LordReed:


Point me to them since I have never heard of such atheists.

I am not the gatekeeper of who follows your Jesus' teachings rightly or wrongly. Since you seem to be the gatekeeper you have your work cut out for you. LMAO!

I am one. I am an atheist yet I confess Lord Jesus as my Lord and Savior and only begotten son of the living God.

You don't have to be gate keeper of anything. You simply have to acknowledge this statement as FACT: "A true follower of the teachings of Lord Jesus cannot be greedy"

PoliteActivist:


I am one. I am an atheist yet I confess Lord Jesus as my Lord and Savior and only begotten son of the living God.

You don't have to be gate keeper of anything. You simply have to acknowledge this statement as FACT: "A true follower of the teachings of Lord Jesus cannot be greedy"

You said believe in god.

Now you've changed the statement. This was your initial statement: "Following Jesus Christ is about the easiest way to do it - because his spirit in you will make that your default position - no need for elaborate mantras or meditations!" You made no mention of true follower.

LordReed:


You said believe in god.

Now you've changed the statement. This was your initial statement: "Following Jesus Christ is about the easiest way to do it - because his spirit in you will make that your default position - no need for elaborate mantras or meditations!" You made no mention of true follower.

What do you mean I said believe in god?

And I later elaborated clearly that "Following Jesus Christ and having His spirit in you means truly following his teachings. Come off it sir, you are arguing in circles. Clearly I can't be an atheist and also believe in Christ. Same way you can't follow the teaching "don't be of this world, don't be an accumulator of stuff in this world" and also be greedy!

PoliteActivist:


What do you mean I said believe in god?

And I later elaborated clearly that "Following Jesus Christ abd having His spirit in you" means truly following his teachings. Come off it, you are arguing in circles. Clearly I can't be an atheist and also believe in Christ. Same way you can't follow the teaching "don't be of this world, don't be an accumulator of stuff in this world" and also be greedy!

Not arguing in any circles, there are Christian atheists if you don't know, accepting Jesus' teachings but not his godhood or any god . However by definition an atheist cannot also believe in god, just like a TV cannot be on and off at the same time nor can there be square circles or 5 sided triangles. The definition precludes it from being something else. So may be look for another analogy.

How do you know who has Jesus' spirit and is truly following his teachings? Can you give a well known contemporary example.

LordReed:


Not arguing in any circles, there are Christian atheists if you don't know, accepting Jesus' teachings but not his godhood or any god . However by definition an atheist cannot also believe in god, just like a TV cannot be on and off at the same time nor can there be square circles or 5 sided triangles. The definition precludes it from being something else. So may be look for another analogy.

How do you know who has Jesus' spirit and is truly following his teachings? Can you give a well known contemporary example.

Right after you said you are not arguing in circles you exhibited the contrary: "Christian atheist" is the ultimate oxymoron, in same league with hot ice or cold heat.
As for examples, you may start with all these monks, nuns, and those who took a vow of poverty for the gosple.

PoliteActivist:


Right after you said you are not arguing in circles you exhibited the contrary: "Christian atheist" is the ultimate oxymoron, in same league with hot ice or cold heat.
As for examples, you may start with all these monks, nuns, and those who took a vow of poverty for the gosple.

How is it an oxymoron? Actually you are the one trying to posit yourself as the ultimate oxymoron.

Are you a monk or a nun or have you taken a vow of poverty? If not then how are you truly following Jesus' teachings?

LordReed:


How is it an oxymoron? Actually you are the one trying to posit yourself as the ultimate oxymoron.

Are you a monk or a nun or have you taken a vow of poverty? If not then how are you truly following Jesus' teachings?

You asked for well-kmowm examples and I gave them to you. I am not well-known and I can tell you I am anything, so that's irrelevant.

There's a fundamental difference between being a Christian and having ideals on issues that perhaps align with some of the teachings of Lord Jesus. Christ Himself said that the GREATEST commandment was to "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul", how can one claim to be doing that while lacking a belief in said God? Lord Jesus taught that he is one with God, that he is God. It is the ultimate oxymoron to say you are following Him while at the same time your title is "I don't believe in God" ("atheist"!

PoliteActivist:


You asked well-kmowm examples and I gave them to you. Am not well-known and I can tell you I am anything, so that's irrelevant.

