davidylan:

how many times will we have to prove that allah was just as confused as his slaves today? Look at the portion in highlights . . . allah claims to be talking about "christian sects" such as the monarchites, jacobites and nestorites . . . here is the problem . . .

Nestorite - A form of phenolic resin. There are NO christian sects refered to as nestorites either now or ever in history.
Monarchite - No such thing has ever existed.
Jacobite - there has never existed any such christian sect.

Now just what was allah really pretending to state above? Did allah really know anything about the world he claimed to have created?

Dont bother to wonder, just google those 3 names and see for urselves.

olabowale:

JACOBITE: (Origin of the Word), Jacobita, after Jacobus Baradaeus, bishop of Edessa (d. 578)

Definition of Jacobite: A member of the Syrian Monophysitic Church, which was founded in
the 6th century a. d. and was governed by the Patriarch of Antioch.

olabowale:

So when the fickle minds limited their sources to Goggle, a very young and yet immature
sources of Knowledge, God Almighty Allah defends His Religion. He excites the would be
inmate of doom to false victory until they are shamed.

Intelligence will prompt mindful people to further their research, even to dictionary sources.
That was what I did. I will only provide the definition of one, just to tease you of your
limited smart:

olabowale:

After your dishonesty have been exposed, all of a sudden, your foolish mind
remembered the tripe. Dishonesty perishes. Very easily. Back to the topic.

olabowale:

All of a sudden, I felt a draft. Oh, its the wind blowing from Upstate New York. Lake Erie or something.
I will shut the window. Some funk may be coming behind it.

davidylan:

Go ask allah for the monarchites tomorrow.

Muslims believe the Qur’an to be the word of God that was given to Muhammad, by the archangel Gabriel, over a period of twenty-three years until his death. It is believed that Gabriel spoke to Muhammad, in the cave of the mountain of Hira, the first words of the Qur’an:

It has been written and read only in Arabic for more than 1,400 years. But, because many Muslims around the world do not understand Arabic, the meaning of the Qur’an is also given in other languages, so that readers can understand better what the Arabic words in the Qur’an mean. These books are like dictionaries to the Qur’an — they are not read as part of the religion of Islam, to replace the Arabic Qur’an.

shushu:

Eagerly awaiting the reply to Alexis' questions from Olabowale, without any insults please.

shushu:

You and 100 other people who have been watching this thread and waiting !!!


Kobojunkie, with reference to the above statement.The arguments by yourself, davidylan and others are quite impressive, what more is there to say without repeating the same things over and over again to olabowale?All i want the man to do is table his arguments in a more understandable and less insultive manner.And i am still awaiting his response to the questions asked.

I am so glad I am not the only one who sees that problem in his responses. I barely understand his lenghty posts and 99.9% of the time it is 1) off point 2) just babbling

@Alexis: I thought that if a fellow lives in Igbo land, Chineke would be a common word with him!. If such a man needs to know what Chineke means, all he has to do is to take a stroll to any market, and ask any ethnic Igbo for an explanation! To have picked a pen and write a to Tribune Publication, in Oke-Ado, in Ibadan, would clearly show a poor judgement!

(Angel Gabrael is correct and was always in every revelation, except the last 4 Verses of Surah Baqarah, which was given in the Night Journey known as Isra wa Miraj. (Angel Gabrael and others who accompanied him, for example in the revelation of Suratul Fatiha, also known as Ummuh Kitab!) holy spirit'. (Another name for Angel Gabrael), 'one mighty in power' (A description of Angel Gabrael).

Your Post
1. Was Allah worshiped in Arabia before mu hammed was born? (Allah of the period before Muhammad means 'god,' while Allah of Islam means Almighty!

Your Post
2. Muhammad grand father name was abdullah - meaning 'servant of Allah'. How come his grand father had a "Muslim/Islamic" name before mu hammed even formed Islam? (Muhammad's father, not his grandfather. His name was abdi Mutallib! Alexis you have not true understandingof Islam, etc.

Your Post
3. Did some Arabians used to pray facing mecca 5 times a day before the advent of mu hammed and Islam? (There was no 5 prayers before Islam of Muhammad! Again, you have Zero understanding!

