udatso:

"I and the Father are one"
John 10:30 is often quoted to show that Jesus is equal to God. But when you read the verse in its context you will find that the passage taken as a whole proves the opposite.
People are often content to quote the verse in isolation to show that Jesus said "1 and the Father are one" and then the Jews picked up stones to stone him because they understood him to mean that he is claiming to be God. It is only when you read the passage to see what comes before and after this verse that you will realize that the Jews misunderstood what Jesus was saying.
In fact, Jesus tried to explain what he meant, and the explanation he gave is still in the Bible for everyone to see. It is surprising that so many people who say they love Jesus ignore his explanation and repeat the mistake which was made by the enemies of Jesus. Here is the passage as it appears in the New International Version of the Bible:
(22)It was winter,( 23) and Jesus was in the temple area, walking in Solomon's Colonnade. (24) "The Jews gathered around him, saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly." (25)Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, (26)"but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. (27) "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. (28) "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, no one can snatch them out of my hand. (29)"My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. (30) "I and the Father are one."
(31) "Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him,(32) "but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" (33) "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." (34) Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? (35) "If he called them 'gods' to whom the word of God came - and the scripture cannot be broken - (36) "what about one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?"
(John 10:22-36).
The passage when viewed as a whole shows clearly that Jesus is not God. Let us observe the following points:
1. The disbelieving Jews insisted that Jesus should tell them if indeed he is the Christ so they should not remain in suspense about his identity (verse 24). A Christ as the title is used in the Bible refers to a human being who is anointed as King of Israel. The title is used for other humans as well (e.g. Isaiah 45:1, Cyrus the Persian is called God's Christ). The Jews were expecting another Christ (Christ is a Greek equivalent of the Hebrew word Messiah, and the Arabic word Maseeh). So they asked Jesus whether he was the one they were waiting for. Jesus replied that he had already told them, and he even performed miracles in God's name to prove his claim to be the Christ (verse 25), yet they do not believe him (verse 26) because they are not Jesus' sheep (verse 26). Those whom the Father had given to Jesus, are Jesus' sheep (followers), and they believe Jesus when he said that he is the Christ (verses 27-29).

malvisguy212:
all what you wrote are lies and misinterpretation of the word of God.JESUS SAY"BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS,I AM" This mean he exist at the beginning and he use the title God use when He called moses,God say I AM THAT I AM,now compered it to what jesus say"before abraham was I AM"in other word,before the world begin I AM" the quran called jesus the word of God and spirit from God and bible called him son of God,how do you reconcile it?

malvisguy212:
all what you wrote are lies and misinterpretation of the word of God.JESUS SAY"BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS,I AM" This mean he exist at the beginning and he use the title God use when He called moses,God say I AM THAT I AM,now compered it to what jesus say"before abraham was I AM"in other word,before the world begin I AM" the quran called jesus the word of God and spirit from God and bible called him son of God,how do you reconcile it?

udatso:
I like malvisguy212 for this, when he creates topics like this, he gives opportunity to fellow christians to learn as so many things are been exposed. … even though he might not want to learn
at thesame time he saves us the stress of creating the threads .

Larow:
You muslims should stop argueing a clear point! Jesus is clearly God! Your quran clearly acknowledged him as the word of God. How then did God create the world? Its through his word! The question now is ; is d word a creation or a creator! The word is the CREATOR ! Meaning: Jesus is the creator and obviously the LORD of all! Chikena!!!!

Abdulsalam20:


jazakumullahu khairan you are right

udatso:
7. Jesus tried to explain to them that even if he said something which they misinterpreted as meaning that Jesus is claiming to be God, they should realize that some human beings were called gods' in the Bible, and the Jews do not disagree with this (verse 35), so they should not disagree with Jesus so quickly before he gets a chance to explain his words. To get a fuller understanding of what Jesus is saying here, let us refer to the Bible passage to which he called their attention. The passage is in the 82nd Psalm: "I said, 'you are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.' But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler." (Psalms 82:7-
The verse from the Psalms shows that God had honored some humans by calling them "gods." But of course they were not really gods. This is just a figurative expression used in the Bible. Jesus reminded the Jews of this so that they should understand that even if he says something that makes them think he is claiming to be God, they should take it as a figurative expression that does not mean what it sounds like. Furthermore Jesus clarified that what he actually said was that he was God's Son (John 10:36). He says that if others can be called "gods," he does not see why they object to him calling himself God's Son which means that God had selected him and sent him with a message for the people.
The clear meaning of the passage, then, is that Jesus is not God. He is one selected by God (i.e. he is Mustafa) and he is sent by God (i.e. he is God's Messenger). When he calls himself God's Son he means nothing more than that. Yet, despite the detailed study of the passage as above, some will hold on to tradition and reject the explanation that Jesus provided in verses 34-36. They will insist on taking verse 30 out of its context and give it a meaning which Jesus said is the wrong meaning. They will then agree with what the Jews said and disagree with what Jesus said. This attitude leads to confusion, as we will presently see. Even if verse 30 is taken in isolation to change its meaning from what Jesus meant, it does not solve anything. It only raises more problems. Jesus cannot be one and the same as the Father whereas he said himself that the Father is greater than he (John 14:28). Jesus said that he and the Father are in fact two (John 8:14-18). And no one had seen God at any time although they had already seen Jesus John 4:12).
The best solution for all this is to go back to the teachings of Jesus himself, then you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free (John 8:31-32).
Source: IS JESUS GOD by Shabir Ally

