Dapo777:
@brotherjohn Where did u get ur own interpretation that the baby there refers to the system by Which it wants to carry it out?
What is ur source, I want to know.

@Dapo777.... Brother John doesn't engage too much in arguments, especially when it comes to blind arguments. I am the one who pushed him to even make posts on this forum. Even myself, I used to debate people before, but I am beginning to see the wisdom of not engaging in endless debates. But if you don't mind, let me answer with my little knowledge.

Babylon is the worldly system. If you read the two articles he posted, you will discover the language with which God was explaining these things in the Book of Revelation. Strong's Dictionary explains, From H1101, explains Babylon to mean confusion; Babel (that is, Babylon), including Babylonia and the Babylonian empire: - Babel, Babylon.

So, it is not just a physical entity, but a spiritual entity.

Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

As you can see, Babylon is referred to as a "she" and is represented by a woman. This is similar to the way the Church is referred to as a woman as well. So, it is the world government that is headed by Satan.

I hope that helps.

BraveGuy:


@Dapo777.... Brother John doesn't engage too much in arguments, especially when it comes to blind arguments. I am the one who pushed him to even make posts on this forum. Even myself, I used to debate people before, but I am beginning to see the wisdom of not engaging in endless debates. But if you don't mind, let me answer with my little knowledge.

Babylon is the worldly system. If you read the two articles he posted, you will discover the language with which God was explaining these things in the Book of Revelation. Strong's Dictionary explains, From H1101, explains Babylon to mean confusion; Babel (that is, Babylon), including Babylonia and the Babylonian empire: - Babel, Babylon.

So, it is not just a physical entity, but a spiritual entity.

Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

As you can see, Babylon is referred to as a "she" and is represented by a woman. This is similar to the way the Church is referred to as a woman as well. So, it is the world government that is headed by Satan.

I hope that helps.

Ok I get.
But What I don't get is why is the Bible written like a puzzle that an average person won't understand it,is it on purpose? If Yes,why?

egift:




In religion, people have individual experiences - be it Hindu, Islam, Christianity, etc - Even the Native Doctor in my village did not believe his Oracle on hear-say - He has personal experiences that proves to him that the Oracle has power.

Rubbish. The overwhelming majority of people, including you and I, simply joined a religion by following our parents to the church, mosque, or synagogue.

What you call a personal experience is preceded by a thorough brainwashing by a child's parents.

Weah96:

Rubbish. The overwhelming majority of people, including you and I, simply joined a religion by following our parents to the church, mosque, or synagogue.

What you call a personal experience is preceded by a thorough brainwashing by a child's parents.

Real believers are not stupid, if that is what you think.

What about those who have NEVER been to a church or had any form of religion, but experienced a personal encounter with God? I will cite one or two examples - Akiane Kramarik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akiane_Kramarik) and Dr. Donald Whitaker (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVmNf-KtVs0).

Dapo777:

Ok I get.
But What I don't get is why is the Bible written like a puzzle that an average person won't understand it,is it on purpose? If Yes,why?

I appreciate your understanding and question so far.

The reason why it is written like that and the average person does not get it is because most of us are truly not interested. ANYONE who is truly interested will find the truth. Jesus says everyone who asks will receive, to those who seek they will find and those who knock the door will be opened.

Most so-called Christians are too lazy to read/study the Bible for themselves are being deceived by the pimps who occupy the pulpits with their prosperity Gospel; they too can't understand because they have allowed themselves to be deceived into believing that what they need to be asking for is just money and some other selfish worldly gain.

Even the Bible says these things a kept as mysteries, but they are now being revealed at this End Time, for obedience to the Gospel. Anyone who is ready to obey will seek and as they seek, will understand. Otherwise, it will always be a closed Book to those who just want to criticize or seek selfish worldly ambitions.

Personally, this has been my experience.

BraveGuy:


I appreciate your understanding and question so far.

The reason why it is written like that and the average person does not get it is because most of us are truly not interested. ANYONE who is truly interested will find the truth. Jesus says everyone who asks will receive, to those who seek they will find and those who knock the door will be opened.