There's a fundamental difference between being a Christian and having ideals on issues that perhaps align with some of the teachings of Lord Jesus. Christ Himself said that the GREATEST commandment was to "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul", how can one claim to be doing that while lacking a belief in said God? Lord Jesus taught that he is one with God, that he is God. It is the ultimate oxymoron to say you are following Him while at the same time your title is "I don't believe in God" ("atheist"!

It matters because it is part of your claim. How do you know if one is truly following the teachings of Jesus and how are you an example?

Which part of "rejects the theistic claims of Christianity" is hard for you to understand? Why can't someone see Jesus as merely a preacher of good ideals and not a divine being?

LordReed:


It matters because it is part of your claim. How do you know if one is truly following the teachings of Jesus and how are you an example?

Which part of "rejects the theistic claims of Christianity" is hard for you to understand? Why can't someone see Jesus as merely a preacher of good ideals and not a divine being?

You can see Jesus as anything you wish, but you can't
"reject the theistic claims of Christianity" and still say you are a Christian. Which part of that is hard for you to understand? It is like saying Allah does not exist but call yourself a moslem because you enjoy slamming your head on the floor!

What is part of my claim? What do you mean?
We are talking about greed. One who is truly following the teachings of Christ won't be greedy. That's a FACT. It is neither an opinion nor a claim.

PoliteActivist:


You can see Jesus as anything you wish, but you can't
"reject the theistic claims of Christianity" and still say you are a Christian. Which part of that is hard for you to understand? It is like saying Allah does not exist but call yourself a moslem because you enjoy slamming your head on the floor!

What is part of my claim? What do you mean?
We are talking about greed. One who is truly following the teachings of Christ won't be greedy. That's a FACT. It is neither an opinion nor a claim.

Which part of the definition of Christian requires belief in god?

You haven't answered how you know someone is truly following and if you are truly following.

LordReed:


Which part of the definition of Christian requires belief in god?

You haven't answered how you know someone is truly following and if you are truly following.

This discussion is becoming ridiculous.
You know the teachings of Christ. If someone exhibits greed they are not following them!
To call yourself a Christian at the most basic level, you MUST not only believe there is a god, but that there is ONLY one God.

PoliteActivist:


This discussion is becoming ridiculous.
You know the teachings of Christ. If someone exhibits greed they are not following them!
To call yourself a Christian at the most basic level, you MUST not only believe there is a god, but that there is ONLY one God.

It's becoming ridiculous because you make it so. I asked very direct questions and you insist on kurukere moves, why won't the discussion become ridiculous.

LordReed:


It's becoming ridiculous because you make it so. I asked very direct questions and you insist on kurukere moves, why won't the discussion become ridiculous.

Ok, here are your type of questions:
How do you know someone is truly an atheist?
Are you truly an atheist if you are also a Christian (believes in Christ)?
Which part of atheist says you can't also be a Moslem or Christian or any of the hundreds gods-believing religions?!

PoliteActivist:


Ok, here are your type of questions:
How do you know someone is truly an atheist?
Are you truly an atheist if you are also a Christian (believes in Christ)?
Which part of atheist says you can't also be a Moslem or Christian or any of the hundreds gods-believing religions?!

Their statement that they don't believe in any god.

You can be an atheist and practise religion, nothing about being atheist says you can't practise religion. Atheist simply means you lack belief in gods, it has no creeds or strictures.

LordReed:


Their statement that they don't believe in any god.

You can be an atheist and practise religion, nothing about being atheist says you can't practise religion. Atheist simply means you lack belief in gods, it has no creeds or strictures.

See why I said the discussion has become ridiculous?
How do you know they truly lack belief in god?? That's the type of questions you ask - like "how do you know a greedy pastor is not following the teachings of Christ?"
See the definition of religion below. Specifically. Abrahamic religions start with belief in God. Unless you are just using it as an adjective - Christian buildings, Moslem clothings.

PoliteActivist:


See why I said the discussion has become ridiculous?
How do you know they truly lack belief in god?? That's the type of questions you ask - like "how do you know a greedy pastor is not following the teachings of Christ?"
See the definition of religion below. Specifically. Abrahamic religions start with belief in God. Unless you are just using it as an adjective - Christian buildings, Moslem clothings.

When did I ask you "how do you know a greedy pastor is not following the teachings of Christ?"? I don't ask you to decode someone else's mind which is why I asked you if you are truly following as you say so you can tell me your mind. Of course anyone can lie about what they truly think, if you feel that is the way you want to go why do you think I can stop you?