Larow:
Abdusalam20! What are you trying to say? Dat am wrong? Didn't the holy quran call Jesus the word? Go back and read my former post and study your quran! After this, come back and talk.

Larow:
Abdusalam20! What are you trying to say? Dat am wrong? Didn't the holy quran call Jesus the word? Go back and read my former post and study your quran! After this, come back and talk.

Rilwayne001:


Masterful exegesis

udatso:

there is a comprehensive reply on this by Dr Zakir Naik. even though this issue has been trashed severally but for the sake of new nlanders and guests, i would address this again
1.
The Qur’an mentions Chapter 3 verse 45"Behold! The angels said: O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus. The son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those Nearest to Allah.
Jesus (pbuh) is referred in the Qur’an as a word from Allah and not as ‘the word of Allah’.
"A word" of Allah means a message of Allah. If a person is referred to as "a word" from Allah, it means that he is a Messenger or a Prophet of Allah.

2.
THE TITLE OF A PROPHET (PBUH) DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT EXCLUSIVELY BELONGS TO THAT PROPHET (PBUH)
Different titles are given to different prophets (pbut). Whenever a title is given to a prophet (pbuh), it does not necessarily mean that the other prophets do not have the same characteristic or quality. For e.g. Prophet Abraham (pbuh) is referred to in the Qur’an as Khaleelullah, a friend of Allah. This does not indicate that all the other Prophets (pbuh) were not the friends of Allah. Prophet Moses (pbuh) is referred to in the Qur’an as Kaleemullah, indicating that God spoke to him. This does not mean that God did not speak to others. Similarly when Jesus (pbuh) is referred to in the Qur’an as Kalimatullah, "a word from Allah", it does not mean that the other Prophets were not "the word," of Allah.

3.
JOHN THE BAPTIST (PBUH) IS ALSO CALLED "A WORD" OF ALLAH
Yahya (pbuh) i.e. John the Baptist (pbuh) is also referred to in the Qur’an as Kalimatullah i.e. a word of Allah in Surah Ali ‘Imran, Chapter 3, verses 38-39
"There did Zakariya Pray to his Lord, saying: "O my Lord! Grant unto me from Thee a progeny that is pure: for Thou art He that heareth prayer!
While he was standing in prayer in the chamber, the angels called unto him: "Allah doth give thee glad tidings of Yahya, witnessing the truth of a Word from Allah, and (be besides) noble, chaste, and a Prophet – of the (goodly) company of the righteous." [Al-Qur’an 3:39]

4.
JESUS (PBUH) REFERRED AS RUHULLAH – A SPIRIT OF ALLAH
Jesus (pbuh) also never referred to as Ruhullah "a spirit of Allah" but as a spirit from Allah in Surah Nisa Chapter 4 verse 171 "O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Jesus Christ the son of Mary was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah, And His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not ‘Trinity’: desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One God: glory be to Him: (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs." [Al-Qur’an 4:171]

5.
SPIRIT OF ALLAH IS BREATHED IN EVERY HUMAN BEING
A spirit from Allah does not indicate that Jesus (pbuh) is God. The Qur’an mentions in several places that Allah breathed into the human beings "His Spirit" in Surah Al-Hijr, chapter 15 verse 29 in Surah Sajdah, chapter 32 verse 9
"When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him." [Al-Qur’an 15:29]
"But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His spirit. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give!"
[Al-Qur’an 32:9]

