN! We are further told in this passage that: ".....The compulsory purification connected with the anchoring of the Light is the same as an absolutely new birth!" In other words, this extraordinary and exceptional Grace which side-steps the cataclysmic process of disintegration, nevertheless produces the desired "new birth" which would have taken thousands of years to accomplish under the normal disintegration process. What a Revelation! No human being on earth was privy to such deep spiritual knowledge. Hence no human being could fabricate and add this portion to the Grail Message! Best wishes. |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by latrust(f): 5:32pm On Sep 10, 2015 |
shinealight: @shinalight Your stance is a little bit harsh and contradictory. I found this harsh: shinealight:I found this being addressed to Justcool very harsh. He is only sharing his perception. It appears that you are offended because his views does not agree with your religious view. Please correct me if I'm wrong. shinealight: How is this fallacy? I have researched on this issue myself, as I was deciding which faction to get sealed at. Let me being by saying that the fact that there are factions of the Grail movement is in itself very discouraging, especially to seekers like me. I have heard about the harsh ways each faction treats their opponents. Some have even shared their experience in this forum. This is enough evidence that this movement is a religion. How do you reconcile it with the Grail message that in its preface clearly stated that "The following words does not bring a new religion!" From my observation, it seems that each time you bring a spiritual question to them, they will first like to know what faction you belong to. Whether you belong to the mountain or not. It seems they are leading to their factions rather than to God. This disgusted me and I stayed away. Only in Nairaland did I find two genuine(Justcool and Mnwankwo) crossbearers who, I perceive are more interested in leading seekers to God and not to any faction. From my own understanding, justcool does not even belong to any. I noticed the first question you asked in this thread, you asked justcool's view of the mountain. He answered without knowing where you were headed, but I suspected you were asking about the factions, and I knew this thread will come to this. This thread has been very spiritually enlightening, please let's not derail it. You said it is unmitigated fallacy to suggest that a third party changed the Grail message, yet none of the factions have the original manuscript where Abd-ru-shin made the changes. Please if you do, show us. As for me I don't know who made the changes. But there is no evidence that Abd-ru-shin did. And there is motive for the movement to do so, considering the legal discord that happened around that time. All these are easily found on-line. The other evidence is that some of the added verses are not in accord, or does not flow with the rest of the message as this thread has conclusively shown. shinealight: Here is where you made loads of contradictions. The knowledge of disintegration was introduced in Volume I, Lecture 13 as something that all matter must go through when they reach a certain stage. All though the Grail message it maintained this fact that all that is material is subject to disintegration. Then, in volume II, in the lecture 52, it continued to describe the process, prescribing matter as eternally rotating though birth and decay. It even compares matter with a field of grain, stating that: "In the same way as a field after a number of years yields an ever-decreasing harvest of grain, and only receives new strength through planting different crops, so it is with the whole World of Matter. This, too, becomes exhausted after a time and must refresh its strength through disintegration and a new composition. Such events, however, cover millions of years, but even in happenings extending over many millions of years there comes one definite year which is absolutely decisive for the necessary separation of what is useful from what is useless." The above is consistent with The World (Volume 1, Lecture 13). So the disintegration so far talked about is a natural process that must happen when its time comes. Then all of a sudden, in the added verse, it sad that the afore-mentioned is "a consequence of the fact that the human spirit-germs, which have the capacity to make a free decision, are permitted to develop in the Worlds of Matter." This is a big contradiction because up to that point in the Grail Message the disintegration has only always been described as a natural consequence of rotation of matter. So the words "Afore-mentioned" is out of place as justcool pointed out. How can I say Mr A's gender is male because he was born male and later in the same text say that the aforementioned gender of Mr A is male because of his choice/fault, he changed his gender. Granted, it is possible for someone to change his gender and go from male to female or from female to male, but in this case I have stated many times in my text that Mr A is male because he was born male, then all of a sudden, later I add another verse to say that the aforementioned Mr A is male because he changed his gender. Obliviously there is a contradiction. If I want o introduce the idea that one can also change ones gender out of choice or fault, I wouldn't start with the word "Afore-mentioned." We know matter is transitory and subject to change of forms, must disintegrate. We also know that sin can lead to a premature disintegration. When I write a text describing the disintegration that occurs naturally, that matter must disintegrate. And later in the same text, I added that the disintegration I have been talking about(the afore-mentioned) is as a result of sin! and you don't see contraction  I belive you did not grasp what justcool was pointing out. Anna7, in her last submission, got it right, by admitting that "Here it is only a case of using wrong words “aforementioned sporadic” in place of “below mentioned sporadic”, but no contradictions." If you really believe that Abd-ru-shin is perfection personified then the idea of attributing "wrong words" to him is out of the question. It simply was not written by him. And it is a contradiction event though you refuse to admit it. shinealight: Here you agree that disintegration takes place in all matter, maybe Justcool has rightly drilled that into you. But you fail to realize that even this obivouse truth of disintegration of all matter was contradicted in the added verse which says: "Any part of the Cosmos or any celestial body in the World of Matter in which the developing human spirits adjust all their desires and pure volitions only to the Light remains more luminous, and therefore lighter, on a plane where it can uninterruptedly absorb the living radiating powers out of the Light. It always remains fresh and healthy and swings in the Laws of Creation, thus avoiding a course which must otherwise lead to over-ripeness and disintegration." Doesn't this suggest that under certain circumstances matter will always remain fresh, " thus avoiding a course which must otherwise lead to over-ripeness and disintegration". This bolded part is really wired because even a child knows that all that is material is transient. Its like the Catholics saying that under certain circumstances the physical body can live forever and enter paradise. They believe this happened to Elijah, Jesus and Virgin Mary. Also, show me where the Grail Message said that the disintegration that happens periodically as a natural consequence does not bring purification! To the best of my knowledge, all disintegration serves also to purify matter because in the process all that is evil will be destroyed!!!!!!!!! shinealight: Colon only means that the following sentence will explain what I mean. Hence after a colon comes the explanation. It can also mean introduction of new concept like you rightly said. But in this case it was not instruction of new concept otherwise he would not have used the word "afore-mentioned." No language in the world, not even the German language, introduces a new idea by "The Afore-mentioned. |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by shinealight(m): 7:26pm On Sep 10, 2015 |