Your Post
4. Did some Arabians used to go on annual pilgrimage to the Kaaba which was a temple of the moon god, running around the Kaaba seven times, caressing an idol of a black stone set in the wall of the Kaaba, running between two hills, making animal sacrifices, gathering on Fridays for prayers before the advent of mu hammed and Islam? (The call for hajj, the annual pilgrimage was made by Ibrahim! This was long time before the Jewish people ever existed. Much longer time before Christianity, which was a religion that Jesus reckon with, anyhow. Extreme long time before the Islam of Muhammad. The question you need to answer for me, Alexis, isthis, Was Ibrahim, a pagan, because he was the last caller for the Pilgrimage? You said moon god? Have you heard of Muhammad's splitting of the moon miracle? How can a worshipper split his god, if he truly believes in it? Alexis, you are wrong, again! Gathering on Fridays, for prayer before Islam of Muhammad? You are probably more naive than a 2 year old! Probably you are asleep throghout your entry! You could have easily gone to any Masjid in Qatar for a thorough Islamic lecture. You definitely need it! If you are going to be this dishonest, I will just think that you are not serious, but looking for attention! You need to talk to the shrink in Nairaland. I will recommend Nwando and our scholarly Davidylan!

Does asking an arab what "Allah" means answer the question? Most muslims recite the koran, they don't READ it to understand. Since they don't read it, christians will help them read it and where we see things that need to be addressed, we will present them to muslims to answer, where they can't, we will call on history to answer. They sit at their mullahs feet and accept anything and everything he says. We are not zombies olabowale, we are free thinking humans that should judge situations and make informed decisions, something that most muslims are scared to do. I don't need to write any publication house in Qatar to find out who 'Allah' is. To find out, I need to go to the authoritative source for all muslims - 'the koran' or 'quran'
Alhaji olabowale, do forgive me if I spelt the koran wrongly, if I use koran or quran, I am referring to the samething.

I am laughing and rolling on the floor. So in one surah, the quran declares it was angel gabriel and in another surah when it mention 'angels' were given the quran you decided to add other angels with gabriel,lol. Unfortunately, I am at work and I don't have my quran with me. I will show you the surah I am referring to in no way referred to angel gabriel when it mentioned 'angels' my friend, it if had did - the all knowing Allah should have known and mentioned it clearly?

[/quote]

How can a Yoruba christian be able to be an expert on Arab Islamic materials? How long you have been alive again, Alexis? Jibril is also called Ruuh Qudus! Also called Ruuh!, and other praising names. Until you can provide your proofs, the matter is considered settled. Try your Christian propaganda websites, you may not have a supporter on this one! You have to wake up pretty early to argue this one!

[quote]What is in a name olabowale? A name is not only identification, but an identity as well. Many times a special meaning is attached to the name. Names had, among other purposes, an explanatory purpose. Throughout the bible God reveals Himself to us through His names. When we study these names that He reveals to us in the Bible, we will better understand who God really is. The meanings behind God's names reveal the central personality and nature of the One who bears them. Let me give you a few examples of what we christians call our God
1. (el el-yone') - The Most High God
El is a name that is translated as "God" and can be used in conjunction with other words to designate various aspects of God's character. Elyon literally means "Most High" and is used both adjectivally and substantivally throughout the Old Testament. It expresses the extreme sovereignty and majesty of God and His highest preeminence. When the two words are combined — El Elyon — it can be translated as "the most exalted God."(Psa 57:2)

2. (el shad-di') - All-Sufficient One, Lord God Almighty
El is a name that is translated as "God" and can be used in conjunction with other words to designate various aspects of God's character. Another word much like Shaddai, and from which many believe it derived, is shad meaning "breast" in Hebrew (some other scholars believe that the name is derived from an Akkadian word Šadu, meaning "mountain," suggesting strength and power). This refers to God completely nourishing, satisfying, and supplying His people with all their needs as a mother would her child. Connected with the word for God, El, this denotes a God who freely gives nourishment and blessing, He is our sustainer.

