raumdeuter:


Of all the posters you have made a more coherent argument that the others before you.

But I would present some counter to it. In recent times e.g in the last 10yrs results have shown More clubs winning the Bundesliga than in the EPL.

In the last 10yrs, Bremen, Stuttgart, Wolfsburg and Dortmund in addition to Bayern have won. while EPL in the last 10yrs has Arsenal, Chelsea City and Man Utd.

Before the start of this season many analysts have Chelsea winning the league infact all Betting odds favoured Chelsea before the league kicked off(I posted it on this thread), the same way they would have favoured Bayern in the Bundesliga and Juventus in the Serrie A.

Only La Liga can be said to have the level of uncertainty prior to the start of the season and even till now

At the beginning of this season many analysts thought Dortmund with their added depth and Bayern struggles would win the league especially with the way they blew Bayern out in the Supercup but as its turning out right now, Dormund is even struggling to win lower table sides

Despite the counter, the bane of the discussion is about predictabilty. For instance, at certain times last season, one of Arsenal, City, Chelsea and Liverpool were going to win the league. And I refer to the latter parts of the season.

So a few teams over the years may have punctured the perpetuity that is Bayern Munich in Germany, every season, until it changes, I tip Bayern to win the league unchallenged. And I speak for many people.

Funny enough, it turns out to be so most times than not. That's extreme predictability.

nateevs:



That is a 1 in 4 probability and still more of a task predicting the eventual champions. The same cannot be said about the Bundesliga and that is the point.

Haha No it's not

Bayern, Dortmund, Wolfsburg and Stuggart have won it in the last 7 seasons

Unlike Manyoo, City, and Chelsea in the same time frame.

If you stretch the time frame to the last 10 years, you will find that there have been 5 different Bundesliga champions compared to EPL's three...

So the EPL is actually far more predictable.

Nihilist:


Haha No it's not

Bayern, Dortmund, Wolfsburg and Stuggart have won it in the last 7 seasons

Unlike Manyoo, City, and Chelsea in the same time frame.

If you stretch the time frame to the last 10 years, you will find that there have been 5 different Bundesliga champions compared to EPL's three...

So the EPL is actually far more predictable.

Okay. Let's make a simple exercise.

Did you pick anyone of Stuttgart and Wolfsburg to win the league in the last 3 years? Did you pick any team outside of Bayern and Dortmund to win the league in the last 3 years?

nateevs:
Okay. Let's make a simple exercise.

Did you pick anyone of Stuttgart and Wolfsburg to win the league in the last 3 years? Did you pick any team outside of Bayern and Dortmund to win the league in the last 3 years?

Same way no one would pick Arsenal to win the league. and havent been in the league reckoning for over 10yrs

WHen was the last time Arsenal finished top 2 sef?

nateevs:

Despite the counter, the bane of the discussion is about predictabilty. For instance, at certain times last season, one of Arsenal, City, Chelsea and Liverpool were going to win the league. And I refer to the latter parts of the season.

So a few teams over the years may have punctured the perpetuity that is Bayern Munich in Germany, every season, until it changes, I tip Bayern to win the league unchallenged. And I speak for many people.

Funny enough, it turns out to be so most times than not. That's extreme predictability.

Theres a difference between what you tip and reality.

In the last 10 yrs if you had done that, you would have lost 50% of the time (In seasons where BvB, Wolfsburg, Stuttgart and Bremen won)

In the last 10 yrs if I blindly say Man Utd would win the EPL I would have lost about the same number of times

In the last 10 yrs If you say the same that Barcelona would win La Liga you would have lost 40% of the time

Same with Italy (minus Calcicopoli)

At this point I can predict Arsenal nor Liverpool nor Spurs nor Everton would win next seasons(2015/2016) EPL. So where are the 5-7 teams you ppl claim. max it would be between Chelsea, City and ManUtd. By the time it gets to August 2015, I might be able to streamline it even into 2 teams and two of those 3 would make top 3.

SIRcumalot:

I know all this am,and am actually defending the EPL but I see how my comment can be misunderstood.

Except that you fail to spot the sarcasm in that post.

I fully understood your post

nateevs:




Okay. Let's make a simple exercise.