latrust: Thank you for your response. Harshness did you say? Nothing harsh about it. Only a statement of fact! The statement that "Any apparent contradiction or error is only due to the inner incapacity or intellectual inadequacy of the individual reader to grasp correctly what is being offered to him" is not directed at any particular person, least of all Justcool because Justcool will NEVER attempt to put himself either spiritually or intellectually, side by side with the Bringer of the Grail Message. The statement is not personal but concerns every individual reader, be they a Professor, a layperson or even a Pope! As far as I know, Justcool has never stated that the contradiction or error he perceives was introduced by the Author Himself. He will be the first person to acknowledge the veracity of the statement I made. So much for coming to the defence of Justcool on that score! As regards the other points you made alluding to contradictions on my part as well as in the content of the Grail Message, I can only urge you to take some time and re-read what I have written. People seem to hinge their position on the use of the word "afore-mentioned" which actually has very little to do with grasping the import of the passage in question. Let me use a simplistic analogy to illustrate my point. If something is placed on a conveyor belt which is rolling downward at a steady pace and the system is such that any item that descends to a particular point at the bottom of the conveyor belt will become mashed and no longer useable, it does not matter how the item gets to the bottom of the belt, it will still become mashed. If it continues at a steady pace, perhaps it could take one whole year to get to the bottom. However, if some children decide to use it for target practice and keep throwing stones or darts at the item, it may roll down sooner and will still get mashed when it reaches that defined point at the bottom of the conveyor unless some knowledgeable adult does something to project the item back up to where it was supposed to have reached had the children not tampered with the item. It seems quite straight-forward and logical. It would appear that when people read the Law about disintegration, they merely focus on the bit that talks about "disintegration of all matter" but do not place equal emphasis on "at a certain point in the great cycle". So, even when talking about a premature disintegration which necessitates purification, the word afore-mentioned (as per the principle already explained in Volume 1, lecture 13) can still be used because the emphasis is on the fact that the defined point in the great cycle has been reached albeit through undesirable increased density! Anyway, it is left for every individual to take from the Grail Message what s/he wills according to his/her perception. I still maintain that the notion that any third party may have added or introduced any contradictory word or error to the GM is nothing but unmitigated fallacy! People cannot say in one breath that they believe that one Personality is an Anchorage of Purity and then turn around and say in another breath that this same Personality is a liar! Everyone can take that statement as it strikes or touches them. Best wishes. |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by latrust(f): 9:16pm On Sep 10, 2015 |
shinealight: Did you read justcool's explanation to Speer about the anchorage of Purity and Love, I believe his explanation is correct. If he is wrong, let us know. In the lecture, The Primordial Spiritual planes it is revealed that Maria and Irmingard are not part of creation, and not tied to their anchorages in creation. Even if these anchorages are primordial spiritual beings, cant they make mistakes? Didn't Lucifer who was Divine make mistake? especially at the time when they are not connected to Maria and Irmingard. Also, I'm a seeker but I know that the Grail Message said that only womanhood had to do with Irmingard, men had nothing to do with her. This is not an exact quote, but my summery. How can she then on earth, lead a movement that is made up of men and women. The Grail Message also say that Maria and Irmingard are active without the possibility of anything in creation reacting upon them. So how can they lead mankind when mankind's reaction cannot reach them? Justcool explained how a certain degree of homogeneity or connection is needed between a teacher and his/her subjects. Doesn't the fact that they led an earthly movement already show that they can make mistakes? Being a woman, I delved into the message to find the earthly role of women which is passive and mostly spiritual. Leading a movement comprising of men and women, in my view, does not correspond to the higher calling of women. Justcool once explained that the message took thousands for years for its preparation, and that even before incarnating, but Jesus and Ab-ru-shin knew consequences and the possibility of rejection and mankind's failure? How come with this knowledge he wrote the Message, only to change the whole thing after he noticed that mankind had failed. So he didn't know or anticipate the failure before writing? I have read where Mr Vollman admitted to making a change in "Question and answers!" supposedly written by Abd-ru-shin. If you want I can show it to you. Isn't this prof enough that they change the words of Abd-ru-shin? Wasnt Maria and Irmingard alive when Vollman changed the words to an answer given by Abd-ru-shin? What about the changes I heard they made on the Past eras awaken? In this case they don't claim that it was Abd-ru-shin that made the changes, yet the original stories were received in the proximity of Abd-ru-shin. Only for the movement to change them when He was no longer on earth. What about the ones they withdraw and choose not to sell anymore, eventhough it was freely sold at the time of Abd-ru-shin. If all these changes can be made within decade, who know what the book will look like in thousands of years. Considering that they are still editing it and replacing words with the alleged "better ones." I also read that they tried to register the movement as a religion after the death of Abd-ru-shin, but the authorities refused because the Grail message in its preface clearly said that, "The following words does not bring a new religion." Your explanation about using "Afore-mentioned" to introduce a new concept still does not make sense to me, but lets not dwell on that. How about where it said that under certain circumstances matter will always remain fresh, " thus avoiding a course which must otherwise lead to over-ripeness and disintegration". So you believe under certain circumstances this earth can exist forever? I believe the movement is a religion. Thats why the highest number of members in Nigerian. This is a trend that is found in all religions, Nigerians are very religious. Best wishes to you too. |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by shinealight(m): 4:08pm On Sep 12, 2015 |
latrust: I'm afraid, the issues raised above are way over my head. As an ordinary human spirit from the lowest ramifications of the Spiritual Realm, I would hesitate to start speculating on when or how the Anchorage of a Primordial Spiritual Being departed or the scope of responsibility of such beings. Personally, I would prefer to err on the side of caution in these matters! For me, the following words in the Message suffice to clear all doubts: ".....Therefore in the last, most sacred fulfilment Imanuel now works in Creation simultaneously in Parsifal, Maria and Irmingard!" latrust: The question I always ask myself about this kind of allegations is: Why? For what purpose? Why would Herr Vollman tamper with or change the words of And-ru-shin? Is it to show that he knows better than the Author Himself? Surely, a highly Called One like Herr Vollman who stood solidly by Maria and Irmingard after the passing of Abd-ru-shin, would know the consequences of such an action better than most. Again, in the absence of answers to these questions, I prefer to err on the side of caution! latrust: New editions of the book need to be produced periodically because the vocabularies of our languages are constantly changing. The English of the 1920s and 1930s cannot be said to be appropriate for the younger generation of today. For instance, the word "Phantasie" was used in the German edition many times which was translated to English as "Phantasy" but this has now been replaced with "fantasy" which is more in line with current usage. I would say therefore that revisions are necessary periodically, say every ten years or so if only to update the vocabulary! latrust: For me, it is neither here nor there that they tried to register the Movement as a Religious Society if they considered it expedient to do so at the time. It is not the label that counts but the practice. The statement made by the Author relates to practice, i.e. what people do with His Message, how they perceive it inwardly and whether they live it instead of rapturously hailing and praising the Bringer as they are wont to do with religions without understanding what is demanded of them for their salvation. He says: "The following Word does not bring a new religion"! This means he does not want humanity to approach it with the same attitude that they generally adopt with their religions. This fact is illustrated by the Answer given to Question 10 in Q & A where it is asked: "Is church attendance advisable for seekers"? In response, we are told: "The way to the Truth goes also through the churches. The decisive factor for it is always and only the inner state of the individual........" Further on, we are told: "The churches are quite good, but the people, [i]those who attend these churches, are inwardly dead. If they bring life into themselves, they will also find what they need in the churches". From the above it can be seen that the emphasis of the Author of the Grail Message is to enlighten humanity on earth so that they can live as responsible human beings with full knowledge of the Laws of Creation and acting responsibly therein out of conviction. Hence, in the preface to the book he also says: "........Religious fanatics and irresponsible enthusiasts may hold aloof, for they are detrimental to the Truth". latrust: The passage says: ".....It always remains fresh and healthy and swings in the Laws of Creation, thus avoiding a course which must otherwise lead to over-ripeness and disintegration". This makes perfect sense because anything that follows the LAWS OF CREATION will proceed along the path of development intended for it and will always remain "fresh and healthy" (without any undesirable or unwanted dross) while maintaining that course. It is the unwanted dross that precipitates over-ripeness which then leads to premature disintegration. It does not mean that the celestial globe will never go through disintegration but it will proceed along the path ordained for it and will remain fresh while on that path and fully complying with the Laws of Creation as willed by the Creator. It will get to its destined end when it is meant to get there, not before and not later. Also, that end will only be a replenishing, strengthening and renewal (corresponding to a new birth) which is not the same as destruction! latrust: Some definitions of the word "Religion" given in the English dictionary are: 1.) the organised service and worship of a god, gods, or the supernatural. 