Goshen360:


No, put it this way:

Melchi rained and threaten Abraham with curse of Malachi in order for Abraham to give pay tithe. Mechi promised Abraham open heaven in so much that there will not be room to contain it. All of these Melchi did "in the order of Jesus" or as if it was Jesus doing it to those he died to take away their curses and redeem, those he blessed in Him in His finished works.

Oh, I just remember now, God must receive His tithe with a representative on earth, no wonder these Pastors like you are "representative of Christ as High priest" and they are threatening with curse from God....Just the Melchi in the order of Christ did to Abraham.

hahaha.

the hypocrisy of the pro-tithe group is so glaring.

didnt know you had this sarcastic bit in you

Goshen360:


No, put it this way:

Melchi rained and threaten Abraham with curse of Malachi in order for Abraham to give pay tithe. Mechi promised Abraham open heaven in so much that there will not be room to contain it. All of these Melchi did "in the order of Jesus" or as if it was Jesus doing it to those he died to take away their curses and redeem, those he blessed in Him in His finished works.

Oh, I just remember now, God must receive His tithe with a representative on earth, no wonder these Pastors like you are "representative of Christ as High priest" and they are threatening with curse from God....Just the Melchi in the order of Christ did to Abraham.

The goal post was that only Levites can take tithes (with an hint on even the present day). I scored that goal post using Melchisedek as top striker. Stop the callous attempt to shift the goal post.

MarkMiwerds:
Hebrews does say that Jesus is after the order of Melchizedek. I am not blind to that. But is Jesus on the Earth today in person to receive tithes of the brethren? Of course not!

But notice also in Hebrews 7:5, that it is the sons of Levi who God says are to receive the tithes... Levites are to take God's holy tithes, not pastors who are not of the lineage and dscendancy of Levi.

It is not I who is displaying the blindness you speak of. You have three of your own fingers pointing back at you.

Is Jesus the Christian's High Priest? Are christians priests? If Melchisedek received tithe 'without commandment', what hinders others? Are we under commandment (the law).?
I trust you would answer these questions straight and plainly before shifting the goal.

wow. still tithing and tithing since 400 BC

1. Jesus is the a high Priest
2. All Christians are priests
3. Because Christians are not Melchizedek. When did you last walk on water? What about dying for our sins?

Image123:


Is Jesus the Christian's High Priest? Are christians priests? If Melchisedek received tithe 'without commandment', what hinders others? Are we under commandment (the law).?
I trust you would answer these questions straight and plainly before shifting the goal.

vooks:
1. Jesus is the a high Priest
2. All Christians are priests
3. Because Christians are not Melchizedek. When did you last walk on water? What about dying for our sins?

1 and 2 , i mark am correct. 3 is answer to what?
If Melchisedek received tithe 'without commandment', what hinders others?
Are we under commandment (the law).?

What hinders others is staring right at you; you are no Melchizedek. You don't do stuff simply because Melchizedek did!
Explain how you give Melchizedek your 'tithe of all' like Abraham

Image123:


1 and 2 , i mark am correct. 3 is answer to what?
If Melchisedek received tithe 'without commandment', what hinders others?
Are we under commandment (the law).?

What is hindering us from giving the same tithes that Mechizedek received? Oh, that's right... greedy pastors who don't want spoils of war. Pastors who stand to get richer by lies and deceitful manipulation of God's Word rather than waiting several months for a soldier returning from battle. Abram is never said to have tithed UNTIL he was returning from war. He did not tithe his own personal income, ...he tithed war spoils that belonged to someone else.

What hinders others from receiving the tithes? The Word of God. The fact that the pastor is not Melchizedek. The Word of God does not say pastors have a right to receive tithes. If it did, there would be no argument. But, it says the exact opposite. We are to give out of love, and our giving is to be out of our own choosing, not due to pharisaical judging by others.

Image123:


Is Jesus the Christian's High Priest? Are christians priests? If Melchisedek received tithe 'without commandment', what hinders others? Are we under commandment (the law).?
I trust you would answer these questions straight and plainly before shifting the goal.

And the tithe instituted by God (which should be what you should be looking at, not the type given to Melchizedek) tells you to give your tithe to whom?
The tithe of all that includes war plunder is now standard practice to be used today? Meaning we csn embezzle funds or take what belongs to others and give a tithe from that,abi?

You are just scoring own goals all over the place.

The Melchizedek tithe example cannot be used to justify your position anyway you look at it.

The letter kills but the Spirit gives life.
The letter, the written code(in our churches nowadays, they're more of "the unwritten code" ) says bring in the tithes and offerings or the canker worms and caterpillars will devour ...