Most so-called Christians are too lazy to read/study the Bible for themselves are being deceived by the pimps who occupy the pulpits with their prosperity Gospel; they too can't understand because they have allowed themselves to be deceived into believing that what they need to be asking for is just money and some other selfish worldly gain.

Even the Bible says these things a kept as mysteries, but they are now being revealed at this End Time, for obedience to the Gospel. Anyone who is ready to obey will seek and as they seek, will understand. Otherwise, it will always be a closed Book to those who just want to criticize or seek selfish worldly ambitions.

Personally, this has been my experience.

If someone can tell u he doesn't understand the Bible,then it means the person is interested enough to even read the Bible,despite being interested in the Bible,he still notices some contradictions and vague expressions in the Bible. Despite his interest.

Why is this So?

Dapo777:


If someone can tell u he doesn't understand the Bible,then it means the person is interested enough to even read the Bible,despite being interested in the Bible,he still notices some contradictions and vague expressions in the Bible. Despite his interest.

Why is this So?

Personally, I have noticed that ANYONE who follows God and comes across puzzles, when he asks God does answer to clarify.

Like I said, I was like that for a long while following what I was being taught from the pulpit through both genuine and fake preachers. The hunger within me just made me ask unending questions, with no one coming to my rescue. This stopped one day when out of desperation (as it were), I began to read the Gospel of Luke critically, I wanted to discover WHAT the secret of healing was, because it was also written by a doctor. That study took me into a deeper understanding, yet I wasn't satisfied, but my hunger never abated.

You know, when you desire to buy a particular thing, say a red Mercedes C-class with special alloys, you suddenly become aware of similar things; that was what happened to me, too. Then I met another believer who used the Tabernacle of Moses to explain a few things to me. When I understood this, it was like I entered into a different world. Then I saw the writings of Brother John (www.brotherjohn.org) and all the questions from the Bible readings I had read/studied previously began to get answered one by one as I began to see things from a different perspective.

Btw, Brother wrote two articles that explained this properly:
1. http://brotherjohn.org/the-pattern-the-letter-and-the-veil/
&
2. http://brotherjohn.org/the-pattern-the-letter-the-veil-2/

@Dapo777

I just perused those articles again, I think Brother John has explained it better than I could have done, especially the 2nd article, it really answers your question in detail:
http://brotherjohn.org/the-pattern-the-letter-the-veil-2/.

BraveGuy:
@Dapo777

I just perused those articles again, I think Brother John has explained it better than I could have done, especially the 2nd article, it really answers your question in detail:
http://brotherjohn.org/the-pattern-the-letter-the-veil-2/.

Have gone there to check but It's too long.can u summarize?

BraveGuy:


Real believers are not stupid, if that is what you think.

What about those who have NEVER been to a church or had any form of religion, but experienced a personal encounter with God? I will cite one or two examples - Akiane Kramarik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akiane_Kramarik) and Dr. Donald Whitaker (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVmNf-KtVs0).

This topic has been discussed here before. Have you heard of the endogenous chemical called dimethyltryptamine?

In addition to that, the girl comes from a family of artistic repute.

Weah96:


This topic has been discussed here before. Have you heard of the endogenous chemical called dimethyltryptamine?

In addition to that, the girl comes from a family of artistic repute.

While I don't want to get into fruitless arguments with you on the point you made (which can easily be refuted), what about Dr. Donald Whitaker? Was his case dimethyltryptamine, too?

Please think through before jumping to conclusions. If I were you and I am truly in search of the truth, I will track the man down and ask him objective questions.

Dapo777:

Have gone there to check but It's too long.can u summarize?

Without due respect to you, Dapo777, what you just did there is the major problem with us all (not just you). We are too lazy to genuinely SEEK the truth. I am quite sure there was a $1million offer on that page (or even the whole website) to the person who read every jot and tittle, you (and I) will be among contenders. And this is where the problem lies as to the answer to your WHY.

