logicboy:

Emotions- explained with chemical reactions in our bodies

Thoughts- controlled by brain

Consciousness- controlled by brain

Just because you're ignorant doesnt mean God created everything

Because that was quite the intelligent statement. You just made observations, not explanations. You didn't explain any processes, anything at all except that all those things take place in our head. I can say photosynthesis takes place in trees, but that doesn't mean I know how it works. Your argument there was ignorant.

bigd4050:

Because that was quite the intelligent statement. You just made observations, not explanations. You didn't explain any processes, anything at all except that all those things take place in our head. I can say photosynthesis takes place in trees, but that doesn't mean I know how it works. Your argument there was ignorant.

You were the one that ignorantly claimed that science could not explain these things;

"Can science explain how humans have thoughts, emotions, and conscienceness? No it can't yet we know these thing to exist"

Scientist have mapped out parts of the brain that carry out some thought processes. Because you are ignorant, you say science cant explain it and God exists.

Science can not explain everything but it has done a great job explaining most part of our lives compared to christianity or religion.

logicboy:

You were the one that ignorantly claimed that science could not explain these things;

"Can science explain how humans have thoughts, emotions, and conscienceness? No it can't yet we know these thing to exist"

Scientist have mapped out parts of the brain that carry out some thought processes. Because you are ignorant, you say science cant explain it and God exists.

Science can not explain everything but it has done a great job explaining most part of our lives compared to christianity or religion.

And my claim still stands. I can map out how a building should look, doesn't mean I know how it's built. You continue to call me names that do not fit, because you don't prove anything.

I'm glad science has given us a lot of good things. It doesn't mean its infallible. And your arguments are. Don't tell me that Christianity doesn't explain how life began if the best alternative you have is "well science might found out how life exists one day..I just don't agree with you"

logicboy:

You were the one that ignorantly claimed that science could not explain these things;

"Can science explain how humans have thoughts, emotions, and conscienceness? No it can't yet we know these thing to exist"

Scientist have mapped out parts of the brain that carry out some thought processes. Because you are ignorant, you say science cant explain it and God exists.

Science can not explain everything but it has done a great job explaining most part of our lives compared to christianity or religion.

Since you failed to explain the origin of the matter that forms everything, and a sound reason why matter was forming complex things. This means you dont know what happened in the very beginning. And if you cant explain what happened at the very start, what makes you qualified to say there was no creator?

bigd4050:

And my claim still stands. I can map out how a building should look, doesn't mean I know how it's built. You continue to call me names that do not fit, because you don't prove anything.

I'm glad science has given us a lot of good things. It doesn't mean its infallible. And your arguments are. Don't tell me that Christianity doesn't explain how life began if the best alternative you have is "well science might found out how life exists one day..I just don't agree with you"

What? Science can not explain these things? How do you expect me not to call you ignorant?

Science has drugs to make you unconscious, there are drugs to make you happy (anti-depressants), drugs to energize you, drugs to stimulate you brain etc yet you have the nerve to say that science can not explain the workings of the brain or our emotions? Science can not explain 100% of the brain but so far it has gone to explain and understand most of it's functions.

If you can map out the framework or blueprint of a building, what stops from understanding how it's built? you might not be able to build but you have a basic idea of it's structures and and different parts. Why are you just ignorant?

Blackteeth:

If you are refering to God as life, then we dont know about its origin. But if you are refering to humans as life, then it has an origin.

For your second paragraph, are you saying everything has no begining of existence?

If nothing created the sun to give life on earth like you believe, why is it impossible for nothing to create a supernatural being to create the sun and life?

I was speaking about the phenomenon Life, not cockroach life or human life. If as you claim has a designer, then God who is life must have a designerm pls resolve this paradox.

Yes all existence has no beginning. Supernatural concept means an entity can beyond its nature/character and that's irrational and inconsistent. There can't be supernatural as a result. Animists do worship Natural objects.

Kay 17:

I was speaking about the phenomenon Life, not cockroach life or human life. If as you claim has a designer, then God who is life must have a designerm pls resolve this paradox.

Yes all existence has no beginning. Supernatural concept means an entity can beyond its nature/character and that's irrational and inconsistent. There can't be supernatural as a result. Animists do worship Natural objects.

This makes no sense:: All existence have no beginning?

We know the universe began to exist, or do you deny that?

logicboy:

What? Science can not explain these things? How do you expect me not to call you ignorant?