The Spirit says "give".
God "gave" his Son ....
Jesus "gave" his life ...
In the footsteps of God and Christ, you should "give", not out of compulsion(as many make the tithes, offerings, etc to look) but with a cheerful heart.
If you have made up your mind to give your life, give it to Christ;
If you have made up your mind to give your time, give it to serve the Lord;
If your mind is made up to give your money, give it to the needy, the poor and all those who are doing the work of the Lord in various mission fields.; etc

I understand Jesus' response to the pharisees where he mentioned tithes as, "(If you wanted to keep the whole law and be justified by it), you should have done the latter(the greater matters of the law-righteousness, justice and mercy) without ignoring the former(tithing). In any case, Jesus made it clear that both the former(less important) and the latter(weightier or more important) were "MATTERS OF THE LAW". But we are not under law but under grace.

In simple terms, anyone demanding(demands have to do with obligations-law) tithes or offerings from a Christian who has been set free from the law is doing a great disservice to Christ.

StarBoard:

And the tithe instituted by God (which should be what you should be looking at, not the type given to Melchizedek) tells you to give your tithe to whom?
The tithe of all that includes war plunder is now standard practice to be used today? Meaning we csn embezzle funds or take what belongs to others and give a tithe from that,abi?

You are just scoring own goals all over the place.

The Melchizedek tithe example cannot be used to justify your position anyway you look at it.

You answered none of the questions, scoring zero. That's how i look at it.

Image123:

You answered none of the questions, scoring zero. That's how i look at it.

And youve been saying absolutely nothing on this mattet,just blowing hot air and wasting MB.
if you think Melchizedek tithe is a standard to follow based on your hollow assessment then there is no point responding to you.
it is your ilk who keep peddling false doctrine and bringing scorn to the faith with your vain and inane anslysis of issues that are clear.
Adios.

vooks:
What hinders others is staring right at you; you are no Melchizedek. You don't do stuff simply because Melchizedek did!
Explain how you give Melchizedek your 'tithe of all' like Abraham

You still managed not to answer the questions, how did that happen? Even Mark the original recipient has been very shy.
If Melchisedek received tithe 'without commandment', what hinders others?
Are we under commandment (the law).?

StarBoard:

And youve been saying absolutely nothing on this mattet,just blowing hot air and wasting MB.
if you think Melchizedek tithe is a standard to follow based on your hollow assessment then there is no point responding to you.
it is your ilk who keep peddling false doctrine and bringing scorn to the faith with your vain and inane anslysis of issues that are clear.
Adios.

Adios amugo.

If answering is reading your mind, am sorry am not psychic. I have answers your questions. Let me repeat them lest one of the things I accused you of recurr(ed)

Question: If Melchisedek received tithe 'without commandment', what hinders others?
Answer: They are not Deity nor are they High Priests so they are not entitled to 'without commandment' privilleges Melchizedek enjoyed

Image123:

You still managed not to answer the questions, how did that happen? Even Mark the original recipient has been very shy.
If Melchisedek received tithe 'without commandment', what hinders others?
Are we under commandment (the law).?

vooks:
If answering is reading your mind, am sorry am not psychic. I have answers your questions. Let me repeat them lest one of the things I accused you of recurr(ed)

Question: If Melchisedek received tithe 'without commandment', what hinders others?
Answer: They are not Deity nor are they High Priests so they are not entitled to 'without commandment' privilleges Melchizedek enjoyed

Are we under commandment (the law).?

Image123,

If you teaching Melchizedek example of tithing away from law tithe. The law tithe was commanded to be taken to a location. ..aka Storehouse which some erroneously interpreted as the church, insulting the body of Christ by calling us storehouse.

Question: What's Melchizedek location to take the tithe to? Don't tell us it's the same church because no church existed when Melchizedek received tithe and the place he received tithe wasn't a church neither.

Not we are not. So it beats me that trousers on women gives you fits

Image123:


Are we under commandment (the law).?

vooks:
Not we are not. So it beats me that trousers on women gives you fits

Ol boy, you get some dangerous upper cuts I have ever seen.

My broda, you can't beat them at Obtuse Game.
How do you ask a question, receive answer and then insist it has not been answered?

Image123 and his entire brains thinks that because Melchizedek collected a tithe 'without commandment', and we are not under the law, then collecting the tithe does not have to follow the Law. So if modern tithe collectors are not Levites, no biggie

The irony of it all is, if it is no longer obligatory to pay tithes to Levites since Melchizedek was no Levite yet he collected it from Abraham, why do we even settle at 10%? WHy can't we collect 10% and go throw it into the river since we are not under the Law? While at it we can also burn it. There is no Law governing our tithing anyway. Why should there be Law on the AMOUNT, 10%? And why should we collect it regularly?