Let me try the summary:
1. Jesus shared the parable of the sower with the crowd.
2. The crowd heard the basic (intellectual) version similar to almost every page of the Bible and left (they left without understanding).
3. Jesus sat afterwards and was by Himself.
4. The disciples, wondered at the meaning, like many do with the Scriptures today.
5. The disciples went back to Jesus for clarity.
6. Jesus goes beyond the intellectual and gives them the spiritual version.
7. You get to know, if you ask God, what the meaning of His Word is and He will explain.

Brother John explains further:
8. The spiritual understanding has two levels.
9. There is Holy Place (height - looking up) understanding.
10. There is Holy of Holies (depth - looking down) understanding.
Either depending on what amount you can receive, like a primary school pupil compared with a graduate.

All the explanations are explained with the pattern of Moses' Tabernacle that has the Outer Court, Holy Place and Holy of Holies.
The Bible informs us that this tabernacle of Moses was a SHADOW of the real, which Jesus tried to explain, but they accused Him of blasphemy.

He concludes the article this way:
Exclusivity of Understanding
Does it mean that understanding the Scriptures is exclusive? Yes and No.

Yes, because God does not want to give what is holy to dogs and neither will He cast His precious pearls before swine (Matthew 7:6).

No, because He sincerely wants everyone to come to the knowledge of Truth (2 Peter 3:9).

Can you get into this exclusive club? Yes, if you so desire. He says, “Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.” [Matthew 5:6]

If you read that Verse in Isaiah clearly, you will discover that it says the testimony is for disciples. Who is a disciple? A disciple is properly defined by Jesus:

“And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, if any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” [Luke 14:25-26]

Only disciples are granted to know the deep things of God. Are you a disciple? If you are, this is where your journey of true meditation starts. It is not complicated for a believer who truly wants to live the life of Christ, it is as natural as breathing and it is a normal experience for anyone ready to walk with God.

– Disciples understand because they ask – if you don’t ask you don’t get.
– They understand because they spend time with Him.
– They understand because they are READY to obey.
– They understand because they are His Friends
– They are His friends because they desire Him and have surrendered their souls to Him

Yes, because God does not want to give what is holy to dogs and neither will He cast His precious pearls before swine (Matthew 7:6).

No, because He sincerely wants everyone to come to the knowledge of Truth (2 Peter 3:9).

Can you get into this exclusive club? Yes, if you so desire. He says, “Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.” [Matthew 5:6]

If you read that Verse in Isaiah clearly, you will discover that it says the testimony is for disciples. Who is a disciple? A disciple is properly defined by Jesus:

“And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, if any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” [Luke 14:25-26]

I would like to add:
Proverbs 25:2 tells us, "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter."

And calls us kings and priest. that is why He says, "STUDY to show yourself approved", those who refuse to study are simply disqualifying themselves. No reasonable organization will throw an incompetent person to handle a skilful job such as surgery, engineering, architecture, etc.

Think about that.

BraveGuy:

what about Dr. Donald Whitaker? Was his case dimethyltryptamine, too?
.

Did you even read ANYTHING about DMT? The answer is a resounding YES.

Weah96:


Did you even read ANYTHING about DMT? The answer is a resounding YES.

Maybe you should read this page as well: http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-drug-dimethyltryptamine.html

Then going by your foolish conclusions, everyone that has ever had a vision of Jesus was using a DMT to do so, isn't it?
Paul the apostle must have used one as he persecuted Christ's people and he encountered Jesus in a vision, and because of that he wants to serve him, isn't it?

The testimony of Muslims such as Rahim, Rene, Reza, Shahrokh and Akela encountering Jesus was as a result of DMT, isn't it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnanHqe5YWM

You make conclusions when you have not thought things through.
People like you, out of your pride, make forums like this disinteresting.

BraveGuy:


Maybe you should read this page as well: http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-drug-dimethyltryptamine.html

Then going by your foolish conclusions, everyone that has ever had a vision of Jesus was using a DMT to do so, isn't it?
Paul the apostle must have used one as he persecuted Christ's people and he encountered Jesus in a vision, and because of that he wants to serve him, isn't it?