udatso:
Continuation
Even if God really did announce his name to be "I am" as in Exodus, chapter 3, verse 15, this still does not prove that Jesus applied the name "I am" to himself. Jesus never said his name is "I am". He is quoted as saying “Before Abraham was, I am" (John 8:58). If "I am" is Jesus name, then we should be able to replace the "I am" in this passage with "Jesus," since these are both names of Jesus. The passage would then read as follows: "Before Abraham was, Jesus." This, of course, makes no sense because the idea that Jesus called himself "I am" is not there in the text, but it is someone's own interpretation forced into the text. Notice that we would have no difficulty replacing the "I am" in Exodus 3:15 with either "God" or "Yahweh", as follows: This is what you are to say to the Israelites. "God has sent me to you" (Exod 3:15). This is what you are to say to the Israelites. "Yahweh has sent me to you" (Exod 3: 15).
Another point worth paying attention to is this: the writer of the fourth gospel never believed Jesus to be God. This proves that Jesus never said he is God. Otherwise, how could it be possible that the author of the fourth gospel never knew it? He believed that the Father is the only true God, and that Jesus is the Christ and messenger of God (see John 17:3).
Furthermore, a distinction which is present in the Greek version of the Bible is lost from the English versions. In the Septuagint Greek version of the Old Testament, the phrase translated "I am" is "ho on "in the Greek. If the author of the fourth Gospel wanted to show his readers that Jesus repeated the phrase, he would no doubt have quoted Jesus as saying, "Before Abraham was, ho on." But he did not. Instead, he quoted Jesus as saying, "Before Abraham was, ego eimi." Readers of his Greek manuscript, then, would have seen that Jesus' statement in John 8:58 is different from God's statement in Exodus 3: 15. And this, of course, is what the author ofthe fourth Gospel intended.
Furthermore, the Syriac Peshitta version ofthe Bible, one of the old versions of the Bible, reads in John8:58, "Before Abraham was, I was. " Was this changed from what the author wrote? How can we know? Suppose this was the original phrase, then those who rest their case on the common rendering will be disappointed on the Day of Judgment. Why not rest our case on a much more plain verse of the Bible - one in which Jesus clearly differentiates between himself and God? Take this one for example, where Jesus says to his enemies: You are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God" (John 8:40). Who is Jesus then? A man who told the truth which he heard from God. In other words, he was a messenger of God. When a clear statement like this is issued from the lips of Jesus, why wrangle with the passages that are not so clear, and try to twist them to mean the opposite of what Jesus has been saying in other clear verses all along?
Anyone who wishes to convince himself/herself that Jesus is God should look for clear evidence in the Bible to show that Jesus is God. But the clear evidence is to the contrary. The Bible teaches again and again that Jesus is not God, but a Servant of God (e.g. Matthew 12:18).
In the very next chapter of John, chapter 9, v.35, Jesus declares that he is the son of man (RSV). And anyone who knows the Bible as the Israelites to whom Jesus spoke will know that a son of man cannot be God. The Bible declares that God is neither a man nor a son of man (Numbers 23: 19). How can he be called clean that is born of a woman? Behold even the moon , and it shineth not: yea, the stars are not pure in his sight . How much is man, that is a worm? and the son of man , which is a worm? Gob 25:4-6)
1.
The Qur’an mentions Chapter 3 verse 45"Behold! The angels said: O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus. The son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those Nearest to Allah.
Jesus (pbuh) is referred in the Qur’an as a word from Allah and not as ‘the word of Allah’.
"A word" of Allah means a message of Allah. If a person is referred to as "a word" from Allah, it means that he is a Messenger or a Prophet of Allah.

Rilwayne001:


This is the initial claim of the OP

and here is my reply which none of you are yet to attempt.

Was Jesus refering to himself in my MARK

If not then who is the ONE AND ONLY LORD

udatso:
The truth is there for everyone to see. @ larow May Allah open your eyes to the truth. malvisguy212. thanks for giving us the opportunity to expose the truth.

udatso:
I like malvisguy212 for this, when he creates topics like this, he gives opportunity to fellow christians to learn as so many things are been exposed. … even though he might not want to learn
at thesame time he saves us the stress of creating the threads .

udatso:
"Before Abraham was, l am,"
John 8:58 is one of the most misused verses of the Bible. Because Jesus in that verse says "Before Abraham was, I am," two implications, one unnecessary, and the other false, are drawn from that verse. The unnecessary implication is that since Jesus existed before Abraham that means he existed always. This is a preconceived notion that people force into the text. "Before Abraham" does not mean "always". Melchezidek in the Bible is shown to have existed before Abraham (Hebrews 7:3). Does that mean that Melchezidek is God? Obviously, we cannot take a created being as God.
The false implication is that Jesus by saying "I am" was uttering God's name which God declared to Moses in Exodus 3:14-15. The Bible is confusing On this Point because it gives three versions of God's calling Moses, and the three versions do not agree with each other. The best that can be said is that the name of God announced there is Yahweh. Compare the three versions below:
1. The Yahwist version (Exod 6:28 - 7:7) says nothing about the name of God being revealed because for the Yahwist editors the name Yahweh was already known among the Israelites. They say that this name was being used since the time of Enosh, the grandson of Adam (Genesis 4:26).
2. The priestly version (Exod 6:2-13) contradicts this by saYing that this name was not known before (Exod 6:2). God's command to Moses here is So say to the Israelites, "lam Yahweh ..." (Exod 6:6), and Moses repeated this to them (6:9).