Science has drugs to make you unconscious, there are drugs to make you happy (anti-depressants), drugs to energize you, drugs to stimulate you brain etc yet you have the nerve to say that science can not explain the workings of the brain or our emotions? Science can not explain 100% of the brain but so far it has gone to explain and understand most of it's functions.

If you can map out the framework or blueprint of a building, what stops from understanding how it's built? you might not be able to build but you have a basic idea of it's structures and and different parts. Why are you just ignorant?

Lol I'll concede that point about emotions to you. I would say we have them pretty well figured out. That whole last post might have just been one of my worst ever. My mistake. That's how we learn though eh?

bigd4050:

Lol I'll concede that point about emotions to you. I would say we have them pretty well figured out. That whole last post might have just been one of my worst ever. My mistake. That's how we learn though eh?

And I'll say that I'm sorry for calling you ignorant! Cheers

tbaba1234:

This makes no sense:: All existence have no beginning?

We know the universe began to exist, or do you deny that?

what can exist prior to existence?? Fantasy?? Unreality? Everything is eternal either as a potential or actuality.

And you bailed out on the legacy of evil thread!

Kay 17: what can exist prior to existence?? Fantasy?? Unreality? Everything is eternal either as a potential or actuality.

And you bailed out on the legacy of evil thread!

All the questions on the legacy of evil thread had been answered. I would just keep repeating myself.... Not my favorite sport.

Firstly, we are looking at existence in relation to our existence.

By necessity, the creator of the universe must exist outside of it. Otherwise, we end up with the absurd conclusion that the universe created itself. Meaning it existed and didn't exist at the same time. The cause of the universe therefore has to be outside it.

We know that our universe began to exist:: This existence is independent of its creator.

Your statement does not even make scientific sense:

Before the universe there was nothingness::: where is the potential that is eternal?

The only eternal manifestation must be the cause of all that exists(from our perspective). We (muslims) have good reasons to believe that is God. Because the attributes this cause exhibits is coherent with the muslim definition of God.

tbaba1234:

All the questions on the legacy of evil thread had been answered. I would just keep repeating myself.... Not my favorite sport.

Firstly, we are looking at existence in relation to our existence.

By necessity, the creator of the universe must exist outside of it. Otherwise, we end up with the absurd conclusion that the universe created itself. Meaning it existed and didn't exist at the same time. The cause of the universe therefore has to be outside it.

We know that our universe began to exist:: This existence is independent of its creator.

Your statement does not even make scientific sense:

Before the universe there was nothingness::: where is the potential that is eternal?

False, the scientific explanation says which is what we know says that the universe began to expand from a singularity, the singularity is not nothing. . . .Its false to say before the universe, there was nothing. . .What the singularity is , we don't know and that is what scientist are trying to figure out. . .

The only eternal manifestation must be the cause of all that exists(from our perspective). We (muslims) have good reasons to believe that is God. Because the attributes this cause exhibits is coherent with the muslim definition of God.

Contradictory attributes like all merciful and justice, no?. . .Mercy means treating people better than they deserve, while justice means means to disburse the right retribution, how then can you say that allah is all merciful and a god of justice at the same time?. . . .

Blackteeth:
Since you failed to explain the origin of the matter that forms everything, and a sound reason why matter was forming complex things. This means you dont know what happened in the very beginning. And if you cant explain what happened at the very start, what makes you qualified to say there was no creator?

What? Did I not mention the Big Bang theory? You want me to start writing pages on it?

Burden of proof lies on the maker of the claim. Your intelligent design is a debunked myth. Where is your proof of God?

logicboy:

What? Did I not mention the Big Bang theory? You want me to start writing pages on it?

Burden of proof lies on the maker of the claim. Your intelligent design is a debunked myth. Where is your proof of God?

And where is your own proof of matter assembling to form complex things without a guiding force?

mazaje:

False, the scientific explanation says which is what we know says that the universe began to expand from a singularity, the singularity is not nothing. . . .Its false to say before the universe, there was nothing. . .What the singularity is , we don't know and that is what scientist are trying to figure out. . .

Contradictory attributes like all merciful and justice, no?. . .Mercy means treating people better than they deserve, while justice means means to disburse the right retribution, how then can you say that allah is all merciful and a god of justice at the same time?. . . .

Before the singularity, if you go further back there was nothingness, the energy balance was once zero. ...