There are more definitions of religion not just the one you brought up and I am using the 2nd definition as seen in the screenshot.

Your issue is you don't want to honestly answer questions, instead you want to weave and dodge. I have asked you how many times now if you are a true follower but you bring up all sorts of other things just so you won't answer it, yet you are asking why the conversation is getting ridiculous.

LordReed:


When did I ask you "how do you know a greedy pastor is not following the teachings of Christ?"? I don't ask you to decode someone else's mind which is why I asked you if you are truly following as you say so you can tell me your mind. Of course anyone can lie about what they truly think, if you feel that is the way you want to go why do you think I can stop you?

There are more definitions of religion not just the one you brought up and I am using the 2nd definition as seen in the screenshot.

Your issue is you don't want to honestly answer questions, instead you want to weave and dodge. I have asked you how many times now if you are a true follower but you bring up all sorts of other things just so you won't answer it, yet you are asking why the conversation is getting ridiculous.

You did say greedy pastors are following the teachings of Christ and even selectively gave bible verses to buttress your argument.

YES I AM A TRUE FOLLOWER!!!
Now answer if you are a true atheist.

Per second definition, faith in what and worship of what? See hiw ludicrous?

PoliteActivist:


You did say greedy pastors are following the teachings of Christ and even selectively gave bible verses to buttress your argument.

YES I AM A TRUE FOLLOWER!!!
Now answer if you are a true atheist.

Per second definition, faith in what and worship of what? See hiw ludicrous?

I am an atheist. True is not an adjective I would use to describe myself or any atheist since I am not the gatekeeper of atheism. I only know about people what people express, if they tell me they are an atheist then I will take their word for it until they tell me otherwise or I get evidence to the contrary.

Yes I said greedy pastors are following the teachings of Jesus and showed you the verses they themselves use to justify their position which are teachings of Jesus.

Faith and worship used there are nouns not verbs. Faith as in the collection of doctrines of a particular religion eg Christian faith, Hindu faith, Worship as in the liturgical aspects like music and songs. These are things any one can participate in without belief in a deity. Singing a Christian or Hindu song doesn't mean I believe in the Christian or Hindu god(s).

Now, what are you doing that the greedy pastors are not doing that makes you a true follower while they aren't.

LordReed:


I am an atheist. True is not an adjective I would use to describe myself or any atheist since I am not the gatekeeper of atheism. I only know about people what people express, if they tell me they are an atheist then I will take their word for it until they tell me otherwise or I get evidence to the contrary.

Yes I said greedy pastors are following the teachings of Jesus and showed you the verses they themselves use to justify their position which are teachings of Jesus.

Faith and worship used there are nouns not verbs. Faith as in the collection of doctrines of a particular religion eg Christian faith, Hindu faith, Worship as in the liturgical aspects like music and songs. These are things any one can participate in without belief in a deity. Singing a Christian or Hindu song doesn't mean I believe in the Christian or Hindu god(s).

Now, what are you doing that the greedy pastors are not doing that makes you a true follower while they aren't.

So, ok, now we know you are not a true atheist, just someone who says he is an atheist.

You deceptively and selectively gave verses to buttress your argument, and I corrected and debunked you. You never said anything about those being verses they themselves use.

So in "worship of" the word worship is a noun not a verb?? See why this discussion is ridiculous?

Even the definition of worship as a noun contradicts you (see below)

Difference from greedy pastors - I'm not greedy for one thing

PoliteActivist:


So, ok, now we know you are not a true atheist, just someone who says he is an atheist.

You deceptively and selectively gave verses to buttress your argument, and I corrected and debunked you. You never said anything about those being verses they themselves use.

So in "worship of" the word worship is a noun not a verb?? See why this discussion is ridiculous?

Even the definition of worship as a noun contradicts you (see below)

Difference from greedy pastors - I'm not greedy for one thing

Who is a true atheist?

Here is Gloria Copeland:

Seek God First
Gloria Copeland

Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Matthew 6:33

Whenever Ken and I talk about living by faith, I know there are some people who think, Oh, that's easy for you. You're preachers. You have it made! And, in some ways, we do. We have it made because our calling demands that we give God our attention, and giving God your attention always brings success.

But we haven't always lived that way. In fact, the first time I ever saw Kenneth Copeland, he was about as far from a preacher as I figured you could get. He flew planes and sang in nightclubs. As for me, I was a college girl who said she would never marry a preacher and who had never even heard about the new birth.