Did you pick anyone of Stuttgart and Wolfsburg to win the league in the last 3 years? Did you pick any team outside of Bayern and Dortmund to win the league in the last 3 years?

In the last 3 years there have only been 2 winners in both competitions so this isn't really helping your argument of the EPL being less predictable....

3 years is too small a sample anyway.

Nihilist:
In the last 3 years there have only been 2 winners in both competitions so this isn't really helping your argument of the EPL being less predictable....

3 years is too small a sample anyway.

If we pick 3 yrs as a sample size then we can conclude Man City is the best EPL side
also conclude that La Liga is always a 3 horse race with Barca, Madrid and Atletico having equal chances of winning
And Juve would win Seria A 100% of the time

raumdeuter:


If we pick 3 yrs as a sample size then we can conclude Man City is the best EPL side

Exactly....

Let's not forget the nineties and early noughties when Manyoo were expected to come first and everyone else fought for second place.

It's easy to criticise the Bundesliga now, but remember that our title win in 05 was the 1st in almost 60 years, and City had not won the league in in 43 years before snatching the title fortuitously in 2012.....

So it was pretty much a 1 horse race that has expanded to a 3 horse one in the EPL

Nihilist:


Exactly....

Let's not forget the nineties and early noughties when Manyoo were expected to come first and everyone else fought for second place.

It's easy to criticise the Bundesliga now, but remember that our title win in 05 was the 1st in almost 60 years, and City had not won the league in in 43 years before snatching the title fortuitously in 2012.....

So it was pretty much a 1 horse race that has expanded to a 3 horse one in the EPL

Atimes when your brain never touch you have the ability to think very deep. I think you can do better than shout Up Shesee.

I'm recruiting the best and brightest mind to Bayern anyway and I've had some success in the recent past. You can be our new fan.

And join us as we embark on European domination. Your name used to be Gustavo-Frings anyway. A combination of 2 former Bayern defensive Midfielders

No make your head dey swell o cos you are still an olodo, agbaya, atoole ati bee bee lo

N

raumdeuter:


Atimes when your brain never touch you have the ability to think very deep. I think you can do better than shout Up Shesee.

I'm recruiting the best and brightest mind to Bayern anyway and I've had some success in the recent past. You can be our new fan.

And join us as we embark on European domination. Your name used to be Gustavo-Frings anyway. A combination of 2 former Bayern defensive Midfielders

No make your head dey swell o cos you are still an olodo, agbaya, atoole ati bee bee lo

And you are still an oloshious, Nazi loving, midgetfucking Cocoa farm labourer from Ogbomoso

I rep Chelsea till the day you brush your teeth

Nihilist:
N
And you are still an oloshious, Nazi loving, midgetfucking Cocoa farm labourer from Ogbomoso

I rep Chelsea till the day you brush your teeth

Cherry picking, when used figuratively, refers to selective extraction of points in an argument in order to refute or affirm them while ignoring others which will not support the point(s) being made.

The points raised by Dayo and Nihilist makes a hell lot of sense, but am pretty sure I can find 1,000,001 better points to prove that the EPL is the BEST league in the world.

AirborneLacer:


Except that you fail to spot the sarcasm in that post.

I fully understood your post

I see that now

AirborneLacer:
Cherry picking, when used figuratively, refers to selective extraction of points in an argument in order to refute or affirm them while ignoring others which will not support the point(s) being made.

The points raised by Dayo and Nihilist makes a hell lot of sense, but am pretty sure I can find 1,000,001 better points to prove that the EPL is the BEST league in the world.

Personally, I believe that the popularity of the leagues is due to several factors, predictability not being one of them.

1) Colonial ties: it's no surprise that the EPL is at its most popular in English Speaking Countries, just as La Liga is hugely popular in South America and Eredivisie huge in South Africa. Remember that English is the most widely spoken language in the world, and that the British Empire once spanned more than half the globe.

2) Continental Success: Closely linked to point number 1. Europeans conquered most of the world, so it's not surprising that the European Champions League is the biggest competition in Club Football, with even more prestige than the World Club Championship. And the winners of the European Tourneys always raise the profile of their domestic leagues.