2.) a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardour and faith. So, if you participate in organised worship of the Creator in whatever way, you can be said to be involved in religious practice. If on the other hand you choose not to be openly involved in any "organised" worship but you hold firmly to some principle or belief with unbending conviction, you can equally be accused of being engaged in religionism. To believe in nothing and hold nothing sacred should not be an option for a human being! What is most important therefore is to hold on to a principle that is true, unchanging and eternal which are the hallmarks of the Spiritual. Then one can say unashamedly that one is practising a Religion of Truth! |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by latrust(f): 3:37am On Sep 13, 2015 |
shinealight: Wow that’s typical! Shinalight please help me out here. Why do you guys always do this. You can talk all day about the factions, the movement, and its leaders but when questioned about the contents of the message, you shy away. I alluded to this in my first post to you. And this is typical of not just you, but some others as well. You show humility when these persons are mentioned but you don’t show as much humility towards Abd –ru-shin. Even as a seeker, I have already been told that he made a mistake in his former earth life, remember what he did to the guy that captured Nahome and her mom. Justcool is the only cross bearer who, I’ve come across that doesn’t hold the view that the prince made a mistake. You guys believe that the Prince can make a mistake as grievous as that, you don’t even hesitate to tell seekers this, yet hold the view that Irmgard and her mother cannot make a mistake! You guys place the two women above the author of the message who you earlier in this thread called perfection personified The same way a catholic will laugh at joke about Jesus but will frown when you joke about Mary.Also, by saying that the issue I raised is above your head, you call Abd-ru-shin a bad teacher by implication. What I stated were written by Abd-ru-shin in the Grail message that he wrote for human spirits, or spirits of the lowest ramification. So by saying that it is above your head, you imply that he gave human spirits knowledge that is over their head or comprehension. I found it disappointing that a crossbreaer will refer to any knowledge mediated in the Grail message as over his head. So then you have not accepted the entire message. Yet the message said you must take all or nothing. Therefore you have taken nothing! It is not humility when one shies away from these facts, but rather cowardice. Let me re-state them again, the Grail message said that: (1) “Maria does not enter into all this at all, nor does Irmingard. Coming from above, They are, it is true, anchored into the Creations, but not firmly connected with them. Therein lies a great difference again.” (2) “Despite the anchorages They are not tied to them, but completely free from them and their currents.” (3) “The currents of Creation can approach Them through these anchorages, so that they become clearly recognisable, but they can never penetrate into Them, because the necessary connection for this is lacking.” (4) “Maria and Irmingard are active, but without the possibility of anything reacting upon Them! They work in a helping and uplifting way, strengthening, purifying, healing or also repelling, but in Their Radiations They do not connect Themselves with the Creation. Heed this well!” (5) “The womanhood of Creation as such has only to do with Irmingard. And She descended to the Grail Castle into Primordial Creation, out of the Divine Plane, and there merely stepped into a Primordial Spiritual vessel which had already been prepared for Her.” From the above quataations from the Grail message we summarize, Maria and Irmiingard are not part of creation. They work in creation through vessels prepared for them. Yet they are not tied or firmly connected to these vessels! They are active without the possibility of anything reaction upon then because their connection with creation is lacking! The womanhood of creation has only to do with Irmingard, therefore men has nothing to do with her. Putting all these together, we can see that their vessels can act without them because they are not firmly connected. The fact that Irmgard lead a movement that comprised men and women already shows that she was not at that time connected with Irmingard who has only to do with womanhood, otherwise she would not have been able to lead men. It appears that Abd-ru-shin may have know that these women will later be worshiped by men, therefore he wrote the above which clarifies everything. The most touching part is that in regards to this issue he used the phrase, “HEED THIS WELL!” He wished for us to understand this. And I don’t think these facts are too high for any human being to understand. So for you to say that ist above your head is very surprising. Please show me one verse in the Grail message where Abd-ru-shin said that Maria and Irmingard above creation, who carried unsubstantiated cores ever incarnated on earth. To the best of my knowledge, in creation they only worked with vessels(human beings), which they are not firmly connected to! To the best of my knowledge, only two people (Jesus and Imanuel) carried unsubstantate cores on earth, like Justcool courageously explained. shinealight: Yes, but he also explained how they worked in creation. He explained that they are above creation but only work through vessels already prepared for them which they are not firmly connected to. What you quoted above is exactly what justcool said/ explained when he said that during the time of the most sacred fulfillments on earth, the vessels on earth were able to link up with Maria and Irmingard above creation. The question is: Did this period of sacred fulfillment extend all through their stay on earth or did it end by the departure of Ab-ru-shin? Tell me which prophesy that ever said that the two women will remain active on earth after the departure of Abd-ru-shin. I can show you a vision received in the proximity of Abd-ru-shin, in the vision it was revealed that Maria and Irmingard will depart the earth with Abd-ru-shin, drawn back by his ray through which they unfolded. This was easily distributed to cross bearers when Abd-ru-shin was alive and he didn’t say the vision was wrong. This you can also find online. Maybe this is above your head too. You might also, want to read “Memories of Joseph Wagna,” which was released by the movement and later recalled. Fragments of it are online. shinealight:From a book by a cross berer, I quote: “In the book “Questions and Answers” published by the Stiftung Gralsbotschaft, one finds the following answer of Abd-ru-shin to question number 7: Question: Has the Grail Movement (Gralsbewegung) any connection with one of the exsisting Grail oders, or with any such societies with similar names? Answer: The Grail Movement (Gralsbewegung) has no such connection whatever with any of the known orders or societies. In its sbolute independence it would also reject any connection. However, the original version reads thus: Question: Has the Grail papers (Gralsblatter) any connection with one of the exsisting Grail oders, or with any such societies with similar names? Answer: The Grail papers (Gralsblatter) has no such connection whatever with any of the known orders or societies. In its sbolute independence it would also reject any connection. The Apostle Herbert Vollman was once asked about this change. This was his response: The Gralsblatter (Grail papers) as they had emerged under the direction of Abd-ru-shin do not exist anymore today. These writings were used to make known the Knowledge which was transmited by Abd-ru-shin. They also established the relation between Abd-ru-shin and the human beings who had recognized and were following the Grail Message. After Abd-ru-shin no longer sojourned wmong us tererestrially, and his “Gralsblatter” could no longer function, in its place was set up the “Gralsbewegung”(Grail Movement), under the name of which is today reunited all the Activity of the Grail on earth. Because of this fact, the word “Gralsblatter” was replaced in the Questions and Answers Number 7 with the word “Gralsbewegung”. Please refute the above. shinealight: So why change the German ones two? Was the German language prepared for the message? Justcool said that the German language was as perfect as any language could be during the writing of the Grail message, and hence the language of the Grail Message cannot be improved even grammatically. Is