The testimony of Muslims such as Rahim, Rene, Reza, Shahrokh and Akela encountering Jesus was as a result of DMT, isn't it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnanHqe5YWM

You make conclusions when you have not thought things through.
People like you, out of your pride, make forums like this disinteresting.

Do you expect me to believe the Paul story when I could just as easily believe any number of stories in Greek and Roman mythology? Get real.

Here you are, a full grown adult, presenting the Saul conversion story as proof of what?

Why even mention folklore when we're discussing reality?

Dapo777:


Ok let me also assume the "he" is not Yahweh for the sake of argument, why is happiness promised to "he" that smash Babylon's baby on rock? Why is smashing of babies encouraged in the "holy" Bible? If u ignore this question like you usually do other difficult questions I would assume u Av accepted ur folly.

I also assume you now know you goofed to think that God ordered anybody in Psalm 137:9. i also assume you know again you goofed to think yet that God smashed anything after reading Psalm 137:9. Do you see your ego, pride and stubbornness to accept you were wrong in such so simple almost inconsequential matter as comprehending some verse you don't believe in? Yet, God Almighty is expected by same you to tell you/accept He supposedly made a mistake?

i have not ignored ANY of your questions, maybe you didn't like my answers though. You want "oh God is wicked, i don't even know why He did that, but He's now behaving sha". Get real, that's a wrong answer. Also, note that even if we got 7billion votes, signatures, online petitions finding God guilty. It will still be a lie, vanity, and myopic perspective.
There is no promise in Psalm 137:9. Also, smashing of babies is not encouraged in the bible.i'll advice you to read Psalm 137, the whole chapter again and in context. Read without bias and perhaps from a easier bible version.

Dapo777:


He already accepted that he jumped into conclusion,why don't u tell him What psalm 137:9 is rather than beating around the bush.
This is What Christians do When They are faced with difficult questions. They start beating around the bush to escape the question and hide their folly.

Either you're dishonest or your english literacy is poor. Read carefully, honestly and with aid this time around.

Peterken05:


why not tell me what it is? I dont wanna jump to hasty conclusions.

BraveGuy:


While I don't want to get into fruitless arguments with you on the point you made (which can easily be refuted), what about Dr. Donald Whitaker? Was his case dimethyltryptamine, too?

Please think through before jumping to conclusions. If I were you and I am truly in search of the truth, I will track the man down and ask him objective questions.

define objective questions?

What type of objective questions?

Examples?

Dapo777:

Have gone there to check but It's too long.can u summarize?

lazy boy.hehehe

Image123:


Either you're dishonest or your english literacy is poor. Read carefully, honestly and with aid this time around.

What Ar u talking abt? U Ar So confused

Image123:


I also assume you now know you goofed to think that God ordered anybody in Psalm 137:9. i also assume you know again you goofed to think yet that God smashed anything after reading Psalm 137:9. Do you see your ego, pride and stubbornness to accept you were wrong in such so simple almost inconsequential matter as comprehending some verse you don't believe in? Yet, God Almighty is expected by same you to tell you/accept He supposedly made a mistake?

i have not ignored ANY of your questions, maybe you didn't like my answers though. You want "oh God is wicked, i don't even know why He did that, but He's now behaving sha". Get real, that's a wrong answer. Also, note that even if we got 7billion votes, signatures, online petitions finding God guilty. It will still be a lie, vanity, and myopic perspective.
There is no promise in Psalm 137:9. Also, smashing of babies is not encouraged in the bible.i'll advice you to read Psalm 137, the whole chapter again and in context. Read without bias and perhaps from a easier bible version.

You are still beating around the bush boy!
You haven't answered my question,because I can't see who "he" is in your response above.
And u Ar attacking me instead of answering my question, Which is a fallacy called argumentum ad hominem.

Let me ask again fr clarity. Who is the "he" in psalm 137:9?

Who is the "he".in psalm 137:9?

I need a simple answer ,not u telling me about who I am,or my ego bla bla bla.
Just a simple answer to the question! Stop committing argument ad hominem.

To understand the language of God, you have to be new-natured.