3) Extensive Marketing: The markerting aspect is another huge reason why the EPL is so popular. Carling, Barclays, and Nike are global behemoths in their respective fields and have a presence in most of not all countries in the world. The mere association of the EPL with such giants already suggests to the casual observer that the EPL must be as big a brand as the names that sponsor it.

4) Capitalism: Closely linked to 3 and 1. The EPL is completlely capitalist by nature and its member clubs are run in such a way where profit and margin are king and football is merely a commercialized product. It stands to reason that the league will seek to market its product as the best in the world to attract more viewership and ramp up profits.
Compare with the German model of football, where there is a more socialist outlook with subsidized tickets and fan representation at board level. There are consequently less funds available for marketing and its appeal is consequently reduced compared to EPL

Finally,
5) Western Political and Cultural Supremacy: closely linked to numbers 1-4, Western society dominate politically and culturally. We think in thier languages, idolise thier entertainers, and eagerly snap up their latest fashions. So it's not surprising that obsession with Western clubs dominate the local ones, and the guy who dominates in numbers 1-4 end up exploiting the Western Hegemony to the fullest....that guy being the EPL.

EPL viewership numbers is not a result of a perceived unpredictability at all....

Sorry if this response is that long.

Oscar signed a new 5yr contract that will keep him at the bridge till 2019..



Hmm!!.....ibime must hear this!!!

So because I praised this yeyenatu pigfucker called Gustavo he come dey go write epistle for us.

Talk true, Who wrote that for you? Cos I know your brain wey dey "overfloat" cannot comprehend those common sense typed up there

Anyway. Your post is right on the money. You seem to be one of the few people who understand the so called EPL popularity. So one Alomo on me

1. Marketing
2. Colonial ties
3. Language
4. Capitalism

Marketing is the main reason why EPL is more popular, Most leagues in the 90's only concentrated on in country marketing while the EPL was the first to reach out

2. Countres with Colonial ties to England would always have more followers. I have met several South Americans and would rather watch La Liga. In some places in the US this is noticed. In places like the Mid west with a lot of German ancestral people they follow Bundesliga while in places like New Jersey with a lot of Italians they follow Serie A. In the South with the Spanish influence La Liga is king

I was caught among some Inter Milan fans in New Jersey some yrs back while trash talking them for conspiring to relegate Juventus some of them didnt really care about EPL. If you check the logo of New York City FC and Inter Milan you would see the similarities, Same with Columbus Crew and Dortmund. That shows how far these colonial ties go

Language: English language gives the EPL a much wider reach as English is the language of the Internet and easier for even Asians to log in to it.

4, Capitalism. The English model strives to make money and doesnt really care about the local fans. They just want to make money anyway. The German model caters to the local fans first and the main objective is for them to enjoy the game and making money is secondary. If you see like how other league encourage debts, In the Bundesliga you cant even register if you are in the red.

Those times when EPL was just a Man Utd show with Arsenal barely making a whimper. No competition, no performance in EUrope,
It was still the most popular league in the world

The circle design of the new Columbus Crew SC 2015 Club Logo is influenced by the German heritage of the club and the traditional German football club badges, used by teams such as Bayern München, Borussia Dortmund and Schalke 04. In fact, the new Columbus Crew SC logo is very similar as the famous Bayern Munich logo
http://www.footyheadlines.com/2014/10/new-columbus-crew-sc-logo-unveiled.html

[img]http://2.bp..com/-x3TMmXSUFYc/VDZQhoaOspI/AAAAAAAAZAg/uYnRlN99Tf8/s738/New-Columbus-Crew-2015-Crest-Bayern.jpg[/img]

Looooooool A man said the EPL has five teams vying for the title . Only a very rich individual would have placed a bet on any team not named Man City or Chelsea running away with the league this season.

raumdeuter:

Marketing is the main reason why EPL is more popular, Most leagues in the 90's only concentrated on in country marketing while the EPL was the first to reach out

MARKETING is pretty much the reason why. And All credit should be given to the brain(s) behind the EPL's Marketing strategy in the 90s. He/They got it spot on.

Also I think we need to make a clear distinction between what we term "THE BEST" and the "THE MOST POPULAR" league in world football. A league might be incredibly popular but not necessarily be the best league in the world. I'd use last season as an example. I think it is fair to say La Liga was the best league in the world but the EPL remained the most popular. Now if you asked a few observers what the better league was, they'll say it was the EPL.