He wrong? Also, rather than changing it to fit the younger generation, why not make the younger generation learn the language of the message? Schools make us learn old English so that we can understand Shakespeare. They don’t translate Shakespeare to fit us, because they revere Shakespeare and know that a lot of the poetry will be lost in the translation. If you revere the Grail message, you must notice that not only does Abd-ru-shin have superb descriptive abilities, he is also poetic. The popetry like music goes straight to the spirit. Try reading the chapter, “Silence” aloud. You will be struck at the arrangement of the words. In time all these will be lost because you guys keep changing words to fit the younger generation. By the way, have you heard the language of the younger generation today? Every sentence has the “F” word and “S”(referring to human secrement) word. Its sad they way things are going, very soon we will see the “F” word on the Grail message or see the Grail message in pidgin English. A friend sent me psalm 23 in Pidgin English! It was blasphemous!!! I tore it to pieces. You and I know that these new editions are made for money. Money is the main motive. shinealight: This shows how much you value the Grail message. “If they considered it expedient…!” Why else would they consider it so if not because of money, for tax purposes! To you it doesn’t matter what Abd-ru-shin said, all that matters is what they(your religion) consider expedient!!? “Practice” you said! Yeah right! Let me register your father’s house as a house of harlots and you won’t mind as long as there are no harlots in it?? If I register you a sex offender in the court or with the authorities, it won’t bother you as long as you don’t practice sex offence What you won’t let others do to you, you will do to the Grail message. Whatever happens to “Love your neighbor as thy self!” shinealight: This is fallacy! I don’t even need to reply to it. Abd-ru-shin never intended to found a church or religion. He brought the Truth, Truth has no religion, no church. shinealight: You are attaching words there to justify it. It didn’t say premature. I believe the word premature was in existence when that verse was written and the writer knows that word very well, yet he didn’t use it. Don’t attach it there, it wasn’t talking about premature, it was talking about the afro-mentioned disintegration. If it meant what you said, the writer would have added that it such worlds would eventually also go through disintegration. Rather it said “thus avoiding a course which must otherwise lead to over-ripeness and disintegration” which is ambiguous and actually means that such worlds will never be disintegrated. If I tell you: ".....you will always remain fresh and healthy and swing in the Laws of Creation, thus avoiding a course which must otherwise lead to old age and death". It simply means that you will never die. If you don’t understand this, then you should consider taking an English class. From my understanding, it is not sin that brings over-ripeness, rather it is a natural stage that all material forms must arrive at. Over-ripeness is like old age, Jesus would have aged too and died if he didn’t die young. shinealight: I repeat, there is nothing like the religion of Truth. Truth has no religion. Religion comes from the word to regulate. They use it to regulate and control both information and the masses. |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by shinealight(m): 12:13pm On Sep 13, 2015 |
latrust: Thanks! I shall definitely consider your advice to take up an English class soonest. Meanwhile I suggest you look deeper in the Message to acquaint yourself of the various things (which are not willed by the Light) that can lead to "over-ripeness". As a pointer, I will give you the following passages to look up: 1.) Vol 2, Lecture 52 "......Since with this ability to make a free decision the spirit-germs do not always choose the way upwards to the Light, a certain increase in the density of the World of Matter not willed by the Light takes place, causing it to become heavier and forcing it down onto a course that leads to over-ripeness and to the funnel which acts like a cleansing filter upon everything, and in which disintegration simultaneously occurs. 2.) Vol. 2, lecture 67 ".....The animal bodies of the most highly developed race of that time, into which no spirit seed-grains incarnated, came to a standstill in their development, however, because the substantiate element within them had already attained to the highest it could and they lacked the power of the spirit to advance further. And with the standstill over-ripeness quickly set in, to be followed by retrogression and disintegration! 3.)Vol 3, Lecture 46 ".....Either the human spirit must swing itself upwards to knowledge or remain stationary, which latter is equivalent to the setting in of decay, due to uselessness consequent upon a stationary human spirit becoming over-ripe through inactivity; a human spirit which no longer knows how to apply the Power of the Light accumulating within it in the right way. Thus that which can and would help it becomes its ruin, as is the case with all energy that is wrongly applied! From the above, we can see that there are "sins" such as wrong decisions by the human spirits which increase the density of the celestial globe, standstill in development contrary to the Law of Motion as well as stationary human spirits who cannot apply the Power of the Light in the right way. All these precipitate over-ripeness which leads to disintegration. WHEN A STATE OF OVER-RIPENESS (WHICH LEADS TO DISINTEGRATION) IS PRECIPITATED BY AN EVENT OR ACTION NOT WILLED BY THE LIGHT OR WHICH CONTRAVENES THE LAWS OF CREATION, THEN THAT ENSUING DISINTEGRATION IS A PREMATURE ONE. THIS GOES WITHOUT SAYING AND THE AUTHOR NEED NOT INSERT THE WORD 'PREMATURE' IN THE TEXT! Best wishes. |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by mnwankwo(m): 3:00pm On Sep 13, 2015 |
Fefe43: Hello Fefe43. Thank you for your kind words. You can send me a personal message on this site and I will reply to it. I wish you strength as you seek for the Truth. Stay blessed. |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by latrust(f): 9:22pm On Sep 13, 2015 |
shinealight: I don't know what you wish to achieve by the above. It has already been explained by justcool that over-ripeness is a stage in the evolution of matter, The stage that is followed by disintegration. He also stated that over-ripeness can be prematurely brought about due to sins, which will also bring about premature disintegration. Sin is not the only thing that brings about over-ripeness!! Even your quote number 2 ( Vol. 2, lecture 67) proves this point. Read you post again and ask your self what sins did the primeval men committed. None, they just reached a stage their substantiate soul could not take them any further and hence became standstill which was immediately followed by over-ripeness! I will give you a quote from the Grail message. Quoting from (Vol. 2, Lecture 48) "Creation proper merely consists of Paradise, the Spiritual Kingdom of today. Everything else is only developed, i.e., no longer really created! And what has been developed must be designated as the World! The World is transient. It develops from the emanations of Creation, imitating the latter in reflections, being driven and sustained by spiritual emanations. It comes to maturity and then disintegrates again through over-ripeness. The spiritual, however, does not age, but remains forever young or, in other words, eternally the same!" Look at the sentence I bolded above!!!! Here he is not talking about sin; he is talking how the world(Material creation) is subject to mature and disintegrate through over-ripeness, as opposed to Paradise which is eternal. Justcool likened over-ripeness to old age, which is always followed by death(disintegration). Matter must grow old mature and go through disintegration though over-ripeness irrespective of the condition of its inhabitants. I can give up to 20 quotes from different lectures of the Grail message where it is maintained that matter must grow old and die. Only once, in the added verse did it say that matter can always remain fresh, avoiding over-ripeness and disintegration. The more I read about this issue, the more I'm convinced. That added verse is definitely not in accord with the rest of the message. If is true that matter can always remain fresh, avoiding over-ripeness and disintegration, then why does the Grail message keep urging us to mature and leave this world of matter that is already at the beginning stage of over-ripeness? Why don't we strive to keep this earth always fresh and healthy, avoiding over-ripeness and disintegration so that we can settle here? The Grail message said that it is the same law that guides both gigantic and small cycles. Hence we should look around us, our physical bodies, or a cornfield. If matter can always remain fresh, avoiding over-ripeness and disintegration therefore our physical bodies can to it too. So if we behave rightly we may never die, our physical bodies will remain fresh, avoiding old age and death. So Jehovah witnesses are right then, we can live forever in an earthly Paradise. I don't know then why we are urged to leave here, since we can keep prolonging it disintegration. Please think independently for once, quit writing the same old thing they teach. The added verse did not say "for a while longer," it said ".....It always remains fresh and healthy and swings in the Laws of Creation, thus avoiding a course which must otherwise lead to over-ripeness and disintegration". This does not suggest a temporal extension of existence. To further buttress this point and show that the passage does not suggest a temporal extension, I will quote more from the passage, "Such parts quite naturally, i.e., by the Will of the Light, wing their way high above the boundary where disintegration sets in." So any part of the material world that keeps swinging way high above the boundary where disintegration sets in will remain disintegrated. But the question a serious seeker should ask himself or herself is this, "Can matter go that high towards the light?" Only the spiritual worlds lie above the boundary of disintegration!! If matter goes that high, wouldn't the nearness to the light consume or disintegrate it? Again why don't we strive to keep the earth above that region, rather than striving out of the world of matter to Paradise? |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by shinealight(m): 10:45pm On Sep 13, 2015 |