The new natured man is one that is no longer bound to the fallen Adamic nature, the carnal man who has become a prisoner to this natural world because of responding to that which it demands.

1 Cor. 2:14 reveals clearly, “but the natural man does not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned”. Scripture tells us that the natural man is unregenerate and devoid of the Holy Spirit, thus there is no appreciation for the things of God, which alone is the light of the world.

Meanwhile the spiritual man is a regenerated being and can possess spiritual maturity with a nature that responds to the light of truth.

BraveGuy:
To understand the language of God, you have to be new-natured.

The new natured man is one that is no longer bound to the fallen Adamic nature, the carnal man who has become a prisoner to this natural world because of responding to that which it demands.

1 Cor. 2:14 reveals clearly, “but the natural man does not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned”. Scripture tells us that the natural man is unregenerate and devoid of the Holy Spirit, thus there is no appreciation for the things of God, which alone is the light of the world.

Meanwhile the spiritual man is a regenerated being and can possess spiritual maturity with a nature that responds to the light of truth.

When u say spiritual man,do u mean a brainwashed man that gives himself any explanation that makes sense to him for obviously senseless things?

Dapo777:

What Ar u talking abt? U Ar So confused

PeterKen said "I don't want to jump". You're saying that he already accepted that he jumped. Go back and read.

Dapo777:


You are still beating around the bush boy!
You haven't answered my question,because I can't see who "he" is in your response above.
And u Ar attacking me instead of answering my question, Which is a fallacy called argumentum ad hominem.

Let me ask again fr clarity. Who is the "he" in psalm 137:9?

Who is the "he".in psalm 137:9?

I need a simple answer ,not u telling me about who I am,or my ego bla bla bla.
Just a simple answer to the question! Stop committing argument ad hominem.

You made some assumptions and asked about promises and encouragement which i replied so stop lying. Perhaps you find it hard to stick to a line of thought. Good to see you learning new things anyway.
Now that it is ESTABLISHED that you goofed totally on Psalm 137:9 and most likely you do same on many theological issues, i'll help you. The 'he' in that verse is unknown, not specific, generic. It is a prayer for retribution stating how whoever would carry out the retribution would feel exactly how the Babylonians felt when they were sowing their action.

Dapo777:


When u say spiritual man,do u mean a brainwashed man that gives himself any explanation that makes sense to him for obviously senseless things?

That sounds like the average atheist so no. That's not a spiritual man's definition.

Image123:


You made some assumptions and asked about promises and encouragement which i replied so stop lying. Perhaps you find it hard to stick to a line of thought. Good to see you learning new things anyway.
Now that it is ESTABLISHED that you goofed totally on Psalm 137:9 and most likely you do same on many theological issues, i'll help you. The 'he' in that verse is unknown, not specific, generic. It is a prayer for retribution stating how whoever would carry out the retribution would feel exactly how the Babylonians felt when they were sowing their action.

So When u don't understand the Bible,the best explanation is that it is unknown?
So how is smashing a baby's head on rock a punishment or retribution?
Why are the babies at the receiving end,What have the babies done to get their head smashed?

Ignore this one and it means u Av accepted how sadistic Yahweh is.

@Dapo777
It is obvious to me that you will make all sorts of excuses against anything presented to you. On that basis, it is unreasonable for me to continue any discussion or exchanges with you on this matter.

If you like blaspheme as much as you want, ridicule as much as you like or give any excuse you want to make yourself look intelligent or proud, that is your prerogative. You've made your choice as to the road you want to walk and I have made mine. So, there is no point arguing against foolishness or blindly against the Bible.

But, I will conclude that you do all that you feel you want to do or say and I will happily do mine on my side as well. As it is written in Ecclesiastes 11:9 "Rejoice, O young man, in thy youth; and let thy heart cheer thee in the days of thy youth, and walk in the ways of thine heart, and in the sight of thine eyes: but know thou, that for all these things God will bring thee into judgment."