Interestingly, not many Muslims want to accept that Allah was already being worshipped at the Ka'ba in Mecca by Arab pagans before Muhammad came. Some Muslims become angry when they are confronted with this fact (muslims like you). But history is not on your side. Pre-Islamic literature has proved this.
History establishes beyond the shadow of doubt that even the pagan Arabs, before Muhammad’s time, knew their chief god by the name of Allah and even, in a sense, proclaimed his unity, Among the pagan Arabs this term denoted the chief god of their pantheon, the Kaaba, with its three hundred and sixty idols.
To find out who Allah is and how the word Allah became known as God, we need to know the pre-Islamic origin of 'Allah". Consider these facts that history supports
1. Allah was worshipped by the pagan Arabs as one of many polytheistic gods - Yes!, Allah was indeed worshipped before muhammed was born. So, what is new about 'There is no god but Allah and muhammed is his messenger'. Pagan arabs worshipped 'Allah' long before the advent of islam.
2. Allah was worshipped in the Kabah at Mecca before Muhammad was born. Muhammad merely proclaimed a god the Meccans were already familiar with. The pagan Arabs never accused Muhammad of preaching a different Allah than the one they already worshipped. They wondered why he gave monopoly to only 'Allah'
3. Although "Allah" has become known as the proper name for the Muslim god, Allah is not a name, but a descriptor that means literally, "the god". All pagan cultures have these generic terms that refer to their "top god" as "the god". In comparison to the perfect monotheism of Judaism and Christianity, "Allah" was originally no more a proper name for the Muslim God, than the word Hebrew "elohim" (god) or Greek "theos" (god) are proper names of the one true God of the Bible. "Jehovah" is the only revealed proper name for the "Elohim" of the Old Testament ( Ex 3:13; 6:3) and "Jesus" is the only revealed proper name of "Theos" in the New Testament. (Acts 4:12) Islam has no proper name for their god, but merely transformed, by universal use and confusion, the generic Allah into a proper name. So although today, Muslims use "Allah" as a proper name, it was never used this way originally. Allah, therefore is equivalent to "elohim" and "ho theos" but not "Jehovah" or "Jesus". Allah is not the name of the nameless Muslim God. However Muslims will claim that Allah is the name of God that corresponds to Jehovah. Both the Father and the Son are called "ho theos" (The God). Jesus is called "The God" many times in the New Testament: John 20:28; Heb 1:8. An important conclusion from this, is that the mere fact that "Allah" is equivalent to "elohim" and "ho theos" does not mean they are directly corresponded. It certainly doesn’t prove Allah is the same as the God of the Old or New Testament. It does not prove that Muslim’s worship the same God as Christians. If this correspondence proved the Muslim god was the same as the Christian God, then because pagan religions also have generics that correspond to "the god" (Allah), this correspondence would also prove that Allah is the same god as the Buddhist god, for Buddhists also refer to their god as "the god". I hope you get it now alhaji.

Yeah right!, alhaji - this is a simple task, just prove that the Allah of pre-islamic arabia is different from the Allah that muhammed brought. They are the same deities, the mode of worship, the rites, the travelling to mecca and praying 5 times a day was done thousands of years before the advent of muhammed islam.
This cheap attempt of not answering the question doesn't make your statement correct. There are authentic sources (history, text and scrolls) that I can refer you to that pre-islamic arabians used to pray 5 times a day. Again, if they used to do it before the advent of islam and worship Allah, what is the difference between the Allah that they used to pray 5 times a day to and the Allah that you pray 5 times a day to? I expect that you can honestly answer this question.
I never mentioned anything about Ibrahim and he being a pagan or not. Infact I have no clue what you are talking about. I never mentioned anything about muhammed splitting the moon miracle either, where is all this coming from? These are irrelevant to the question at hand. I asked if they pilgrimage to the kaaba that pre-islamic arabians used to go to and worship Allah is different from the pilgrimage that muslims to go now? Which other way can I put the question for you to answer? I dey wait oh!
The last but not the least question - What religion worships every Friday, faces meccah when praying today? An honest and simple answer is all I need, no stories about any miracles or how I don't know anything about islam, I just need a simple answer.
I hand the floor over to you - alhaji