ekt_bear: There are very two dangerous trends I've noticed among Africans and black people more generally:

1. Reveling in dubious achievements made thousands of years ago. E.g., "the pyramids were built by black people. Yayyyyyyy!" Even pretending temporarily that this actually happened, shouldn't the natural response be, "OK, so who gives a fvck? What have you done for me lately?"

2. Blaming others for certain problems. E.g., it was the white man who colonized us who is to blame for our troubles. Well, didn't he colonize other people too? I'm not saying that he is innocent of course. He certainly is not. But it isn't as if he is God that he determines your destiny somehow.

These attitudes are not conducive to building a better future.

No, you should of kept that at Africans, Ace. I can post up a plethora of inventions in which were established by Black-Americans in both the recent and past, in which are essential to the modern world today. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but in this situation we Black-Americans are in a whole difference league from Africans, and pretty much all other blacks.

Blyss:

No, you should of kept that at Africans, Ace. I can post up a plethora of inventions in which were established by Black-Americans in both the recent and past, in which are essential to the modern world today. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but in this situation we Black-Americans are in a whole difference league from Africans, and pretty much all other blacks.

Out of curiosity, can you name some examples?

I do agree that African Americans are in a better situation on average than Africans.

But one wonders whether this is their own doing, or simply a function of being a resident of the most powerful country on earth...

ekt_bear:

Out of curiosity, can you name some examples?

I do agree that African Americans are in a better situation on average than Africans.

But one wonders whether this is their own doing, or simply a function of being a resident of the most powerful country on earth...

He's operating under the naive assumption that there aren't African scientists or inventors with some achievements simply because Africans don't compile lists. Africans don't compile lists not just because it's not that easy to track all these people down, but also because they know that the number of recent achievements of black people in science isn't comparable to that of other ethnic/racial groups right now so there's not really a point.

Percy Julian, David Blackwell, Mark Dean, James Edward West, Ben Carson, and Vivien Thomas are the African American scientists that stand out.

On a secondary tier, but still impressive, you could put Kerrie Holley, Keith L. Black, Arthur B.C. Walker, Joseph S. Fransisco, Erich Jarvis, Levi Watkins Jr. and Herman Branson.

I think Donald J. Darensbourg is also claimed to be black, although I wouldn't classify him as black personally.

For the rest of the people you see listed on these African American inventors lists, there are Africans or Caribbeans at the same level of achievement (e.g. Haile Sossina (Ethiopian - African), Cardinal Warde (Barbados - Caribbean), Kwabena Boahen (Ghanaian - African), some Nigerians, and some other Africans) or higher. Then of course there are people you see listed in some of these lists whose inventions or discoveries weren't really that significant or weren't even used or were patented after the original invention had already been made by someone else. A layperson might get the mistaken impression that they're all actually important inventors though.

The past affects the future in the present - there's no way you can forget the past, if you want a better future.. Life works in a cycle...

Yeah - Greece is a basket case, Italy is a basket case - so is America, and definitely the UK. And how has that diminished their 'achievements'? Has that stopped them from talking about Aristotle, Socrates, Hippocrates, Plato, Archimedes etc..? These are 'Greeks' who got their knowledge from Africa - yet that has never stopped Europe from talking about them... Heck, they still talk about the achievements of Isaac Newton, Einstein etc.. or lack thereof..

Heck, even the Egyptian medical papyri (Ebers Papyrus) is still the blueprint used for medical sciences today.

LMAO at someone saying Europeans invented writing systems and road networks... They invented the internet..

Nigerians aren't the smartest people in the world... They think they know, but most are ignorant toads.

God helps us all..

So...in general. If you want to call someone else ignorant, it is somewhat helpful if you get your facts straight first.

1. Let's discuss the internet, first.

a) If you want to be pedantic, I said "Western." Not European. So factually you are wrong in your assertion that I claimed that Europeans invented the internet.
b) America (the inventors of the internet) is a society/culture founded by white Europeans. Most would consider America, Canada, Australia, NZ under the general category of European culture/society. Since the dominant and founding culture in each of those countries is white Europeans. It is fine if you disagree with someone characterizing those countries as "European." But that isn't particularly relevant, because of (a).