Who makes all these laws for people not 'under commandment'?

pea-brained arguments

Goshen360:



Ol boy, you get some dangerous upper cuts I have ever seen.

The truth is that it is difficult to understand something when your livelihood depends on your not understanding it. That is the reason why this thread could go on for as long as you guys are willing to engage them, and they still will be no closer to understanding why christians are neither obligated nor required to pay tithe.

Goshen360:
Image123,

If you teaching Melchizedek example of tithing away from law tithe. The law tithe was commanded to be taken to a location. ..aka Storehouse which some erroneously interpreted as the church, insulting the body of Christ by calling us storehouse.

Question: What's Melchizedek location to take the tithe to? Don't tell us it's the same church because no church existed when Melchizedek received tithe and the place he received tithe wasn't a church neither.

i'm not interested in useless rigmarole and dribbling in circles. Stay on point and gain at least one thing for this once. The FOCUS where you entered the fray was on Mark saying that only Levites can take tithes. i replied that with the obvious Melchisedek taking tithes without being levite, and Jesus being of that order as High Priest. i'm not teaching, simply making a simple and open point so cancel the IFs and assumptions in your statement. Your next move is to ridiculously decide to go on an absurd logic with location. Before that, God's house is where the tithe went according to Malachi, and the church is God's house. Gosh, is the church God's house? Why the childish semantics just to oppose the tithe? i guess to you, Jesus has to be in the same location as Melchisedek for Him to be of the order.
Psa 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
Heb 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchizedek there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, [b]The Lord swore and will not repent, [/b]Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek)

"After the order of" simply means 'like' or 'in the similitude'. Melchisedek could collect the tithe without 'commandment', same way Jesus our High Priest can collect the tithe without 'commandment'. Actually He has been collecting it since forever as He is God. The High priest is the Head of Priests, which believers are. In other words, we are in the same order or likeness. We don't need "commandment".

vooks:
Not we are not. So it beats me that trousers on women gives you fits

At lastttttttt. Almost had to squeeze it out of you, the answers. So let's have a recap.
QUESTIONS.

---

1. Is Jesus the Christian's High Priest?
2. Are christians priests?
3. If Melchisedek received tithe 'without commandment', what hinders others?
4. Are we under commandment (the law).?
I trust you would answer these questions straight and plainly before shifting the goal.

---

Unfortunate that you couldn't keep to the trust by answering the questions first. So your answers are;

1. Jesus is the a high Priest
2. All Christians are priests
3. you are no Melchizedek. You don't do stuff simply because Melchizedek did!
Explain how you give Melchizedek your 'tithe of all' like Abraham. AND
They are not Deity nor are they High Priests so they are not entitled to 'without commandment' privilleges Melchizedek enjoyed.
4. Not we are not. So it beats me that trousers on women gives you fits wink.

Mark is of the opinion that "the sons of Levi are to receive the tithes... Levites are to take God's holy tithes, not pastors who are not of the lineage and dscendancy of Levi."
From what you seem to be saying in answer 4, we are not under the law. Therefore, Mark needs an update. The Levites were under the law, we are not.
On answer 3, you beat around the bush both grammatically and logically and spiritually. Believers are priests after the order of Melchisedek BECAUSE their High Priest(Jesus) is of that order.

Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchizedek, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

The priesthood has been changed, this should be no newsflash for any Bible student. There is made of necessity a change also of the law. We are no more under the law where tithes go to the levitical priesthood. As Jesus is, so are WE. We are His body, He is the Head. What we do to the church(the Body of Christ), we have done to Christ. i trust hope i do not need to show you the scriptures that say these things.

vooks:
My broda, you can't beat them at Obtuse Game.
How do you ask a question, receive answer and then insist it has not been answered?

Image123 and his entire brains thinks that because Melchizedek collected a tithe 'without commandment', and we are not under the law, then collecting the tithe does not have to follow the Law. So if modern tithe collectors are not Levites, no biggie

The irony of it all is, if it is no longer obligatory to pay tithes to Levites since Melchizedek was no Levite yet he collected it from Abraham, why do we even settle at 10%? WHy can't we collect 10% and go throw it into the river since we are not under the Law? While at it we can also burn it. There is no Law governing our tithing anyway. Why should there be Law on the AMOUNT, 10%? And why should we collect it regularly?

Who makes all these laws for people not 'under commandment'?

pea-brained arguments

You did not fully answer my questions until here 4:52pm, don't be mischievous. Now, while i might endure and tolerate your absurdities, this is my last warning to you on your rudeness and insults. You may need to go home and ask your superiors on how to address others in public. Apart from being a professing christian, courtesy and forum rules demand that you don't abuse, deliberately insult/provoke any Nairaland member. i don't engage people who have no manners. You can convey your points in a mannerly way. Grace, home training, discipline, maturity all help with that. BTW i'd rather wish your repentance/change, not apologies.