The physicist P. C. W. Davies explains,

“If we extrapolate this prediction to its extreme, we reach a point when all distances in the universe have shrunk to zero. An initial cosmological singularity therefore forms a past temporal extremity to the universe. We cannot continue physical reasoning, or even the concept of spacetime, through such an extremity. For this reason most cosmologists think of the initial singularity as the beginning of the universe. On this view the big bang represents the creation event; the creation not only of all the matter and energy in the universe, but also of spacetime itself.” (P. C. W. Davies, “Spacetime Singularities in Cosmology,” in The Study of Time III, ed. J. T. Fraser (Berlin: Springer Verlag, 1978), pages 78–79.)

The Quran asks that question:

“Or were they created by nothing? Or were they the creators (of themselves)? Or did they create heavens and earth? Rather, they are not certain.” Quran 52:35-36

The big bang model itself has a finite beginning:

Alex Vilenkin another cosmologist says:

“It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. With the proof now in place, cosmologists can no longer hide behind the possibility of a past-eternal universe. There is no escape, they have to face the problem of a cosmic beginning.”[ Alex Vilenkin, Many Worlds in One: The Search for Other Universe. Hill and Wang. 2006, page 176.]

So our universe did not always exist. there was a cause. if the theory is right, then something caused the initial explosion.

It only does if you look at one trait individually without looking at both.

When muslims say God is entirely merciful, we look at it from the point of view that everything on this earth is a gift, everything we have is a gift. so everything is a mercy.

As a muslim, if i get punished for a crime i committed in the world. As a result of that punishment, that sin is expiated and i do not have to account for it in the hereafter. If i lose anything as a result of that punishment, it wasn't mine to begin with,the gifts that i still possess are a mercy to me.

So Justice from God is not an absence of mercy, because everything we have is a mercy... Nothing belongs to us.

Please watch this to understand the muslim understanding


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zxuQvNVDzU

There are no contradictions.

tbaba1234:

All the questions on the legacy of evil thread had been answered. I would just keep repeating myself.... Not my favorite sport.

Firstly, we are looking at existence in relation to our existence.

By necessity, the creator of the universe must exist outside of it. Otherwise, we end up with the absurd conclusion that the universe created itself. Meaning it existed and didn't exist at the same time. The cause of the universe therefore has to be outside it.

We know that our universe began to exist:: This existence is independent of its creator.

Your statement does not even make scientific sense:

Before the universe there was nothingness::: where is the potential that is eternal?

The only eternal manifestation must be the cause of all that exists(from our perspective). We (muslims) have good reasons to believe that is God. Because the attributes this cause exhibits is coherent with the muslim definition of God.

A conclusion that an absolute void existed and from within the Universe popped is logically impossible. An deep analysis indicates a contradiction and we have never had it in our experience/commonsense, that barren emptiness is productive in any sense. Same goes with a conscious creative agent weaving out the entire universe out of nothing. It is neither reason nor science, but magic.

If such an entity is capable of such, its reasonable to believe such a being is likewise logically impossible.

Accordingly its fallacy and a paradox to conclude everything is created if design is present. Because the designer himself/herself will be subjected to such premise and the absurdity of infinite regress takes over. A new premise will be needed.

To Science, the universe is said to arise from a super compressed bit: point of singularity. Which also accounts for all the matter and energy present in the Universe today. Before the singularity are big ? ?.

Logic Mind:

Yes. If you put bacteria under a microscope and add a little penicilin, although some of them will die, you can actually "observe" the rest for days changing and adapting to what is a great threat to their life. if you continue applying tiny amounts of penicilin, over a period of time, months, sometimes weeks, their offsprings will "evolve" to a new type of bacteria that is completely immune to penicilin because they inherited resistant genes from their parents.

that's what we all do. we evolve by transfering adaptative genes to our offsprings. and it is an extremely slow process.

I thought you were intelligent. SO GROWTH IS THE SAME THING AS EVOLUTION?

BACTERIA GROWTH IS THE SAME AS EVOLUTION? BACTERIA REACTION TO EXTERNAL CONDITIONS IS YOUR DEFINITION OF EVOLUTION? THEN YOU HAVE WASTED PARENT'S INVESTMENTS

brainpulse:

I thought you were intelligent. SO GROWTH IS THE SAME THING AS EVOLUTION?