Right after we got married, Ken went into a business enterprise that we thought was going to make us rich. So I quit my job and went to work for this new company. Two weeks later it folded.

We ended up sleeping on a rented rollaway bed that sagged in the middle. We had a wrought-iron coffee table Ken made in high school and a black and white TV. Nothing else. No refrigerator. No stove. I cooked in my coffee pot and an electric skillet and used a cardboard box on the porch to keep our food cold.

We were flat broke. Unemployed. Deeply in debt. I had nowhere to go. No furniture. No nothing.

Then one day I picked up the Bible Ken's mother had given him for his birthday. In the front she'd written this verse, "Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." I turned and read Matthew 6. It said God cared for the birds. For the first time in my life it got into my heart that God cared where I was and what I was doing. I figured if He cared for birds, He cared for me! I knelt in that bare room and told Jesus that if He could do anything with my life, He could certainly have it. That's all I remember saying.

I had no idea I had just been born again. Two weeks later Ken found a new job. We moved to a new furnished apartment and bought a better car. In the midst of it all, something else happened—Ken got born again.

Don't worry if you don't "have it made." We certainly didn't when all this started. Just stick with God and let Him make you. He is a good God who is good to all (Psalms 145:9).

Make a decision in your heart to seek Him first. Then all the other things will be added.
https://www.kcm.org/read/faith-to-faith/12/10?language_content_entity=en-US

Pray tell how I selectively and deceptively quoted verses to support my argument when I am literarily quoting a preacher?

As for worship note the 2nd meaning in the screenshot below.

So can someone follow the teachings of Jesus and still be greedy?

LordReed:


Who is a true atheist?

Here is Gloria Copeland:


Pray tell how I selectively and deceptively quoted verses to support my argument when I am literarily quoting a preacher?

As for worship note the 2nd meaning in the screenshot below.

So can someone follow the teachings of Jesus and still be greedy?

Article is too long for me to read.

A true atheist is one who is not trying to be Christian at same time. A Christian must believe in God. See below.

I know you know your Bible. You carefully avoided all the places Christ addressed greed and instead quoted something in part, thinking I wouldn't know the full quotation.

Christians worship GOD. If u are worshipping nothing while going through Christian motions, you not a Christian.

PoliteActivist:


Article is too long for me to read.

A true atheist is one who is not trying to be Christian at same time. A Christian must believe in God. See below.

I know you know your Bible. You carefully avoided all the places Christ addressed greed and instead quoted something in part, thinking I wouldn't know the full quotation.

Christians worship GOD. If u are worshipping nothing while going through Christian motions, you not a Christian.

If a true atheist is as you describe then why did you say I am not a true atheist?

Look at this one with his kurukere moves, I literarily just quoted a preacher and you are accusing me of avoiding something while complaining of the length of the article because you don't want to honestly engage. Projection at it's finest. Na so. LMFAO!

Question again in case you didn't see it: So can someone follow the teachings of Jesus and still be greedy?

LordReed:


If a true atheist is as you describe then why did you say I am not a true atheist?

Look at this one with his kurukere moves, I literarily just quoted a preacher and you are accusing me of avoiding something while complaining of the length of the article because you don't want to honestly engage. Projection at it's finest. Na so. LMFAO!

Question again in case you didn't see it: So can someone follow the teachings of Jesus and still be greedy?

YOU the one said "true" does not apply to you.

Why didn't you post this before or indicate that's how you got your partial quote. Truth is you don't need to quote any pastor. You know your Bible well. You know fully well Christ's teachings on greed.

The answer to your question is so obvious it doesn't need answering. THE ANSWER IS AN EMPHATIC NO!

PoliteActivist:


YOU the one said "true" does not apply to you.

Why didn't you post this before or indicate that's how you got your partial quote. Truth is you don't need to quote any pastor. You know your Bible well. You know fully well Christ's teachings on greed.

The answer to your question is so obvious it doesn't need answering. THE ANSWER IS AN EMPHATIC NO!

I said I don't use it. You who does use it set a parameter that doesn't apply to me yet you excluded me why?

I did tell you before that I was quoting preachers, I just decided you needed to see it for yourself.

So who's teachings are these preachers who are quoting Jesus' teachings following? Also are these preachers Christian or not?