2. The point is not that Europeans invented writing or roads. That is actually irrelevant, something you'd probably have picked up on if you'd paid more attention. The point is that

a) they were certainly the ones who brought modern writing and modern roads to Nigeria (or I guess for me to preempt pedantry again, southern Nigeria).
b) it seems fairly unlikely that we'd have these things w/o interacting with them (or some other group).

No one can lay claim to inventing the internet, it was invented in stages by different people (including black people) - and a lot of people contributed to it.... But the 'idea' of the internet was 'invented' by a British guy...

Modern = contemporary/what's applicable to the present time.

You have to define what you mean by 'modern' writing and 'modern' roads.... There's nothing called, 'modern' writing.. Contemporary writing, yes.. Evolved form of writing in European languages because there is an hidden rule which stipulates that the conquered must speak the language of the conquerors, yes - but there's no modern writing... There are also no 'modern' roads, roads surface also had to change because of what they're used for at the present time.

It's like saying 'modern' houses... If the idea of having anything modern is something to brag about - I don't think Europe will still have those medieval houses everywhere to showcase their history... Heck, all the houses built in Spain by the moors during the dark ages are still there..

We never had contact with them when we created the bronze heads and a civilized form of governments in Southern Nigeria which were equivalent or more sophisticated compared to what was attainable in Europe at that time. What makes you think we wouldn't have done the same, if we had no contact with them?

We overrate these people too much... Everything they built has its foundation in Africa... Heck, their science isn't even superior to ancient science... The dogons knew about the sirius stars A and B thousands of years ago, but European science just discovered them three years ago..

Till they build a pyramid as accurate as the pyramid of Giza, their science will always be overrated to me.

The internet was invented by DARPA. Who built ARPANET (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET).

Who is this British guy who came up with the "idea?" Look, likely lots of people had the vague idea of computers communicating. But it is one thing to come up with a vague idea, another to come up with concrete technologies. E.g., TCP/IP.

More to the point, if you believe that the idea was invented by a British dude (a European), then clearly you have contradicted your earlier post in which you seemed amused by the idea of the internet being invented by Europeans...

ekt_bear: So...in general. If you want to call someone else ignorant, it is somewhat helpful if you get your facts straight first.

The point is that

a) they were certainly the ones who brought modern writing and modern roads to Nigeria (or I guess for me to preempt pedantry again, southern Nigeria).
b) it seems fairly unlikely that we'd have these things w/o interacting with them (or some other group).

Leaving aside your bizarre terminology ( like ''modern writing'')the point of this thread is that the west would have been unable to accomplish those things without their initial contact with the African inventors of speech, writing, law, mathematics, architecture, medicine, iron smelting, mining, etc etc. You are quick and eager to acknowledge latter-day western innovation, while being deeply hostile to and dismissive of the earlier African innovation which led to them, showing you have a deep psychological problem that's best treated by therapy and perhaps, the cane.

I think for some reason you believe that I personally identify with ancient African inventions.

Unlike you, my self-esteem is not tied up in things that may or may not have happened thousands of years ago done by people I at best have a tenuous connection with.

I take pride in my personal accomplishments. Or live vicariously through the accomplishments of my siblings/relatives.

It honestly cracks me up that the man salivating over fake inventions done thousands of years ago with nothing else to follow from it is questioning the temperament of others.

Look, face your current life. Face today, tomorrow, and this upcoming week. Do great things today, so you won't have to live in a fake past.

ekt_bear:

Out of curiosity, can you name some examples?

I do agree that African Americans are in a better situation on average than Africans.

But one wonders whether this is their own doing, or simply a function of being a resident of the most powerful country on earth...