@ latrust Thanks again for your comments. I can see that you speak out of inner conviction, but then so do I. One of us is definitely wrong about this. It seems to me self-evident that a man who chooses to smoke 2 or 3 packets of cigarettes a day while injecting his body with foreign substances can trigger a premature ageing of his body leading to a premature death possibly through lung cancer which was not willed for him in the first place. Meanwhile, his peers who comply with the laws of healthy living can live to a ripe old age while 'ageing gracefully in good health' before they eventually have to bow out in death at the right time destined for them. It follows that whenever the laws of Creation have been contravened, what results is a premature and unnatural occurrence. Perhaps one day one of us will see things in a different light! Best wishes. |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by latrust(f): 2:17am On Sep 14, 2015 |
@ shinalight Thank you, I appreciate your effort but you are very right when you said that I am speaking out of conviction. These few exchanges made me delve deeper into this and strengthened my conviction. What you said about ageing and postponing death by good behavior is right, I never doubted that, However, in all honesty that is not what the added verse is saying. Take it to any English professor, the added verse state that: (1) Disintegration is only caused by sin of the inhabitants of the globe (2) Parts of the material world can be raised far above the boundary of disintegration to where it can always remain fresh. You and I know that these two statements are wrong. In your case you refused to see it as it was written, rather you added "eventually," "premature" and "for a while" to it. If the writer had added these phrases then it would have been correct, but he didn't. These phrases were in existence when the verses were written, and I'm sure the writer knows them too well. Yet he refused to add them, thereby making the added verse very ambiguous. Abd-ru-shin is never shy of words while describing things, sometimes he says the same thing many times in different words so that the reader will understand. If that was written by him and as description of a temporary saving of the world, in regards to the saving of the planet he would added, "for a while." The verse that Anna7 quoted from the lecture Christmas!, He clearly said that the saving was for a while. In the example you gave which I agree with, you said, "Meanwhile, his peers who comply with the laws of healthy living can live to a ripe old age while 'ageing gracefully in good health' before they eventually have to bow out in death at the right time destined for them." You didn't say, "Meanwhile, his peers who comply with the laws of healthy living will always remain alive, avoiding old age which will otherwise lead to death." Observe the two sentences and see the difference. Best wishes to you too! In this issue I'm sure and hope that one day you will get it right. I'm extremely sure about this, perhaps woman's intuition. |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by shinealight(m): 11:46am On Sep 17, 2015 |
latrust: The English Professor, French Professor or any Professor in the language into which the Message has been translated cannot tell us the precise intent of the Author of a spiritual Work, the content of which can only be intuitively perceived particularly after it has been tampered with by translators. In this regard, I leave readers of this thread who are in earnest about their spiritual seeking with the following words culled from a Book titled "Irmingard" - Quote: "Each translation of the Message is a help for those who have not mastered the German language. But it should really be regarded only as a help, for any translation, however good according to human opinion, is but piecework. The Holy Word can be fully recognised only in the German language....." Unquote. (bold emphasis mine) latrust: Hmmmm....woman's intuition.... I wouldn't bet on it! However, I thank you for having some confidence that I too may yet see the light! |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by JonesK: 5:01pm On Sep 25, 2015 |
Concerning the use of 'you', can anyone provide clarity please. |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by justcool(m): 9:38pm On Oct 12, 2015 |
@JonesK Your question is very important, and I perceive it's born out of genuine seeking; hence I will share my perception. Also, I noticed that you have asked questions, earlier on this forum, which hasn't been answered. I'm sorry, I just noticed them today. Perhaps you have found the clarity you sought on those issue; otherwise let me know so that I can share my perceptions on them whenever opportunity presents itself. JonesK: There are two German words for the English word "you". The first is "Sie" and the second is "Du." The German language of the Grail message is very refined and hence has a lot of words, each different concept gives rise to a different word. Hence "Sie" and "Du" differs. Apart from being more formal, "Sie" simply means "you"; it simply used to address a different person, the person you are talking to. "Du" also means "you," in that it refers to another person other than the person speaking, but it also refers to another person of equality. "Du" really implies a person who is homogenous to you! In English this refinement does not exist, "you" is simply another person, the person you are speaking to or addressing irrespective of whether she/he is homogenous to you or not. Hence the German words "Sie" most closely translates to the English word "you." As opposed to "du" which implies equality or homogeneity. You can already guess from the above distinction why it is wrong to address everybody with "Du." As you already know, everything, including the words we speak, take on form in the beyond. When you refer to somebody as "Du" you are implying that that person is the same with you! Homogenous to you and at the same level of spiritual maturity with you. Hence with this address forms arise in the beyond closely binding the addresser to the addressee. This then presents a big problem when they pass on because they are not homogenous and will, under normal circumstances, float or sink to different regions of the beyond, regions corresponding strictly to their ethereal weight or their kind. But now due to this unnatural binding, these two individuals cannot be separated after passing on. And remember, that which is lighter can descend lower, while that which is heavier can never rise higher than its weight even by the distance of a hair's breadth. Hence, assuming the addresser is lighter or spiritually higher/nobler (more righteous) than the addressee, after passing on, the lighter soul (the addresser) will be drown into the lower/darker plane where the darker soul (the addressee) belongs. This is why "Du" should be used only among individuals of the same homogeneity. This law does not apply to those in the beyond because there only souls of the same homogeny find each other, or group together in a plane corresponding to their weight, hence they can safely address each other as "Du." That commandment refers to the German word, "Du"; not necessarily the English word, "You." Hence, the Grail message(actually "Resonances to the Grail Message I" ) exhorts us to limit the addressing of a person as "Du" strictly among each other; i.e. among those homogenous to us. Words are more powerful than people think. Even when they are spoken carelessly without intuitive volitions. The sounds carry energy which take on form in the beyond, and these forms correspond to the nature (actual meaning of the word) and not the intention of the speaker. The intention coming either from the spirit or intellect will take on form in a different plane. That which arises from the spirit takes on living forms in the ethereal realm and can send their influences or receive power from higher spiritual planes depending on how pure they are. That which arises from the brain (intellect) will manifest as phantoms in the planes of fine gross matter. While the spoken word will take on form in the planes of medium gross matter. These three can receive link from each other if they are harmonious, and greatly strengthen each other. Whatever the