3. But in the Elohist version (Exod 3:13-22) God's instruction to Moses is different. This is what you are to say to the Israelites. "I am has sent me to you" (Exod 3: 15). It would appear from this that God's name is "I am," but it is clear upon careful study that in this passage the Elohist scribes substituted "I am" for "Yahweh" in the same instruction given in (Exod 6:6).

udatso:
"Before Abraham was, l am,"
John 8:58 is one of the most misused verses of the Bible. Because Jesus in that verse says "Before Abraham was, I am," two implications, one unnecessary, and the other false, are drawn from that verse. The unnecessary implication is that since Jesus existed before Abraham that means he existed always. This is a preconceived notion that people force into the text. "Before Abraham" does not mean "always". Melchezidek in the Bible is shown to have existed before Abraham (Hebrews 7:3). Does that mean that Melchezidek is God? Obviously, we cannot take a created being as God.
The false implication is that Jesus by saying "I am" was uttering God's name which God declared to Moses in Exodus 3:14-15. The Bible is confusing On this Point because it gives three versions of God's calling Moses, and the three versions do not agree with each other. The best that can be said is that the name of God announced there is Yahweh. Compare the three versions below:
1. The Yahwist version (Exod 6:28 - 7:7) says nothing about the name of God being revealed because for the Yahwist editors the name Yahweh was already known among the Israelites. They say that this name was being used since the time of Enosh, the grandson of Adam (Genesis 4:26).
2. The priestly version (Exod 6:2-13) contradicts this by saYing that this name was not known before (Exod 6:2). God's command to Moses here is So say to the Israelites, "lam Yahweh ..." (Exod 6:6), and Moses repeated this to them (6:9).

3. But in the Elohist version (Exod 3:13-22) God's instruction to Moses is different. This is what you are to say to the Israelites. "I am has sent me to you" (Exod 3: 15). It would appear from this that God's name is "I am," but it is clear upon careful study that in this passage the Elohist scribes substituted "I am" for "Yahweh" in the same instruction given in (Exod 6:6).

udatso:
"Before Abraham was, l am,"
John 8:58 is one of the most misused verses of the Bible. Because Jesus in that verse says "Before Abraham was, I am," two implications, one unnecessary, and the other false, are drawn from that verse. The unnecessary implication is that since Jesus existed before Abraham that means he existed always. This is a preconceived notion that people force into the text. "Before Abraham" does not mean "always". Melchezidek in the Bible is shown to have existed before Abraham (Hebrews 7:3). Does that mean that Melchezidek is God? Obviously, we cannot take a created being as God.
The false implication is that Jesus by saying "I am" was uttering God's name which God declared to Moses in Exodus 3:14-15. The Bible is confusing On this Point because it gives three versions of God's calling Moses, and the three versions do not agree with each other. The best that can be said is that the name of God announced there is Yahweh. Compare the three versions below:
1. The Yahwist version (Exod 6:28 - 7:7) says nothing about the name of God being revealed because for the Yahwist editors the name Yahweh was already known among the Israelites. They say that this name was being used since the time of Enosh, the grandson of Adam (Genesis 4:26).
2. The priestly version (Exod 6:2-13) contradicts this by saYing that this name was not known before (Exod 6:2). God's command to Moses here is So say to the Israelites, "lam Yahweh ..." (Exod 6:6), and Moses repeated this to them (6:9).

3. But in the Elohist version (Exod 3:13-22) God's instruction to Moses is different. This is what you are to say to the Israelites. "I am has sent me to you" (Exod 3: 15). It would appear from this that God's name is "I am," but it is clear upon careful study that in this passage the Elohist scribes substituted "I am" for "Yahweh" in the same instruction given in (Exod 6:6).

malvisguy212:
read the op and read the coment,up till now,non of you guys has answer my qustion,how do you reconcile this word? Spirit of God,word of God and son of God?

Emusan:



.

malvisguy212:
read the op and read the coment,up till now,non of you guys has answer my qustion,how do you reconcile this word? Spirit of God,word of God and son of God?

udatso:

i have read the op and its really not worth replying to. different words and personality of certain people mean different things for both faiths(Islam and Christianity ). for example when you call jesus (pbuh), as a muslim i see a prophet and messenger of Allah but a christian on the other hand sees a God. how can you go to the quran and quote verses to prove that in islam only Allah deserves the title Lord and then you go to the bible to quote verses where david and elizabeth addresses jesus as lord and then conclude that with respect to the bible the quran proves or shows that jesus was worshipped as God. Are you insane? Give us evidence where the quran shows that they did. Atleast let there be some level of maturity in your lies if you cant stop it. The fact that you are trying to force your teachings into a different faith from yours is not only dubious but mischievous. sam shamoun who has earned himself a status of international liar always comes up with distorted and spurious claims and i thought by now you guys should have learnt that his nefarious acts should be totally ignored