BACTERIA GROWTH IS THE SAME AS EVOLUTION? BACTERIA REACTION TO EXTERNAL CONDITIONS IS YOUR DEFINITION OF EVOLUTION? THEN YOU HAVE WASTED PARENT'S INVESTMENTS

Typical response; trying to use ridicule when someone's point destorys your argument in such a way that you can't argue against it!

brainpulse:

I thought you were intelligent. SO GROWTH IS THE SAME THING AS EVOLUTION?

BACTERIA GROWTH IS THE SAME AS EVOLUTION? BACTERIA REACTION TO EXTERNAL CONDITIONS IS YOUR DEFINITION OF EVOLUTION? THEN YOU HAVE WASTED PARENT'S INVESTMENTS

where did i say growth?
I was talking about genetic mutations and survival of the fittest.
let me break it down for you as simply as I can.
-penicilin is poisinous to bacteria.
-some bacteria have more penicilin resistant genes that the others
-those with less resistant gene die off when penicilin is applied
-those with more resistant genes survive and transer these genes to their offsprings
-new generation all resist penicilin

Now this is a reaction to only one element. There are other reactions to a whole lot of different elements and changing environments, forcing organisms to constantly mutate and adapt, thus evolve.

When you consider that humans have less than 5% genetic difference with apes after millions of years of mutation, you will begin to understand that observable genetic mutation in bacteria is huge.

@blackteeth u kinda made sense sha and I think we(theist and atheist) are saying the same thing. some call it God ,others call it the big bang. in as much as something came out.wether 4rm something or 4rm nothing the most important thing is dat something came out.I am not a religious person tho but I surely biliv in a creator , u can call it wateva u want the big bang,evolution,mother nature or God .I,ll call wat sparked my existence my creator
On the issue of religion it wuz manmade ,and dat is dat .jesus didn't die 4 anybody ,evribody wuld surely die their own death .he wuz a religious man dat did a lot of gud things sha but had his flaws like evribody else .on the issue of praying or talking to the sky ,its vain and useless cuz u can only cause change in ur life or environment by been hardworking and positve thots .4 instance the cars ,and other beautiful thngs we see came 4rm people dat donnot biliv in a God
One big question 4 the christians dat claim to worship the real God how come u guys don't have much to offer the world than too much talk. naijirians depend so much on guds 4rm asia to survive. u can name it ,and this people are predominantly hinduist and budhist

Lol, @BlackTeeth, Its called Evolution. Go read your Biology texts. You seem to forget this our planet is just a tiny speck in the sea ofthe universe. Life is just an accident of Nature. I just joined Nairaland recently. This is my first post. I thought I was the only one, I'm glad there are other atheists in this religion infested country. For those Christians/Muslims etc who are scared of using their brains. Here are a few sites that might help you realise that your Big sky daddy is Imaginary. Www.ebonmusings.com (my favorite) www.godisimaginary.com, www.godlessgeeks.com www.jesusneverexisted.com, www.whygodwonthealamputees.com, www.evilbible.com and lots more. As for JC and his 12 merrymen, he is almost a semi historical character. Regardless of his fame, there isnt any contemporary evidence that he even existed. The only data we have are the orthodox gospels and gnostic gospels. It might surprise you that the genuine Pauline epistles give no evidence of a historical Jesus. Except the fake ones identified. I'm sorry, but ur bible is not as infallible s your pastors tell you. Archaelogical evidence has revealed a lot of things, For example. 1. Your King David and his son were nothing more than Tribal chiefs, They weren't as the bible claimed they were. 2. The book of Daniel has been proved a forgery, written during the Macabbean period, this means the prophecies therein as fake. Its just like me writing a book and prophesying the death of say, Yar'Adua and Independence of Nigeria. Other fake books are James, Esther, 2 Peter, Jude etc. 3. During the time of Jesus, there was never a town called Nazareth. 4. The gospels we have contradict themselves so much, who saw Jesus first?, How many women were at the tomb? How many years did his ministry last? 5. This doesnt need to be mentioned, But Genesis is just a mess, Like every reasonable person knows, Creationism is a joke. 6. The bible is full of contradictions, check out www.1001biblecontradictions.com, + why would a benevolent-omnipotent God create this mess of a world, while he keeps frying almost literally every human being that dies in his big fire. All because of one fruit. If I were given Omnipotency for just one day, I'm sure I'll do a better work than your sky daddy Is he that lazy?. Why would an all loving God create a baby suffering from Cancer right from birth? Isnt that wickedness? The truth is that Christianity is a lucky religion, If Constantine hadnt fancied it, By now, We might not even know about it. Or it would be a minor religion. Why doesnt God pull those stunts it claimed to perform in the bible? Why show show yourselves to scientific primitive men? No matter what your T.B joshua might show you, its a record. No supernatural event has ever occured under control with no scientific explanation, (hy wont God heal an amputee?. As for Islam, I dont know much about it, But I've never believed it.