case may be, each of them is linked to the producer; whether they be forms of words, thoughts, or spiritual intention, they are all linked to the producer and will reciprocally influence her/him. This clears the issue about people who think they can say anything as long as they don't intend it. They think that since their words lack real or spiritual intention, that it won’t have any effect. Parents with this false belief often call their kids fools, animals, devils, stupid, ekwensu, ajor nwa(bad child) etc. And when the kids grow up to become irresponsible adults, they (the parents) will blame it on their neighbor’s juju. The words you speak take on form the planes of medium gross matter, a form corresponding or having the energy corresponding to the meaning of the word, whether you mean it or not! If you look carefully and intuitively, you will see that the modern man heaps sins upon sins on himself in this regards. I know a married couple who call each "dear me." The wife calls the husband "Me or dear Me" and the husband does the same. People praise this poisonous outgrowth of modern life, but it is wrong and opposed to the laws of creation. One should never refer to another human being as "me." Often we go to Nigerian homes where the husband joins the children in calling his wife, "mommy" and in some cases the wife also calls her husband "Daddy." It is my perception that all these things are wrong, since they do not correspond to the Truth of their relationship, hence only unhealthy forms and binding can result from them. But it is not wrong for couples who genuinely love each other to address one another as, "My darling, my love, sweetheart, etc." The bottom line is to be truthful and simple in your speaking; we should call anything only what it actually is. We should not call our wives our mother, to avoid wrong knotting of threads that will make our lives difficult and hinder our spiritual accent. Even when traditions or religions teach us to do so, we must not. For the laws of creation and the threads of faith that arise from our actions do not care about our religious laws or practices. We should not refer to another human being as “My Lord.” We have only two Lords: Jesus and Imanuel. To avoid sinning in this regards, Jesus has already shown us the way, "But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.” Thanks and remain blessed. |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by JonesK: 6:32pm On Oct 14, 2015 |
justcool: Thank you justcool for the clarification. You even took it further and thus extended my knowledge and for this, I am grateful. Concerning the other issues, I have gained clarity on my own but if there's anything else that seems obscured to me, I will be sure to ask on this thread knowing that I shall find what I seek. Thank you once again. |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by Tobakunn: 7:44pm On Oct 14, 2015 |
Greetings to everyone on the thread. Can anyone shed more light on music? It's effects, it's manifestations? It's well known to readers of the Message that it speaks to the real ego of man but can anyone take the explanations further? Also, if you are aware of the Texts Received From the Luminous Heights through a pure channel, can you share your thoughts on it? Thanks in advance. Cc:Justcool |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by JonesK: 7:56pm On Oct 17, 2015 |
I know this is a sensitive question but I'm going to ask it for the sake of those of us out here who need understanding in these matters so as to enable us make judgements and decisions that we won't regret. Which of the versions of the Message is the accurate one? Or if I can put it another way, which is the more authentic one among them? This refers to the dissension between the adherents of the 1931 Grand edition and the adherents of the 3-volume edition, also known as the Last Hand. I know well enough that posters on this thread will try as much as possible to refrain from posting their thoughts on such a sensitive issue giving the reason that they do not want to lead seekers astray even though they may possess knowledge that might clarify a lot, and to these I tell that your refusal to share with us seekers your thoughts and opinions on this matter aids in leading us astray for if you know anything that can help another, a responsibility is imposed on you to share this knowledge with the individuals who desire it so as to aid them on their journey. And I desire to hear the thoughts and opinions of those of you who are more seasoned than I am in this issue. It is strange that this dissension exists, you can't read a copy of either versions without adherents from both sides making you feel like you are making a wrong choice. And before I am given the answer to judge with my intuitive perception, let me tell anyone who has the intention to provide me with such response that I have and I know my choice. Knowing my choice does not hinder anyone from providing words that may still aid myself and others for I do NOT know it all. It is also well known that certain publications by the great Master will not be made available to regular people like me unless we show our allegiance to the version upheld by the group which possess these publications with them, I previously tried to acquire a certain publication and was told that I had to fellowship with them to gain access to it, I was disheartened because I do not fellowship anywhere, I read the Message in my room and try exceedingly to live accordingly. It really saddens me that the topic is avoided like a plague, all so that no one will be labelled a troublemaker, a topic which will really help to guide those who have decided to become really and truly awake. I do not ask this to start a quarrel or a virulent and vicious exchange of words between the adherents of both versions but I ask this simply to know. As such, if I will be labelled a troublemaker for asking this, I accept the tag gratefully as long as you all post your thoughts and opinions on it. I do not see any reason why such an important issue should be veiled with smoke or discussed in the shadows so I appeal and urge you all to provide your thoughts and opinions here, on this thread to assist us all. I appeal to you all to let light shine through and enable us to see properly. Also, for individuals that may try to reach me through the email attached to this account, it isn't necessary for the email isn't functioning anymore. I hope that this post strikes a nerve in your hearts and leads you all to post your thoughts on this issue. Thank you all in advance. Finally, it would also be appreciated if someone who is moved to do so, to answer the post above me for I really want to know about music and it's effects. Thank you  |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by ezebrain: 9:48pm On Oct 17, 2015 |
JonesK: This question has been adressed and the answers clearly given in a discussion between justcool and ephisi, at the 4th page of the thread entitled "The Grail Message" by stag. |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by JonesK: 8:02am On Oct 18, 2015 |
ezebrain: Thank you. I shall look for the thread and read what they said. Thank you for responding. |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by justcool(m): 1:41am On Oct 20, 2015 |
Hi Tobakunn Thanks for your questions. Tobakunn: Everything that exists has both color and tone(Musical sound). Indeed both color and tone are inseparably the same, one does not exist without the other. But in the material worlds, due to the density of matter which causes obstruction, they are separated. As an aside note, consider thunder and lightning! They happen at the same time, but the density of the air through which they travel, slows down the speed of sound of the thunder more than that of the light from the lightning. The man observing will see the lightning before the hearing the sound (thunder); to the extent that they appear as different phenomena to men, hence the different names, thunder and lightning. In a medium where there is no heavy density to obstruct the emanated waves, one will hear the sound and see the light at the same time. He will easily understand that it is the same phenomenon that give off sound and light waves at the same time. Color and tone are like thunder and lightning. Every sound (Musical note) has color and every color has a musical note corresponding to it. In the Lighter planes of creation, where there is no density, tone and color always appear as one. Imagine walking through a garden in Paradise, every flower in the garden has a color hence a tone. The resultant of such wonderful combination of flowers is a very enchanting music! Just as every plant strives towards the light, every flower in Paradise, indeed every blade of a flower sings to the Almighty! A symphony of praise to the Almighty, out of whose Will beauties upon beauties arise. Everything, even humans and animals emanate both sound and colors. The higher you go in creation, the purer, clearer, and more vibrant the colors and sound appear. Each spirit in Paradise and each angel or animal swing predominantly in a particular radiation, hence has predominantly a particular color and sound. There disharmony, noise, and ugly blending of colors is impossible, since everybody knows where she or he belongs. Each homogenous species swing predominantly in a particular color. With this mind, it is not hard to imagine that spirits in their