LordReed:


I said I don't use it. You who does use it set a parameter that doesn't apply to me yet you excluded me why?

I did tell you before that I was quoting preachers, I just decided you needed to see it for yourself.

So who's teachings are these preachers who are quoting Jesus' teachings following? Also are these preachers Christian or not?

If you don't use it then it doesn't apply to you, so why worry about it?

You were selectively and deceptively quoting the bible TO PROVE THAT A FOLLOWER OF CHRIST TEACHING CAN BE GREEDY. It had nothing to do with quoting any pastor! You know the bible well and know the sum total of Christ's teachings on greed. You need not quote any pastor and you never said in the OP that you were quoting pastors.

Of course the pastors are Christians (their beliefs make them Christians - which is why an atheist can't at same time be a Christian).
But they are not DISCIPLES.

You have no argument left.

As a parting gift, I know you'll like the below

PoliteActivist:


If you don't use it then it doesn't apply to you, so why worry about it?

You were selectively and deceptively quoting the bible TO PROVE THAT A FOLLOWER OF CHRIST TEACHING CAN BE GREEDY. It had nothing to do with quoting any pastor! You know the bible well and know the sum total of Christ's teachings on greed. You need not quote any pastor and you never said in the OP that you were quoting pastors.

Of course the pastors are Christians (their beliefs make them Christians - which is why an atheist can't at same time be a Christian).
But they are not DISCIPLES.

You have no argument left.

As a parting gift, I know you'll like the below

Not worried just want to know why you said it. You really prefer to dodge questions don't you.

Which OP? I am not the OP. In several of my comments to you I mentioned it and even now after you know I am quoting pastors you are still behaving like a lil kid.

The pastors are Christians but not truly following Jesus but somehow atheists can not be Christian and also not be truly following Jesus? Are you not confused? LMFAO!

Nah I am fine without longing for imaginary streets of gold.

LordReed:


Not worried just want to know why you said it. You really prefer to dodge questions don't you.

Which OP? I am not the OP. In several of my comments to you I mentioned it and even now after you know I am quoting pastors you are still behaving like a lil kid.

The pastors are Christians but not truly following Jesus but somehow atheists can not be Christian and also not be truly following Jesus? Are you not confused? LMFAO!

Nah I am fine without longing for imaginary streets of gold.

Your OP means your original post (about the matter).

You were quoting the BIBLE not pastors. And you know the bible well, so you were intentionally being selective and deceptive to win an argument.

The pastors professed beliefs make them Christians. Their conducts disqualifies them being disciples.

You sure you don't wanna go to heaven?? Well to each his own.
By the way, I read that thread on nature of reality. That guy really trounced you
Take good care.

PoliteActivist:


Your OP means your original post (about the matter).

You were quoting the BIBLE not pastors. And you know the bible well, so you were intentionally being selective and deceptive to win an argument.

The pastors professed beliefs make them Christians. Their conducts disqualifies them being disciples.

You sure you don't wanna go to heaven?? Well to each his own.
By the way, I read that thread on nature of reality. That guy really trounced you
Take good care.

Oh you mean the Matrix guy? LMAO! Of course you'd prefer a believer in fairy tales, birds of a feather and all that. LMFAO!

LordReed:


Oh you mean the Matrix guy? LMAO! Of course you'd prefer a believer in fairy tales, birds of a feather and all that. LMFAO!

You should up your game. It is at the very beginning that an argument is won or lost. Just like here, you lost once you said that a true follower of the teaching "do not be greedy" can still be greedy. You couldn't quite recover after that no matter what you quoted - because your initial stand did you in.

PoliteActivist:


You should up your game. It is at the very beginning that an argument is won or lost. Just like here, you lost once you said that a true follower of the teaching "do not be greedy" can still be greedy. You couldn't quite recover after that no matter what you quoted - because your initial stand did you in.

Thanks for the advice I'll keep it mind for next time. Meanwhile I never said a true follower of the teaching "do not be greedy" can still be greedy, dunno where you got that from.

LordReed:


Thanks for the advice I'll keep it mind for next time. Meanwhile I never said a true follower of the teaching "do not be greedy" can still be greedy, dunno where you got that from.

You are welcome.

So what do you call these exchanges below. That's exactly what you were saying

PoliteActivist:


You are welcome.

So what do you call these exchanges below. That's exactly what you were saying

Where in any of these did I write follower of do not be greedy?