I doubt Serie A in it's 90s heydays was even as popular as the EPL then sef.

Too many niggas showing off their Eeenglish in here.

Emaprince:
Oscar signed a new 5yr contract that will keep him at the bridge till 2019..



Hmm!!.....ibime must hear this!!!

More cash when we sell him to PSG.

Nihilist:


Personally, I believe that the popularity of the leagues is due to several factors, predictability not being one of them.

1) Colonial ties: it's no surprise that the EPL is at its most popular in English Speaking Countries, just as La Liga is hugely popular in South America and Eredivisie huge in South Africa. Remember that English is the most widely spoken language in the world, and that the British Empire once spanned more than half the globe.

2) Continental Success: Closely linked to point number 1. Europeans conquered most of the world, so it's not surprising that the European Champions League is the biggest competition in Club Football, with even more prestige than the World Club Championship. And the winners of the European Tourneys always raise the profile of their domestic leagues.

3) Extensive Marketing: The markerting aspect is another huge reason why the EPL is so popular. Carling, Barclays, and Nike are global behemoths in their respective fields and have a presence in most of not all countries in the world. The mere association of the EPL with such giants already suggests to the casual observer that the EPL must be as big a brand as the names that sponsor it.

4) Capitalism: Closely linked to 3 and 1. The EPL is completlely capitalist by nature and its member clubs are run in such a way where profit and margin are king and football is merely a commercialized product. It stands to reason that the league will seek to market its product as the best in the world to attract more viewership and ramp up profits.
Compare with the German model of football, where there is a more socialist outlook with subsidized tickets and fan representation at board level. There are consequently less funds available for marketing and its appeal is consequently reduced compared to EPL

Finally,
5) Western Political and Cultural Supremacy: closely linked to numbers 1-4, Western society dominate politically and culturally. We think in thier languages, idolise thier entertainers, and eagerly snap up their latest fashions. So it's not surprising that obsession with Western clubs dominate the local ones, and the guy who dominates in numbers 1-4 end up exploiting the Western Hegemony to the fullest....that guy being the EPL.

EPL viewership numbers is not a result of a perceived unpredictability at all....

Sorry if this response is that long.

Man this is some pre-historic ish. Cool writ that could earn you the columnist of the year award

I disagree with your assertion that predictability wouldn't make the list of factors that've contributed to the EPL followership.

It does contribute to it, from every look of it.

Predictability from how I see it doesn't stop at who has and who hasn't been dominating the league, it only starts there.

I see it more like an all-encompassing term that covers many scopes of the game. Upsets, the relegation drama, the top four tussle, the final day drama etc.

These and many more twists are seen playing out in the EPL every season, and I mean every season.

Think about Citeh winning the League twice in a little space of four years, Spuds playing in the UCL at the expense of who? Manyoo finishing seventh and missing out the UCL party etc

Think about sitting down in a pub to watch Manyoo square up against Leicester with a little hope of a major upset happening or Chelsea travelling to East London only to get eviscerated by West Ham - that's unpredictability.

No passionate footie fan would want to stick with a league where these shows are hardly staged hence becoming an EPL fan makes much sense.

I'd be damned to imagine Stuttgart beating Bayern in Allianz Arena in these years, In-fact I have a greater chance of draining the Atlantic ocean with a straw than that happening.

This post isn't as lengthy as yours, so I'm gon' save me an apology.

Well we have seen AUgsburg beat Bayern, DOrtmund lose 5 straight, Freiburg beat Schalke, Leverkusen lose to bottom teams

We are currently seeing 3 former recent winners battling relegation

Tell me what comes close to that in the EPL?

raumdeuter:
Well we have seen AUgsburg beat Bayern, DOrtmund lose 5 straight, Freiburg beat Schalke, Leverkusen lose to bottom teams

We are currently seeing 3 former recent winners battling relegation

Tell me what comes close to that in the EPL?

Just as we have seen Swansea beat United at the OT,Liverpool lose to Villa, West Ham beat Liverpool and City(Current Champions) lose to West Ham.

Liverpool are the likely candidate to walk the 5 consecutive losses plank.