@Image123
Let Dapo777 (or whoever) have the last say. Winning an argument does not mean a soul has been saved or God is pleased. For me, I'd rather please God than win an argument. What God expects me to do, I have done.... share the Gospel that God loves and has a plan for every man. But, if after you have shared the Gospel, the people reject it, there is nothing else to be done, the rest is just fruitless intellectual exercise. Your time would be better used doing something fruitful with your time. God bless you, my brother.

Dapo777:

So When u don't understand the Bible,the best explanation is that it is unknown?
So how is smashing a baby's head on rock a punishment or retribution?
Why are the babies at the receiving end,What have the babies done to get their head smashed?

Ignore this one and it means u Av accepted how sadistic Yahweh is.

You were the one i advised to read Psalm 137 again i think? Your laziness and insincerity didn't permit you i guess? The fellow "he" is unknown not just to me but to the psalmist writer. It's a general 'he', that is whoever. i've never ignored you or any of your posts. You can prove that statement wrong. However, if you again insinuate that i'm ignoring you again, i would ignore you. i'm done with your deceit.

Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion. 137:2 We hanged our harps upon the willows in the midst thereof. 137:3 For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song; and they that wasted us required of us mirth, saying, Sing us one of the songs of Zion. 137:4 How shall we sing the LORD's song in a strange land? 137:5 If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning. 137:6 If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy. 137:7 Remember, O LORD, the children of Edom in the day of Jerusalem; who said, Rase it, rase it, even to the foundation thereof. 137:8 O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. 137:9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Retribution means payback. Verses 7and 8 show that Babylon has carried out some action and will be paid back, rewarded, served in the same coin, AS THOU HAS SERVED. Verse 9 is in the same context of retribution to Babylon. So much for literacy.

Image123:


You were the one i advised to read Psalm 137 again i think? Your laziness and insincerity didn't permit you i guess? The fellow "he" is unknown not just to me but to the psalmist writer. It's a general 'he', that is whoever. i've never ignored you or any of your posts. You can prove that statement wrong. However, if you again insinuate that i'm ignoring you again, i would ignore you. i'm done with your deceit.

Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion. 137:2 We hanged our harps upon the willows in the midst thereof. 137:3 For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song; and they that wasted us required of us mirth, saying, Sing us one of the songs of Zion. 137:4 How shall we sing the LORD's song in a strange land? 137:5 If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning. 137:6 If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy. 137:7 Remember, O LORD, the children of Edom in the day of Jerusalem; who said, Rase it, rase it, even to the foundation thereof. 137:8 O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. 137:9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Retribution means payback. Verses 7and 8 show that Babylon has carried out some action and will be paid back, rewarded, served in the same coin, AS THOU HAS SERVED. Verse 9 is in the same context of retribution to Babylon. So much for literacy.

Ok I get ur point.

But u still didn't tackle the question I asked. What offence have babies committed to make them get killed? Let's overlook that ambiguous verse Since u said It's unknown let's consider other verses that God clearly orders the killing of innocent babies.
What is the offence of those babies?
Thanks

BraveGuy:


@Image123
Let Dapo777 (or whoever) have the last say. Winning an argument does not mean a soul has been saved or God is pleased. For me, I'd rather please God than win an argument. What God expects me to do, I have done.... share the Gospel that God loves and has a plan for every man. But, if after you have shared the Gospel, the people reject it, there is nothing else to be done, the rest is just fruitless intellectual exercise. Your time would be better used doing something fruitful with your time. God bless you, my brother.

Thanks brother. i do know and understand what you've said. i'm leaving him and them without an excuse. i'd advice and encourage most christians to abstain from arguing with or even engaging unbelievers. We're generally not called or even built to do that, we're called to preach the gospel and pray and that we can all and should all do. i do what i do when i have the time because by God's grace, i have the gift and calling to do it. He's not left them without a witness and that witness stands against them. Not every believer has that, and i sincerely don't encourage others to do it. Thanks a million.

@braveguy what excuses have I made ooo?
I ask questions When i am not clear of things.

I understand that that Babylon's baby could be symbolic, Ok let's leave that verse Since It's not talking about actual babies and let's look at other verses Where God clearly commands d killing of babies.
What is the offence of those babies killed?
Thanks!