^ We can use our brains, talk about Islam and how the existence of God makes sense if you want...

tbaba1234: ^ We can use our brains, talk about Islam and how the existence of God makes sense if you want...

Sharaap there.

This is really weird arguing how the universe came into existed. Science does not claim to know everything. This is called The First Curse Argument. Just to summarise it, According to theists, everything has a cause, so if we keep going back the chain of causes, there is a first cause, and that is God. This is a really old argument, It has already been disproved. When we say God caused the universe, why do we stop there? Isnt that double standard? Following the theory, The next question should be, "What caused God?" "X caused God" who caused X?" "Y caused X"... The chain is infinite. So you have no proof to say God is the first cause . Is it really harder to believe that the Universe (Which we all see with our eyes. And can be confirmed to exist) has no beginning than That "God" (whom we know sod all about and cant even confirm his exist) has no beginning? If we can call anything "God", Its the universe. And we are the makers of our destiny, Life is just a short glimpse of this awesome universe. Live it to the full, so that in yrs to come, People will remember and admire you, just like we admire Einstein and co, If there's anything like Immortality, THIS is it. Dont waste your precious short life thinking and dreaming of another life that doesnt exist, while you ignore the one you had. Make something with the one you have, help build the world we can see. Dont be scared of what happens after. Its logical for humans to get scared of death. Death isnt that scary. We've been dead for eternity b4 our births, why get scared of the one after?

logicboy:

You were the one that ignorantly claimed that science could not explain these things;

"Can science explain how humans have thoughts, emotions, and conscienceness? No it can't yet we know these thing to exist"

Scientist have mapped out parts of the brain that carry out some thought processes. Because you are ignorant, you say science cant explain it and God exists.

Science can not explain everything but it has done a great job explaining most part of our lives compared to christianity or religion.

It surprises me that atheists always say this. The fact that a thing has a scientific explanation is no reason to suppose it uncreated. Everything, anyhow, must needs have a scientifc explanation. That is because everything is natural. That is no reason to suppose material nature to be its own cause.

trent9002: Lol, @BlackTeeth, Its called Evolution. Go read your Biology texts. You seem to forget this our planet is just a tiny speck in the sea ofthe universe. Life is just an accident of Nature. I just joined Nairaland recently. This is my first post. I thought I was the only one, I'm glad there are other atheists in this religion infested country. For those Christians/Muslims etc who are scared of using their brains. Here are a few sites that might help you realise that your Big sky daddy is Imaginary. Www.ebonmusings.com (my favorite) www.godisimaginary.com, www.godlessgeeks.com www.jesusneverexisted.com, www.whygodwonthealamputees.com, www.evilbible.com and lots more. As for JC and his 12 merrymen, he is almost a semi historical character. Regardless of his fame, there isnt any contemporary evidence that he even existed. The only data we have are the orthodox gospels and gnostic gospels. It might surprise you that the genuine Pauline epistles give no evidence of a historical Jesus. Except the fake ones identified. I'm sorry, but ur bible is not as infallible s your pastors tell you. Archaelogical evidence has revealed a lot of things, For example. 1. Your King David and his son were nothing more than Tribal chiefs, They weren't as the bible claimed they were. 2. The book of Daniel has been proved a forgery, written during the Macabbean period, this means the prophecies therein as fake. Its just like me writing a book and prophesying the death of say, Yar'Adua and Independence of Nigeria. Other fake books are James, Esther, 2 Peter, Jude etc. 3. During the time of Jesus, there was never a town called Nazareth. 4. The gospels we have contradict themselves so much, who saw Jesus first?, How many women were at the tomb? How many years did his ministry last? 5. This doesnt need to be mentioned, But Genesis is just a mess, Like every reasonable person knows, Creationism is a joke. 6. The bible is full of contradictions, check out www.1001biblecontradictions.com, + why would a benevolent-omnipotent God create this mess of a world, while he keeps frying almost literally every human being that dies in his big fire. All because of one fruit. If I were given Omnipotency for just one day, I'm sure I'll do a better work than your sky daddy Is he that lazy?. Why would an all loving God create a baby suffering from Cancer right from birth? Isnt that wickedness? The truth is that Christianity is a lucky religion, If Constantine hadnt fancied it, By now, We might not even know about it. Or it would be a minor religion. Why doesnt God pull those stunts it claimed to perform in the bible? Why show show yourselves to scientific primitive men? No matter what your T.B joshua might show you, its a record. No supernatural event has ever occured under control with no scientific explanation, (hy wont God heal an amputee?. As for Islam, I dont know much about it, But I've never believed it.