joint activity is like an orchestra. Indeed each activity radiates a different music. Since these involve mingling or working together, it is like mingling the notes of a musical instrument! Even the grounds, the seas, the mountains, and the buildings all have colors and hence sounds. Imagine the sound that is jointly emanated from Paradise during their various actives! Even the elementals have colors and hence sounds which mingle and create music during their joint activity! All these pure sounds from the higher planes of creation, radiate both upwards and downwards. Even on earth sensitive souls pick them up and try to emulate them; hence we have things like classical music. Some very gifted ones like Handel, or other highly called ones, though their gift of refined intuitive perception are able to perceive the music resulting from these activities above us and reproduce them with earthly instruments. This is why classical music has the power to awaken a particular or peculiar intuition in some people. Although the music is without words, one can sense the essence of the music. Some may be filled with longing while listening to a particular music, another may be filled with joy, another a liberating bliss, while to another a painful longing, depending on the nature or state of development of the listener. A worldly woman on earth, for example, who has not totally buried her ability to perceive intuitively. She goes to a friend’s house and the friend is playing classical music on a CD player. She intuitively perceives the joyful and righteous activity above from which the music was picked by the composer of the music. It fills her with a painful longing, her spirit wants to join in the activity. And she can, even while on earth; but worldly needs and propensities holds her back. This being held back makes her longing painful; she even sheds a few tears, not knowing exactly why. And finally tells her friend, “Please stop playing this music, it makes me want to cry.” Her friend quickly turns off the music and switches to hip hop; soon they are both laughing and dancing to the hip hop! Classical music easily goes beyond the brain and the intellect because words are usually not used; I perceive it to be the most exalted or the purest form of music. The brain and the intellect do not need to struggle to understand any words; hence, the impressions from the music goes straight to the spirit and awaken particular intuition. The one that is most homogenous, in the memory of the spirit, to the music. But it is not only classical music that has the ability to go beyond the intellect and touch the intuition, some music with singing and even acapella also carry this ability. Some musicians, usually called ones, are gifted with voices that strike an intuitive cord in people. You and I know some of them, I need not mention names; even though many fail their calling by going into worldly music. Some of them succumb to temptations and end up singing songs about sex, worldly romance, or politics, rather than using voices in service of the Almighty by awakening the souls of men. Despite their failure, the power in their voices still draw people to them or their music. Just as the music of the activities of the pure spirits above radiate beyond their borders of their planes, our activities on earth also radiate in sound and color beyond the earth. Every tree on earth, every plant, every mountain, seas etc., all have colors and hence sound. We only perceive the color with our physical eyes, and not the sound due to the density of our material environment and our physical bodies. However, even on earth, there are people gifted with the ability to see the color of sounds. It is an ability that has astounded scientists. Some of the people we describe as having the ability known as Synesthesia are actually gifted people. For example, some synesthetic people see the musical note “C” as red. When the note is played on an instrument, they see a red cloudlike or smoke-like substance emanating from the instrument, just as smoke emanate from burning wood. Imagine what they see when they listen to classical music! Colors dancing! There are people, as well, who hear the sound of colors; this form of synesthesia is called chromesthesia. When a particular color is shown to them, they hear a sound or musical note emanating from it. Some even go as far as having the ability to smell colors and sounds. For example, according to some chromesthic people, the color yellow smells like honey! Some gifted artists(especially composers of classical music) have one form of synesthesia or another, hence they can compose such harmonious tunes, they can easily notice even the smallest note out of tone because they can see or smell the music. Due the failure of mankind, it is mostly noise and disharmonious sounds than emanate from our activities. Only the activities of elemtals still resonate in pure melody in the worlds of matter. These impure sounds resulting from our impure activities can only sink downwards towards the darker or lower planes of matter. Noise from such spheres also reach us here. Sensitive musicians homogenous to such dark planes, can pick up such noises and recreate them with earthly musical instrument. Unfortunately most of the music we listen today emanate from the dark planes. The sounds are hardly peaceful and melodious, the words are about, sex, lust, murder, utter materialism. It does not urge listeners towards longing for the luminous heights, rather it makes you want to take off your cloths, get drunk, smoke and dance. Even the manner of dancing, shows clearly whence such music come from. For to dance means to give form to the music, to swing in its rhythm; it is the music, the rhythm that moves the dancer. Good dancers know how to give up themselves to the rhythm; this is why women who are easily at the mercy of subtler influences or influences from the beyond are better dancers; they offer no resistance to the music. And the music affects them the most! Observe the lives of some of the most popular female hip-hop and rap dancers, and how they almost always end up! With this I don’t perchance condone the conspiracy theories that the internet is filled with. Theories that most of the popular musicians consciously worship the Devil, sell their souls, or sacrifice their loved ones. All that I explained here is at the spiritual level; some hip hop artists are actually outwardly decent people. Even though most of their music serve to facilitate and spread darkness on earth, they do not know this consciously. Due to lack of knowledge of creation, they like the average modern man, see these modern music(raps etc) as harmless pastimes. Some of them started off as ordinary gifted individuals who love music or singing; in their quest to get record deals they meet temptations to which they succumb. A record company may decided to record and promote your song only if you show more skin in the videos, or sing more about sex; because, like they say here in California, sex sells! Hence an innocent aspirant, over time, gives in to the demand of the masses! I.e. incorporates sex into her or his art, either by singing suggestive words or dancing seductively. Most of these musicians are simply victims, not conscious worshipers of darkness; they are no worst than the average man on earth. The mistakes that these conspiracy theorists, and many among mankind, make is that they do not know how subtle darkness is. If darkness was that obvious, if it approaches people and demand they consciously worship it or sell their soul for money and fame, then it would not have won as many souls as it has. Darkness is not that obvious in its workings; if it goes after individuals obviously like that, they will simply run for their lives. Most people will rather remain poor than sign a deal with the Devil. Darkness’ most potent power is that it disguises itself, sometimes appearing as just an inconsequential pastime. That’s how it’s able to creep into otherwise very worthy causes. A little song or rap about sex and drugs, calling women the “h” word and using the “f” word. A little change of few sentences in a Holy message. These seemingly little things have racked havoc on humanity. Think of what has become of the message of Jesus and Muhammed! A little change over here and there, a new translation, here and there; overtime the message has become something else entirely. Tobakunn: I’m aware of the texts but I do not bother about them. I cannot judge them because I haven’t read them all. Many people have sent them to me, some asking me questions about them which I always refuse to reply or answer. Like I will always tell people: The Grail Message contains all that we need to know to succeed spiritually in subsequent creation. Whoever holds the Grail message in his hands and still seek more has not arrived at the faintest idea of what he holds in his hands. When he finally delves into the message with all his strength, he will receive from it all that he will ever need. The question I will always ask is this: “Rather than striving towards the pure channels and what they receive, why don’t you strive to become pure yourself?” I’m really happy you asked this question; I will use this opportunity to explain to those who have e-mailed me with questions regarding the contents of the received texts, and received no reply from me. I simply do not share my perceptions on anything other than the Grail message and the texts that were published in the vicinity or proximity to Abdrushin while He was on earth. Thanks and remain blessed. |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by Tobakunn: 8:47pm On Oct 23, 2015 |