They battling relegation after just eleven 11 games. Come on!

AirborneLacer:


Man this is some pre-historic ish. Cool writ that could earn you the columnist of the year award

I disagree with your assertion that predictability wouldn't make the list of factors that've contributed to the EPL followership.

It does contribute to it, from every look of it.

Predictability from how I see it doesn't stop at who has and who hasn't been dominating the league, it only starts there.

I see it more like an all-encompassing term that covers many scopes of the game. Upsets, the relegation drama, the top four tussle, the final day drama etc.

These and many more twists are seen playing out in the EPL every season, and I mean every season.

Think about Citeh winning the League twice in a little space of four years, Spuds playing in the UCL at the expense of who? Manyoo finishing seventh and missing out the UCL party etc

Think about sitting down in a pub to watch Manyoo square up against Leicester with a little hope of a major upset happening or Chelsea travelling to East London only to get eviscerated by West Ham - that's unpredictability.

No passionate footie fan would want to stick with a league where these shows are hardly staged hence becoming an EPL fan makes much sense.

I'd be damned to imagine Stuttgart beating Bayern in Allianz Arena in these years, In-fact I have a greater chance of draining the Atlantic ocean with a straw than that happening.

This post isn't as lengthy as yours, so I'm gon' save me an apology.

Spot on!

Noah13:
Just as we have seen Swansea beat United at the OT,Liverpool lose to Villa, West Ham beat Liverpool and City(Current Champions) lose to West Ham.

Liverpool are the likely candidate to walk the 5 consecutive losses plank.

They battling relegation after just eleven 11 games. Come on!

SO what is the difference from what happens in other leagues in terms of surprise results like you guys claimed it only happens in EPL

In La Liga SOciedad beat Atletico(last years winner) and Real(CL winners), Celta Vigo beat Barca last weekend.

SO what is this thing thats only peculiar to EPL like you told us

In the Bundesliga I have seen Kaiserslautern gain promotion and win the league the following season. I am currently seeing BvB Dortmund go from 2nd place to relegation candidates and lose 5 games in a row

None of these has ever happened in the EPL

raumdeuter:
Well we have seen AUgsburg beat Bayern, DOrtmund lose 5 straight, Freiburg beat Schalke, Leverkusen lose to bottom teams

We are currently seeing 3 former recent winners battling relegation

Tell me what comes close to that in the EPL?

And you consider all that to be dramas and twists?

Sorry I don't and I won't.

As far as objectivity and logic is concerned, Dortmund and the rest of the once-top-teams who are finding it pretty tough lately are merely paying the price for not holding on to their best players.

There's a reason why mates would keep claiming that you lot are weakening the league. I never believed that, but heck, I think they're right.

There's only a bleak future for a selling team that doesn't believe in the word 'stability'.

Of course Bayern would lose a game in the league to a minnow (albeit hardly in Allianz Arena) the real question remains, how often does such unpredictability pan out?

I've been an EPL/Chelsea fan for the past decade and i tell you man, these sort of upsets aren't new to us.

Such is the beauty of the league, one that has won many souls across the globe.

AirborneLacer:


And you consider all that to be dramas and twists?

Sorry I don't and I won't.

As far as objectivity and logic is concerned, Dortmund and the rest of the once-top-teams who are finding it pretty tough lately are merely paying the price for not holding on to their best players.

There's only a bleak future for a selling team that doesn't believe in the word 'stability'.

Of course Bayern would lose a game in the league to a minnow (albeit hardly in Allianz Arena) the real question remains, how often does such unpredictability pan out?

I've been an EPL/Chelsea fan for the past decade and i tell you man, these sort of upsets aren't new to us.

Such is the beauty of the league, one that has won many souls across the globe.

Arsenal lose more players every season than Dortmund yet they have never flirted with relegation or lost 5 games in a row in any season.

How often these pans out? You havent seen Bayern beaten out of CL spots before in 2007?
You havent seen Bayern struggle to make top 3 in 2011?
You are a Chelsea fan, Tell us How many times has Chelsea lost a home game to a minnow in the EPL in the last 10yrs

Theres no unpredictability that surpasses a Drtmund from 2nd to relegation

or a newly promoted team winning the league in the new season e.g Burnley or QPR winning the EPL this season

Or the bottom 4 consisting of 3 previous winners e.g Arsenal City and Man Utd in the bottom 5

When stuffs like that happen thats when you can equate the unpredictability to elsewhere in Europe

raumdeuter:


SO what is the difference from what happens in other leagues in terms of surprise results like you guys claimed it only happens in EPL?