You think like a re.tard. So in other words if a white scientist in America invents something, you'd recognise that as a legitimate invention in its own right, but if a black scientist invents something, you qualify his achievement by putting it down to his living in the ''most powerful country on earth'', and it's hence, ''not of his own doing''

Pray, is the white scientist invention not down to his living in the most powerful nation on earth''?

In fact you have major psychological problems.

Perhaps I should have told some of these stories to my little sister.

However, rather than wasting her time with irrelevant nonsense, I motivated her instead by saying, "Hey, I think if you work and study hard, you'll be able to pass the exam to get into this prestigious high school in your town. From there, you'll be in a great position to get into an Ivy League school." And that is exactly what happened...from that she was motivated enough to graduate near the top of her HS class and get into an Ivy league school.

OK, with the younger one, I'll motivate her with stories by moonlight such as this

In "6000 BC, your ancestor Blahblahblah invented the English language, which he then passed to the Europeans, who then used this to found the Roman Empire. Now, go kick azz in school and make your bro proud!!!"

Na wa for una

ekt_bear: I think for some reason you believe that I personally identify with ancient African inventions.

It's obvious you do not.

Unlike you, my self-esteem is not tied up in things that may or may not have happened thousands of years ago done by people I at best have a tenuous connection with.

You have very low racial esteem for the black race to assume that any recitation of African history is merely intended to assuage African self-esteem issues. If not, do you also accept that the inundation of our senses with episodes from European history on the History channel and Hollywood are attempts by Europeans to cure their self-esteem problems? We all know about Stonehenge, the Greeks, Julius Caesar, Napoleon, etc through various media. IS THAT because the European has self esteem problems?

It honestly cracks me up that the man salivating over fake inventions done thousands of years ago with nothing else to follow from it is questioning the temperament of others.

It disgusts me that a worthless imbec.ile like you from God-knows-what-hole-in-the-ground would describe African historical milestones as 'fake inventions'. I blame the animal who gave birth to you for your idiocy and foolishness.

Look, face your current life. Face today, tomorrow, and this upcoming week. Do great things today, so you won't have to live in a fake past.

Your entire personality is fake and worthless. Vamoose from here and go kiss more white ass you ignorant, dumb, worthless slave.

This thread could become quite entertaining.

Blyss:

No, you should of kept that at Africans, Ace. I can post up a plethora of inventions in which were established by Black-Americans in both the recent and past, in which are essential to the modern world today. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but in this situation we Black-Americans are in a whole difference league from Africans, and pretty much all other blacks.

Largely because you live in the greatest nation on earth built by white europeans. Left on their own, the blacks in the US are no better than those in Haiti.

What on earth is racial esteem

How does this help someone get into a good college, pass exams, get a good job, invent cool things, etc

Self esteem is of high value, yes. But racial esteem? What on earth is that?

Here are things that are of questionable value:

1. Racial esteem. Just because your race is doing well or poorly doesn't mean that you are doing well/poorly.
2. National esteem. Just because your country is doing well/poorly ""

Here is something of high value:
3. Self esteem.

How does one improve self-esteem? By kicking azz and taking names. And wasting time on figuring out how your ancient ancestor Blahblahblah built the pyramids or whatever isn't going to be as helpful for your prospects over the next week as various other things you can do in your life.

davidylan:

Largely because you live in the greatest nation on earth built by white europeans. Left on their own, the blacks in the US are no better than those in Haiti.

Uhmmm. You may not realise it but the USA was BUILT largely by AFRICAN labour. You do realise that white political and administrative input alone does not a ''great country'' make.

As for Haiti, they would have been a great nation had they not been bastardized and brutalised by the powerful western nations after their declaration of independence from France in the 19th century. You will not hear this on CNN, but Haiti was FORCED as part of the terms of independence agreed with those powers, to pay 85% of her annual revenue to France from the 19th century right up till the 1950s as payback for denying France its 'property'.

Please get the real news on people and nations before spewing your anti-black ignorance.