@Justcool, Gratitude for your reply. The insight and clarity with which you dissect questions and provide appropriate responses are admirable. I thank the Lord for bestowing you with such knowledge so as to be able to help those of us who desire to know and I also thank you for your assistance by answering our questions. Thank you. If I have any more questions, I'll be sure to post them here for such comprehensive replies. Gratitude, once again. Peace and blessings to you. |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by Tobakunn: 7:12pm On Oct 26, 2015 |
Greetings, I want to share a peculiar experience I had as a young adolescent which has always confounded me with the hope that someone who possesses much greater knowledge than I will be able to clarify it for me or rather, share their perceptions with me. As a young boy, I came across a man who was an Ifa priest (I don't know if you are aware of Ifa, its panegyrics and its priests, I hope you are but I can provide clarification where needed to the extent that I can). He struck me and we ended up having a sit-down. He proceeded to cast Ifa in the way they usually do it and told me certain specific things about myself, he also gave me some advice which have been valuable to my life and told me about occurrences/scenarios which concern me that haven't taken place yet and went on to provide more advice on how to act when these occurrences/scenarios finally happened; they involved regular activities and regular and some irregular people and personalities, they were situations which I would not have attached special importance to. And in time, they occurred exactly as he foretold and I acted accordingly. Over the course of the years, I meet him from time to time and he provides more advice and prayers, also giving me pointers about living my life accordingly and aided in me discarding some filthy habits. He allows me to ask questions but they must not be superficial and must concern things involving my life in its entirety, he even selects questions to provide answers to and when he tells me something will happen, it always happens exactly as he told me. He also warns severely against depending on answers to all my life's problems from Ifa, he says there are some things to be learnt through mistakes and he always only advices, never compels in any way. He has even provided me with information concerning certain foods to avoid after which I noticed an improvement in my health after adhering to his advice. My question now is how can someone with the aid of the diety known as Ifa foretell the future with relative accuracy? I do not understand how and I have a feeling that I will meet him again soon, I just want to know what happens really during these our meetings. If anyone has a perception on my experience which they wish to share, I will be grateful because I really do not understand it completely myself. Thank you in advance. Cc: Justcool. Modified. |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by Nobody: 4:16pm On Oct 28, 2015 |
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| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by aGerald(m): 11:20pm On Oct 29, 2015 |
Blatantly, the new testament also contradicts the old testament. Men can't do without confusion, can they? Maybe we love it. Well I need not worry myself if I should ever get my hands on the old version of the Grail message. I'll just use good old 'Merger'. This is just exactly how I read the bible. I can't just dump the old testament, because Jesus didn't come for this to happen. Also, I wouldn't dump the new testament because that's just not right! So what do I do? I read both testament, and let the Grace of God guide me. Maybe there is a purpose of having two versions of the Grail message: to separate the wheat from the chaff |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by aGerald(m): 11:53pm On Oct 29, 2015 |
mnwankwo: 2 Likes |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by Anna7: 9:42am On Oct 31, 2015 |
[quote author=Tobakunn post=39292133]@Justcool, Gratitude for your reply. The insight and clarity with which you dissect questions and provide appropriate responses are admirable. I thank the Lord for bestowing you with such knowledge so as to be able to help those of us who desire to know and I also thank you for your assistance by answering our questions. Thank you. If I have any more questions, I'll be sure to post them here for such comprehensive replies. Gratitude, once again. Peace and blessings to you. |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by Anna7: 9:44am On Oct 31, 2015 |
I feel the same way and thank Justcool for his answers and help to the readers of the Grail Message. 1 Like |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by Speer: 6:36am On Nov 17, 2015 |
Hello, just wanted to share this write-up: Who are the "Poor in spirit"? It is recorded in the Bible that Jesus said: "Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven" (Matthew 5:3) Many interpretations have been given of this simple statement, conveying a sense of poverty, meekness, humility, submissiveness, sacrifice, etc. One can understand perhaps where these interpretations have come from, given that spirituality in many religions has often gone hand in hand with a giving up of wealth and personal assets, donations to poor or to charities, etc. However, Jesus always spoke from the viewpoint of the Spiritual Realm, the origin of the human spirit, that is, where the human spirit actually begins its wandering through the Creations as a spirit-seed. Hence his words always took effect there and were directly applicable to this Realm. The interpretation of "poverty" has unfortunately been ascribed to Jesus for many reasons relating to the personal life of Jesus, not the least of which was the fact that he was born in a manger and was moreover the son of a carpenter. Also because he instructed at least one person, a rich man who had become spiritually enslaved by his wealth, to give all of his possessions away. (Matthew 19:16-30, Mark 10:17-31, Luke 18:18-30) Yet it is forgotten that Jesus also dined with many rich people, and it is rather doubtful he instructed all of them to give away their wealth. Moreover, that he was the son of a carpenter does not mean that he was poor - a carpenter's profession was an honourable and profitable one. And that he was born in a manger was an outcome of the circumstances at that time - there was no room for Joseph and his then pregnant wife Mary to stay when they went for the census. Hence, the idea that Jesus embraced or even advocated poverty as a part of his Teaching is somewhat misguided. When Jesus spoke of the "poor in spirit", he meant an entirely different concept. To be poor means - as per the definition of the word - to have little or no money, wealth or goods. "In spirit" refers to the spiritual state itself. The spirit of man, the real core of his being, which is referred to in the ancient Vedic texts as atman, is being meant here. Those who are "poor in spirit" are they who, even at the height of their development in the Spiritual sense, do not consider anything their own. Thus, whether on Earth, or in the Fine-Material World of the Beyond, or in the Highest Luminous Heights of the Spiritual Paradise - our true home - they have evolved into spiritual personalities who do not make any claim to any part of Creation, including their own spiritual personalities. They are so poor that they do not even claim any ownership of their own spirit, but use it as a tool or instrument of God! Rather, these ones have submitted their entire being and nature to God, and regard even their bodies, cloaks, garments, etc. and any property entrusted to them, be it land, homes, wealth or fame, as the unequivocal property of God. They regard themselves as mere administrators of what God has given them, not as proprietors, for God alone is The Sole Proprietor of everything in Creation! Thus, to be "poor in spirit" means to regard everything that one has, including one's own spiritual personality as not belonging to oneself, but to God alone. It is these persons, who are poor in spirit, who will inherit the "Kingdom of Heaven", as Jesus said. For the "Kingdom of Heaven", our Eternal Home, our Paradise, the true Sayujya (Sanskrit term), only admits such persons! Copyright www.sphatik.com by Sariputta 2 Likes |
| Re: Inquiry For Justcool And M_nwankwo And Other Adherents Of The Grail Message by Speer: 7:18am On Dec 01, 2015 |
Hello @ Tobakunn, Thanks for the inquiry on the subject of music, was on my list as well. @Justcool, Hello and Salut, Had please wanted to ask about the mission of the Son of God. How was the knowledge of and the message of his mission disseminated through the ethereal planes of our planet (in Ephesus)----both at His time and after his departure from the earth..............and ever since? Given that His mission was undertaken in somewhat of a haste, I presume that perhaps not much or enough prep work was possible in the ethereal planes before His arrival.................and I cannot perceive what happened after His departure from the Earth. Gracias and have a light week............. |
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