In La Liga SOciedad beat Atletico(last years winner) and Real(CL winners), Celta Vigo beat Barca last weekend.

SO what is this thing thats only peculiar to EPL like you told us?

Consistency of the unpredictability.

That's the answer you need.

AirborneLacer:


Consistency of the unpredictability.

That's the answer you need.

Every gameweek this season you have had one of the top 4 last yr drop points

This weekend Schalke lost to Freiburg

Last weekend Leverkusen lost to Hamburg

Upper weekend Dortmund lost at home to Augsburg

Week Before that Cologne defeated Dortmund

Week before that Hoffenheim defeated Schalke and Hamburg defeated Dortmund

Week before that Leverkusen drew with Freiburg


Thats 6 straight weeks of upset results. If thats not consistency of unpredictability, then pray tell whats consistency

Or the fact that In the last 10 seasons over 10 clubs have made top 4 in the Buli which cant be said for the EPL

Bayern Dortmund, Schalke, Leverkusen Mochengladbach Wolfsburg, Stuttgart, Hannover, Bremen, Hertha Berlin, Hamburg etc

5 of these have lifted the shield

If thats not competition tell what is

raumdeuter:


Arsenal lose more players every season than Dortmund yet they have never flirted with relegation or lost 5 games in a row in any season.

How often these pans out? You havent seen Bayern beaten out of CL spots before in 2007?
You havent seen Bayern struggle to make top 3 in 2011?
You are a Chelsea fan, Tell us How many times has Chelsea lost a home game to a minnow in the EPL in the last 10yrs

Theres no unpredictability that surpasses a Drtmund from 2nd to relegation

or a newly promoted team winning the league in the new season e.g Burnley or QPR winning the EPL this season

Or the bottom 4 consisting of 3 previous winners e.g Arsenal City and Man Utd in the bottom 5

When stuffs like that happen thats when you can equate the unpredictability to elsewhere in Europe

Arsenal loses players more than Dortmund yet replaces those payers with ones who can match their quality way more than Dortmund.

Who's Gotze's replacement? Mikhirtayan - The sodding dick is even a marquee signing. Who's Lewandowski's replacement? An unproven African showboy.

Dayokanu you can count your upsets and twists but believe me, I've lost count of mine.

This is what differentiates you from me.

What differentiates the EPL from the Bundesliga.

The unpredictability panning out in the Burnthisleaguedown is a little melodramatic for my taste.

Give me something heart wrenching every season and I'd be up to give you some credit.

AirborneLacer:
Arsenal loses players more than Dortmund yet replaces those payers with ones who can match their quality way more than Dortmund.
Who's Gotze's replacement? Mikhirtayan - The sodding dick is even a marquee signing. Who's Lewandowski's replacement? An unproven African showboy.
Dayokanu you can count your upsets and twists but believe me, I've lost count of mine.

This is what differentiates you from me.

What differentiates the EPL from the Bundesliga.

The unpredictability panning out in the Burnthisleaguedown is a little melodramatic for my taste.

Give me something heart wrenching every season and I'd be up to give you some credit.

WHen I tell you to pay attention you say otherwise. Lewandoski was replaced by the highest goal scorer in the Serie A

Who did Arsenal replace Van persie with? Giroud and Sanogo, who did they replace Sagna with? Chambers. Who did they replace Nasri with Oxlade Chamberlain yet with every signing worse than their predecesors, they've never flirted with relegation, they've never lost 5 in a row HECK theyve never missed top 4 !!!

Arsenal can sell their entire 11 get a bunch of rookies and still make top 4. Yeah thats so unpredictable. Yet DOrtmund sells 2 players and are now losing 5 in a row and battling relegation

Every single week I can give you upsets results on the top 4 of the previous season.

WHats heart wrenching about Chelsea having won all their games except the ones against the 2 Manchester giants? Heart wrenching try bottom 4 consisting of 3 recent winners