Not to join sides, but "racial esteem", "national esteem" etc. can impact on self esteem for some people. See for example the "stereotype threat" phenomenon as far as race is concerned.

Rossikk:

Uhmmm. You may not realise it but the USA was BUILT by AFRICAN labour. You do realise that white political and administrative input alone does not a ''great country'' make.

As for Haiti, they would have been a great nation had they not been bastardized and brutalised by the powerful western nations after their declaration of independence from France in the 18th century. You will not hear this on CNN, but Haiti was FORCED as part of the terms of independence agreed with those powers, to pay 85% of its annual revenue to France from the 19th century right up till the 1950s as payback for denying France its 'property'.

yeah the USA was built by african/slave labor but do we also credit the ox or donkey for being the one who is responsible for a bountiful harvest? Blacks in the US take credit for something that really isnt theirs... the whites concieved of the mordern day american society, designed it and then used the black man as free labor to achieve his goals. its a shame that you consider this a thing to be proud of. the same blacks went to Haiti and have turned it into a complete disgrace.

Oh and with respect to Haiti, are we back to blaming Europeans for the failure of blacks to build a society?

ekt_bear:

How does one improve self-esteem? By kicking azz and taking names. And wasting time on figuring out how your ancient ancestor Blahblahblah built the pyramids or whatever isn't going to be as helpful for your prospects over the next week as various other things you can do in your life.

The more you type the more illiterate you sound. You're basically saying we should forget our history. No people on earth do that, least of all the Europeans whom you worship.

It honestly cracks me up that you think I worship Europeans.

Europeans worship me. Indians and Chinese too, for that matter

I don't have this same racialist sense that you do. I.e., Africans vs. Europeans, blacks vs. whites, etc.

I'm focused on the individual, family, and to a lesser extent my ethnicity.

davidylan:

yeah the USA was built by african/slave labor but do we also credit the ox or donkey for being the one who is responsible for a bountiful harvest?

If you used a horse or donkey for your harvest you do not make out you did it all on your own strength and power. If you arrive at work in your car you do not pretend you flew or walked miles on your own, since that amounts to dishonesty.

Blacks in the US take credit for something that really isnt theirs... the whites concieved of the mordern day american society, designed it and then used the black man as free labor to achieve his goals.

Sorry but that's absolute HORSE MANURE. African Americans have EVERY RIGHT ON GOD'S EARTH to claim the good things America has to offer as theirs, none of which would have been in the least possible without them.

its a shame that you consider this a thing to be proud of.

It's neither something to be proud of nor ashamed of. Facts are facts. Blacks helped build the United States of America, and have just as much a stake in the country as anyone else, if not more, since it was they who felt the whip more than anyone else.

the same blacks went to Haiti and have turned it into a complete disgrace.

Spoken like a true ignoramus with zero knowledge of Haitian history. Why don't you get off CNN and go do some real studying??

Oh and with respect to Haiti, are we back to blaming Europeans for the failure of blacks to build a society?

Another dumb comment. Haiti is a tiny island surrounded by powerful large nations like the USA, Canada, France et al, and was never allowed to get on its feet after wresting independence from France. If they were white as snow they would have had the exact same problems if they had to pay 85% of their annual income to their former owners for over a century or risk annihilation, while enduring periodic invasion and occupation from the US, hell-bent on exploitation. LEARN TO USE YOUR BRAIN TO INVESTIGATE ISSUES ON THEIR OWN MERIT rather than simply attaching a simplistic racial explanation to everything like some cursed ill-educated dunce.

ekt_bear: It honestly cracks me up that you think I worship Europeans.

Europeans worship me. Indians and Chinese too, for that matter

I don't have this same racialist sense that you do. I.e., Africans vs. Europeans, blacks vs. whites, etc.

I'm focused on the individual, family, and to a lesser extent my ethnicity.

Do not dodge the poser. I repeat, are you also hostile to European exploration of their history, which we are all familiar with - Stonehenge, Aristotle, Greece, Rome etc etc?

ANSWER = NO!