I will urge you to separate the religious notions of God, which can be quite ridiculous, from the logical and philosophical construct of the necessary existence of an Eternal Primordial Cause: which is what God really is.

Deep Sight:

It surprises me that atheists always say this. The fact that a thing has a scientific explanation is no reason to suppose it uncreated. Everything, anyhow, must needs have a scientifc explanation. That is because everything is natural. That is no reason to suppose material nature to be its own cause.

There is no single proof of creation. No single proof of God. No single proof that prayer is effective.


Tell me why I should listen to creationism. Science and evolution have proof/evidence on its side.

trent9002: This is really weird arguing how the universe came into existed. Science does not claim to know everything. This is called The First Curse Argument. Just to summarise it, According to theists, everything has a cause, so if we keep going back the chain of causes, there is a first cause, and that is God. This is a really old argument, It has already been disproved. When we say God caused the universe, why do we stop there? Isnt that double standard? Following the theory, The next question should be, "What caused God?" "X caused God" who caused X?" "Y caused X"... The chain is infinite. So you have no proof to say God is the first cause . Is it really harder to believe that the Universe (Which we all see with our eyes. And can be confirmed to exist) has no beginning than That "God" (whom we know sod all about and cant even confirm his exist) has no beginning? If we can call anything "God", Its the universe. And we are the makers of our destiny, Life is just a short glimpse of this awesome universe. Live it to the full, so that in yrs to come, People will remember and admire you, just like we admire Einstein and co, If there's anything like Immortality, THIS is it. Dont waste your precious short life thinking and dreaming of another life that doesnt exist, while you ignore the one you had. Make something with the one you have, help build the world we can see. Dont be scared of what happens after. Its logical for humans to get scared of death. Death isnt that scary. We've been dead for eternity b4 our births, why get scared of the one after?

Fair enough. But I'd disagree on the universe being eternal in the past. Current scientific thinking does not say so. As far as we know, the universe commenced from the point of a singularity at a finite determinable point in the past.

Thus the question of the universe being self-existent is ruled out.

If the universe is not self-existent, then it must have a cause or trigger.

And since the universe is material, then that cause or trigger could not itself be matter, as no effect is its own cause.

As such, it is logical to presuppose a non-material pre-existent cause.

This is what is called God.

logicboy:

There is no single proof of creation. No single proof of God.

Oh no, none at all;, except that astonishing super-computer within your head which enables you to write, right?

That thing is sufficient proof of the existence of a causative intelligence behind this reality which we apprehend: it seals the discourse: to all but the willfully blind materialist - and might I add, unscientific atheist.

No single proof that prayer is effective.

This discussion is about the existence of God, and not about the efficacy of prayer. There are theists who do not believe in prayer. Most Deists don't.

Tell me why I should listen to creationism. Science and evolution have proof/evidence on its side.

Every known scientific canon leans towards creationism.

Deep Sight:

I will urge you to separate the religious notions of God, which can be quite ridiculous, from the logical and philosophical construct of the necessary existence of an Eternal Primordial Cause: which is what God really is.

I think most atheists believe in that type of god. An impersnal unintelligent force. Random chance. Btw I saw your thread about proof for a god a whille back, you are smarter than the ususal theist rabble on nl

@deepsight, I didnt assert that the universe was eternal, I was illustrating the fallacy of God being eternal. The non material pre existence cause you mentioned, that's just circular reasoning. The cycle continues, "Who caused Nonmaterial P.E.C" "x caused it". Therefore that non material cause is not eternal, One of the qualities of God is Eternity, Therefore that force cannot be God. Why the big bang occured is cos the entropy of the system increased. 2nd law of thermodynamics explains that. Everything moves from a state of orderliness to disorderliness. That disorderliness resulted to the big bang. You've made no point

Deep Sight:


Every known scientific canon leans towards creationism.

And you have the nerve to call me unscientific?