The tithes Melchizedek received were tithes of the spoils of war, not one's personal income.

Let's roll with your claim that Jesus can collect tithes after the order of Melchizedek.

Tell us, who has the authority to collect tithes on behalf of Jesus, since it is obvious that He is not here Himself to collect them?

Please provide Scripture that says God has appointed certain people in this New Testament era of Grace to collect tithes on His behalf. The only verse I can find that says any man can take tithes of the brethren says it is Levites that have that command.

Where is your verse that says pastors have that command or authority to take tithes?

Image123:


Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

[size=15pt]The priesthood has been changed,[/size] this should be no newsflash for any Bible student. [size=20pt]There is made of necessity a change also of the law. We are no more under the law where tithes go to the levitical priesthood.[/size] As Jesus is, so are WE. We are His body, He is the Head. What we do to the church(the Body of Christ), we have done to Christ. i trust hope i do not need to show you the scriptures that say these things.

... the scripture is starring at you in the face as you agreed:

Why is the law of 10% STILL REMAINS 10% if the priesthood had changed and the law must also change? I thought you would change the law of 10% (in the pre-law tithing) if you changed the priesthood from levites to Melchi....look at the scripture you quoted again.

You are the king of that Game.

Image123:


You did not fully answer my questions until here 4:52pm, don't be mischievous. Now, while i might endure and tolerate your absurdities, this is my last warning to you on your rudeness and insults. You may need to go home and ask your superiors on how to address others in public. Apart from being a professing christian, courtesy and forum rules demand that you don't abuse, deliberately insult/provoke any Nairaland member. i don't engage people who have no manners. You can convey your points in a mannerly way. Grace, home training, discipline, maturity all help with that. BTW i'd rather wish your repentance/change, not apologies.

Excellent.
Now, walk me through why anybody is entitled to collect tithes over the others in the body of Christ seeing ALL are priests. Can I collect your tithes? Can you collect mine?

Image123:


At lastttttttt. Almost had to squeeze it out of you, the answers. So let's have a recap.
QUESTIONS.

---

1. Is Jesus the Christian's High Priest?
2. Are christians priests?
3. If Melchisedek received tithe 'without commandment', what hinders others?
4. Are we under commandment (the law).?
I trust you would answer these questions straight and plainly before shifting the goal.

---

Unfortunate that you couldn't keep to the trust by answering the questions first. So your answers are;



Mark is of the opinion that "the sons of Levi are to receive the tithes... Levites are to take God's holy tithes, not pastors who are not of the lineage and dscendancy of Levi."
From what you seem to be saying in answer 4, we are not under the law. Therefore, Mark needs an update. The Levites were under the law, we are not.
On answer 3, you beat around the bush both grammatically and logically and spiritually. Believers are priests after the order of Melchisedek BECAUSE their High Priest(Jesus) is of that order.

Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchizedek, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

The priesthood has been changed, this should be no newsflash for any Bible student. There is made of necessity a change also of the law. We are no more under the law where tithes go to the levitical priesthood. As Jesus is, so are WE. We are His body, He is the Head. What we do to the church(the Body of Christ), we have done to Christ. i trust hope i do not need to show you the scriptures that say these things.

vooks:
Excellent.
Now, walk me through why anybody is entitled to collect tithes over the others in the body of Christ seeing ALL are priests. Can I collect your tithes? Can you collect mine?

I'm waiting for an answer...maybe it still has to be taken to the Melchi's storehouse.....confusion galore. Someone must be using "Melchi's example" in disguise to collect tithe according to the law

The answer might be, "Hebrews 7:8 says "Here, men that die receive tithes, but there He receives them."

OK, which men that die receive tithes? We all die. So which receive the tithes? The only clue as to who receives tithes is found in Hebrews 7:5, which says that the sons of Levi take the tithes.

Has to be talking about physical descendants of Levi, not Gentile pastors. There is not one Scripture that says one becomes a son of Levi upon taking a pastoral position. So, Scripture still refutes the claim that tithes are to go to Churches on Gentile soil.

Goshen360:


... the scripture is starring at you in the face as you agreed:

Why is the law of 10% STILL REMAINS 10% if the priesthood had changed and the law must also change? I thought you would change the law of 10% (in the pre-law tithing) if you changed the priesthood from levites to Melchi....look at the scripture you quoted again.

You are chasing shadows and losing focus yet again. What do you gain in dancing up and down? The tithe is not the law, isn't that what you antitithers say all the time? That our present day tithe is not the law's.