So WHY are you hostile to AFRICAN history?

Don't duck and dive.

I'm not opposed to exploring history. But if you do so, then I would hope that you approach it honestly and scientifically.

Not with an agenda (as an exercise to boost racial self-esteem or whatever)

ekt_bear: I'm not opposed to exploring history. But if you do so, then I would hope that you approach it honestly and scientifically.

Not with an agenda (as an exercise to boost racial self-esteem or whatever)

The 12 African inventions listed were backed by scholarly attestations and scientific study. You have NO leg to stand on.

Also, you never accused Europeans of having an agenda to boost their self esteem when they make out they invented everything worth inventing in their various media. In fact you side with them. So quit the double standards. Simply admit that you've been schooled here. Next time, come correct.

Dude, you claimed speech, religion, and art were inventions.

Seriously?

I think even you don't believe that and that you posted some of this just for the hell of it. If you had taken a more reasonable approach to an ancient African inventions thread, there would be fewer objections.

I don't have any real reason to do this. Will you see someone post on a random forum, "12 great white inventions that changed the world"

In general, I see less of this need to boost themselves among white people. You see Greeks happy about their contributions thousands of years ago. But they are more focused on solving their current troubles rather than wallowing in a glorious past.

Similarly, I guess in theory the Germans might be somewhat bummed that they didn't do anything 3,000 years ago. But fortunately for the Germans, they have some things today and tomorrow to be happy about..

Anyways...I didn't bother debunking any of these accomplishments seriously because it is somewhat obvious they are a crock.

However, perhaps it is necessary for me to do this, as tedious and boring as this will be for me..

PhysicsQED: Dude, you claimed speech, religion, and art were inventions.

Seriously?

Uhmmmm, actually, YES, seriously. If you consider that humans wandered the earth for thousands of years WITHOUT those things UNTIL they began to be developed in Africa. As stated earlier, this is all backed by scholarly research, which strangely, you seem either blind to, allergic to, or unwilling to explore.

Just because we have these abilities today in abundance doesn't mean we've always had them, or that they should be taken for granted.

ekt_bear:
Similarly, I guess in theory the Germans might be somewhat bummed that they didn't do anything 3,000 years ago. But fortunately for the Germans, they have some things today and tomorrow to be happy about..

They do the same kind of stuff Rossike is doing though.

They claimed a few sticks and stones arranged in a certain way several thousands of years ago in Germany was some kind of ancient astronomical observatory or something. It was passed off as actually being significant or something other than a trifle because the authors were university researchers. The white supremacist types nearly busted a nut when that "significant" "discovery" was published.

OK, fine. So in every society/culture, there are Rossikes.

But are there more Rossikes in black/African society/culture or in white society/culture? Empirically, what have you observed, as a percentage of the populations?

White people that I know don't give a sh1t about stuff that happened several thousand years ago. This is not what they use to boost their self-esteem.

Granted, there is some bias since I don't actively seek to find the white equivalents of Rossike

ekt_bear: I don't have any real reason to do this. Will you see someone post on a random forum, "12 great white inventions that changed the world"

The equivalent would be 'European inventions' not ''white inventions''. Do learn to be honest in debate.

In general, I see less of this need to boost themselves among white people.

More wilful ignorance and intellectual dishonesty. On the contrary, there is MORE propagation of European history in media, education, and entertatinment, than any other history on the face of the earth.

You see Greeks happy about their contributions thousands of years ago. But they are more focused on solving their current troubles rather than wallowing in a glorious past.

You must be living on another planet. The whole world and its dog knows ALL about Greek history, viz the Greek philosopers, Plato, Aristotle, Pythagoras, Thales, plus Alexander and co, following centuries of ramming it down our throats, in movies, documentaries, and academia. That's why even a village goat like you knows all about Greek history, and zero about your own history. And the few times you come across your history, such as on this thread, you throw a tantrum like some cursed so and so. Why don't you get your colonised self out of here and spare us the misery of reading your pathetic nonsense?